quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

quote:

One of my main issues with the Catholic mystical tradition is that it doesn't teach anything in a systematic way.

I've responded at length on the thread Derek linked to above as well, but what I'm wondering about, Paul, is why you have somehow not come across methods of prayer like Lectio Divina, mental prayer, Centering Prayer, the Rosary, prayer of simplicity, practice of the presence of God, the Jesus Prayer, the Cloud of Unknowing, or other methods of prayer that have been around for ages in the Catholic tradition? If you're not familiar with any of these, then do a search on the Internet.

I have, Phil. Looking back, I suppose what actually may have occurred is that I found the literature confusing and I couldn't make good use of it because I was too obtuse.

LOL! Well, that can be a problem, and we all suffer from it at times.

quote:

I was taught - and it is a teaching that I think I can make public - that these demons are not to be destroyed nor avoided. I was given the power to change them to angels, sometimes by touching them, other times with a stick or sword

Aion
well done for learning to deal with the demons!

I teach something similar: I ask people to envelop the demon (or any frightening entity) in loving light and maybe place it into the arms of their higher power. Love heals everything!

if you would just decide on one method of prayer, such as the Jesus Prayer and keep practising it regularly for a few weeks you may find that the Holy Spirit will help you to put down roots and you will gain a foothold.

quote:

Originally posted by georgina:
if you would just decide on one method of prayer, such as the Jesus Prayer and keep practising it regularly for a few weeks you may find that the Holy Spirit will help you to put down roots and you will gain a foothold.

Is this directed toward me?

I was able to find a method of prayer that I settled into. I will say that one book that was helpful, even though I wasn't sure if I was "doing it right" while reading it, was the Third Spiritual Alphabet, which talked about "recollection" as a form of prayer.

Paul, St. Teresa's "Prayer of Simplicity" (or Simple Regard) might interest you, as it is largely about sustaining recollection (mind and will focused onto God, open to contemplative graces). See http://www.ldysinger.com/@book.../spir_theol/st12.htm and scroll down a bit and you'll find it. It's a mainstay in my own prayer.

quote:

Originally posted by myfutureself:
I will say that one book that was helpful, even though I wasn't sure if I was "doing it right" while reading it, was the Third Spiritual Alphabet, which talked about "recollection" as a form of prayer.

Phil, not sure if you know this or not, but The Third Spiritual Alphabet is the book from which St. Teresa learned how to pray. She states this in her Life. In many ways, it's easier to follow than St. Teresa's own books, since Francisco de Osuna was a more systematic writer.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Paul, St. Teresa's "Prayer of Simplicity" (or Simple Regard) might interest you, as it is largely about sustaining recollection (mind and will focused onto God, open to contemplative graces). See http://www.ldysinger.com/@book.../spir_theol/st12.htm and scroll down a bit and you'll find it. It's a mainstay in my own prayer.

I have most of St. Teresa's books, and have read some of them, but the way she writes is difficult for me because of the flowery and metaphorical language she uses. I am familiar with the prayer of simplicity, though, and it is similar to what I've done in the past. I became familiar with the "prayer of quiet" and similar graces for a while in my development. My meditation style is a little bit different now. Don't get me wrong - I eventually figured out what the saints and mystics were talking about, but it was a frustrating process for me.

Paul

I was unaware of Francisco de Osuna & his book
"Pryaer of Recollection." Thank you for bringing this up. I found this an excellent site

From Our Carmelite Promise: To Ponder Always
in Imitation of Mary
The Way of Recollection
http://www.meditationsfromcarm...omises/Promise_3.pdf

Paul and Derek, the link I posted was not from St. Teresa's writings, but is a very straightforward presentation of her stages and methods of prayer by Jordan Aumann from his book on spiritual theology.

Incidentally, the "Prayer of Simplicity" is next on my list of books to write, as I view it to be a viable alternative to centering prayer, which claims to have connection to it (but which is actually much closer to the Cloud of Unknowing approach). I find the Prayer of Simplicity to be much more flexible and natural in its form, allowing for a variety of means to focus one's attention unto God.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Incidentally, the "Prayer of Simplicity" is next on my list of books to write

The Ways of Mental Prayer by Vital Lehodey is another good survey of the contemplative tradition. It might help you with your book, if you haven't seen it already.

Hi Tara

I'm going away till Sunday so wanted to touch
base with you about the reincarnation issue on
the other thread. Please know how grateful i
am for all your wonderful sharing with us. You have really made a positive impression on me with discussion with other religions. There are some differences however.

I use to kid that i thought i was a contemplative nun in a past life. Yet as time has gone by i've found the unconscious mind an interesting place. If i place my attention on any belief system now i can have some of their experiences.

This is what happened to me once before. And i
really got sidetracked. I vowed i wouldn't let
that happen again.

And so i truly believe that because i have been
called to Christianity that the answer will fit
into Christian understanding. I'm starting
to read so many beautiful passages from the Bible about God's love for us even before we
are born. And how wonderfully we are made ect.

I believe the differences in beliefs are, at in part, about how & where our souls
are formed. Going in this direction is opening
me up to so many wonder ways of God. The
wonder of it all is so humbling to me.

All the best to you.

Hi Mary Sue
from a practical point to view it makes no difference if one believes that images arise from our unconscious mind or from a past life. In the end of the day they are both 'images in our mind'. In order to deal with these images successfully it is not important whether one believes in past lives or not.

My guiding force is always to use that approach and belief that leads to the strongest development of love.

Have a good time, whereever you are going!

I know people who are awake who have had very minimal energetic symptoms/phenomena during their entire spiritual path. Among some friends we sometimes joke about this being the "no big wow club". They meditate quietly, they have no visions or trembling or impressive ecstatic experiences. They have no novel-worthy stories to tell. They just wake up one day while folding laundry or taking out the trash.

Among the people I know who have had very strong energetic phenomena during their spiritual process most had very devotional practices. But I can't say that all people with devotional practices necessarily have a lot of kundalini activity either. No data there.

My own practices before I became Christian were in Santeria (a very devotional polytheistic religious practice that includes trance/possession states) and later (after a long break from any religious interest whatsoever) a practice of devotion to my Holy Guardian Angel in the Western Occult tradition. During that latter period, which was more recent, I had very intense visions, ecstasies, even hallucinations occasionally.

My focus was always on utter love for my angel and surrender to his guidance, and my meditation instruction was "allowing things to be as they are" (the way I practiced 30 minutes a day was of "pure" meditation; other parts of the day could be taken up with vision work, spirit work, or whatever else I was interested in).

I took no crap from anything that showed up (this sort of energetic activity seems to draw spirits). I was experienced at and confident in calling, communicating with and sending away spirits, and had firm boundaries about what was and wasn't permitted in my home and personal space.

What I found a bit surprising was that this who process eventually started to fade away and I was led into a deeper and deeper engagement with Christ, first via devotional work with saints and spontaneous visions of the Crucifixion; then via the Rosary, which gradually became my daily spiritual practice and led to a flowering of profound love that led me to be baptized in the Catholic Church.

I no longer have any notable kundalini phenomena or, for that matter, any sensory/mental phenomena such as visions, trances or feeling the presence of spirits.

As those things dropped away it felt like a relief. The "strangest" anything gets these days is just a sense of deep joy and love, or a gentle bliss, or not infrequent tears of joy and wonder, and a general sense of harmony with how things are unfolding.

It feels like a real gift to have come to such a happiness and calm. I tend to look back and think of my spiritual path as God whacking me on my thick skull with a large rock for years, while I cluelessly didn't take the hint.

Any good that's come from my earlier shenanigans seems solely due to God's great patience and mercy, as I deserve none of it. I don't feel that anything I have is mine at all, but only His.

I spent a good while before and after my conversion in a misery of contrition, which seemed an important process to go through and I think really deepened my understanding of Christ's sacrifice and God's love. I still find that a good reminder, and I mean it when I say with all my heart in Mass: "Lord, I am not worthy..." I really feel so very grateful to been led through that thicket of thorns and mud to such a simple, peaceful place.

Thanks so much for sharing your story, Ona. I was going to ask you about your journey at some point, but here is the summary of it.

I'm wondering if you would be willing to post what you've written above as a new discussion in the Transformative Experiences forum? That way people could interact with you about your experiences and it wouldn't be buried in the midst of this discussion on kundalini syndrome.

Regarding that topic, here are a few observations, some of which are illustrated in your sharing:

a. There are many good and holy Christians who are deeply surrendered to God, but who show no signs of kundalini.

b. There are many people with kundalini who have no interest in becoming a follower of Christ nor of being a Christian. Often, they see Christ as one who realized his inner connection with God better than most of us do.

c. There are even people who have experienced "enlightenment" who show no signs of awakened kundalini. By enlightenment here I mean that they are awake to themselves as the non-reflecting witness/subject of their consciousness prior to any acts of reflection. Zen, for example, seems to have no use for kundalini, considering it a huge distraction.

d. There are lots of kundalini people who are neither Christians nor enlightened, but are just bopping around in energy with inflated Egos.

We've brought out these nuances many times before on this board, but it's always more instructive to hear the story of someone who has lived through those discernments.