quote:

Among some friends we sometimes joke about this being the "no big wow club"

Hi Ona
thanks for sharing your story. But why no big wow? I think being in a continuous state of deep joy and love very 'wowing'!

In my experience, all the negative symptoms come from unresolved issues and they should naturally subside once we work our way through this mess.

Whether we have supernatural powers, very much depends on whether we want that or not. Kundalini is like fuel and if we use this fuel to develop, let's say, the power of spiritual healing, then we will be more successful than without kundalini.

If we use the kundalini mainly for spiritual enlightenment or union with God (the path you seem to have chosen) then that is what we will be successful with.

quote:

. There are even people who have experienced "enlightenment" who show no signs of awakened kundalini.

Zen, for example, seems to have no use for kundalini, considering it a huge distraction.

According to Tibetan Buddhism and also Hinduism you can not achieve higher spiritual realisations without kundalini awakening.

Zen Buddhism uses the hara (navel chakra) as their main focus. That is the chakra for awakening the kundalini!! Anybody who focusses for long enough on the hara will awaken the kundalini.

So, if they say they find the kundalini is a big distraction then this is either pure rhetoric or a misunderstanding. Or someone simply does not know what they are talking about.

quote:

By enlightenment here I mean that they are awake to themselves as the non-reflecting witness/subject of their consciousness prior to any acts of reflection.

I am not totally sure what you mean but in Tibetan Buddhism enlightenment is much much more. It is not only a meditation experience of some sort but also the power to work for the benefit of all beings in a really powerful way.

quote:

d. There are lots of kundalini people who are neither Christians nor enlightened, but are just bopping around in energy with inflated Egos.

Who do you have in mind?

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
c. There are even people who have experienced "enlightenment" who show no signs of awakened kundalini.

Question:

All the descriptions of kundalini I've read describe tinglings, rushings, burnings, energy movements, and so on.

Is it possible for kundalini to be awakened, yet for a person to have none of these physiological symptoms? In other words, while they might experience a total transformation of their consciousness, this is accompanied by no out-of-the-ordinary sensations in the body, yet kundalini can still be said to be awakened?

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
By enlightenment here I mean

Ah, back to my favorite subject, the definition of terminology But let's not go there for now, as I'm more interested in the question I raised above.

Re. Zen, Tara wrote:

quote:

According to Tibetan Buddhism and also Hinduism you can not achieve higher spiritual realisations without kundalini awakening.

Zen Buddhism uses the hara (navel chakra) as their main focus. That is the chakra for awakening the kundalini!! Anybody who focusses for long enough on the hara will awaken the kundalini.

So, if they say they find the kundalini is a big distraction then this is either pure rhetoric or a misunderstanding. Or someone simply does not know what they are talking about.

Tara, I don't think all Hindu yogic paths emphasize kundalini awakening. Jnana yoga, for example, and even raja yoga, say little about it. Even teachers of the Bhakti path do not emphasize kundalini. If it comes, fine; if not, OK.
- see http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~...kundalini-faq.html#3

I have known two zen masters in my life and have communicated extensively with them about kundalini. They both said that they did not know the experience, but some of their students had come upon it and had to take a break from zazen for awhile as it only stirred things up too much. They saw no need for kundalini awakening to bring about satori nor to sustain enlightenment. I am sure they knew what they were talking about.

I have at least 20 books on zen, and not one has a reference to kundalini nor anything equivalent.

From Derek:

quote:

Is it possible for kundalini to be awakened, yet for a person to have none of these physiological symptoms? In other words, while they might experience a total transformation of their consciousness, this is accompanied by no out-of-the-ordinary sensations in the body, yet kundalini can still be said to be awakened?

Not likely, at least in the initial stages, unless their body/psyche system is perfectly pure. Usually there are definite sensations.

Re. enlightenment: a term we've discussed here many times. We have several threads on this; those on nonduality are of relevance as well.

quote:

Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:

quote:

Among some friends we sometimes joke about this being the "no big wow club"

Hi Ona
thanks for sharing your story. But why no big wow? I think being in a continuous state of deep joy and love very 'wowing'!

In my experience, all the negative symptoms come from unresolved issues and they should naturally subside once we work our way through this mess.

Whether we have supernatural powers, very much depends on whether we want that or not. Kundalini is like fuel and if we use this fuel to develop, let's say, the power of spiritual healing, then we will be more successful than without kundalini.

If we use the kundalini mainly for spiritual enlightenment or union with God (the path you seem to have chosen) then that is what we will be successful with.

Tara - I wasn't clear there. "No big wow" was the club certain friends belonged to, who never had anything unusual happen. I was not a member. But we often wondered why it was so different for different people. I don't know whether we tend to only notice kundalini stuff if it is really big, or if we are looking for it? For someone whose meditation practice is "note sensations"and they go along "trembling, heat, vibrations, pleasure, fear, tingling, twitching" - they may not have any reason to say "oh, look, kundalini" because it's just not a part of the practice they do nor a relevant term.

I do agree the term is a handy way to talk about it, though it's very problematic for many Christians because the terminology and approach is very entangled in Eastern practices.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Thanks so much for sharing your story, Ona. I was going to ask you about your journey at some point, but here is the summary of it.

I'm wondering if you would be willing to post what you've written above as a new discussion in the Transformative Experiences forum? That way people could interact with you about your experiences and it wouldn't be buried in the midst of this discussion on kundalini syndrome.
...

Sure, though I might write it differently for that context. Or not. I emphasized the parts here that seemed more relevant to the kundalini thread.

quote:

All the descriptions of kundalini I've read describe tinglings, rushings, burnings, energy movements, and so on.

Is it possible for kundalini to be awakened, yet for a person to have none of these physiological symptoms? In other words, while they might experience a total transformation of their consciousness, this is accompanied by no out-of-the-ordinary sensations in the body, yet kundalini can still be said to be awakened?

Derek
in my observation with my clients and myself the physical symptoms are over-emphasised.

My kundalini was awakened in 1984 with no internet around to help me diagnose what was going on. I was part of a scene where many engaged in therapies with screaming, which is a rather fast way to awaken the kundalini.

We all shook and jerked in varying degrees but it was 'normal' then and we took no notice.

The big event of the kundalini is the total transformation of our mind - being 'forced' to engage in nothing but personal and spiritual development or else suffer great pains.

I believe that it is possible to have very few physical symptoms during a kundalini awakening, particularly if you are whole-heartedly engaged in personal development. I have quite a number of clients like that.

Ah, thank you. I was heavily into primal therapy in the 90s but never experienced anything resembling kundalini symptoms. Your "being 'forced' to engage in nothing but personal and spiritual development or else suffer great pains" gives me cause to look at whether that might now be true for me.

quote:

I don't know whether we tend to only notice kundalini stuff if it is really big, or if we are looking for it? For someone whose meditation practice is "note sensations"and they go along "trembling, heat, vibrations, pleasure, fear, tingling, twitching" - they may not have any reason to say "oh, look, kundalini" because it's just not a part of the practice they do nor a relevant term.

Ona,
I did not know that I had an awakening of kundalini until 12 years ago when I started the meditation to purposefully awaken it. I then studied some books and it was like, 'wait - I already had one'.

As I mentioned in my previous post there was very very little info about kundalini around when I experiened my awakening but looking back I can now identify several people I knew who all struggled with kundalini symptoms. One was my flatmate who developed a fully-fledged kundalini psychosis. I can see it all so clearly now - all the suffering this poor girl went through without anybody able to help her.

I believe that most people who engage in some form of self-development awaken the kundalini to varying degrees. This is part of the point of self-development - it makes us more aware, alive and vivacious - all benign and healthy kundalini symptoms.

It's just if there is more energy coming in that we can handle due to our own repressions (sexual, emotional and intellectual) that we get these really difficult problems. So, strictly speaking, it's the repression that is the problem, not the kundalini. But then, everybody is repressed to a certain degree.

quote:

Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:
So, strictly speaking, it's the repression that is the problem, not the kundalini.

It's possible that doing all that primal therapy in the 90s cleaned out my system well before the awakening happened. But the therapy was with trained and experienced primal therapists. Were you doing your "screaming" with the Osho/Rajneesh people?

That makes sense Tara. Whether the awakening process is thick with physical symptoms or not, it does seem that people with very difficult stuff they don't want to deal with end up having a very hard time.

I didn't really use the term kundalini (though I was familiar with it) and my focus was more on other parts of my process (interactions with angels and spirits, devotion to my guiding angel, insights in meditation, investigating and questioning what I believed about who I was and how the world worked, etc). But for me the physical aspects of awakening were very intense, too. I just tended to put that in the category of side effects to keep sitting through.

quote:

It's possible that doing all that primal therapy in the 90s cleaned out my system well before the awakening happened. But the therapy was with trained and experienced primal therapists. Were you doing your "screaming" with the Osho/Rajneesh people?

Derek
did you have an awakening? I thought you didn't?
I know several people who did screaming work and had strong kundalini awakenings - drove them literally nearly mad. It's quite a dangerous approach in my opinion. One girl was so debilitated she ended up as a psychiatric case and had to live in flat that was supervised by social worker even many year after she had stopped with the primal scream. In today's world she could have sued the therapist. Back then, the therapist could not have cared less.

I did my screaming in bioenergetic therapy. There was a big Osho scene at that point in my town and I knew many of the disciples but I kept my distance. But I did use their dynamic meditation a lot. That's a real 'pop-the-cork meditation'.

quote:

Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:
Derek
did you have an awakening?

Yes, but with no kundalini symptoms whatsoever. In fact, the aftermath of it is documented right here on Shalom Place. I also wrote out a fuller description in chapter 4 of my little essay, which Ona, Phil, and Samson have read.

So . . . obviously, people use the term "kundalini awakening" to refer to a wide range of experiences, which I've noted here many times.

In the most general sense, it's the way the body/mind adjusts to spiritual growth; it's also about healing the body/mind to integrate spiritual growth.

That's not the usual sense of the term, however. No one would even write books about this or bring it up if that's all there was to it. That "general sense" is sort of like saying that everyone has down times so we've all experienced depression. Not so! Depression is non-relenting and disillusioning, moving many to suicide.

Likewise (in my use of the term), kundalini awakening is not simply energy tingles that accompany adjustments of the body/mind to spiritual growth. It is at least that, but it is also an intense and non-relenting flow of bio-energy (chi, prana) whose goal is to open and sustain openness in an inner part of the brain (deep in frontal lobes, it feels like) that activates a pure, non-reflecting state of awareness. One's sexual energy becomes enlisted in this project as well. In my experience and of others who have this, it can be partially integrated in that it's not a disruption of one's life, but this inner process never goes away. You have to adjust your life to it, or it will truly make you suffer. What it calls for is a very simple lifestyle, lots of time for silence and solitude, and moderation in all things (diet, sex, reading, etc.). Not easy, but possible.

I do like Gopi Krishna's writings on kundalini and brain evolution as they ring true with my experience.
- see http://www.newbrainnewworld.co...i:Kundalini_Research
- also: http://www.newbrainnewworld.com/?A_New_Brain

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
which I've noted here many times.

Yes, we do seem to repeat our conversations here.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
it is also an intense and non-relenting flow of bio-energy

Perhaps what I call "the turbulent period" (3/22/2011 - 3/30/2011) has something in common with kundalini after all. But there were no unusual physiological sensations.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
this inner process never goes away.

Okay, for me, there was a definite day the process came to completion.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
I do like Gopi Krishna's writings on kundalini and brain evolution as they ring true with my experience.

I could give my views on the use of the word "evolution" in this context, but that would be to repeat myself from a thread of a few years ago