Tate you are wecome. And if you want to have a peek at things, that meditation works.

It should be understood that if one is a Christian and they are not comfortable just yet with being physically occupied by God, that it is ok. You are still saved and "Loved" by God.

But this is what the problem is, there are Christians that want to take things one step farther. And these Christians are being told that this can only be done through Eastern Philosophy and wisdom and their masters and their meditation techniques. Is this real?

The Eastern folk claim that we western folk are too busy to truely seek God, is this real?

Is participating in and loving your church and working to feed, house and educate yourself and your kids too busy? Can one seek God and still have a back yard barbecue? Can one seek God and play soccer, baseball, and do other things with their kids and their friends? The Eastern folk say no. Their tradition says no. Nope you have to be a monk or a recluse like me. Is this real? Can one be western and still experience "Yoked to God"?

Is there a yoga for the West, that can match the East, yogi for yogi? Love, John

caveyogi, these are good questions you ask, and I will share briefly some of my thinking on these matters (I have much written on the site and forum on some of these topics)

the "yoga" for the West is faith in Christ and embracing the sufferings that ensue from traveling the way of love; we also pray that the Holy Spirit sent by Christ blesses us with gifts that effect a transformation of our nature. I think this way works for Easterners as well. That people run from this and keep themselves at "arm's length" from it through distractions and addictions is indeed the case; I do not know how common that is in the East, however.

You do not need to be a monk or recluse to attain a very high degree of union with God. All one needs is to travel the way mentioned above, which can be done through the active or lay life. Of course, one will also need to spend time in prayer, self-examination, disciplining attachments and so forth. Some are called to a monastic or eremetic vocation, but that is their pathway, and not all of them experience deep union with God.

Christianity is not really interested in siddhis (powers); we call them concommitant phenomena. We know there is a metaphysical/psychic dimension to our human nature, and that these powers can be developed through certain disciplines, but we give no emphasis to this. When one comes upon them on the spiritual journey, it does not change the focus of faith and love in Christ. If they persist, then one uses them as guided by the Spirit.

All that said, I think there can be much value in certain Eastern disciplines, especially those that
- help us to recognize attachments and let them go
- live more mindfully
- integrate the body with mind and spirit
- grow in appreciation of the interdependence of all creation in God
Just so long as we don't lose our faith perspective, there should be no problem.

Phil you mentioned siddhis. I think that in siddha yoga (as it was practiced by Babaji and Tamil Siddhas) the greatest siddhi is considered to be able to be physically occupied by God. Siddha yogis were mystics who searched for God outside of traditions, rituals and scriptures. They also believed in immortality, which is one of the effects of the transformation activated by union with God.

I see the possibility that teachings of Jesus are continuation to what Siddha yogis did. Jesus offered us easier path to become siddhas just like acaveyogi said that Jesus starts you out "Yoked to God" once you accept Him as your Lord and Savior. Then the process is fueled by Grace and goes on without effort and all you can do is just to go with it.

In my case I feel a need to live more eastern type of life, but I don't see it necessary for all. I rather see my need to live simple and meditative yogi life as an act of grace of God. Some things are just falling off from my life and things are becoming more simple. I feel guided to live this way at the moment and others may be guided to different ways of living.

T.T., what you share makes sense. The important thing is for one to travel the pathway that is right for them. As the decades roll on, I think we'll see more and more people benefiting from the riches in different spiritual traditions. It's interesting to hear how you, caveyogi and others are doing so.

How do you find "yoga science" contributing to your growth in Christ? I know that's a big question, but maybe you and others could say something about that.

John:

Katy I agree with you about reincarnation. And if I had a message about it it would be, "Reincarnation doesn't matter, because through Jesus one life time is enough." Katy please don't think me weird but I have to say this, You radiate a tremendous amount of Golden White light and heart energy as unconditional love. And you have the spirit of a child. James 1:12 "Blessed is a person who presevers under trial; for once they have been approved, they will recieve the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love Him." Katy you are wearing the "crown/wreath of life". I can see it. We start out wearing the crown/wreath of thorns that Jesus wore and over time and trial it, if we love our Lord, becomes the golden wreath of life. Katy you are loved and very special.

Katy:
What can I say, but thank you, John.

This is a very interesting thread and after I get caught up and read it all I hope to participate more. BTW, I have been very interested in yoga most of my life.

:-)

"One time when I was a young yogi I opened the door to God and I stepped into Him and He in to me. I became over whelmed with terror. Then Jesus told me to take His hand, and when I did God became "Love". Oneday when I was a young yogi Jesus asked me if I would like to see heaven I said sure. I found myself sitting in the middle of a lot of busy happy loving people. I sat very quietly because I did not want to disturb them. One of them separated themself and walked up to me and asked it I would like to help. I said sure. This person handed me a bundle and said that it was the "heart of creation" and asked me if I would hold it and give it love. So I did. After awhile my mind wondered just for and instant and the Heart of Creation turned to a beautiful young lady sitting in my lap. In that instant I was kickout of Heaven down into Paradise."

Even in sin, or how we separate from God, we are in the midst of grace! Good reminder that Christ is inside our longings.

Katy one of the greatest wisdoms is the advice to, "Breathe!" It is funny how something so simple can be so awesome. You are loved! John

W. C. I agree with your wisdom!

Phil I don't know what to say. You know way more than I do about what is going on out there in todays world of Christanity and in todays world of metaphysics and mysticism. So being able to bounce my stuff off of you (and the others of this message board) is a treasured gift and a reality orientation experience for me. And if my "mesh" seems to get abit drifty, please forgive me. I have no desire to create turbulance or dispence misinformation. To be honest with you nobody else is saying what I am saying. And what I am saying is abit radical realitive to the convention and tradition of both todays Christainity and Eastern philosophy. It just is.

And nobody in their right mind would attempt to do what I am attempting to do. I am preaching the other part of the Gospel of Christ. The fact that I am a yogi actually has nothing to do with it. That part of my training is just so that I can talk to yogis and Christians who want to be yogis.

Revelation 11:1 Is basically the foundation to what I am up to: "And there was give me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone told me to measure the temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it." The temple is our bodies, the altar is our heart, and what that fellow is measuring is the physiological changes from a medical science stand point that occur in the human body when it is actually occupied by God and His presence is worshipped from the altar of one's heart.

There is a bunch of scripture that supports this concept in different ways if we want to have a look at them. But the truth is, I have to be a living example of what I am preaching. Other wise I am doing our Lord a disservice. Some where along the line medical science is going to study me to see if I am real and they are going to find over time that I am. Until then I probably should not be here. Love, John

acaveyogi,

When you refer to the "other part of the gospel", what exactly are you saying?

Katy

Phil, you asked about what paths people are in and their experience. I am like T.T. and am on a more eastern path. i find it very rich and fullfilling. I still have a family and kids, but i keep it simple. every action throughout the day is tried to be done with "mindfullness" that is taught in zen budhism. when emotions and thoughts pop up, jnana yoga is practiced by witnessing and questioning where the thought, action or idea came from. bhakti yoga is practiced throughout the day by praying and surrendering to Jesus and the life I was given. I started out fundamental christian and jesus led me to a realized guru to traverse the kundalini path once it was opened. I owe Jesus everything I am...when I accepted Jesus into my heart, he became my "internal guru" that led me to the external guru that shows the pitfalls and guides me in daily practice. I have never been over to the east, so i am not 100% their attitude their, but the advice i was given and was taught, was to be IN this world, and not OF this world. this means not to get caught up in materialism, but find God in everything. Another thing I was taught was not to "transcend" this life by rebuking it. This life is a gift...and to use your time by showing gratitude to the creator and make every day a living sadhana in appreciation. this opens the heart for the holy spirit to move, as well as slows the mind to live in the moment. I am now not so closed minded when it comes to other people's beliefs and religions. My heart continues to open and balance remains....

Katy the Christian Bible talks about the wonders that Christians are going to do in the last days and probably any day past, present, and future. There are two realities and this is what we are up against: We are all the children of God. We can all be gods in creation. Does what we do actully come from God or from us? When you call lightening down from Heaven, God is in Heaven. When God calls lightening down from Heaven, He is in you. Without you, why would He be here? Love, John

Everybody on this message board wants to, in their heart, have a relationship with God. Everybody! Everybody is seeking clues about how this can be done. And the world is full of clues about how this can be done (in the perfect sense of course). My version until proven, is just an interesting (or not) version. "Shalom Place Discussion Board" is filled with loving people who love God. I have spent amost four years fighting my way through the internet with information that I feel is real and guided by God to deliver and I have never found anybody like you. You are real! People who actully love God and trulely love God.

Jesus (my version) asked me to go talk to Christians. I said, "No!" He referred me to the Book of Jonah. Guys I am just a "version" and thank you for letting me nest here for a moment. You are "way!" gentler that anyplace that I have ever been. You guys are loved! John

John,

Let me run this one by you if I may. Ken Wilber prefers a higherarchy of mystical experience, beginning with Emerson as an example of Nature Mysticism, Theresa of Avila as an example of Diety
Mysticism, Eckhardt as an example of Formless Mysticism and at the pinnacle the Non-Dual Mysicism
of Maharshi.

David Hawkins, on the other hand, calibrates Saint Theresa, Eckhardt and Ramana Maharshi at the same level of truth. How would you account for this?

From where I sit, Divine Union a la Theresa and John of the Cross would be as high as one could hope for as a Beatific Vision.

You are entitled, of course, to reframe the entire question and likely have done so already.

caritas,

mm <*))))><

Well I can compare what John teaches to what Ramana Maharishi taught from my personal experience. I have some kind of special relationship with Ramana and I've actually had two encounters with him. Few years ago I was very deep into this advaita vedanta (non-dual) stuff and did self-enquiry meditation all day and night seven days a week. The only thing I was really interested in was to experience what Ramana Maharshi and folks call Self-realization or enlightenment. I felt trapped inside my life and only way out was to have this experience.

Then everybody was saying that you need a teacher who can transmit you the experience. Well one time when I was meditating I prayed for help from God,spirit guides, buddhas, bodhisattvas and saints and suddenly Ramana Maharshi appeared in a vision. What I then experienced was a transmission of spiritual force from Ramana and I had an incredible awakening experience. All the stuff I had read about enlightenment became suddenly a living reality. Well it was temporary, but it totally changed my life of spiritual seeking. From that point on I began to have more and more different types of awakenings and I also had a one more encounter with Ramana in a dream state.

Well then at one point I felt Jesus calling me and I was lead to John. John made me really understand the teachings of Jesus. Soon I was experiencing the union with God through Jesus and it was quite different than what I had experienced before. This was totally beyond everything. My personal opinion is that this is the highest possible union/relationship with God. I had this conclusion because, the dream state encounter I had with Ramana indicated that I was having the same experience with him. And I had thought that Ramana's state is the highest, but then I really got to know Jesus and the experience was beyond what I had experienced with Ramana.

I like calling the sum of my previous experiences during my advaita vedanta/jnana yoga period a zen enlightenment experience, because I think some writings of zen masters seemed to reflect my experience the best. I think I was then already having temporary experiences of union with God, but without knowing it and that is what brought a bit taste of zen to it. It was kind of godless union with God.

Well that is my experience and in my opinion Jesus is the greatest master who brings you to the deepest possible relationship and union with God.

After a kundalini death-like experience that left me frightened and confused, Ramana Maharshi's consciousness appeared to me. For several mornings in a row, upon first awakening when I wasn't quite fully awake, I would see pictures (photographs) of a few men I didn't know. These photos were intriguing and I kept wondering who they were. Finally, after a few days, I was surfing the internet for spiritual sites and saw one of the photos. It was exactly the photo I had seen upon awakening. It was of Papaji, one of Ramana's disciples. From that website, I also found another exact photo, which was that of Ramana. The last one I found was of a living disciple of Papaji's. I emailed him explaining my experience. He was to be visiting Asheville, NC (this being near my home) within the month, and he invited me to Satsang. In spite of my fear of cults (because I grew up in one) my curiosity was really peaked, plus inner guidance said to go. He was a very loving and gentle man and I felt safe for the first time in a long time. I had a heart awakening during a meditation with him, and experienced a feeling that I was home.

I was involved for several years with advaita teachers, most being disciples of Ramana. Thankfully, they were all loving and gentle souls. Just what my life needed. The experiences with them though were mostly a quieting of the mind and a feeling of spaciousness. I had many purification experiences with kundalini after being with them. These were difficult times physically and mentally for me because I just didn't have an understanding of what was happening so I often resisited to the detriment of my physical and mental health.

Through a particularly difficult time, Jesus came to me again (he was my first spiritual encounter) and I felt strongly drawn to Him. The Holy Spirit felt like it was cooling to my system. I had felt on fire for so long. During one meditation, I began focusing on His blood. I intuitively knew to ask for the cleansing and purification of His blood. And with the experience of that, I fell in Love with Jesus all over again. Once during meditation, the thought that He was Supreme and every spirit that did not confess His name was not of God. A deep knowing of the truth of this began to grow in me. My body began to shake vigorously. I felt blocks opening all throughout my system. Since then, I put away all pictures, books and items of eastern origin. I feel drawn to Christ alone. He is my Life. I am truly grateful and intuitively know that I have always belonged to Him.

In His Love,
Tate