quote:

Originally posted by Ona:

quote:

...the true goal of zen, which has no goal (heh heh ) other than to be present to "what is."

Which is not too far from "Thy will be done..."

But not exactly the same, either. "Will" implies a volitional engagement that usually accompanies reflectivity, which Zen seems to have little use for -- at least in the arena of spirituality. Love is a commitment of the will moreso than a spontaneous movement from awareness. Christian spirituality encompasses reflective and volitional consideration/engagement (kataphatic spirituality) in addition to the more "nondual" (how I HATE that word! ) contemplative approaches. One could theoretically be a Christian zen pracitioner, as, indeed, I think Thomas Merton was such toward the end of his life.

Phil - Can you say that again in simpler words?

That was a koan!

"God's will" implies a response of "doing" as well as "seeing." Doing engages the will, and the will is informed by the mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
That was a koan!

"God's will" implies a response of "doing" as well as "seeing." Doing engages the will, and the will is informed by the mind.

I think it was just speaking in tongues!

I see your point. More ponder on that later.

quote:

One could theoretically be a Christian zen pracitioner, as, indeed, I think Thomas Merton was such toward the end of his life.

He was also heading in the direction of Tibetan Buddhism, according to the Asian Journals, which I've had a hankering to reread. He had no belief in reincarnation, but Tibetan meditative practises fascinated him no end, and he met a couple of lamas in India with whom he felt a real kinship.

Could one be a Christian Tibetan Buddhist? That I find really fascinating! Is kundalini drawing traditions together now more than ever? And is a new synthesis emerging which draws on the compatible strands of different faiths? Merton was certainly a great forerunner.

Stephen, I guess the question is could one be a Christian Buddhist or a Buddhist Christian? See the difference? I'm supposing the suffix is the more definitive term, with the prefix serving as a modifier or descriptor, probably with reference more to practice than doctrine.

My response is that this is not only possible, but is the way many Christians understand themselves these days. Merton would have been a good example of a zennish Christian. I'm more familiar with his writings on the interfacings of these two traditions than I am with his thoughts on Tibetan Buddhism. I know he and the Dalai Lama met and had good conversations . . . considered one another to be friends.

quote:

Shaktipat is a risky endeavour as you rightly point out. However, I could not help but giving my poor husband shaktipat Big Grin
Now I have to deal with the aftermath of that.

No, seriously, I did give him shaktipat and I do help him to get through the process and he is really glad about both. (He's a great husband!!)

Glad to hear that's working out, Tara. Married couples, of course, do share deep energy bonds already, so that doesn't seem as risky as receiving shaktipat from someone else.

It's my sense that shaktipat and other types of "energy touch" (including reiki) draw from the unconscious of the one administering the touch, and affect the unconscious of the one who receives it. I know of at least five people who've been deeply wounded from this sort of thing.

I gave a presentation at a kundalini conference in San Francisco a few years ago, during the course of which I was asked if I still had struggles at times. I replied that I did, and shared some of them. After my presentation, a man came up to me, offering to do "energy work" on me to get rid of my "blocks," which he had clearly sensed during my talk. I could feel the hair on my back stand up in warning, so I thanked him and politely refused, walking away from him. He followed me, persisting in explanation that he had read my aura and pinpointed where the block was, and in just a few minutes he could have it all cleared. I politely refused again. Then he grabbed my left arm and turned me to face him, to continue the discussion. At that point, something of my Louisiana cajun background came to the fore and I just glared at him defiantly. He let go of my arm and walked away. I did not see him the rest of the conference and wonder who he really was and what agenda he might have had. Obviously, I have never regretted refusing his "energy work."

I suppose the territory I am exploring now is is it not possible (or interesting, or relevant) to be just a Christian? Is that not sufficient? So far it is more than sufficient for me, "despite" the "nondual" stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:

Hope this makes sense.

I'm starting to understand

Thanks

quote:

I suppose the territory I am exploring now is is it not possible (or interesting, or relevant) to be just a Christian? Is that not sufficient? So far it is more than sufficient for me, "despite" the "nondual" stuff.

What do you mean by "territory," Ona? The Christian life? If so, then of course that's sufficient. We have several forums devoted primarily to Christian issues.

quote:

My retreat master summarized the goal of the practice as follows: to merge the Father and the Mother essence at the Heart. The Mother essence is bliss, the Father essence is emptiness. Tummo is the marriage of bliss are emptiness.
As such, you can also easily see why not every K awakening leads to "leading a decent life". Some people are hooked up on the bliss of the experience (Tara made this remark on the board concerning the ayp-people in general). Others get swamped in emptiness. However, the true goal is not reaching out for the Father, nor for the Mother. As a good Son, you must reach out for Both and demonstrate you inherited good traits from both of them

Aion,
very true indeed!

The goal is the merging of these seemingly irreconcilable parts of our inner nature: love and happiness in plain English.

When we are (too) happy we have a natural tendency to think we are somehow more important than others (that can be easily observed in teenagers)

When we are (too) loving we have a tendency to take on too much suffering from others until we sink into depression.
#
Bringing infinte love and joy together in equal measure could be described as the final goal in Tibetan Buddhism.

quote:

It's my sense that shaktipat and other types of "energy touch" (including reiki) draw from the unconscious of the one administering the touch, and affect the unconscious of the one who receives it. I know of at least five people who've been deeply wounded from this sort of thing.

Phil
I had had bad experiences with energy healing. One example: I was part of a spiritualist group for psychic development for years (the leader said that he really was a Buddhist at heart - he had quite a lot of spiritual powers/realisation). There was this very kind man, who I knew very well and one day I allowed him to give me spiritual healing. I developed a head-ache so bad that I could not fall asleep at night and had to take a pain killer - that's unheard of in my life.

I warn all my clients to NOT go to energy healers. It's one of my most important warnings. No matter, how well intended the healer he or she is still in the equation and will transfer their stuff onto you. And with awakened kundalini one would not want that to happen because you will feel every bit of it.

About being a Christian Buddhist:

I would add that once you start having mystical experiences these distinctions start to blur anyway.
Also, Jesus teachings in the New Testament do not differ with Tibetan Buddhism at all. It's all about loving kindness.

quote:

I know of at least five people who've been deeply wounded from this sort of thing.

Might I be one of those?

As some will know, I went to an energy healer as a young, naive kid, kundalini newly activated, and have been struggling with the consequences ever since. An attachment was made, who's roots appear to be karmic and deeply hidden in my psyche, and despite a number of exercises and visualisations, and lots of prayer, the link just hasn't been severed, causing severe periods of trauma at times.

And yes, I can see where being a Buddhist Christian might be infinitely preferable , although, like Tara says, I feel these terms are transcended at the peak of spiritual experience.

quote:

About being a Christian Buddhist:

I would add that once you start having mystical experiences these distinctions start to blur anyway.
Also, Jesus teachings in the New Testament do not differ with Tibetan Buddhism at all. It's all about loving kindness.

Tara, I disagree. While there are indeed similarities between the mystical teachings of the world religions, there are significant differences. Also, there is much taught by and about Jesus in the New Testament that is significantly different from Buddhism. These are two different world religions for good reasons.