quote:

Something else is occurring besides this and beside seeing my issues in the outer world. This is an
experience of experiencing another's suffering as if it is my own. There does not seem to be any other type of knowing except with my husband. I do not need to know the person for this to occur.

Hi Mary Sue
that is what I mean when I say we see the light of emotion shining.
Let's say we stand at the bus stop next to an angry person (which we do not know) and suddenly we feel flooded with anger. There is no real way of telling where this anger comes from.

It started to happen to me 20 years ago and at the beginning I always thought that every emotion I was feeling was my own. But over the years I have learnt to discern this.

One way of telling is to ask yourself, 'was I angry before I stood next to this person?'. If the answer is no then I am likely to pick things up from others.

I pick emotions up from others all the time - it's a way of life now for me and does not cause me any bigger problems. I used to go to a psychic development group for some time and there I had ample opportunity to test myself by asking others whether my perceptions were correct (they usually are).

As I have said several times before I feel the best protection to not feel invaded or soiled by these perceptions is to have an attitude of love and compassion.

You say for you the best protection is the eucharist. I totally agree - by merging with the divine we are 'tuning in' to their compassion and power and that is the best and highest form of spiritual practice (in my opinion) and the best protection as well.

Let me know your thoughts

Tara KundaliniTherapist

quote:

I pick emotions up from others all the time - it's a way of life now for me and does not cause me any bigger problems.

I can relate to this, Tara.

I finally had to give up doing therapy with alcoholics/drug addicts and their families because, at the end of the day, I was so polluted with their negative energy that I was exhausted (though not depressed; my own awareness was still free). Sometimes it would take long periods of prayer, with coughing and retching, to detox. Then back into the mess the next day . . . over and over. That was years ago. I have let my substance abuse counseling license lapse.

Now, however, I still wonder where some of the pain and struggle I experience comes from. It's easy enough to understand the problems that ensue from my own imbalances and excesses, or from interactions with others. There are other times, however, when I feel I am given a share of the suffering of the human race to feel, pray with, and transform. I understand this to be a sharing in the cross of Christ and one way in which he continues to minister to the race. Never is my spiritual awareness, mind and will dragged into the muck; it's not even emotional -- more pranic, even physical. Hard to explain. Very painful, at times, but not unbearably so (though I would happily be rid of it). I think of St. Paul's "thorn in the flesh" (2 Cor. 12:7-10) and wonder if it's not a kind of sharing in the cross of Christ for the sake of the human race? There is peace when I take this perspective, but no clear answers. Nothing to do but entrust it to God's care and hope some good comes from it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:


Hi Mary Sue
cut...

As I have said several times before I feel the best protection to not feel invaded or soiled by these perceptions is to have an attitude of love and compassion.

You say for you the best protection is the eucharist. I totally agree - by merging with the divine we are 'tuning in' to their compassion and power and that is the best and highest form of spiritual practice (in my opinion) and the best protection as well.

Let me know your thoughts"



Thank you for your response Tara. Being able to talk about this a bit is helping me to start to see things in a different light.

What you write is part of it. The other part is that it becomes my issue (suffering) so to speak. I don't have another way to say this at this time. When it,
the suffering, clears from me something within the other person's suffering is removed or lessened. This has occurred also with the Earth. I walked on a piece of land and experienced # 10 pain in my body for a time while God cleared something away & before the pain went away.

I don't see my role as sending love ect. to another. At least emotional love. I think some of this is about not fearing the depths of human suffering or the depths of my own. I don't believe this is about finding protection except in my relationship with God/The Trinity.

I also see Shasha suggestion about being very structured in my practices right now very important. She was right on cause i'm still working my way back into Christianity.

But right now i'm where i am & often see this as a burden. This has brought me to wonder about the cross that Jesus is carrying so willingly.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
cut...
There are other times, however, when I feel I am given a share of the suffering of the human race to feel, pray with, and transform. I understand this to be a sharing in the cross of Christ and one way in which he continues to minister to the race. Never is my spiritual awareness, mind and will dragged into the muck; it's not even emotional -- more pranic, even physical. Hard to explain. Very painful, at times, but not unbearably so (though I would happily be rid of it). I think of St. Paul's "thorn in the flesh" (2 Cor. 12:7-10) and wonder if it's not a kind of sharing in the cross of Christ for the sake of the human race? There is peace when I take this perspective, but no clear answers. Nothing to do but entrust it to God's care and hope some good comes from it.

Yes, Yes, Yes. Thank you for sharing Phil

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:


Hi Phil
this goes again into some theological discrepancies, which I hope won't upset anybody. But as I am invited to share my point of view I will :

Hi Tara:
Thank you so much for sharing as much as you have here from your personal experience & point of view. The sharing is very valuable for me. I've felt so weird, so different.

I have not heard another talk about the need
for a semi retreat like life. To not want to chit chat & only want to be with a select few.
I thought there was something wrong with me for not being able to be out in the world more.

I shared what you wrote with my husband. I have been saying these things for a long time but it has been difficult for us as a couple to come to terms with.

My needs are very different from my husbands & have made our relationship difficult and relationships with other couples difficult. My partner is very social. If you care to share what do you say to others about your lifestyle.
What do you say to your children & partner.


After reading your last reply to Phil i have
been considering what you both have written.
About a month ago I told God I did not want to live this way anymore. I've had alot more energy. And i've been looking internally & am finding some issues to look at.

I understand more about what you are saying with sending love to others. Again, being able to talk about this is really helping me to see myself in a different light. And thanks for your willingness to say things more than once. Sometimes i need to go through some layers to understand.



Tara wrote:

"I feel that kundalini awakening is an invitation to own our power. Kundalini IS power and we are invited to use it responsibly. All the supernatural powers like spiritual healing, bilocation and levitation are only possible through the power of kundalini.

So, I feel it is important to see that we have choices - we do not have to share in the suffering of others but we can and we may want to. In Tibetan Buddhism there is one important practice called Tonglen, where you consciously breathe in all the suffering of others and breathe out healing. I think one should only practice this meditation if one has a strong sense of overflow - so that you really have the surplus to give. It should not be a duty.

My own choice around this topic is to withdraw a lot. It is what my teachers have advised and when you look into the life stories of many spiritual people it's what most of them do. It takes time to adjust to the heightened sensitivity of kundalini and at times you can feel like an alien in a human body.

I have been living in semi-retreat for over 10 years, only rarely leaving the house and having contact with only a very select few. I love to work with my clients or to talk about spirituality like on this forum but I have no interest in meaningless chit chat. On the rare occasions that I do go out I only go to places that do not disturb my energy. "

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mary Sue,

quote:

Hi Tara:
Thank you so much for sharing as much as you have here from your personal experience & point of view. The sharing is very valuable for me. I've felt so weird, so different.

I have not heard another talk about the need
for a semi retreat like life. To not want to chit chat & only want to be with a select few.
I thought there was something wrong with me for not being able to be out in the world more.

I shared what you wrote with my husband. I have been saying these things for a long time but it has been difficult for us as a couple to come to terms with.

My needs are very different from my husbands & have made our relationship difficult and relationships with other couples difficult. My partner is very social. If you care to share what do you say to others about your lifestyle.
What do you say to your children & partner.

Hi Mary Sue
I am glad you find some benefit in my thoughts.
Please do not think there is something wrong with you, although I do understand that this thought may creep in - we are becoming very different under the influence of kundalini.

How I integrated kundalini:
My husband and son are both very spiritual and not particularly social - so there is no conflict there. (But we do work extensively on the love and harmony in our little family unit)

My biggest conflict was on my need to work and the need to live in a quiet countryside setting. As a therapist I really should live in a bigger city in order to get enough clients. But the multitude of noises of neighbours (shouting, loud music etc. etc.)is intolerable for my sensitive mind.

So, after being torn apart by this conflict for a considerable amount of time I learnt to develop my website (very hard work) and now get all my clients through the internet. Half a year ago we moved into an isolated house in the middle of nowhere. Oh, how I relish the silence and the nature around me. (It's not so easy to find a house like this in overcrowded England)

I found that the resolution of this conflict co-incided with the development of the corresponding chakras, which was very satisfying for me to observe.

So, for the moment my kundalini integration works well. Let's see what happens next.

Tara KundaliniTherapist

quote:

Originally posted by myfutureself:
Believe it or not, union with Christ is not the goal of Christianity.

This is a good question. I will start a new thread on what the goal of Christianity is.

quote:

The problem I've always had with working with my chakras is that, through the practice, I had a tendency to objectify the processes that were going on, and it seemed to inflate my ego to a point that the practice became an unhelpful distraction. But that's me, and I'm a Christian. I can't be sure if that's what happens to everyone, or if that's just what happens to me, because of my own unique set of complexes and neuroses that I've battled, and continue to battle. I really don't know. But I do know that there are a lot of folks out there who are better at doing things methodically than I am, and so I can't be sure the same exercises wouldn't serve them well.

Tara, is this something you encounter and address in your therapy and teachings? That is, the objectification of one's spirituality. I'm sure I can't be the only one who this has happened to.

Hi Paul
I don't know what you mean by 'objectification of one's spirituality'. Can you explain, maybe give a practical example?

I do know what you mean about chakra work leading to the inflation of the ego. This is a very real and common danger and it is the main reason why in Tibetan Buddhism these practices are not taught publicly. I can only applaud your wisdom of noticing this danger and withdraw.

Are you anonymously enough to share your experiences? Typical experiences of getting too much kundalini and bliss in the chakras are sudden bouts of anger, feelings of superiority and megalomaniac ideas.

The best safeguard against these pitfalls is to have a strong practice of loving kindness and also a good sense of humour. When our ego becomes inflated we can actually have fun with it by using all this exuberant energy to laugh about ourselves and entertain others in the process. (Works for me all the time )

The more self-critical you are the better you are safe-guarded against these problems but I know plenty of people who are not at all self-critical and just go along with these inflated ideas. This is where the spiritual teacher/director comes in as a most urgently needed person who gets us back to reality.

Tara KundaliniTherapist

quote:

Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:

Hi Paul
I don't know what you mean by 'objectification of one's spirituality'. Can you explain, maybe give a practical example?

I do know what you mean about chakra work leading to the inflation of the ego. This is a very real and common danger and it is the main reason why in Tibetan Buddhism these practices are not taught publicly. I can only applaud your wisdom of noticing this danger and withdraw.

Are you anonymously enough to share your experiences? Typical experiences of getting too much kundalini and bliss in the chakras are sudden bouts of anger, feelings of superiority and megalomaniac ideas.

The best safeguard against these pitfalls is to have a strong practice of loving kindness and also a good sense of humour. When our ego becomes inflated we can actually have fun with it by using all this exuberant energy to laugh about ourselves and entertain others in the process. (Works for me all the time )

The more self-critical you are the better you are safe-guarded against these problems but I know plenty of people who are not at all self-critical and just go along with these inflated ideas. This is where the spiritual teacher/director comes in as a most urgently needed person who gets us back to reality.

Tara KundaliniTherapist

I guess what I'm referring to is that I would start to think of my spiritual state as something I can manipulate and then use as some kind of tool in order to further the goals of the ego. This is both the "objectification" part and the ego-inflation part, as this usually, as you stated can happen, leads to bouts of megalomania and an inflated sense of self-importance and superiority. For me, it also would lead to inconsistencies in my spiritual practice and energy work that in effect sabotaged any progress I might have been able to make. This is likely because I didn't have a teacher that could give me guidance and feedback in the process. It didn't really lead to bouts of anger so much as frustration in my inability to see real growth in myself.

What works for me is steady devotion to the Blessed Virgin, and now after a number of years I've been able to begin active work with my energy system inside of a spiritual framework that keeps my ego in check.

Paul

quote:

Originally posted by myfutureself:
I guess what I'm referring to is that I would start to think of my spiritual state as something I can manipulate and then use as some kind of tool in order to further the goals of the ego.

Ah, okay, that's what I would call that the "instrumental" approach to spirituality.

It seems inevitable that the ego will look at spiritual practice as a potential source of personal gain, because that's what egos do with everything!

The only exception I can think of is Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, who said that he didn't care whether he ended up in heaven or hell; he just wanted to love God anyway.

Tara thank you for coming on the list to offer some assistance for those of us having some difficulties with Kundalini. My husband and i had a nice long talk today about why i've wanted to move. Understanding my needs more now i've come to see that moving should not be my first option. Acceptance of and changing my lifestyle needs to come first, then we'll see.

I've gotten so much from you sharing from your own process that I sincerely hope that the thread can continue to be open to Kundalini issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Mary Sue:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shasha:
Tara is the name of the most popular Tibetan Buddhist Goddess.

That's pretty clever advertising for your love of Buddhism, Tara. Or is that a wild coincidence? "

Shasha, where is this whole post coming from?
What's happening.

I sent you a private message to address your question. Do you know that system of private messaging here?

I had a dream last night about this place. Phil was running a retreat centre where Tara was leading a class. She was beautiful and her Buddhist friends were beautiful. Then Phil took me aside and warmed my feet and legs, then began massaging my tailbone. We then had a private and intimate conversation about mistakes on the path. I even asked Phil if he understood my accent .
It was a lovely dream, very reassuring.

Unfortunately it was preceded by a series of dreams where the energy was horrible and dirty and all black witchy. I don't know where that came from but I wasn't impressed.

quote:

I had a dream last night about this place. . .

Ah Stephen, that was a very nice dream. And if I was understanding your accent, then it seems I was given a gift of "interpreting tongues."

I'm not trying to stir here as I find value on both sides of the discussion. But just thought I'd share this recent article that highlights the reason why so many Catholics at Shalomplace feel called to warn, caution and dissuade...we're in good company with our Pope and Church