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Originally posted by Phil:

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What seems likely is that those who are drawn into deeper contemplative prayer become less Egoic overall. Their prayer acclimates them to non-reflective consciousness, and teaches them to live in this manner even outside the formal times of prayer. The open awareness, intuitive intelligence and detached willingness that characterizes non-reflective consciousness predominates as their normative state, with promptings from the Spirit influencing their actions through the day. They can still operate Egoically, if necessary, for life will continue to call forth times where intentional focus is required. But when the task is done, the awareness, intelligence and will invested in the Ego settles back into non-reflective openness and readiness. Such contemplatives live in the Self-God zone or ground of consciousness as their ordinary state. They have undergone deep religious conversion and so enjoy “being-in-love,” as Lonergan put it, without interruption.61

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Originally posted by Ona:
Fire of the Holy Spirit, maybe, or some other terminology? Or it is not named as a "thing" but happens nonetheless. Does anyone know?

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The "first state" of burning love to which Rolle attained when his purification was at an end, does seem to have produced in him such a psycho-physical hallucination. He makes it plain in the prologue of the Incendium that he felt, in a physical sense, the spiritual fire, truly, not imaginingly; as St. Teresa--to take a well-known historical example--felt the transverberation of the seraph's spear which pierced her heart. This form of automatism, though not perhaps very common, is well known in the history of religious experience; and many ascetic writers discuss it. Thus in that classic of spiritual common sense, "The Cloud of Unknowing," we find amongst the many delusions which may beset "young presumptuous contemplatives," "Many quaint heats and burnings in their bodily breasts"--which may sometimes indeed be the work of good angels (i.e., the physical reflection of true spiritual ardour) yet should ever be had suspect, as possible devices of the devil. Again, Walter Hilton includes in his list of mystical automatisms, and views with the same suspicion, "sensible heat, as it were fire, glowing and warming the breast." In the seventeenth century Augustine Baker, in his authoritative work on the prayer of contemplation mentions "warmth about the heart" as one of the "sensible graces," or physical sensations of religious origin, known to those who aspire to union with God. In our own day, the Carmelite nun Soeur Therese de l'Enfant-Jesus describes an experience in which she "felt herself suddenly pierced by a dart of fire." "I cannot," she says, "explain this transport, nor can any comparison express the intensity of this flame. It seemed to me that an invisible force immersed me completely in fire." Allowing for the strong probability that the form of Soeur Therese's transport was influenced by her knowledge of the life of her great namesake, we have no grounds for doubting the honesty of her report; the fact that she felt in a literal sense, though in a way hard for less ardent temperaments to understand, the burning of the divine fire. Her simple account--glossing, as it were, the declarations of the historian and the psychologist--surely gives us a hint as to the way in which we ought to read the statements of other mystics, concerning their knowledge of the "fire of love."

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Originally posted by Ona:
(perhaps already discussed at endless length in the past)

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Having said all that I can't help but thinking that if Christians speak of union with God or as Phil has put it 'seeing with God's eyes' that it is the same experience that Buddhist call 'experiencing your Buddha nature'.

I don't know how many of you know Evelyn Underhill's analysis of the mystical experiences of Christian saints and some saints of other religions. It's extremely wordy and a pain to work through but after studying this book and comparing it to my own experiences I can only agree with her that these mystical states are pretty identical. She calls the final state the 'unitive way'.

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So, kundalini is not enlightenment in itself but the energy that allows us to go from short glimpses to complete stabilisation.

I think this also clarifies the argument whether you need kundalini to reach enlightenment. The answer is: for short glimpses - no, for stabilisation - yes. (oops - I used the word enlightenment again in a rather unspecific way )

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This is very good, Phil. After four years, I think I finally understand what nrc is!

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Originally posted by Phil:
What seems likely is that those who are drawn into deeper contemplative prayer become less Egoic overall. Their prayer acclimates them to non-reflective consciousness, and teaches them to live in this manner even outside the formal times of prayer. The open awareness, intuitive intelligence and detached willingness that characterizes non-reflective consciousness predominates as their normative state, with promptings from the Spirit influencing their actions through the day. They can still operate Egoically, if necessary, for life will continue to call forth times where intentional focus is required. But when the task is done, the awareness, intelligence and will invested in the Ego settles back into non-reflective openness and readiness. Such contemplatives live in the Self-God zone or ground of consciousness as their ordinary state.

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During Christian enlightenment can one say that they died on the cross with Jesus sharing in the suffering of Jesus. Then are
in relationship with God. The Peace of God.

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Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:

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During Christian enlightenment can one say that they died on the cross with Jesus sharing in the suffering of Jesus. Then are
in relationship with God. The Peace of God.

Mary Sue
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In the Catholic biographies I have read virtually all saints started to share in the suffering of Christ at some point. I would see that only as natural that as your identification with Christ progresses you would want to do that.

In Tibetan Buddhism we have similar practices of taking on the suffering of others (tonglen) but the main thrust is to find within yourself an inexhaustible source of bliss and happiness that will enable you to help others in a tireless way.

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If i understand you correctly you agree that the process & reason for taking on the suffering of others in Buddhism is different than Christianity.

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There is a notable obstacle to the continuity of this, and that's when I reconnect to the psychic source of my own particular suffering. I won't go into that but wanted to highlight that I at least, don't seem to be immune to negativity or evil, despite that contemplative resting in God, and would suggest that no one on earth, regardless of how enlightened, awakened, in loving union with God they are, is exempt or free from the suffering of the world.