Tate, that's amazing how our experiences seem so similar . I still have a deep respect for Ramana Maharshi and advaita tradition, but he's nothing (sorry Ramana) compared to Jesus Christ. I would like to add to my previous post that I think I had already established a connection to Jesus as I was child, but I got a bit side tracked and it took awhile until I reconneted with Him again.

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John,

Let me run this one by you if I may. Ken Wilber prefers a higherarchy of mystical experience, beginning with Emerson as an example of Nature Mysticism, Theresa of Avila as an example of Diety
Mysticism, Eckhardt as an example of Formless Mysticism and at the pinnacle the Non-Dual Mysicism
of Maharshi.

David Hawkins, on the other hand, calibrates Saint Theresa, Eckhardt and Ramana Maharshi at the same level of truth. How would you account for this?

MysticalMichael The simple answer is that, I have no idea. But that is no fun so to heck with the simple answer! First we must assume that all of these people are "right". So then the question becomes, "How can the same reality be seen in so many different ways?" Mystical Michael, anybody, do you have any suggestions?

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From where I sit, Divine Union a la Theresa and John of the Cross would be as high as one could hope for as a Beatific Vision.

John climbs up on his soap box So Mystical Michael what about the mechanical aspects of "Divine Union"? There seems to be two aspects to "Divine Union", one is mind/spirit and the other is mind/physical. And they both seem to have to come into play at the same time. We have two sides to our brain. The female side is mind/spiritual and the male side is mind/physical. It seems to be that both sides have to transcend together at the same time, in "Divine Union" with God. What we mystics seem to be doing, is transcending in "Divine Union" with only the female side, mind/spiritual. Could this be possible? Jesus took His body with Him when He left. And He seemed to indicate that what He could do we could do also. So what do you think? Love, John

quote:

Originally posted by acaveyogi:
John climbs up on his soap box So Mystical Michael what about the mechanical aspects of "Divine Union"? There seems to be two aspects to "Divine Union", one is mind/spirit and the other is mind/physical. And they both seem to have to come into play at the same time. We have two sides to our brain. The female side is mind/spiritual and the male side is mind/physical. It seems to be that both sides have to transcend together at the same time, in "Divine Union" with God. What we mystics seem to be doing, is transcending in "Divine Union" with only the female side, mind/spiritual. Could this be possible? Jesus took His body with Him when He left. And He seemed to indicate that what He could do we could do also. So what do you think? Love, John

And this is why some master's/mystic's physical condition may be quite bad. They leave the body out from the union. Look at Ramana for example, he had all kinds of health problems, but still he's radiant with energy. I think those mystics (especially eastern mystics) who transcend only with mind usually seems to make a false conclusion that Self is identical with God. I was close making this conclusion myself, but John and Jesus saved me. Thank you guys

If you don't mind I'll sit and you feet for awhile until I am moved to speak. Great-full you are here!

caritas, mm <*))))><

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If you don't mind I'll sit and you feet for awhile until I am moved to speak. Great-full you are here!

"I will sit and you feet." MysticalMichael, I think that you ment "at your feet". I don't think so! In this world, masters count their success by the numbers of their followers. Tuomas is not my follower, we are just friends. Sometimes this happens you know. I had an idea an he liked it. I had an idea and he tried it. But at the sametime he also teaches me.

This is what we are all up against: Revelation 11:2 "And leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty two months."

Somewhere along the line the concept of God, outside of the temple, is going to be given to the nations to tread under foot.

Luke 24:50-53 "And He led them out as far as Bethany, and he lifted up His hands and blessed them. And it came about that while He was blessing them, He parted from them. And they returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising God."

Love, John

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Originally posted by acaveyogi:
[qb] Katy the Christian Bible talks about the wonders that Christians are going to do in the last days and probably any day past, present, and future. [/qb]

John,

I agree with this.. that we are ALL Christ's hands and feet, and that we "should" be doing the same works that He did, and also that we will (as posted below) have bodies like His that will never die. This is what I teach on my web site... salvation of the whole person.

Katy

"Salvation of the whole person." Whoa Katy, that is way to cool!

Those words are the kicker! They are you know.

Jesus seem to indicate that we His followers should drink His blood and eat His flesh. On the surface that seems to be a strange thing to suggest. Jewish tradition says that you don't eat the flesh of a scrifice because it contains the sins of the person that the sacrifice was made for. Jesus as a sacrifice carried alot of sin. The sins of all of us that have and do love Him.

Yet He seems to suggest that we as his followers feed on the Body and Blood of the Son of God. There has been somethings written about how native americans thought that it was strange that Christians wanted them to, and did theirselves, eat the Christian God. And as far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong) we Christians are the only ones that eat their God.

There is another tradition that goes back so far that its origin is lost in the back woods of time. "You become what you eat."

Could the fact that we Christians eat our God be a clue to something besides just a simple blessing? Love, John

John,

I'll sit ON your feet and thy curculation will forever be cut off, as the branch is from the vine and the fig tree,
and thus thou shalt forever be accursed, and lo,
even unto the third and fourth generation, and even unto the children's children's spellchecker!

I'm thinking of taking up English as a second language.

Mystical Michael I know. That is why I have no children and never will .

Anywho my point is, being able to be occupied by the "Living Body of God" is the other part of what Jesus was teaching and the other part of His gift to us as Christians. You can not be truly occupied by the Body of Christ, through love, and your body not be changed by His presence.

Matthew 7:1-2 says, "Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standarded of measure, it will be measured to you."


John 8:48-52 "The Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?" Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. But I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. Truly truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."

"The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, "If anyone keeps My word, he shall never taste death."

Love, John

That Matthew 7:1-2 is quite a spiritual yoga science!
It makes me tremble, as a spiritual Judo-chop or Karate-kick. That one sneaks up on me like a Ninja assassin in the middle of the night!

I don't think that God is out to hurt my pride. I rather sense at times that He is out to kill it outright!

Hey Michael He is! Flat, out right "Dead"!

Welcome to the higher understandings !

Michael you moderate "transfomations" and one of them is the process of becoming "In this world, but not of this world", What you posted above is a part of that process Oh Be Wan Mystical! And for the most part this transformation is major "Ouch!" and does separate the men from the boys Love You! John

John,

Do you feel that the yogis have discovered through their many centuries of research any truths about the human predicament that may be useful to us today, from auyerveda to psychology to philosophy and maps of the mind, etc. What can we learn from yoga science?

I know you asked John, but here is what I think.

I think that yoga science can help us to better understand and measure the temple.

MysticalMichael about your question my answer would be both yes and no. The problem is that everybody who has an experience then trys to explain that experience to a given audience. Explaining something in a universal way so that all audiences can understand is practically immpossible. When I read what the yogis have written I understand what they are saying because I have experienced what they are saying. When I read some of the things that John of the Cross wrote I understand what he is saying because I have experienced what he is saying.

Michael most mystical stuff has to be experienced before it can be understood. The reason is that words are very thin out there. I is like me saying to you that "You have to forget everything that you have ever known and start over." Anyone who has ever been through the dark night/void stuff would know exactly what I ment. Those that haven't been through it would say, "What the heck does that mean and how would you do that?"

So the object becomes not so much how to explain the experience, but how to encourage others to seek the experience and to help them through the experience. Yoga Science is the same way. That is why you need a master to teach you that has arrived to where ever arrived is at. Taking a two week seminar to be licienced to teach others for twenty bucks an hour, I don't think so .

The yoga science that I studied is the Foundation Science of all yoga techniques and traditions. You read a hatha yoga book on simple hatha yoga and they tell you that this pose or series of poses stimulates this gland or that gland, this area and that area. And if the author has had training from a real master they also add that you should "feel with your mind" the area that is being stimulated by the pose or series of poses. What funny is the "feeling with the mind" is the critical aspect of the exercise. Your mind is what keeps your body and your spirit activated. What you put thought into becomes activated. The trick then becomes how do you put thought into your entire body and spirit simultaneously ? That is advanced "yoga science" and once you can do that, then the next step is to allow God to replace your thought, with His. The mind of God then maintains your spirit and body. "You can not live on bread alone!"

Have I came anywhere near answering your question Michael Love, John

Yes, John, and thank you.

I once heard the president of America Online say that building the new architecture was like reconstructing a building while tearing the older one down at the same time. I find myself alternating between learning and unlearning, apophasis and kataphasis.

When it's difficult to put into words, it must be very close to the Tao, eh!

BTW, are you fond of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Aurobindo ?

I'm just now getting into his Integral Yoga.

caritas,

mm <*)))))><