I understand Tucker, thanks

quote:

Tucker

The thing to keep in mind Mary Sue is that only God can teach you about God. No human or spirit can. Humans and spirits can lead you to God, but from there it is just you and God. Because only God can teach you about God. And when you and God are out exploring things together, you are by definition a mystic.[/QUOTE]

Tucker posted "Oh and possibly this: Jesus said that until you be as a child you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. This could be construed to mean, back to a pre kundalini (sex energy) reality. There is no kundalini in children."

Originally posted by Phil:
Tucker, have you found any way to basically turn off that more coarse flow of energy emanating from the lower chakras? I haven't, but, then, I'm not by any means an adept at this. It does seem to resolve somewhat in the heart center, or even better in third eye. But it seems it's always "there."


Perhaps I can contribute to this a little. Although this may be more appropriate on the Kundalini research thread.

In the peace of God there is a change in my sexuality. The usual pathway into my brain
& body was altered so that potentially addictive
chemicals no longer reach the brain.

quote:

Originally posted by Mary Sue:
Tucker posted "Oh and possibly this: Jesus said that until you be as a child you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. This could be construed to mean, back to a pre kundalini (sex energy) reality. There is no kundalini in children."

Originally posted by Phil:
Tucker, have you found any way to basically turn off that more coarse flow of energy emanating from the lower chakras? I haven't, but, then, I'm not by any means an adept at this. It does seem to resolve somewhat in the heart center, or even better in third eye. But it seems it's always "there."


Perhaps I can contribute to this a little. Although this may be more appropriate on the Kundalini research thread.

In the peace of God there is a change in my sexuality. The usual pathway into my brain
& body was altered so that potentially addictive
chemicals no longer reach the brain.

yes, based on my experience, over time that does happen. One becomes more loving child like and God becomes more a loving child playmate like. Perfection becomes a solid connection to the Source that is being explored with God as a loving playmate.

quote:

Originally posted by aviela:

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
To be honest with you Aviela, you can take the kundalini energy up into the heart center and you can use the kundalini to activate all chakras above the sex chakra. In traditional kundalini yoga you bring energy up consciously from the body chakra and the sex chakra at the same time, thus consciously activating all chakras inside of the body and from there the chakras above the head. When you use the heart chakra as the foundation chakra (starting point) you then activate all chakras above the heart chakra using the energy generated from the heart chakra. The chakras below the heart chakra are activated automatically without conscious effort. And when you use the heart enter as the foundation chakra then a situation develops where what Jesus called "the waters of life" flow from your belly. This happens because the flow of energies from the lower chakras are not brought up into the upper (heart and above) chakras. The Holy Spirit is only activated as a gift when the heart chakra is the foundation chakra and it's energy is combined with the presence of God under the salvation of Jesus. In Christians that love God and Jesus this happens automatically and the conscious mind does not need to be involved.

Folks that promote the taking of the kundalini out through the pineal gland are only teaching half of the picture. The other half of the picture is the pituitary gland. When one looks at creation they have the ability to see creation through two lenses, one lens is the pineal gland and the other lens is the pituitary gland. When one is looking through both lenses they are observing creation in stereo. True 3D so to speak.

Wow...getting clearer on this. thank you.
So the energy is different depending on which chakra it originates from as well as due to any blockages, etc.?? So it seems that one could be living their life from any number of the chakras or may be dominated by only one of them.
Where does one learn of all these details....it doesn't seem to be thoroughly explained anywhere.
Thanks for your time in answering all these questions.

Yes! And most folks live their lives from the focus of the body chakra only .

Where does one learn this stuff? Aviela, all I can say is where I learned it, I learned it from fifty seven years of hanging out with the Holy Spirit as a mystic, with the last ten years of it also being good friends with Shiva the king of yogis. I don't think that one needs Shiva to learn this stuff. Other than being a good friend, Shiva's part has been to help me understand things from the Hindu yogi stand point so that as a Christian I could talk to them.

Tucker, the way you speak about Shiva it appears that he has come under the domain and will of Christ.

How was the "god" of Hinduism converted to Christ. And what are your thoughts on universal salvation - will everybody eventually bow their knee in submission to Christ Jesus.

quote:

Originally posted by Jacques:
Tucker, the way you speak about Shiva it appears that he has come under the domain and will of Christ.

How was the "god" of Hinduism converted to Christ. And what are your thoughts on universal salvation - will everybody eventually bow their knee in submission to Christ Jesus.

Jacques, anyone that is an advanced student of true yoga (union with God) science knows that true union with God can not be "completed" without coming under the sacrifice and salvation of Jesus Christ. About universal salvation: There are those that are written in the book of life and there are those that are not written in the book of life. Who is written in the book of life and who is not written in the book of life is not for us to judge.

Shiva is a part of Father God's team just as a lot of other people are. Because Shiva is a very advanced yogi he has abilities, because of these abilities he has been and is considered a god by a lot of folks and has been for a very long time. Yes anybody can say anything, but in the end the proof will be in the pudding and yes at this point in time, the pudding is still in the oven.

Aviela, there is only one Holy Spirit and It is not from this world or from what is considered Creation. The Holy Spirit is the energy side of Father God's mind. Because we are created in God's image we have an energy side to our mind also, this energy side is our spirit. When the goal is to being truly "in union with God", then one's spirit and God's Spirit must be intermingled as one spirit. This can only be done if one comes under the sacrifice and salvation of Jesus Christ, because one can not be completely washed clean of their sins without the gift that is Jesus and His sacrifice. One can not be truly in the presence of God until they are totally sin free, because sin is what separates use from God. With Jesus it is now possible for everybody to step into the presence of God, because they are sin free. From there it is just a matter of whether they are rocky ground, shallow ground, or fertile ground. All Christians start out in the presence of God, where they go from there depends on what is in their heart, their hearts desire if you wish. Jesus said , "Seek the Father and Heaven first and all of these things shall be given unto you."

Everybody else, but those that come under the sacrifice of Jesus, have to balance their own karma to become pure enough to stand in the presence of God. With Jesus the whole thing is a gift.

If one truly desires "union with God", Jesus makes all other approaches to this union obsolete. And what is funny is that a lot of Christians have absolutely no idea how priceless the sacrifice of Jesus really is.

Hi all,
I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Tucker has put here.
One thing is that my path is different than most based upon the bible, personal experience and allegory. Also Qabalah the "Yoga of the West" as some term it.
That a person can reach higher levels of Spiritual experience without the awareness of a Saviour, I think is stated plainly in this verse.

Mt 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mt 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
That is the answer. The person in question practiced Silence as a means to enter the wedding feast. But had not put on Christ.

Another thing being discussed is the heart being the Foundation or fuel that brings us into higher focus and energizes the higher centers.
David was a man after God's own heart. David had an awareness of Grace. There are two geneologies listed for Jesus in Scripture. One begins at Adam and one at Abraham. The one beginning at Abraham to David to the captivity in Babylon (confusion) to Christ is our growth in awareness/consciousness.
David symbolises an awareness that we have to come to. Remember he is the Heart center.

Ps 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Ps 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

This is the awareness of Grace. Our sin is covered, our iniquity is not imputed to us.
Also, the phrase "in whose spirit there is no guile" is usede by Jesus when he first meets Nathanael and promised him the same Spiritual experience that Jacob experienced. Seeing "Angels ascending and descending upon the son of man."
This experience was fulfilled, in my opinion, at Pentecost.

Without the awareness of Grace or "Key of David", we are unaware of the importance of what happened at the cross and unable to, as Paul said,
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

To know that God first loved us is to love God. This is what keeps the Heart center open and functioning.
As Tucker said it is almost an automatic thing.

Ge 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Ge 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

Onan refused to raise seed to his brother. God was wroth with him.
But Judah ended up raising that seed under cover as it were.
Judah is Praise.
It is by Praise, Judah that the seed (Sexual energy) is raised up. This is fueled by the heart center.
Grace means gift, Nathanael means gift of God. David is aware of this gift as his great sins were not held against him. Judah offers the acceptable sacrifice of Praise and thanksgiving in "response to" what first came down from above.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Our Saviour first came down from above and then rose.
Same with the energies within us.

Bob

quote:

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Tucker has put here.

Same here, Bob, and I thank you for your contributions as well, and your witness to Christ. I think you present some interesting reflections on the mystical meaning of the scriptures.

- - -

Tucker, you still have us "going" with your references to a friendship with an ancient (immortal?) yogi named Shiva who seems to be something of a Christian. There are lots of Hindus who'd be sorely disappointed if they found out about that, as they're quite sure he's the "real deal," and worship him as such. I'd like to invite you to start a new thread and tell us more of your story in the Transformative Experiences forum. You do drop bits and pieces here and there, but a topic there would enable forum members to interact with you about different aspects of your journey. I'm not meaning to chase you off this thread, where you've made some helpful contributions, just to encourage you to another kind of discussion of a more personal level, if you'd like, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob May:
Hi all,
I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Tucker has put here.
One thing is that my path is different than most based upon the bible, personal experience and allegory. Also Qabalah the "Yoga of the West" as some term it.
That a person can reach higher levels of Spiritual experience without the awareness of a Saviour, I think is stated plainly in this verse.

Mt 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mt 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
That is the answer. The person in question practiced Silence as a means to enter the wedding feast. But had not put on Christ.

Another thing being discussed is the heart being the Foundation or fuel that brings us into higher focus and energizes the higher centers.
David was a man after God's own heart. David had an awareness of Grace. There are two geneologies listed for Jesus in Scripture. One begins at Adam and one at Abraham. The one beginning at Abraham to David to the captivity in Babylon (confusion) to Christ is our growth in awareness/consciousness.
David symbolises an awareness that we have to come to. Remember he is the Heart center.

Ps 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Ps 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

This is the awareness of Grace. Our sin is covered, our iniquity is not imputed to us.
Also, the phrase "in whose spirit there is no guile" is usede by Jesus when he first meets Nathanael and promised him the same Spiritual experience that Jacob experienced. Seeing "Angels ascending and descending upon the son of man."
This experience was fulfilled, in my opinion, at Pentecost.

Without the awareness of Grace or "Key of David", we are unaware of the importance of what happened at the cross and unable to, as Paul said,
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

To know that God first loved us is to love God. This is what keeps the Heart center open and functioning.
As Tucker said it is almost an automatic thing.

Ge 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Ge 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

Onan refused to raise seed to his brother. God was wroth with him.
But Judah ended up raising that seed under cover as it were.
Judah is Praise.
It is by Praise, Judah that the seed (Sexual energy) is raised up. This is fueled by the heart center.
Grace means gift, Nathanael means gift of God. David is aware of this gift as his great sins were not held against him. Judah offers the acceptable sacrifice of Praise and thanksgiving in "response to" what first came down from above.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Our Saviour first came down from above and then rose.
Same with the energies within us.

Bob

Bob it was the physical results of sex energy that was raised up, not the "kundalini" that was raised up. From my stand point there is a difference.

Bob, the scriptures in your post that you have quoted adds a wonderful dimension to what we are talking about! Good post!

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

quote:

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Tucker has put here.

Same here, Bob, and I thank you for your contributions as well, and your witness to Christ. I think you present some interesting reflections on the mystical meaning of the scriptures.

- - -

Tucker, you still have us "going" with your references to a friendship with an ancient (immortal?) yogi named Shiva who seems to be something of a Christian. There are lots of Hindus who'd be sorely disappointed if they found out about that, as they're quite sure he's the "real deal," and worship him as such. I'd like to invite you to start a new thread and tell us more of your story in the Transformative Experiences forum. You do drop bits and pieces here and there, but a topic there would enable forum members to interact with you about different aspects of your journey. I'm not meaning to chase you off this thread, where you've made some helpful contributions, just to encourage you to another kind of discussion of a more personal level, if you'd like, of course.

Phil, I am just a voice in the wilderness along with a the clamor of whole bunch of other voices . And yes what I am saying is extremely controversial in both traditional Christianity and traditional Hindu yoga. And playing in this type of controversy without starting a cult is very tricky if I was ever taken seriously. At the same time I have inadvertently opened a can of worms and your request is valid. If you start a topic and show me where it is at, I will do my best to answer other peoples questions. But only under that format. I am not here to promote myself, I am only here to present my argument why the knudalini is not Christian and not necessary when it comes to true "union with God", should one be interested in seeking that. Phil, you actually understand the ramifications of what I am saying and other people for the most part do not, and I am happy about that . But, because your request is valid, if you want to start a topic and tell me where it is at, I will agree to participate in it.

Tucker, you go to the Transformative Experiences forum via this link:
- https://shalomplace.org/eve/forums/a/frm/f/19110765

Click on the New tab and scroll down to Discussion. This will bring up a posting form, and you can give the discussion a title in the Subject field, and type a brief message, saying as much or as little as you like, and inviting people to interact with you. Click the Post Now button and the new thread will be started.

I've got a couple of things I'd like to ask about, and I'm sure others will as well.

“Humanity, take a good look at yourself. Inside, you’ve got heaven and earth, and all of creation. You’re a world – everything is hidden in you.” –Hildegard of Bingen
http://www.paracletepress.com/...piritualreader.html

I do not know if this is an accurate interpretation of what Hildegard was saying. If it is then this is a long awaited connection within Christianity
with what I know as shaman & tantra.

Don't want to incorrectly read into what your saying Phil. It sounds like your hinting at something similar. And that this can all develop under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

"In a certain way each of us contains the whole evolution of the material part of the universe, and our physical, psychological and spiritual growth is the activation of that heritage.

from http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/some.htm

I originally posted some of this on another thread but then
moved it here.

I'm not familiar with that quote, Mary Sue, but it sounds fine to me. A traditional understanding of the soul is that, as a spiritual substance, it encompasses the entire material creation, so that part's not controversial. As for having heaven within . . . we do believe that God indwells every creature, so that's something we can affirm as well.