Hi Phill and everybody, my name is John Michael. My Christian ministry is to bring Jesus to yogis and those Christians who are seeking God through yoga science back to Jesus. I have spent 32 years in training and technically what I am is a Christian mystic (study through meditative prayer and love) and the yogis call people like me "a cave yogi".

Yoga means "yoked to God". Yoga Science is the science of how this is done. Some yogis claim that Jesus knew yoga science and that is why you should study it. It turns out that Jesus did know yoga science, but here is where the problem is: Jesus starts you out "Yoked to God" once you accept Him as your Lord and Savior. He does this through God's Holy Spirit. No yoga technique or tradition does this. And what most of what is being called yoga and the spin offs of it today (Kundalini Yoga is one example), are teaching is "Self Realization", which means that you are God, not one of His children.

If it is ok with Phil and you guys, and I am not out of line here somehow, I would like to discuss with you, based on my personal experience, exactly what "Yoked to God" is and why todays traditional yoga is not actually teaching it and Jesus does. Love, John

acaveyogi, as we have already met, I greet you and welcome your point-of-view. Please proceed!

caritas,

mm <*))))><

Thank you MysticalMichael9, your questions and guidance as we have a look at this is extremely welcome. Ok? And to all interested others, please feel free to participate, God speaks through all of us. Ok?

So lets start here:

Yoga, "Yoked to God":

Rule 1: You can not experience "Yoked to God" without the guidance of a master.

Rule 2: That master has to be actually physically occupied by God.

Rule 3: Good luck finding a master in todays world that is actually occupied by the physical presence of God. (Jesus said in John 10:38 "The Father is in me and and I am in the Father." there is more scripture like this, but we will start with this one.)

Jesus as a master is not only the Son of God, but he is also occupied by God and yes, He is God made flesh.

John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The word that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father "abiding" in Me does His works."

Everybody knows that the temple of God is your body. But what is not mentioned, is what actually happens to you when God actually occupies the temple that is your body and His presence is loved, honored, and worshiped from the altar of your heart. It turns out that you can not be occupied by Perfection and not become as that Perfection is.

Truly being "Yoked to God" means sharing one mind, one spirit and one body (yours) with God, through "Love".

If you are not a Christian, you come under the "Law Of Karma" and your karma has got to be straightened out before you can be occupied by the perfection that is God. As a Christian you come under the "Law of Grace". Your Karma is canceled by the Sacrifice of the Son of God. You can be occupied by God from the moment that you come out of the water, if you wish.

Comments about so far? Love, john

Someone like Thomas Keating or Bede Griffiths?

http://www.upanishad.org/en/griffiths.htm

http://www.bedegriffiths.org/meditations.asp

Yes, I believe that this knowledge can be transmitted from one person to another.

I don't know about Keating MysticalMichael, I don't think that I have read any of his stuff, but I sure like Bede Griffiths. His picture made me cry

MysticalMichael (I love your name ) yes, based on my experience information and knowledge can be transferred from one person to another. And it doesn't seem matter where either one of them are on this planet. Sometimes this exchange can be a bit disturbing if one is not expecting it I hate that part.

So MysticalMichael the question now is, "What is my axe to grind?" And that is a good and fair question. Humm?

I call myself a "yogi" and I call myself a "mystic" and I call myself a "Christian". Is my purpose to bring East and West together or is it to send East packing (and maybe West too ). As a Christian I am inclined to send East packing. As a yogi I am inclined to blend East and West. As a mystic I am inclined to say to heck with the whole thing and go for a walk and be at one with God's creation and Spirit of love.

So lets start here: I had no idea what Jesus was offering us until Shiva (Siva) and Yogananda's Babaji showed up in my kitchen and stepped me into "oneness with God". I love Shiva (The king of yogis) and Babaji (a Siddha immortal) they gave me the gift of Jesus. And they could not have done that if I had not been a Christian and came under the "Law of Grace". I have always been abit of a handful, dedicated yes, but also abit of a handful. My reality was based on power, I was a mighty yogi. The presence of God within me has over the last three years and some months changed my reality. A reality based on love and power has nothing to do with it. I am still new wine in a new wineskin but I have no power and I don't mind. God and His love is running around "unsupervised" in my life. I can't wait to see what He does next, this is way to much fun!

The problem is that there is two realities. One: God is outside of you; and Two: God actually physically occupies you. And there is two Yogas, Yoga I, and Yoga II. Yoga I, which is traditional yoga, prepares you for Yoga II. Yoga II starts when you become "Yoked to God" and God becomes your master. When this happens Yoga I disappears and ceases to exist. I spent 29 years studing that stuff and in a heart beat it was gone. With Jesus you start out with God as your master and you are trained by God's Holy Spirit from the inside out (Yoga II). Yoga I is completely by passed.

This post is getting to long! Love, John

John,

It is most likely that we speak more or less the same language. Father Thomas Keating was teacher or guru for my yoga I classes. Phil has some very good yoga II teaching which has held my interest for a long time now.

The philosophies of Asia are useful in the absence of much current teaching of Christianity from a mystical perspective. I ask myself what might be gained from Taoism, Vedanta, Zen or Mahayana traditions that can help my Christian understanding and practice.

About a year ago I deliberately avoided looking more deeply into Father Bede, but perhaps now am ready to look once again into "interspirituality."
Has Anthony DeMello been an influence for your faith journey?

caritas,

mm <*))))><

Hi John,

I like your comment: "As a Christian you come under the "Law of Grace". Your Karma is canceled by the Sacrifice of the Son of God."

That is what I believe, also. And I believe that if people are reincarnated, it is only because they have not yet accepted the Christ Life into them, and they will have to keep on coming back until they do!

Good topic.

Katy

Welcome, John. You have a fascinating story to tell with a most important message.

So lets start here: I had no idea what Jesus was offering us until Shiva (Siva) and Yogananda's Babaji showed up in my kitchen and stepped me into "oneness with God". I love Shiva (The king of yogis) and Babaji (a Siddha immortal) they gave me the gift of Jesus. And they could not have done that if I had not been a Christian and came under the "Law of Grace". I have always been abit of a handful, dedicated yes, but also abit of a handful. My reality was based on power, I was a mighty yogi. The presence of God within me has over the last three years and some months changed my reality. A reality based on love and power has nothing to do with it. I am still new wine in a new wineskin but I have no power and I don't mind. God and His love is running around "unsupervised" in my life. I can't wait to see what He does next, this is way to much fun.

These distinctions you're making are wonderful, especially the contrast between the way of power(s)/siddhis and the way of love. Perhaps the siddhis can serve the purposes of love, but it takes a truly humble soul to keep first things first.

Thank you every body for your words. Finding a place where one can be a mystic and fellowship with other Christians at the same time is in my experience extremely difficult. So thank you for making me feel welcome, being a mystic is lonely.

Katy I agree with you about reincarnation. And if I had a message about it it would be, "Reincarnation doesn't matter, because through Jesus one life time is enough." Katy please don't think me weird but I have to say this, You radiate a tremendous amount of Golden White light and heart energy as unconditional love. And you have the spirit of a child. James 1:12 "Blessed is a person who presevers under trial; for once they have been approved, they will recieve the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love Him." Katy you are wearing the "crown/wreath of life". I can see it. We start out wearing the crown/wreath of thorns that Jesus wore and over time and trial it, if we love our Lord, becomes the golden wreath of life. Katy you are loved and very special.

MysticalMichael I haven't read anything by Demello either. I have thousands and thousands of hours of meditation experience, but that is about all I have. For the most part I have no idea what is going on out there relative to other mystics. I see bits and pieces go by on message boards and thats about it. And most of what I know about "Yoga I" as experience, came from Shiva, as the king of yogis. And what I know about what is going on out there in the world of yoga and meditation, my good friend T.T.Bodhisattva has kindly brought to my attention, or I wouldn't know it either So MysticalMichael if you find something that you think I sould have a look at I will consider it a gift from the Holy Spirit. I am a mystic that has no idea what other mystics are doing.

Thank you Phil! Sharing one's mind, body and spirit with the body of Christ and God's Holy Spirit is a humbling experience, Those Boys are really big What is funny is that God starts out being a welcomed loved honored guest in your temple/house and over time your house becomes His house and you dwell in the House of the Lord forever. And what else is funny is that the Holy Spirit does all the work. He streightens out your crumby personality programming and He cleans up and streightens up and fixes up your dirty house. After awhile you start to see the hand writing on the wall and you become His guest in your own house. I love it ! Personally I think everybody aught to give it a try. Love, John

And what else is funny is that the Holy Spirit does all the work. He streightens out your crumby personality programming and He cleans up and streightens up and fixes up your dirty house. After awhile you start to see the hand writing on the wall and you become His guest in your own house. I love it.

John, I like your description of Holy Spirit. It is so true. Everytime Holy Spirt cleares something from my body I'm always amazed and surprised. What a grace, free grase we have got from our Lord Jesus Christ. John I like that you mention Trinity in a very nice way and you said "Reincarnation doesn't matter, because through Jesus one life time is enough." I like that you put Christ above everything.

Welcome John. I like what you have to say and look forward to hearing more. Jesus is my love, my life. I am eternally grateful for His mercy and compassion. I turned away from Christianity for a time in my search, only to be brought back to Christ this year. He has graced me with a greater yearning and desire for Him. I know intellectually that I already am a guest in His house; I look forward to the day of realizing that truth in each moment, with every breath.

In His Blessed Love,
Tate

John,

I remember you now. Are you still practicing Mountain Tai Chi? Delighted to see you are well!

May you find fellowship and stimulation and freindship in here! With all the backround in comparative religions and cultures which you have,
and the backround in Yoga Science, we can look forward to some rich discussion.

http://www.firelight.com.au/cave.html

http://www.thedailylama.com/Lib/024.html

Another caveyogi. I'd like to see the documentary. She's really something!

Say hi to Reverend Brian for me if you run into him, would you?

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

Thank you Grace for your welcome! I have no world without Jesus, I want no world without Jesus. I met Him when I was five years old and He introduced me to God. I always went to bed at night with my door to the hall open a small bit so that the hall light shined in. One night my mother just closed the door and I was in darkness. I threw a fit! My mother said to me, "Pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ and He will take away your fear." So I did. There are no words to explain what happened! I have never been affraid of "Darkness" since. And I didn't know who those people were, but I really wanted to be a part of what they are doing! That one prayer set my life. My life has been filled with turbulance and has been deep in ignorance, but I have never lost the desire to be a part of what those people, I met that day, were doing. Thank you Grace for your welcome. Love, John

I am sorry but I have to come back tomorrow morning. I am being abit over whelmed. John

Sorry guys I just stared crying last night and had to go compose myself.

Tate if you would like to take a small step from intellectual to the physical experience. You could try this simple meditation: Feel yourself wearing the thorn crown of Christ and feel His hands as your hands and His feet as your feet. Now when you do this and you feel your heart center kick in, that is the presence of the Holy Spirit.

MysticalMichael the problem with experiencing what she calls realizations and I call understandings is that there are no words. It is an experience and a language that is beyond words. The best that one can come up with is some thing that sounds like Zen or a parable (or something that makes no sense at all). And she is right, bliss is a trap. Power is a trap. I am (relative to yourself) is a trap. And there is this, the average person can not spend thousands and thousands of hours in meditation to achieve the higher understandings. They just don't have the time. And also it turns out that the higher understandings can also be a trap . The human mind is a seeker of understanding that fits its percieved way to understand. Sharing God's reality with God requires percieving things in a way that our minds are not trained to do. And yet our minds think that they can without this training and are pretty much set in concrete about it. You have to forget everything that you know and start over and the more you try to understand the less you understand. MysticalMichael it is a mess so you just give people some flowery words and some poetry and off they go happy in the knowledge that they now understand. The more you understand, the less you can explain it to people who want to understand. You have to experience it to understand it. And inorder to experience it you have to be physically, spiritually, and mentally occupied by God through "Love". You can do it without "Love", but if you do, it becomes an extremely terrifying experience. And one could end up permently unhinged One time when I was a young yogi I opened the door to God and I stepped into Him and He in to me. I became over whelmed with terror. Then Jesus told me to take His hand, and when I did God became "Love". Oneday when I was a young yogi Jesus asked me if I would like to see heaven I said sure. I found myself sitting in the middle of a lot of busy happy loving people. I sat very quietly because I did not want to disturb them. One of them separated themself and walked up to me and asked it I would like to help. I said sure. This person handed me a bundle and said that it was the "heart of creation" and asked me if I would hold it and give it love. So I did. After awhile my mind wondered just for and instant and the Heart of Creation turned to a beautiful young lady sitting in my lap. In that instant I was kickout of Heaven down into Paradise. When I became aware of what had happened I said excuse me to the nice people in Paradise and left.

This post is getting to long! Love, John

Thank you, John. I will try the meditation you mention.