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Sometimes the trick is to realize that God being present or not present is not dependent on how you feel (ie connected vs abandoned, open vs stressed, happy vs miserable). That's a trick of our own "ego" - to label the nice open connected feeling as "Oh, God's here again". He is always present, no matter how you happen to feel. In a sense, I believe, recognizing mercy and forgiveness is tied to recognizing that God *includes* the war zone, the abandonment, the stress, and all other forms of suffering. They are not in opposition to him, because his mercy is infinite. (Your mileage may vary, as they say, but this was an important recognition for me.) | ||||
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Yes, absolutely. God hidden or cloaked is still God, still present. And everything that happens emerges from him at some level. But the felt sense is nice, eh? No doubt such pure faith without sense is more transformative. | ||||
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I say that, Samson, because as you say "pure faith is more transformative"... but more so because pure faith is absolutely necessary. As long as we are dependent on a specific felt sense as "yay, there's God", we limit everything -in a sense constructing an "image" of God around our own self-center/preconceptions/desires. That felt sense will constantly change because it largely arising from our own selves. From the perspective of various Christian mystics, the very reason that we are offered trials and periods of aridity and difficulty in our lives and spiritual practice is SO THAT we can practice having that faith and stop reaching for the "candy." I'd say this applies just as much even if you aren't a mystical type, but just a regular person trying to live a life more in line with God's will. | ||||
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I'm not sure I agree the felt sense arises from the Self, Ona. Perhaps to an extent, because it's the Self that senses. But it's not a sense OF Self. Initially, it's given as consolation, but develops through the transformative process into an almost continual resting in love as Presence, where the Self is absorbed in the Beloved. There is the danger of constructing an image of God around that sensation, especally early on, but I think the 'I' transforms into a kind of receptive, open vessel that allows itself to be formed by God, by having God formed IN it. You're right that we can't rely on the feeling though, because it's faith that allows God to be Present to us in transforming union. | ||||
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Yeah, I think it depends a bit on a person's spiritual maturity what to point to. But i see a LOT of people get hung up on sensations and experiences "of God's presence" to the detriment of their own spiritual development. The practice of prayer turns into a practice of seeking bliss states and trying to avoid anything that feels unpleasant. This can be an eddy in which one spends decades (and trying to help someone out of that eddy when they've practiced that way for that long is very difficult.) If surrender to God's will is central, and one cannot know God's will, how can one decide NOT to surrender to the tumult and darkness of aridity; the pain of being ill; the fear of not knowing what is going to happen next; etc.? For the beginner, with no discernment and a heavy load of sin/virtue stuff to sort through, this may not be appropriate. But for someone who has gone deeper care must be taken not to fall into the grasping/avoiding habit. My own practice has always been surrender focused, so for those with other approaches this advice might not apply, I suppose. | ||||
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At this point Tara, i'm still learning myself & can only say a little. Sharing in Jesus's sufferings is not the same as being Jesus who is doing the healing. This is where i see the difference. | ||||
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Hi Ona If i may change your words a little knowing about sin is foundational for this work. Thanks | ||||
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No, it absolutely NOT taught like this and my friend certainly did not see any risk doing this practice. It made her quite affluent actually as she was earning lots of money. I cannot prove either that this practice was what made her die. Who is to say? I have, however, heard similar stories and I myself have literally taken on pain from my son when he was young and often suffered from tummy aches and could not sleep. I visualised his pain going from him to me - he feel asleep and I had some cramps in my stomach for a few hours. So, taking on suffering from others can be very real and literal and one should take that into consideration before engaging in this path of practice. Tara - find more help for kundalini problems on my website taraspringett.com/kundalini/kundalini-syndrome | ||||
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Ona, As regards surrender, I'm totally with you. It's been a major part of my growth too. Somehow it connects us to Gethsemane: "Nevertheless not my will, but thine be done..." And the cross: "Into YOUR hands..." The process of death and resurrection is continual. And surrender is crucial. But we can enjoy the fruits of resurrection and ascension without attachment or craving. My own struggle involves spiritual warfare though, and there comes a time when we have to be more proactive against negativity and evil. So while we surrender to what happens, our intention can be fixed to improve our situation and end our suffering... both parts working together - the active and passive. Somewhere between the two is that area of free will. | ||||
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Samson, what are your favorite Christian resources for that subject, if any? Do you know the book Unseen Warfare? (http://www.amazon.com/Unseen-Warfare-Spiritual-Paradise-Lorenzo/dp/0913836524) | ||||
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I don't really have any, Ona. Thanks for the tip on Unseen Warfare. I downloaded the PDF. | ||||
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Just an anecdote related to the above conversation: I arrived early today at the charity kitchen the local Carmelite nuns run. And to my surprise they had the staff gathered in the kitchen and were reading a set of prayers that were basically an exorcism: invoking Mary to conquer all evil and drive out Satan, invoking St. Michael and their Guardian Angels, etc. Very similar to prayers I've seen in other contexts for lay people to use for spiritual combat (sometimes labeled "prayers of liberation" or "self-exorcism"). They apparently do this every single morning. | ||||
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Hi Tara concentration difficul presently as it makes me feel like throwing up. Alot of energy in my head. Feels like an opening in my whole forehead, crown & back of head eyes, ears especially, & increased in other areas of body. Will see if yoga will be grounding?? | ||||
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After i last posted i thought why did i do that. God knows everything about me & so i asked him what do you want me to do as this is part of your plan for me. I heard keep up the devotional work & do physical work. So i did & while energy is still high all is well. | ||||
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Perhaps God wanted someone called Mary to mention God in a Kundalini sub forum on a Christian website so that someone out there needing help might find this place with their search engine. You never know.  | ||||
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