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I am uncertain as well, Phil. For me, the K experience began with the Holy Spirit, so it was several years before I understood that they were really separate (which is, of course, just an opinion). There is a lightness to the Holy Spirit that K just does not have. In fact, i would tend to say that K, to me, simply feels like a really powerful form of Prana/Qi. And the symptoms associated with K, whatever they are, may just be caused by the effect of cleansing K has on our bodies. So I would tend to agree that K is just about a higher level of awareness and spirituality, whereas the Holy Spirit is about, well, holiness. So it would follow that you can have one without the other. But i would tend to think that the holy spirit is orchestrating everything, regardless. | ||||
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Yes, that's pretty much how I understand my own experience. The great, mysterious question is why this intensification of prana/bio-electricity? As it seems to have an orientation to higher consciousness, it's activation must have something to do with the same -- hence, the notion of k as an "evolutionary energy." Of course, the more one grows in consciousness, the greater the capacity for God as well. That's where the Holy Spirit comes in, I believe. | |||
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All, The following extraction from the St. Teresa’s Interior Castle bears on body sensations. I think it has some insight regarding what might be what herein (at SP) we describe as kundalini. In SJOC’s terms these would be apprehensions that are felt. I didn’t see this text mentioned in Phil’s book on K. So I thought I’d post it here for whatever use readers might find of it. IC IV. 2.1 &.2 -- “.. I have heard some persons say they experience a tightening in the chest and even external bodily movements that they cannot restrain. The force of these passions can cause nosebleeds and other things just as painful. I don’t know how to explain anything about these experiences because I haven’t had any. But they must nonetheless be consoling, for, as I’m saying, the whole experience ends in a desire to please God. And enjoy His Majesty’s company. The experiences that I call spiritual delight in God, that I termed elsewhere the prayer of quiet, are of a very different kind, as those of you who by the mercy of God have experienced them will know.” I would take from the above the following: 1. These body sensations may well be kundalini. 2. Folk in the 1500s had similar experiences that we today have. 3. St. Teresa was aware of folks having said sensations. 4. She thought it significant enough to address it in her writing of the Interior Castle. 5. They were not those of her mystical experience, which she considered to be very different. 6. She felt they were nonetheless valid in that their fruit ( in those with whom she was acquainted anyway) ended in a desire to please God and enjoy His Majesty’s company. {not delight in their own enlightenment -- a difference distinction we need to be aware of, I think}. STA addresses body sensations she terms spiritual delights (though these do not seem to have any chakra / kundalini associations ) in IC VI. 4.13 (rapture), IC VI 5.1 (flight of the spirit), and others elsewhere which I haven’t included because they are not chakra-relevant, per se. Pop-pop | ||||
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That's good analysis, pop. I've heard and read so many times through the years that STA was giving testimony of some kind of Christianized K process, but have always had my doubts. Certainly, she knew the difference between mystical graces and what they called gratia gratis datae -- concomitant experiences. It does seem that she herself had a number of physical symptoms around the 5th and 6th mansions that could be k related -- pressure and buzzing in her head, inner sounds and lights. I'd have to go back and check it out as I don't recall exactly where she talked about that. | |||
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Isn't one of the passages? Can it be a kundalini symptom? I read it was traditionally explained away as a kind of organic brain condition by some, and some psychoanalysts explained it as neurotic symptoms (somatization). But we can look at it from k point of view. (Interior Castle, Mansion 4, 10-11) "Whilst writing this I am thinking of the loud noise in my head which I mentioned in the Introduction, and which has made it almost impossible to obey the command given me to write this. It sounds as if there were a number of rushing waterfalls within my brain, while in other parts, drowned by the sound of the waters, are the voices of birds singing and whistling. This tumult is not in my ears, but in the upper part of my head, where, they say, is placed the superior part of the soul. I have long thought that this must be so because the flight of the spirit seems to take place from this part with great velocity. Please God I may recollect to explain the cause when writing of the latter mansions, this not being the proper place for it. It may be that God has sent this suffering in my head to help me to understand the matter, for all this tumult in my brain does not interfere with my prayer, nor with my speaking to you, but the great calm and love and desires in my soul remain undisturbed and my mind is clear. How, then, can the superior part of the soul remain undisturbed if it resides in the upper part of the brain? I cannot account for it, but am sure that I am speaking the truth. This noise disturbs my prayer when unaccompanied with ecstasy, but when it is ecstatic I do not feel any pain, however great. I should suffer keenly were I forced to cease praying on account of these infirmities." | ||||
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Well, I guess that I have to ask this, "Which Kundalini are you talking about?" There are two of them, the male kundalini and the female kundalini. The male kundalini is usually brought up from the groin area, as a huge golden snake, through the "death zone" to the center of the brain and then forward into the eye of Ra/eye of the sun. At that point one becomes immortal or has at least a very extended life span and there are some powers and abilities that one also acquires. The problem with the male kundalini is that it does not have any heart, it is just pure power and the male kundalini folk were the snakes that St.Patric ran out of Ireland. Raising the male kundalini use to be a stand alone tradition (Druids and Egyptians) but it is now a part of the Raja and Kriya Yoga traditions. In my opinion as a yogi that has experienced the raising of the male and female kundalini, that the kundalini is not Christian and is not compatible with the Holy Spirit. The center pillar though when the four corner pillars are set, based on my experience, is compatible with the Holy spirit. love, tuck | ||||
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Oh and this, most of what folks are calling "the kundalini" is ungrounded sex energy, which can and usually does, cause one to become unstable. If one is going to play with sex energy (it does give one powers and abilities), then one really needs to keep it grounded. And just for the record, all true witchcraft is based on the control and manipulation of sex energy. love, tuck | ||||
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Tuck, I've never heard of male and female kundalini. Could you be meaning Yin and Yang? Not the same thing, to my understanding. And, yes, K has a libidinal dimension, but I don't know that what "most folks are calling 'kundalini'" is that. It does seem that people mean all kinds of things by K, even K process. My understanding is that it is the embodied, and, hence, energetic aspect of human spiritual consciousness and so it is more of the soul than of the Holy Spirit. There: that's about as succinctly as I can say it.  | |||
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I was a bit surprised when I found out that there was a male kundalini also. It is the eighth initiation in Kriya Yoga. A friend of my that is a Kriya Yoga guru was a bit upset when I went from the first initiation to the eighth and skipped every thing in the middle. I am a Christian yogi mystic (about 38 years now) and I had to see what that sucker was all about. Most everything about yogi stuff is just waking up the things that our brains are capable of doing. From there it is just what system you want to use. The system that I followed the closest was Siddha Yoga and what is funny is that my yogi teacher is lord Shiva. He and Yogananda's Babaji showed up in my kitchen one morning about nine years ago, I didn't think that they even existed, but they do. Oh and by the way there is not any male kundalini in Siddha Yoga so it is not something that a person needs to study advanced yogi stuff. love, tuck | ||||
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Tuck, what do you mean when you say that Shiva and Babji showed up in your kitchen? As in a vision, or sense of their presence? I agree that most yoga disciplines are about waking up our brain/spiritual consciousness. Many Christians think there's also a danger of opening to evil spirits, but my sense is that this is primarily in those traditions that emphasize shaktipat energy transmission dynamics like that of Siddha Yoga as you can't help becoming somewhat "infected" by the energy of the yogi, who is, at best, an impure vessel. You have any thoughts on that? | |||
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Hi Tuck, Thanks for your introductory post and comments. You make a number of unusual statements, not that I'm saying you're wrong, just stuff I've not heard before. What do you mean by the "center pillar," and "kundalini is not Christian"? And are you saying that Shiva is your teacher? Isn't THAT incompatible with being Christian? I had a most disastrous encounter with Siddha Yoga. And frankly, I'm one of those people who've experienced it as demonic thru it's connection with goddess/kali worship. I don't trust Shiva or any of his/her followers as I do believe they're connected to the anti-Christ, as all pagan gods whom Christians are forbidden to worship or associate with. | ||||
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Not being schooled in Eastern thought, I was perplexed on Tucks thoughts... Glad that the experts have weighed in... I am open to learning so I am in agreement with Shasha "not saying you are wrong" just confusing to this Jesus freak! | ||||
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Phil I have met a lot of demons, some were living people and some were not. I just went to God about it and He fixed things and I just continued on my way. love, tuck | ||||
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Judging by your intro post, it sounds like you do want to relate to Christians, and we're glad to have you join "our" message board. I've found Shalom Place a wonderful little church of people who value integrity, compassion, and non-defensive discussions about various spiritual issues. At the same time, it takes a good deal of perseverance to engage in discussions about supernatural and mystical experiences. I think of SP as the gift of the Body of Christ that can help with guidance and discernment, and especially love and support. And for those who are largely isolated by virtue of their unusual experiences, Shalom Place is a good place to get grounded in reality. And we need help with what is reality; we need a good protection from deception and delusion, which is a common pitfall with folks like us.  So, if you don't mind, I'm still stuck on your story that "lord Shiva" is your yogi teacher, your friend, a loving and immortal being, and that he and Babaji showed up in your kitchen one morning...Phil asked you this question too. Are you aware of how strange that sounds to people, even if you're not Christian? God's peace to you and your family + dog, Shasha | ||||
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ShalomPlace.com Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Kundalini Issues and Spiritual Emergencies Kundalini and the Holy Spirit
Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Kundalini Issues and Spiritual Emergencies Kundalini and the Holy Spirit