Revkah:

You sound like you're quite aware of these things and it seems a good perspective to think of these longings coming up as you experience Divine Love, with kundalini bringing forth whatever awaits in the subconscious to be touched by Divine and human love. That's my sense of what you're saying.

Also, nothing wrong with consolations. God leads us as we're ready for deeper contacts where we can't see or feel Him for a time, and this is how, I believe, St. John of the Cross describes aridities in general.

As for your spiritual director, she sounds like a warm and nurturing type, but I hear your fear of maybe needing her to be a therapist where she isn't. For me, there's simply a fear of needing too much, that my need will actually hurt my therapist. He reassures me, but it is still a fear and shame and tenderness that comes out and then he engages that as part of the present-moment relationship. Some spiritual directors are capable of providing the more direct engagement that verges on transference, and others limit this and refer to psychotherapists.

As you say, it can be hard to find the really intuitive, mature psychotherapists. If you're inclined in this direction, you might look at Diana Fosha's website and see if one of her colleagues listed there is near where you live. If not, you might call them and see if they are training any therapists nearby where you live.


www.aedpinstitute.com


It may not be critically important for a good, intuitive therapist to understand kundalini per se, as the good ones really do seem to have a keen sense of body awareness where they can be with us not just mentally but in terms of the energy of presence, or the living space between client and therapist and inside both as distinct people.


And I can relate to the immensity of Love He gives us. As long as we're opening to Him, spending time with Him most everyday, He'll take care of how we unfold in terms of the healing of addiction, readiness to move from "milk" to "meat." I'm still a milk-fed soul, and fear the aridities, but I've been through some recently and He's still there, but known by sheer faith and hope rather than the sweetness or bliss. But my sense is that the more I work with this therapist and let him "in," the less afraid I'll become of being "weaned" spiritually, since that fear is probably partly based on neglect when I was little: afraid there won't be enough.

Freebird, I seem to recall Gopi Krishna speaking of an inner body of light that he became aware of. What you describe sounds most luminous and beautiful.

I think your experiences of "spiritualized sexuality" is most rare indeed. I've not read or heard of anything quite like it anywhere, so your sharing on this is possibly breaking new ground in the kundalini literature.

quote:

So it is God who in His graces is giving to me in a sexual union what I would otherwise be receiving from a married partner. My soul has truly returned to Her true love and bridegroom.

You seem to have such a definite sense that what's been going on in these experiences is about deepening union with God. I'm thinking that even that kind of reassurance must be a grace. Thank you for sharing this with us.

quote:

Originally posted by Freebird:
[qb]... of an ethereal body woven of light. Some mystics call this invisible luminary "diamond body". I have also heard it described as the light spirit body of Christ.
I my knowing I see such a body within expanding and being lifted in and through me in awareness as I close my eyes and focus my consciousness on this internal body of light....I truly believe that the desire for an orgasm has left me after ten years of celibacy....[/qb]

Hi Freebird,

Thanks for your sharing. It helps me reflect on some of the changes I'm going though.

In regard to your saying you no longer have a desire of "orgasm", I'm reminded of what some advanced yoga practitioners say about orgasm. When the energy is refined, made spiritual there is still great pleasure, but no longer focused on the genitals.

I think that is what Yogani is talking about here.
http://www.aypsite.org/T51.html

Hi Ryan,

"When the energy is refined, made spiritual there is still great pleasure, but no longer focused on the genitals."
------------------------------

Ryan, very well said. As I mentioned in my above post I now experience the spiritualized refined energy within my heart and from there it radiates outwards all throughout the body. The absolute joy and bliss of same can continue for a long time, compared to the known sexual orgasm which we know ends quickly. The ecstasy within the heart is being one with God and all of His creations in a complete surrender to His love.

Thank you for sharing Yogani. He offers deep insights and understanding within our k process.

quote:

Originally posted by w.c.:
[qb] ... I'd imagine many mothers not comfortable with their own sexuality and experiencing the power of this connection, especially if they suffer from personality disorders (disconnection of kidney and heart energy), would be frightened of this intensity and cease breastfeeding, or perhaps more rarely exploit their children either physically/sexually or energetically with the need to be needed arising from their own abandonment issues....
All very very taboo. [/qb]

Hi w.c.

That very taboo speculation above is very close to my line of thought back in '94 (age 32) when I was working as a clinical social worker and reflecting on my own family of origin patterns. I was a firstborn child and my mother tried breast-feeding but was unable because, according to her, she didn't have enough milk. My hunch was that there was more to it. Our family moved away from her hometown when I was three and my little brother was newborn. My sense is she was, as an at home mom in a new town, fairly isolated and lonely. I think she looked to her children for a sense of groundedness and closeness. As I grew up, it seemed at times I was more emotionally intimate with her than dad was. The most painful part was when she gave voice to her frustrations about dad's inadequacy. I read a book describing "emotional incest" between mothers and sons and if fit some of my own sense of my relationship with my mother.

I tend to think that I've resolved it, or been healed in some aspect or at least put it in a context where I can accept it as part of my woundedness. In any case I have not thought about that taboo topic for some time. I have other taboo topics to keep me busy... like the emotional dynamics of reaching out to women who are in some respects like my mother (fyi, I�m not thinking of anyone on this list). I have a lot of compassion for women like her. For whatever lucky reason, I married lovely, lovable woman who does not remind me of my mother. My wife has her own identity, which, for me, is great.

WC, when you start saying stuff without making it clear who you are talking to, it leaves me wondering if you have a hunch you are touching on my concerns. Whether you intended it or not, I thought my response might be somehow useful for your further reflections.

Thanks,

There seem to be several cross-currents of exchange, which is par for the course on a discussion forum. I'd like to comment a little more on the following from Freebird:

quote:

I shall never have another orgasm since I heard the Dalai Lama mention once during an interview that light is expelled during an orgasm. I truly believe that the desire for an orgasm has left me after ten years of celibacy, and I certainly refuse to expend one flash of light from within my body. So being celibate or being gifted from God to live a life as an eunich does have certain advantages should one be within a kundalini process. In the advancement stages of kundalini pursuing a sexual union with another not centered in love will only culminate in having the sexual energies settle in the lower sexual area once again. I believe in marriage and in a true love relationship one is protected from this very disappointing lowering of these energies who had avanced in an ascent.

I'm not sure how the Dalai Lama came to his conviction that light is expelled during an orgasm (the various possibilities do not excite the imagination much ), but I do believe that if this is the case, and there is a mutuality in the lovemaking, then there's no energy lost. In fact, this admixture of energies is part of the delight and enrichment of lovemaking, not to mention the proper energetic milieu for conceiving a child (compare that with the cold, clinical atmosphere of in vitro fertilization). Freebird alludes to this mutuality . . . just wanted to add my amen to it.

After all is said and done, however, I'm not so sure any of this spiritualized sexual energy goes very far into the next life. Ultimately, it's grounded in created energy, from which it never completely breaks free. Whatever else a resurrected body might be, I don't think it has much in common with an illumined etheric body (and probably not a diamond body either).

Also, it's been impressed upon me repeatedly that the essence of the Christian life is agapaic, kenotic (self-giving) love. If one is not careful, spiritualized sexuality can easily become a goal in and of itself, with a certain "energy stinginess" creeping in as one strives to enhance and deepen the kundalini process and consequential illuminated states. In fact, that sort of thing is always the danger with K. Keeping the focus in terms of love of God and agape toward others means that we place even our high illuminations on the line, especially in the context of married life. How to do so while simultaneously honoring the very real requirements of life with awakened K is an ongoing struggle for me, as I'm already energy stingy to begin with (Enneagram 5). Yet my experience has been that when I give myself in love, all is well, even though there might be a temporary depletion. I understand this consequence in terms of the sacrificial nature of agape love, and so find meaning in it.

phil, thanks for that interesting story. unfortunately, i seem to be far from the enlightened state...perhaps much later in my life when i've matured a bit.

one other thing i wanted to note: when i do have sex, my lover often notes that i sometimes have a painful expression on my face.

i assume that this has to do with stuck energy. the sense of emotional pain usually seems to be released. it's facinating and i never knew that sex could be both profoundly enjoyable and healing at the same time.

thankfully, my lover is not into having sex just for the sake of sex...and she usually wants to stop when it seems to be superfluous.

oh, i lost my previous post...ryan i'm 31. i did experience blissful sensations, but not in the whole body. it seems to be that sex has started to smooth the energy out...i don't have time to retype what i had written. hopefully this will make sense!

ryan, i had answered your questions and then i had mistakenly hit the edit button, rather than the reply button, because i wanted to add one more small note. so, i start again, hoping that some of these experiences will help others struggling with similar issues.

you had asked me if i experienced any blissful sensations in the body: for the past 4 years there has been a constant pressure in the forehead (i keep mistyping 'fore', 'firehead' and crown. this has had numerous effects. one of which has been a widening of consciousness; when i relax into this pressure, my attention moves back to an unlocatable 'point.' this is a pleasing sensation and has a broadening effect on ones life. it effects me by almost canceling out previous thoughts which i had been attached to. it leaves me at a kind of zero point. this is usually accessible at any moment and is not really an 'experience' any more. i don't consider it 'enlightened' but simply a kind of reflex of the mind seeking its original source which is non-locatable. the second effect has been an infusion of various sorts of energy from above the head. this has caused much confusion in my life and a lot of turmoil at times. it is only when i pray that a pure, clear energy decends and clears this energy.

so these are my experiences in the upper body. the lower body feels - it is not frozen. but i feel myself as a deep contraction, especially below the naval, very close to the sexual centre.as i said, when i have sex now (after about 7 years of celibacy) it amounts to a kind of grounding, rootedness - not only of the body - but of the ENERGY ABOVE THE HEAD in the body. This is clear as i can express it and i hope it suffices. The sexual act doesn't usually lead to orgasm, although it can still be wild, intense, enjoyable. It can go on for hours if I wish. However, the act seems to become superflous for both my partner and I after a certain time. I think it is partly because my attention is not consciously directed towards the genitals, and even when it is, it is as though there is always a pull towards the heart, or head. This doesn't take conscious effort on my part, usually, although at times I do have to re-direct my attention consciously. Does this make sense? None of this is planned, or intended on my part, at least it is not clear to me that it is all my doing. What then occurs as we have deeper sex is a deeper sense of peace, at times a presence of angels. This, I would think, is a means by which God is purging me of the idea that sex is somewhat crude. In fact it is the source of relatedness, just as the non-locatable source behind the head seems to be the source of the intellect, forever falling back to a zero point. This latter effect on the intellect changes ones short term memory and this results in a deep sense of despair. One thinks about death a lot, as a result, and can often live in a liminal state because they do not have the faith to step forward from their waking sleep. Does this make any sense?

This has been my journey, one of despair, turmoil,vastness, very short interludes of joy, contradiction being resolved when the human begins to embrace its full possibilties. Sex has really become a means of emotional healing in this process although I am still rather obsessed with it.

Throw in culture, ancestral memory and you have a complex human being, a veritable fool/idiot.

There's all kinds of interesting things that occur when you take a risk to leave a Guru, or a spiritual path. I think it is important to have assimilated some of the teachings of a genuine teacher, and to have an opening that can continue - that doesn't depend on the physical proximity of a teacher. I am telling you quite sincerely, that sex has had a wonderful effect on my relationship with my own body, with my body-image, with a generally low self esteem (with an exaggerated sense of self-importance, as its antithesis). But you have to be guided by God and not by your naval. And perhaps, the naval can be correct as well But i have seen people leaving paths to have sex and only becoming worse off for it. I recommend any book by Mantak Chia. Although, I am not his student, I think these techniques can prove to be useful for those attempting to explore the deeper dimensions of sexuality in a safe way. He also has teachings for celibate people.

So these are my experiences, I hope they prove helpful for people with similar issues.

Asher

http://arifkhan00.blogspot.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Asher:
[qb] Does this make any sense?
This has been my journey..
\ [/qb]

Yes, Asher, your story makes sense to me, indeed, a lot more sense than your earlier post. So thanks, and it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance.

You alluded to leaving a Guru or spiritual path? Did you do so? If so, I'm curious, what path or guru did you leave?

quote:

Originally posted by w.c.:
[qb] Ryan: No, not having you in mind . . . [/qb]

OK, w.c., thanks for the clarification. Once, as a child age 8 or 9, I heard a sermon that deeply touched me. I asked for my first special meeting with the pastor to respond. The pastor said that he was surprised at my response, the sermon, he explained, was directed mainly to the elderly members of the congregation.

I guess some of the good stuff comes that way, in the ears of the listener.

Phil,
Your comment on "energy stinginess" intrigued me, and struck a chord. Can you say some more about this?
One of my on-going concerns about the awakening of k energy and the amazing (to me) turn that my prayer life has taken is a sense that I could easily drift into an ever more selfish kind of spirituality. I sense that underneath it all, there is a purpose, which is to move me forward in self-giving love, and that there will be a maturing or ripening into this, so that the servant love I offer the world will eventuallly be transformed along with the rest of me... someday. But in the meantime, as I said, "energy stinginess" struck an uncomfortable chord.

revkah, by "energy stinginess" I only meant to refer to selfishness manifesting in the higher levels of consciousness. E.g., one could become more focused on cultivating energy and higher consciousness than with loving, even going so far as to neglect important relationships. That said, it is nontheless important to "give the process its due" . . . e.g., to make dietary and lifestyle adjustments. There is a gift here, and it is good to receive it in gratitude, making use of it as God intends. So it's a bit of a balancing act, in my experience, with ongoing discernment called for.