quote:

It's when one pushes ahead "on one's own," as though to try to "open higher chakras," or "be enlightened" or something like that -- then the psycho-physiological phenomena might not be so pleasant. Quite the contrary! Psyche and body will receive an overflow from an imbalanced spirit, and will reflect that accordingly. That's been the case in most unpleasant K phenomena I've come across, along with those times when "junk" is being cleansed from one's system.

Phil...I can most definitely attest to that! Sheesh...

Nice post

Thanks, Les, for your sharing and insight. Yes, the phenomena are not something most people can relate to let alone accept. With the exception of this forum, I keep most k stuff to myself. The ocean sounds I feel comes from my head/ears when the third eye pressure extends outward more strongly.

Phil, vedically speaking, spiritual experiences are also generally considered to be a positive part of a spiritually oriented life, but Yoga alway stresses proper physical and moral preparation, discernment, and non-clinging when interpreting such phenomena. Thus, true spiritual experiences are considered the result of the inner electricity (Shakti) that get activated by cultivating “sattva” (truth, balance, perception) through healthy lifestyle, disciplined mind and spiritual practices, allowing access to higher forms of perception, stronger forms of prana, deep feeling and direct knowing, as well as various kinds of samadhi, that many people on the site have attested to. They fall under the rubric of “kundalini experiences” but require proper discernment to determine if they come from body, mind or spirit, and even if they are genuine spiritual experiences, they might not be part of a kundalini awakening. Mostly Ayurveda/ Yoga focuses on finding balance or healing of body and mind so that we can develop spiritually.

In any case, each of the three bodies (physical, astral/subtle, causal) plus the Transcendent have an 1) energetic quality, 2) light quality, and others such as composition, guna, state of being and level of consciousness associated with them. Of note, regarding the experiences I mentioned:

Gross/Subtle/Causal/Transcendant

1) elemental/electrical/magnetism in action /pure magnetism

2) heat/lightning/light in manifestation /pure light

My classmate who was electrocuted, I believe was sensitized or quite literally had her switch turned on to the subtle realm—a kind of shaktipat. She is a very spiritually oriented, lovely human being, who has one of the most amazing story of divine intervention I have ever heard, in addition to having overcome so many difficulties in her life. I wonder now if the electricity did more activating than just the qi sensitizing.

The subtle and causal are often lumped together, so perhaps the vibration leads to attraction. I know the first time I noticed a surge in vibration was when I read an email about a talk on Julian of Norwich. Initially, I wasn’t planning to go, but the vibration prompted me to sign up. Maybe I should pay more attention where it attracts me.

Bhakti yoga (surrender and devotion to God) and Jnana yoga (Knowledge, Self-inquiry done with the inner mind and heart, not outer mind-intellect/senses) are considered the two paths that unfold the process of Self-realization. Bhakti is inspiration driven and includes chanting, singing praises, rituals, meditation on icons, relationship with God, etc. but requires purity, self-sacrifice and consecration. When we strive to give love through devotion, more love comes to us, and love is that state of overflowing fullness, which exists already within us. So, I suppose that a night of pouring out love after Eucharistic adoration can be seen in that context. (From my perspective, I was focusing more on kenosis so that God can fill me with more of Him.) I haven’t come across notions of consolation in my Vedic studies just the all encompassing God’s grace as reason for everything.

quote:

Originally posted by acuveda:
My classmate who was electrocuted, I believe was sensitized or quite literally had her switch turned on to the subtle realm—a kind of shaktipat. She is a very spiritually oriented, lovely human being, who has one of the most amazing story of divine intervention I have ever heard, in addition to having overcome so many difficulties in her life. I wonder now if the electricity did more activating than just the qi sensitizing.

Hmmm...interesting. I've also had issues with electricity in all it's forms. From my own story...

"I have always been somewhat overly sensitive to others’ emotions and had a rather dicey relationship with electricity and other forms of energy. Shortly after learning to walk, mom had unplugged the percolator coffee pot, and being curious about all things electrical, I grabbed the cord to the coffeepot and proceeded to walk away from the counter, pulling the freshly brewed mixture off the counter and spilling it on my back resulting in rather serious burns that required a fair bit of care. Amazingly, there are only a few minor scars which even I have a hard time finding these days. About a year later I remember wondering what would happen if I inserted a car key into a light socket, then the shock and noticing my arm had turned black, but no lasting injury. At times I noticed that I would get the heebie-jeebies just traveling around, and eventually realized that it occurred when I was in close proximity to strong electric currents. The worst was when we’d drive under transmission lines, especially if it was foggy. If I was walking or jogging and it was foggy or raining, I simply couldn’t will myself to pass underneath the lines because I could feel the electricity reaching. The stories go on about my adventures with the juice, including some close calls with lightning, grabbing the wrong end of a dryer pigtail, having electricity jump from my shoulder to a computer monitor when I was working on the CPU, getting jolted when picking up a computer cable laying on a concrete floor (no electricity is supposed to be CAT5 cable), knocking out a server array because it flashed when I connected, etc. Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) machines are also interesting. A few years ago I was walking down the hall in our local hospital when all of a sudden I felt like I was going to pass out...but I kept walking and it shortly cleared. Then when I walked back down the hall to return to the waiting room it happened again. After it happened a few more times I noticed that when it did happen I was walking past the Imaging department. I’ve noticed some similarities when flying due to the electromagnetic presences generated, although these tend to be less intense. Prolonged exposure does leave me exhausted though."

I don't know if it's just correlative, or causative, but definitely curious.

Interesting, Les. I’d be curious to know your Ayurvedic constitution (dosha) as it factors in how we react to our environment. Are you familiar with them?

In a similar vein, I came across some interesting “energetic” therapies used in conventional medicine that might be fun to speculate on in light of the recent thread in terms of healing and building up. If anything, they are another example of the generative principle of the other in Yin/Yang theory. Perhaps the k vibrations serves to heal and build up the yin structure at the various levels:


Pulsed electromagnetic fields (PEMFs) have been available as bone-growth stimulators for 20 years, although they have just recently become the standard of care for post-traumatic-delayed union bone fractures. PEMF therapy is noninvasive, cost-effective and free of complications. Bone healing is thought to occur in response to the electromagnetic energy. In animal models, PEMF therapy produced favorable results in bone healing and surgical repair.

and:

Dynamic motion therapy is a drug-free way to halt bone loss and grow new bone, which would ultimately reduce fracture incidence. It’s delivered via a platform that transmits high frequency, low-intensity mechanical forces through the patient’s feet and up through the skeleton. Patients are instructed to stand on the platform at least five days per week for 20 minutes each day. Several countries throughout the world approve dynamic motion therapy for building bone mass. This therapy is currently approved in the U.S. where it’s marketed as a way of maintaining muscle mass. Ongoing studies seek approval for using it to enhance bone mineral density and prevent osteoporosis fractures. The underlying theory of dynamic motion therapy is that bone is sensitive to mechanical stimulus and can adapt its structure to become denser and stronger when functional demands are placed on it. Recent research studies have demonstrated increases in bone mineral density in young women and in postmenopausal women. Another term used for a similar procedure is Whole Body Vibration Therapy. This therapy induces fast and short changes in the muscles and fiber tendons of the body. The resultant strain on the body causes the body to become stronger. This concept is very similar to weight-bearing exercises on the bones.

quote:

Interesting, Les. I’d be curious to know your Ayurvedic constitution (dosha) as it factors in how we react to our environment. Are you familiar with them?

It's been awhile since I've checked, so I took one of the tests. It came back...

Pitta - 46%
Kapha - 42%
Vata - 12%

I never went too deep into the science though, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

BTW, our gym got one of those machines early on...had it for a few months. It did wonders for draining my sinuses

Thanks for your sharing, acuveda and Les. I'm familiar (from reading) with the yogic paths mentioned, and have often seen others -- Raja and Karma -- described as well. There are parallels with the Catholic understanding of active and contemplative vocations, but I think the yogic insights are more precise and attuned to basic human temperamental differences. It also seems that no one fits completely into one pathway -- we are all drawn to devotion, study, insight, service, etc. -- but that temperament influences which we will give most emphasis to. I've definitely been more on the Jnana/Raja pathway, with Bhakti and Karma holding up the rear. _

Acuveda, if you don't mind my continuing questions, how do you understand the Holy Spirit in comparison to the Hindu understanding of kundalini? You're in a unique position to say something about these matters.

quote:

Acuveda, if you don't mind my continuing questions, how do you understand the Holy Spirit in comparison to the Hindu understanding o

f kundalini?

Phil,

This is an interesting topic and one I've struggled with for some time.

RE: John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Question: From a biblical perspective, does the Word = the Holy Spirit?

I've come across opinions and a posit or two, but haven't found a direct reference biblically.

Les, in Christian theology, "the Word" is understood to be the 2nd Person of the Trinity Who takes to himself a human soul with the Incarnation: Jesus. "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." (Jn. 1:14).

The Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person of the Trinity.

Les, you can find The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1995 ed.) online and learn more about basic Christian teachings there. Or, better yet, buy a good hardback edition. It's an excellent reference.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Les, in Christian theology, "the Word" is understood to be the 2nd Person of the Trinity Who takes to himself a human soul with the Incarnation: Jesus. "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." (Jn. 1:14).

The Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person of the Trinity.

That I understand. What I'm asking is... biblically speaking, what is the intelligent essence of all life... that which gives plants, animals, all living things... life? It's the same intense energy one feels in the nether regions that drives us to procreate, to release, that is persistent to all life... forces life to reach? Is that not also the Word? ...which God put forth in the creation of all things causal?

quote:

Les, you can find The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1995 ed.) online and learn more about basic Christian teachings there. Or, better yet, buy a good hardback edition. It's an excellent reference.

Cool...I'll check it out.

quote:

Originally posted by Les:

quote:

Interesting, Les. I’d be curious to know your Ayurvedic constitution (dosha) as it factors in how we react to our environment. Are you familiar with them?

Pitta - 46%
Kapha - 42%
Vata - 12%

Acuveda,

After mulling over a few of my previous answers, I retook the test. The results modified a bit...

Pitta - 37%
Kapha - 52%
Vata - 11%

...which also fits the descriptions better, especially where lung/sinus congestion is concerned.

Les, actually it's just really impossible to divide the Trinity into parts, whereby one of the Persons does this, another does that ("ad-extra" rule in theology). What any one of them does, God does. But in salvation history, it is the Word who becomes incarnate, and the Spirit who is breathed anew on the human race through the incarnate Word.

God is the creator and source of all things, including life and its energy. A traditional understanding has been to recognize a "natural" level of creation, and that would include life. So, for a human, we would say that the human soul orders matter in such manner that the energy at work in a human being nourishes the body, enlivens the psyche and empowers the human spirit (awareness, intellect, will). So you might call this "natural life," or bios as Scripture does. On its own, it eventually runs down, and because of sin, its operations are disordered. The infusion of supernatural life zoe into a soul through faith merges with bios to restore it and order it anew:

quote:

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
- Rm. 8:10-11

Kind of sounds like kundalini, doesn't it?

quote:

Kind of sounds like kundalini, doesn't it?

Yes. That's where I was headed

Some writings make it confusing such as EU's posit...

“When love has carried us above all things into the Divine Dark, there we are transformed by the Eternal Word Who is the image of the Father; and as the air is penetrated by the sun, thus we receive in peace the Incomprehensible Light, enfolding us, and penetrating us. Where Underhill struck new ground was in her insistence that this state of union produced a glorious and fruitful creativeness, so that the mystic who attains this final perfectness is the most active doer – not the reclusive dreaming lover of God”.

For me, the experience of Kundalini is like an ethereal fire (Holy Spirit) that originates initially from the base of the spine, but over time I've come to experience it as originating from below my feet and completely envelopes me to extend beyond my head. It's a constant these days, though it does become significantly more intense during contemplation.

In the biblical accounts of the receiving of the Spirit (as in Acts 2), the tongues of fire are usually represented as coming from above, resting above the head. At Jesus' baptism by John, the Spirit descends like a dove.

The symbolism here is pretty clear: supernatural life (zoe) is from above; natural life (bios) inheres from below (earth, feet, base of spine).

But if bios is en-Spirited, then that could be the origin or source of the kundalini experience.

Otoh, there's the possibility that bios can be intensified through meditative methods that are not especially open to zoe or Spirit with similar phenomena ensuing. E.g., when I do pranayama breathing, there is unquestionably a quickening of the energy, but I don't attribute this to the action of the Holy Spirit.

“Acuveda, if you don't mind my continuing questions, how do you understand the Holy Spirit in comparison to the Hindu understanding of kundalini?”

First let me preface this with the acknowledgement of the limitations of relating concepts that are constructed within and dependent on such diverse frameworks of understanding.

To clarify terms, shakti, prana, and kundalini are all used almost interchangeably in the Vedic tradition, stemming from the monistic notion of “sameness”, though it is more sameness of essence than the notion of “equal to”, but still lends in all but two sects of shaivism to a reductionist erasure of distinctions in Hinduism. Thus, one comes across “kundalini shakti”, “Prana”, with a capital P, referring to the all activity of the universe, or small p for activity in the body, or breath, with kundalini shakti as the energy of consciousness which unfolds the higher spiritual potential in a comprehensive way (physical, psychological and spiritual). Using that familiar Hindu analogy, they are all Shakti, just like steam, ice and snow are all water.

The term that I have seen most associated with the HS in interfaith discussions is not so much kundalini but Shakti since it is the more encompassing term, including a religious connotation. Kundalini-like phenomena seems more like “activity” in charismatics circles. Can we say in Christianity that the HS is the uncreated dynamic energy behind all creation, whether it be the expansion of the universe, evolution of all life on earth, our individual life from birth to death and all the processes of the body, our spiritual life—kundalini awakening style or otherwise?

I think so even if traditional Judeo-Christian referential terminology is breath of life, wind, breath, fire, outpouring, flow, love between, communication, relationship, consoler, advocate, sanctifier, fruits and gifts of, awakening, renewal, etc. Hinduism would definitely see these as the work of Shakti. The conflicting beliefs surface more in that Shakti is both manifest and unmanifest. As soon as we get to the manifest part….

In essence though, I don’t see that the two traditions are profoundly refuting each other here; rather, I find that Christianity focuses more on the nature and effects of the HS in spiritual life and relationship with God, while Hinduism has a much more integrated and well articulated understanding of cosmic relationships, with ayurveda and yoga focusing on body and mind respectively and their part in spiritual development (or lack thereof). They certainly fill a gap in the Christian model.

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, acuveda. I will think on this one awhile, then get back to you.

Peace, Phil