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The meditation for the bringing up of the kundalini up the center of the spinal column is actually a Tao/Dao/Ti Che meditation called "spinal breathing" and is actually not the kundalini at all. And you are right Bliss about the true kundalini stuff being very secret. To be honest it is considered to be for advanced students only and probably for a lot of good reasons, one of which is if not done properly one can come to harm. The true Kundalinis are brought up through the area that is in front of the spine along the path that one's spirit takes when they die and leave their body. If not done properly one can make their final exit somewhat prematurely. Advanced yogis like Yogananda when they wish to make their final exit just drop the grounding of the kundalini and leave out through that path. Students doing things wrong can accidently drop the grounding and do the same thing but not on purpose, especially when working with the male kundalini. Folks that leave their body and travel around use the same method, they just don't drop their grounding so that they are always still attached to their body and can return to it. Anyway Bliss I think that your approach to things is very valid and I also think/feel that the true kundalini stuff is witchdoctor stuff and that it is of Satan. The reason that I think/feel this way is because one can with this stuff become a god without God. To me the object is to walk with God, not to became a god. | ||||
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Hi all, I have been reading these posts and find them very interesting. The idea that the K and HS are different seems to make some sense. My teacher was adamant about one thing, that the true K first came down from above and then turned and rose. This agrees with the Qabalah. He as I was a christian Qabalist. The way I see it at this point, is that the Holy Spirit uses the K as a means to cleanse the body. John said that Jesus would come and baptise with the Holy Spirit and with Fire. John, of course, baptised with water. All three are aspects of one baptism. We can see this in the story of Noah's Ark. (Which is a symbol for baptism) They were on the water. The dove (Air) was let loose and returned with an olive branch in its mouth. Olives were used for their oil to light lamps. (fire) Mt 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. This process has three stages and the third seems to affect the body. Changing, and renewing the bottle (our coats of skins, plural)to be able to hold the new wine of the spirit without bursting. The juice of grapes, in the old days, was put into new skins and as it fermented (fire) it would stretch the bottles as it gave off gas during the process. A used bottle would not do for this process. It had already stretched out and was not flexible enough to go through this process again. This would apply to our bodies. And to some extent our minds. Being filled with the Spirit would continue a process begun with the water baptism and would lead to the fire. All one process. In Western Mystic schools the there is the Point meditation. Holding your consciousness above you head. This would equate to the Thousand petaled lotus and also to Jesus hanging on a cross above the place of the skull. This meditation is exactly what initiated the process in my teacher, Gopi Krishna and myself. It is difficult for me to separate the K with the HS in that I was Christian when it happened, so that is my perspective. I have recieved visions and such but mainly revelation from the bible. That, of course is Holy Spirit and goes along with the promises concerning the Comforter that Jesus promised to send. I believe that the death on the cross which we were told to follow him to may be the death of the self. Jesus of course had no ego while here on earth. But the death of the self for us may have been illustrated when he cried out "Why have you forsaken me," One other thing that hit me lately. The Point meditation was enhanced by the addition of reaching up as high as I could go on the day it opened for me. This was advised by my teacher as a specific meditation for Rising on the planes. This seems to fit with Jesus' words here. Joh 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. Just some thoughts, Bob | ||||
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When one is indwelt by God's presence through the Holy Spirit they do not need the kundalini. All the kundalini does is slow one down and sidetrack one's focus. The true Loving Divine starts in your heart, not in your groin. | ||||
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All, And yet, just think…………the least born in the kingdom of heaven is greater than Yogananda and Gopi Krishna! (That’s what whatsHISname said.) How advantaged we Christians are. Aiyee. Pop-pop p.s. This post is a comment based on having read the various posts of this thread and not a reply to the previous post of Tucker’s. | ||||
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No truer words were ever said. | ||||
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Aviela, From the other thread, you asked about this statement I made: The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Holy Trinity. K. is a spiritual energy. The Holy Spirit is UNCREATED. K. is created. Big difference right there, wouldn't you say? Can someone explain what is meant by K being created??? and HS being uncreated?? I don't understand what these mean.... Thank you. ---------------- The Christian faith believes in a Triune God-- the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit IS God. God is the Creator. He is uncreated , meaning nothing made God. He is Eternal. God brings everything into existence and sustains it. God made humans. We are called creatures. God, the Holy Spirit is the Creator. He created our bodies, minds, souls. Our blood and hormones are created, our brains are created, and kundalini is created. Scientist now know there is this strange energy in the universe called "dark matter," it is vast and mysterious and can only be measured indirectly. Still, dark matter is created by God. Same with kundalini; it's a created energy. It is not GOD. So to equate the Holy Spirit (the Creator God) with kundalini (a created thing like the hormones in our body) is erroneous. It is a false teaching. Furthermore, equating kundalini with the Holy Spirit is dangerous insofar as this false teaching may pull people away from worship of the true Creator God for the sake of various kundalini seductions. Yes, kundalini should be respected because it transforms our consciousness in profound ways, but so should testosterone in pubescent boys be respected because it leads to their physical maturation. Kundalini ascension no more makes one holy than does testosterone turn boys into sexually responsible men! Testosterone and kundalini and dark matter are all created energies, of various kinds. We wouldn't want to bow to any of them.  To bow to any created energy misses the mark of God's call to be in a loving relationship with Him, our Creator. God calls us to be His friend. Aviela, There is nothing more wonderful to study than the Christian God. If you want a great summary of teachings on the Holy Spirit, Phil has that here at SP. See the threads on the lower half of the General Discussion Forums screen. There is one called "Come Holy Spirit." I'd encourage you to take a look around.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shasha, | ||||
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St. Augustine (I believe) talks about the Holy Spirit as the love between the Father and the Son, in the life of the Trinity. Thinking of it in this way has been really helpful to me at times. | ||||
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Awesome post Shasha! And equating the kundalini with testosterone is right on. The kundalini is "sex" energy and testosterone is the hormone that creates sex energy in men and women (the adrenal glands also produce testosterone). Yes controlled "sex" energy is a very powerful creative force, but is is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is "Love" energy which is actually more powerful than "sex" energy. The Kundalini comes from the days when people worshiped "Sex" energy, not "Love" energy. And again, "Awesome post Shasha!" | ||||
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Oh and possibly this: Jesus said that until you be as a child you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. This could be construed to mean, back to a pre kundalini (sex energy) reality. There is no kundalini in children. | ||||
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So much depends on what people mean by K. E.g.,
Gopi Krishna taught something like this as well. I do agree that it's related to sexual energy, but I also think that sexual energy is not separate from our human consciousness. It's how we experience the same energy manifesting in the lower chakras via the reproductive organs. I think k is this very same energy of human consciousness, only oriented to fully awakening the 3rd eye and crown chakras. This necessarily brings about a change in the dynamics of energy flow in our body/mind, as everything is "recruited" in the service of this "higher consciousness" project. | |||
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If Gopi Krishna claims it is real, then who am I to argue with Gopi Khrisna. He is a master of renown and I am just loopy. I will say this though: When the focus of God's presence through Jesus Christ is on and in the heart center, all other energy centers below, in, and above the body are placed automatically into a state of automated balance. And at that point, when this automated balance is achieved, the "waters of life" flow from your belly and the true "higher consciousness project" begins. Until then you are just building the tower of Babylon. If your goal is to become one with God/yoked to God, then that goal can not be achieved without the free gift of Jesus' sacrifice and God's presence focused in your heart center. If your goal is to become "self realized" and know that you are a god, then Gopi Krishna is correct. Oh and this, in Hindu yoga your master/guru is your Jesus and the salvation of Jesus Christ is not needed. | ||||
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Thank you for posting this Phil: This is more the understanding I've been coming from. I've also understood that the energy that is experienced is prana not the actual kundalini. That Kundalini is a force for good, for balance. For the creation of human beings with higher morals, higher creativity ect. Gopi Krishna was the first author I read about Kundalini. He did caution that if one's nervous system was injured in some way that this could distort the whole process. From the stories I have heard from some on this list I would say they have been grossly mislead by some teachers. And for those that did not seek Kundalini & experienced it as part of their Christian path then it seems to me that it was God's will that it occurred.
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Good post above, Tucker. Thanks. And good to see you here again, Mary Sue. I don't think Gopi Krishna had the Christic perspective Tucker shared above. Without Christ, dealing with K could be like riding a wild bull, even when one lives a moral and balanced life. | |||
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I admit that I am a little heavy handed when it comes to Hindu yogi stuff, like Jesus said, when you have two masters you end up hating one and loving the other. The yogi folks for years told me that I have not gone far enough because if you go far enough you become God. Who knows, maybe I haven't gone far enough, but I don't want to be God, I just want to walk with God and be a part of His divine family. And in the end this whole conflict between the Hindu yogi path and the Christian path probably does not matter because Jesus said that His sheep will know their shepherd. A lot of Christians go out and explore yogi stuff and Buddhist stuff and return to Christianity a little bit different, but very glad that they are a Christian and they become testimonials to Jesus. | ||||
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No conflict there in the end, going inwards (the introspective Eastern way) or going outwards (the mainstream extrovert Christian way)arrives at the same point. You will meet someone coming the other way and (to paraphrase Ramana)may call Them by any name. | ||||
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ShalomPlace.com Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Kundalini Issues and Spiritual Emergencies Kundalini and the Holy Spirit
Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Kundalini Issues and Spiritual Emergencies Kundalini and the Holy Spirit