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How to explain this? Humm? Shiva was physically there, I touched him. Babaji was a presence and he and I did not get along. And just for the record that was the only time in my life that I have ever had anything like that happen to me. I guess it was a case of ask and you shall receive. I wanted to know about what the Hindu yogi stuff was all about, so the king of yogis showed up to visit me and from there to teach me what it is all about. And yes I am aware of how strange this sounds to people who are not Hindu. What Phil said was that I was too Christian to be a "New Age" person. And over the years every time I think about what he said, it makes me feel happy and I will love him forever for what he said to me. And while I am being strange, the presence of the Holy Spirit cancels the Kundalini and the kundalini ceases to exist. So no matter what level one raises the Kundalini to, it will cease to exist in the presence of the Holy Spirit. love, tuck | ||||
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Tucker, I have never heard this before, can you explain this for me? | |||
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That's nice to hear, Tuck. Thank you. Can't say I recall that conversation, but it's heartening to hear that your short time here years ago made such a difference in your life. Re. K and the HS being incompatible, that's not my experience at all. Of course, I've come to wonder through the years just what people are calling "kundalini." All sorts of energy phenomena seem to come under this label. And then there's the issue of the "presence of the Holy Spirit." The Spirit is always present to us, but certainly operates in distinct ways, at times. E.g., the experience of glossalalia, which is considered a prayer gift of the Spirit. In my own experience of this, it seems the k process is both intensified and set right, simultaneously. It's been that way for almost three decades now, so I've had plenty of time to pay attention to what's happening. I guess your experience of the Spirit is different, but I wonder why that is? Is the K process something that you sought before Christ and His Spirit? If so, then maybe, for you, it might be a movement "backwards," or into your old pathway. Could that be what's going on? | |||
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Hi, Tuck, you're saying that Shiva is an immortal person. What you do you mean by that? As you know, in Christian tradition, every rational being is a person, human or spirit, and every person is immortal in the sense that an intellect isn't destructible. But, although I could call angels and demons immortal persons, I wouldn't call any human being an immortal person, because we all have to die. I imagine calling Jesus or Virgin Mary immortal persons, because they are already in their resurrected, glorified state, body and spirit living together. But what about Shiva? He seems to be a benevolent spirit - is he an angel (then why the Hindu name?), or a spirit of dead human? In any case, I agree with Shasha, that people can be confused reading you story, I was. I'm just trying to understand your experience within Christian framework. Can you help me?  | ||||
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Hi mt and Clare, it is nice to meet you both! Humm, where to start? Originally, if one goes back to the ancient days, yoga was different systems used to train shaman and witchdoctor types. Some where along the line someone introduced the concept that things could be carried to the next step and one become "yoked to God". So the first part of all yoga traditions (years of it) is shaman/witchdoctor training. Once one has gone through that then one is ready to become "yoked" to God the Supreme. Brahma is God the creator, Brahman is the spirit of God the creator and they are both just aspects of God the Supreme (as are all things of course). Krishna is God the Supreme that came to earth in physical form. A lot of yogis and other people claim that Jesus was a yogi and that because Christianity has lost the true message of Jesus that folks should study under a yoga guru to truly have an understanding and relationship with God. I disagree with that, Jesus was not a yogi, He was the Son of God. And His message had absolutely nothing to do with shaman and witchcraft stuff. Once one understands what the Hindu yogi folks (Krishna is something different) are teaching folks, the message of Jesus actually puts all yoga traditions out of business. And, with the exception of Krishna, all of Hinduism also ceases to exist and become obsolete. The above is what I am attempting to say, the rest can be taken as a grain of salt and doesn't really matter. I was a yogi, but I am not a yogi anymore. I am just a Christian mystic. Oh and this, how Christianity is going to handle Krishna, I have no idea. Those folks are players and technically not yogis. And how Christianity is going to handle the Dao/Taoism folks, I also have no idea (our minds can create "che" and do some interesting things with it ). I studied their stuff also as a part of my yoga science training and they are not yogis either.love, tuck | ||||
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tuck, thanks for your reply. It's seems to me that Christianity already handled the other traditions, although it may not be widely recognized. Of course, we still try to understand the meaning of various spiritual experiences, and it's not always possible. Philosophically, I think that the highest experience of God in this life is mystical contemplation which isn't actually knowledge in the strict sense - this is knowledge through love, the intimate presence of God which is in darkness, so we don't "see God", we felt we're loved by Him. If such experiences occur in other religions, like in bhakti Krishna religion, then they must come from gratuitous grace of God. But we should still bear in mind that the understanding of this loving in darkness can be totally erroneous, as is often in mythological Hindu religion. When it comes to impersonal experiences of Asia - advaita, daoism, buddhism etc. - it's probably the experience of the "esse of the soul", as Maritain wrote, the unknowable, most intimate energy of existing, which is so powerful that many people just end there, reposing in this dark not-knowing, which is some experience of God through unknowable 'esse' ("to be"), but not of personal God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, for sure. This experience makes you feel and "know" that everything is a manifestation of infinite energy of existence which in itself is "no-thing" and cannot be grasp, save for it's forms and manifestations. Since you can't distinguish between your own "to be" and the "to be" of the world and of God, you can come to the conclusion "I am God" or "everything is God", which is quite common nowadays in "spiritual" circles. Apart from those powerful spiritual experiences,what is really important is to be in grace, because this is the closes contact with God we can have on this earth. The meaning of life is to love God and others, not to have experiences and mystical knowledge. So there are many people who are very closely united to God,although they are not mystics. For me it's important to remember that all my "experiences" are nothing in comparison to simple faith and love. If they bring me closer to God, that's a reason to praise Him for them. But there are certain dangers. For me the greatest dangers are 1) taking my experience as a sure evidence of some truth - subjectivity in spirituality; 2) mistaking experiences for real closeness to God which can't be felt or known except for special revelation. I guess, my response is more cold, theological/philosophical, than your sharing, so maybe a bit inadequate. I hope you didn't feel that way. For me it's an occasion to think once again about the way I can explain to myself variety of my experience and remind me of the Truth I try to serve. | ||||
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you are an advanced mystic mt! And your conclusions fit my conclusions. I understand what you said and I think that you have stated it perfectly. One does reaches a point where they are not even a mystic anymore, because being a mystic is a seeking reality and how does one seek what has already been found. My problem is that I spent my entire life seeking something that I already had. So the question now becomes, "What am I going to do with the rest of my life, because seeking was my life."I don't know, I guess I will just wait to see what God comes up with should that be His will. love, tuck | ||||
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tuck, when you're saying "i've been seeking for I've already found", I assume you mean the natural light of universal being. It's indeed something "obvious", already there, so it's normal to feel there was no point in looking for something that surrounds us intimately. But probably we could also add that as Christians we are seeking intensely, for what is beyond our reach - supernatural knowledge of God. One of the Psalms calls us "those who seek the face of God of Jacob". And this isn't "already there". God is already there, but hidden to us in his infinite glory. Thanks to his grace, we can cleave to him in love, but it's still loving someone hidden, revealed only via faith's mysteries. We're sure he's there, loving us, caring for us and forgiving us our sins, but - as St. Thomas Aquinas says - "we cannot know what God is". In a way, we're already "in the heavens in Christ", as St. Paul says in the Ephesians, but nevertheless, we're intensely looking for him everyday, united in love, but in darkness in terms of his divine nature which is something that "the eye didn't see, the ear didn't hear etc.". So we're seeking his face, but only in death we'll see him face to face, not "in the mirror, vaguely" (Corinthians 13), but we'll know him as he knows us, because we'll be like him (1 letter of John). But, because Christ is our Way, we are both on the way, and "already in Christ". But certainly it's not a certain knowledge of who God is. Would you agree with these distinctions of "seeking"? | ||||
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That's all very well said, Mt. Thanks. | |||
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Yes mt I would agree. Eventually one reaches a point where they just walk with God and the less that one attempts to understand the more one understands. The action of needing to know gets in the way of knowing. I think that you and I are on the same page here and that we are just using different words. love you, tuck | ||||
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Hi aviela and welcome to the message board. Based on my experience with things your questions and speculations are very valid. What most folks do not understand is that there are two kundalinis. The female kundalini and the male kundalini. Both sides of the brain have their own kundalini. In Raja and Kriya Yoga one of the advanced initiations (8th in Kriya Yoga) is the raising of the male kundalini, the golden snake. In ancient Egypt the female kundalini was symbolized as a bird and the male kundalini as a snake and the goal was to raise both of them intertwined into the eye of Ra (the area in front of one's forehead). The result of doing this was physical immortality. Based on my experience with raising both kundalinis and my experience with being indwelt by the presence of God's Holy Spirit, the kundalinis and the Holy Spirit are not the same thing and it is my feeling that the yoga folks are attempting to give the concept of kundalini validity with Christians by associating it with the Holy Spirit. And also just for the record, what is being called the kundalini and the divine kundalini is only the female kundalini (the waking up of the female side of one's brain). | ||||
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Aviela, the male side of the brain is mechanically oriented, the female side of the brain is all things not mechanically oriented . Dreams where things are solid and make sense are the male side of the mind. Dreams where things do not have a solid quality to them and do not make much sense (you have to sit and contemplate what they mean) are the female side of the brain. My guess would be that what you are experiencing is the spontaneous awaking of the female kundalini because waking the male kundalini gives one the feeling of pure raw power in what ever chakra that you bring it into. In an electrical sense the female kundalini is the voltage (usually high fluffy voltage) and the male kundalini is the amperage (mass). The two together in proper balance and you have what is normally considered a lightening bolt, a lot of voltage and a lot of amperage, so to speak.About physical immortality, don't know . I am doing the meditations for it and I understand why they work, but I am only sixty-two years old. There is also the question about whether or not one is experiencing true physical immortality or just an extended lifespan. In true physical immortality one develops the ability to leave and take their body with them, otherwise it is just an extended lifespan. I am of the opinion though that some of the early Egyptians did achieve at least extended lifespans of 1000 years or more because I understand the theory behind how it is done even though I am not or have any proof of that it can be done. So when it comes to physical immortality what I am saying should be considered a curiosity and not a fact. | ||||
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Tuck and aviela, the Caduceus shows two snakes winding around a staff. It's not been associated with K symbology, to my knowledge, but it is curious that there are two snakes. Tuck, I've not read much about male and female kundalini; would that be akin to intensified flows of yin and yang energy? Also, the autonomic nervous system has sympathetic and parasympathetic pathways -- similar, again to yin and yang, in many respects. It's generally held that k flowing through the side channels is difficult to integrate, and that things go better when the energy flows through the central channel, which corresponds to the central nervous system and the staff of the caduceus. Just a few associations I'm making with some of what you're talking about. Re. physical immortality . . . I've certainly heard of the pursuit of this and some anecdotal accounts of partial success, but nothing worth banking on. The resurrection of the body to be effected by Christ offers a must more glorious option, imo. | |||
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As far as I know you are right on Phil . I also find it curious that the Caduceus shows two snakes winding around the staff. Based on my experience with things the yin and yang represent the interplay between opposites and that everything in creation is the result of this interplay between opposites (1; 1+1=2{yin and yang}; 2+1=3{3 is creation}. No matter where one looks everything is an interplay between opposites; this interplay creates movement and Creation is the the result of this movement. The yin and the yang can be found in everything that is Creation no matter where one looks. Based on my experience (so far ) with the female kundalini, it in it's maximum developed potential is an unstoppable force; and with the male kundalini that it in it's maximum developed potential is an immovable object. And that the result of the two kundalinis playing nicely together is Creation. Because the female side of the brain controls the female kundalini and the male side of the brain controls the male kundalini it is imperative that the female side of the brain and the male side of the brain get along with each other. If they do not get along with each other then the yin and yang of things get out of balance. What is funny is that most conflict between the female side of the brain and the male side of the brain is caused by one's personality programming and straightening out a personality programing problem is a difficult if not impossible task.Somewhere in the Bible Jesus said, "Those that follow Me will not die until I return." Upon saying that Jesus was accused of being a demon because everybody dies. His response was, "I can not be a demon because a house divided against itself can not stand." What is interesting Phil is that the possibility of at least extended lifespans is mentioned in Yoga tradition, Christian tradition, and legend. Personally I agree with you, but at the same time with Divine intervention who knows what is possible? | ||||
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ShalomPlace.com Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Kundalini Issues and Spiritual Emergencies Kundalini and the Holy Spirit
Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Kundalini Issues and Spiritual Emergencies Kundalini and the Holy Spirit