Phil asked Christine (see below - post moved here from another discussion) about the beginning of the process for her and I thought I might start this thread, giving some details of my own trigger, with a view to others listing or sharing possible triggers and possible completion, resolution or rest for the energy. I thought it might be a space for Tara to share some of her insight and experience also.

Around 1994, when I was 24 years old, I was involved in a community arts and culture collective based around a local youth and community centre. We put on shows, plays, formed different bands and musical projects and created quite a vibrant arts scene in the locality. One project was a play written by a local writer where I had a role as a drug dealer no less. Involved in the scene and in the play as lead actress was a girl whom I fell deeply in love with. She was however, unavailable, and my love was unrequited. I had also been involved in a cultural exchange to Israel the year before and had become quite close to her on that trip, feeling myself falling slowly and helplessly in love. My yearning for her was immense and I remember how music affected me and how I indulged my feelings somewhat, staying up late at night listening to some powerfully ecstatic melodies. The play became quiute stressful, especially as I was so closely involved in rehearsal with her, and there were a lot of social events around it too, lots of drinking, cannabis smoking, quite a boisterous party scene to offset all the culture. Somewhere amidst all this, I was longing to know God, although I had left my Christian upbringing and was caught up in some heavy spiritual winds. I remember crying out for God, for my impossible love, often pathetically drunk or stoned, and somehow right in the middle of this, in the middle of the play's week long run, I started to feel an intense burning in my perineum and in my back, then all over my body, then my mind went haywire and all hell broke loose. The whole thing was a huge ball of energy triggered and fed in the main by unrequited love. How I got through the play, I'll never know, but after it finished I went into an extrended period of kundalini psychosis, which eventually calmed down, but led me into all sorts of stuff...but that's another story.

That was a while ago, and it's taken almost 20 years to work through various trials to the point where I feel a certain peace and a sense of nearing resolution or end spot for the energy. But I'm wondering if this will really happen and what it might actually mean for my Christian faith. I know the goal of k is to unite with consciousness, shakti/shiva kind of thing, and that enlightenment is the supposed outcome, but I see it more in terms of the revelation of my sonship and the complete expression of Christ in me. In other words, it's about making a way in the psyche for the Holy Spirit to work, allowing me to be a vessel of God's love, which in turn is about discovering and living my true identity as a son of the Father. Kundalini is a conduit for this, and any uniting of the energy with consciousness is simply about making space for a revelation of divine sonship in me. How this might link to full redemption or union with God remains to be seen, but to me, the two strands of being awakened and being revealed as a son of God are linked, perhaps distinct, but really inseparable, one informing the other if we allow the Holy Spirit to function as chief mover and Christ to be formed in us as new creations.

I'd like to ask Tara if she sees what might be called a resolution or completion to the kundalini experience, and what that might mean to her and her clients.

I'd also like to invite others to share kundalini triggers and hear opinions of what completion might mean. I know there's been a thread on kundalini opening and triggers before but it got a little cluttered and I thought we needed a new one.

Thanks very much,

Stephen

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Phil,

Hi, Stephen, Thank you for your rich and personal sharing. Your main questions are, I think, (1) "if this [resolution] will really happen," and (2) "what it might actually mean for my Christian faith."

On question (1): I don't have the same experiential knowledge of k that some here have, but I can offer a theoretical perspective. I believe that the pain you experienced around that lead actress was only partially caused by your situation as a twenty-four-year-old. That pain resonated with, and triggered the feeling of, old pain from much earlier in life. When repressed pain is felt, the mind subsequently rearranges itself. As you say, the mind "eventually calmed down." However, it seems to me that the k symptoms could be explained as the odd effects of the transitional period, in between the old organization and the new organization. The full resolution is, I believe, for the old pain and all related pain to be fully felt. Then the reorganization can, in the fullness of time, come to completion.

Question (2) I'll leave for others. I'll just point out that wondering what things mean tends to get in the way of feeling what you're feeling. In other words, question (2) is best left until the process in question (1) is complete.

Yes, thanks for your sharing, Stephen. It's a piece of your story I wasn't aware of. I guess the "psychic healer" part came next, or shortly thereafter?

- - -

I am thinking it's time for me to write another book on kundalini, as I've been privileged to be part of so many dialogues like this through the years that have helped me understand my own experience better, and what this process is about. A consultee in a Skype session yesterday was literally begging me to explain to him what was "really going on" -- God? Holy Spirit? The Devil?

If you look at the slides I've posted at http://shalomplace.com/theosis/ you see in slides 1 and 2 how I conceptualize a spiritual dimension to the unconscious (in addition to the physiological and psychological dimensions that have been studied so much during the past century). Jim Arraj, following Jacques Maritain, also wrote much about this as well. This is to say that the human spiritual soul has an unconscious, unrealized depth of potential and energy locked away until its emergence/release into the psyche and body is "triggered" (thread topic!) somehow. My slides go on to show how this all happens in an inner milieu of brokenness, which darkens and distorts the energy when it does emerge, especially if one has not been properly prepared through spiritual practice.

I think that, ideally, this is supposed to happen in the context of theotic transformation whereby the psyche and body have been properly prepared through spiritual practice, with an Ego that is open and receptive to such change. When that is not the case, however, it will be a very rough ride, as the Ego will experience K as "from the outside," or even diabolical. It may be that diabolical forces are indeed involved, but that would need to be properly discerned.

Taking the view of kundalini as the emergence of energy/potential from the spiritual unconscious of the soul, we can recognize possible triggers as:
- deep and intense spiritual longings over a prolonged time period, such as you have described above, Stephen.
- hyper-intense spiritual practices that "blow the seals" between the Ego and unconscious; holotropic breathing workshops, contemplative intensive retreats, prolonged periods of fasting and prayer, etc.
- drug use
- stressful times added to the above

As the spiritual is of a higher intensity than the physical and psychological levels, it will naturally vibrate and influence them. Whatever is incompatible with the newly awakened potential will be brought into light for resolution, as Derek has suggested.

Obviosuly, this is not what Christians mean by the Holy Spirit, though it is entirely possible that Spirit annointings precipitate K arousals and even awakenings. In such cases, the K process will be guided and directed by an even higher Intelligence, that of God, Who is Source of this and all our energies, and can guide the process to its intended goal, which is spiritual awakening and integration of body and psyche in the spiritual aspect of the soul.

Hi Samson
thanks for sharing your story and I am sorry to hear you had to go through this awful k psychosis. In my experience this is much more likely to happen in the wake of drug use rather than k awakening alone. So, partly I think it;s due to the cannabis use. I used to be a drugs counsellor and lots of people got psychotic from cannabis use.

Coming to your questions: what is causing the k awakening?

Most clients I know experienced it after intense self-development work. But it does not have to be meditation - for myself it happened after bioenergetic therapy (lots of screaming involved) and one client of mine had a very similar story as yours - k started through an intense relationship that was left unconsummated. Yet another said it started after a laughter-workshop.

About k and religion: I work with people from all religions and k is surely not bound to Hinduism - it's a universal experience. Many Christian mystics had this experience. I have read dozens of Chrisian biographies (little hobby of mine) and found references and signs of k in many of them. For example, Theresa of Avila talked of 'fire in her head' and her levitations are a sign of a far advanced k process.

Does the k process ever gets complete? My answer is - I am not sure you want to hear that - no. It's an ongoing process. I like to think of it like this:
when God/the universe/Higher Consciousness 'sees' that you are deeply engaged in personal development it invites you into the 'gifted class'.

In the beginning that may be quite flattering and people start to experience all sorts of ecstasies and bliss but there is also a lot more 'homework' to do compared to all the people who stayed in 'normal' class.

The 'homework' is that our unconscious mind opens up and we have to work through a lot more material than other people. Also, we do not get away with things like bad diet or dysfunctional relationships as other people seem to be able to do.

K is an energy that amplifies everything in us and that never stops in my experience. But obviously, there are enormous rewards like hightened creativity and intuition and also supernatural powers.

All this can be abused for selfish reason, which is why so many k teachers have gone off the rails. But if we are steadfast in our motivation to use these powers only for the benefits of others and to unite with the divine than we can reach these aims faster than without k.

I will leave it here for now and feel free to ask more questions.

Tara Springett KundaliniTherapist

quote:

integration of body and psyche in the spiritual aspect of the soul.

I like this!

Is awakening a necessary part of the theotic process then? Not in itself but in conjunction with Christ's life? Perhaps integration of this spiritual aspect with body and soul is what God holds, breathes life into and manifests as new creation. In its fullest realisation with the Holy Spirit, it seems to create an ideal vessel for life in Christ.

Yes, the psychic healer part came soon after the psychosis subsided, Phil, and was an attempt to "fix things". Big mistake!


Derek,

I'm listening to what you say. I feel the yearning for the actress was part of a deeper pain/yearning. I feel now too a lot of perinatal stuff coming up. I seem to be alternating between days of expansion and contraction. Days of deeply felt union where I sense everything is a glorious expression of a deeply loving One, and days when I shut down and don't feel much except a kind of "stuckness". I recognise the need to be present and accepting of however I'm feeling without projecting ahead at all.

This process seems to take over sometimes in prayer, as if I have to give way to the energy, or allow it to move through. But I am constantly asking Christ in to whatever opens up or connects with me, and I really do sense times of expansion as moving deeper into life and God absolutely pouring life into me from a deep well of His Being, and that he is right there at the tip of my consciousness as life eternal.

(I'm wondering if it might be good idea to move Christine's story over here or vice versa because this idea of kundalini leading one into or away from the Spirit might be interesting to pursue. As I say, it seems to take over at times but with me there's a sense that k and the Spirit are linked and that both are leading me deeper into God's life)

Tara,

Thanks for your comment. I don't disagree that it's an ongoing process, but there seems to be cycles where certain aspects are resolved and one is led deeper into God, and that as k works through blockages in the head, a certain karmic resolution becomes evident. My head is constanly zinging these days, sometimes very uncomfortable, but I sense this as necessary in overcoming some negative aspects, particularly to do with relationships. Your idea of bringing love in is very powerful from a Christian perspective!!

quote:

(I'm wondering if it might be good idea to move Christine's story over here or vice versa because this idea of kundalini leading one into or away from the Spirit might be interesting to pursue.

good suggestion Samson... i was going to suggest the very same thing Phil.. my head is feeling better today so will address your questions gladly, as well as ask a few of my own in regard to your questions and join in here.... hopefully on this thread?

Hi Samson
my background is Tibetan Buddhism and love and compassion are the most important spiritual qualities in this line of Buddhism. They are more important than Nirvana (which is actually been giving up in order to carry on helping all beings) or the kundalini process as such (called tummo).

Kundalini is used solely in order to become more loving and gaining more powers to make our love more effective (e.g. really helping people)

I find that Tibetan Buddhism and Christianity have a lot in common, particularly Catholicism is so similar in many respects that it's astonishing.

Yes, kundalini addresses many 'topics' in us. In actual fact it does not leave anything out. In this process we need to reassess and consciously adapt to a higher spirituality everything from our relationships, sexuality, diet, work and so on.

I like to see this journey in terms of chakras. The kundalini shows us quite clearly which topic we need to address by making one of our chakras uncomfortable. Once the topic of the chakra in question has been dealt with it moves to another chakra.

For you this is obviously the head chakra at the moment. If you have an energetic overload in this chakra it is important to focus away from it, for example on your heart or navel.

At the same time you need to look at the 'topic' of your head chakra - how you think, how you feel about yourself and your relationship with the divine and see if there is anything you could improve.

Hope this helps

Tara KundaliniTherapist

Moved Reply:

quote:

While I am completely in agreement with this and have heard both sides of the story, the one angle I have yet to find is to actually find a person who has received the Holy Spirit, lost it, refined themselves (contemplation, disciplines, practices/exercises) and eventually re-received the Holy Spirit presence into their lives.

I am one such as this. After having been giving extraordinary grace, being blessed with seeing Jesus of the Divine Mercy in 1996, taken up to the third heaven spontaneously in 1998, and seeing our Lord, in those early days days living a life of such simplicity ,I did not even know I was. I attended mass daily, prayed often as there was nothing in my life to distract me, my heart was on fire for love of God. I had little outside involvement other than walking around my town and time asking for food and toys for the migrant camps in the area in which i lived (I was moved to do so by the Holy Spirit). This continued on for about 3 years. I was simple in my understanding. I knew nothing about new age thinking or Eastern thought. I was in the beginning stages of kundalin, it had not begun to move up my spine yet, I lived utterly in love with Jesus. i thought all the sensations I felt were the Holy Spirit. I would become freezing cold as ice. I would be thrown into ecstasy while lying on my bed praying. I went to confession weekly. It didn't matter what i experinced inwardly or outwardly as my eyes were firmly fixed on Him. I was like a spiritual forest gump back then..

Then, active K began in 2001 and all hell broke loose. I had no idea what was happening to me. The demonic as well as the angelic were my daily companions as I experienced both ends of the spectrum; visually, auditorily, my mind felt like I was going nuts. Overnight my body blew up and became stiff with energy. My body hurt, my head hurt, I was deeply alarmed. I felt God had abandoned me. I had recently married Matthew and by God's great mercy and incredible grace he was there to help me through it. If he had not been with me I hate to think where I would have ended up as i knew nothing about kundalini.

I felt God had abandoned me, and the sense of the Holy Spirit, although not gone, had dimmed in my perception, mainly because i was so afraid. I did not understand then that the Holy Spirit has not moved at all, that i was only blinded by the great Light of God .

In my fear to understand what was happening to me, I acted out instead of trusting God. I was introduced to new age thinking and eastern thought. It helped me immensely in the beginning. I began to intellectually understand what was happening to me. i devoured books on the subjects of kundalini, quieting the mind, and so forth. I had finally found what I believed was the answer to my debilitating fears. 'Enlightenment'. The new way of God moving on the planet. In my heart I abandoned the teachings of God's Holy Church, even scoffed at it as 'old energy, not open to what is happening on the earth today'. I began to listen to Eckhart Tolle's videos and books, and a host of other Eastern and new age guru's insights. Although I sincerely was never tempted to become Hindu or Buddhist, and by God's grace i was never tempted to abandon in my heart my relationship with Jesus, slowly, perceptively I no longer experienced the active Presence of the Holy Spirit.

I still continued to pray to Jesus and go to mass but slowly but surely began to become deadened to the things of God. I could not understand this, as I loved the Lord.

Yet I failed to see the mixing of more new age thinking (in short following my own internal mixture of spiritual hodgepodge and pursuing enlightenment as the answer) had taken away my heart for the things of God. Slowly the Holy Spirit left me. Obviously I wasn't left entirely, God is faithful, as my intention through all of this was always Jesus. But i was doing my own willful thing, blissfully unaware of my confused and deadened state, much like a frog who is slowly dying when when put in a pot of water on the stove and the heat is slowly rising...

In late December, after years of numbing, I picked up an Eastern Orthodox book written by a monk who much like me had slipped into eastern thought (prior to his becoming a monk). He has been raised Eastern Orthodox as a kid. In short, this book went into great detail about his grief of abandoning His faith. He spoke a great deal about his need of repentance. When i read it I felt repulsion. I felt sincere repulsion as it felt like 'old energy'. By God's grace I had enough awareness to see within my self this irrational response, and over the next few days i prayed about it. At first dead dry prayers, but none the less sincere. At Christmas I got a call from a woman who called evry year asking me to come back to the Eatern Orthodox church. Usually my internal response to her was a polite excuse not to attend or a cheap promise i would soon, which of course never manifested. This time i found myself saying yes. I continued to read this book on repentance. I called an Orthodox priest who I did not know in a neighboring town and asked if i could see him for confession. He invited Matthew and i to came stay with him and his family over Nativity. So we did.

I shared here a few months ago about that experience. When i walked into tha church I was literally hit over the head with the Holy Spirit. I could hardly stand and I definitely could not think. I was literally unable to. I was shocked and quieted. I went to confession that evening and was sincere in confessing my sin. The following early morning, as I shared here in a post a few months ago, BOTH Matthew and I were demonically attacked at the exact same time before waking and going to Divine Liturgy. I was deeply shaken by the attack. Thank God the priest took it with a grain of salt and told me to do so as well. Smiling he told me it was a low blow and I was not to be to disturbed by it, that these things happen because I was on the right path. .

The next couple weeks were rough. Obviously none of you know me here to know I am not one to be super preoccupied with thoughts of demons and devils. I was never raised that way. I was seriously attacked nightly for about two weeks after my return to the visible church. I continued to pray and trust Jesus and the blessed Mother with it. Once again, Matthew was there to support me. I was still, (if you can believe it) struggling with wanting to return to my old ways of intellectual understanding as it filled a void that i had spend years filling with... stuff.

So what has this got to do with the loss of the Holy Spirit? Everything! He didn't move, I did.

As I reread this I can see how those who are heavily involved in mind stuff could poo poo this post, as I could have readily done so in my old ways of seeing. Everything I have shared is the truth. How does one lose the connection of the Holy Spirit? By doing what i shared above. I did not have ill intent. I sincerely felt that I was following Jesus. In truth I was doing things my way. I read a cute thing the other day, I'll share it here: The national anthem of hell is "I did it my way."

There is truth to that, and that hell begins now with the byproducts of deadness wrapped in self delusion.

Today, by the great mercy and grace of God, my heart is softened to Him. I am not implying that I have in some way arrived, but I am beginning to experience His deep peace and gentle joy as I let go of self reliance and rest in the Most Holy Spirit. Things like obedience to the teaching of the Church which I once scoffed at in my arrogance. I am beginning to sincerely love, and virtue has become far more important to me than chasing after enlightenment.

My prayer life has radically changed. Once again I am experiencing profound joy. Beyond words, beyond words. My heart is being cleansed of arrogance and spiritual greed by many tears. But this crying feels good, a crying for the things of God and the deepest desire for God Himself. Amazing grace.

My heart is ablaze with the Holy Spirit's unbelievable Presence within me. How could this have happened? I have asked myself, "How could I have moved away and allowed this to happen?" The answer for me is that we are all capable of such treason. Grace is to know this. His mercy is far greater than our ignorance. If we dare to respond to His mercy and reach out to Him, our eyes will be opened. . I found it hard at first to get this, as my ego was so very encrusted in in self righteousness and delusion i could not see the forest for the trees. The mind is so entrenched with its intellectual self importance, entertaining itself on its own spiritual arrogance. Harsh but true, and this recognition was the beginning of approaching true Life.

I am letting go of the illusion of the cutting edge for the simplicity and peace of Christ and His church...life is good yeah the inner work is still going on.. There has been a real reorientation within my life and this could not have been without the Help of the Holy Spirit.

Whatis interesting is how the kundalini energy has really been transforming me in conjunction WITH the Holy Spirit. The direct experience of this is phenomenal .. yet kundalini is no longer a focal point for me as i continue let go of being the ' director of activites .

Moved Reply:

Christine,

Such a beautiful post and story! So nicely put.

I am so happy for you. Dynamite!

I like most of all this staement you've made:

quote:

virtue has become far more important to me than chasing after enlightenment.

Pop-pop

Moved Reply:

Yes, thanks for your generous sharing, Christine. You have related parts of of your story before, but what I am curious about, here, is how the kundalini process got going for you in 2001, especially after those years of a more traditional Christian spirituality, including abundant consolations?

- - -

When the k process shifted into high gear for me in 1984-87 or so, I was also confused about what was happening and lost the sense of the Spirit I'd known before. I also read extensively in Eastern and metaphysical literature, which seemed to name, describe and account for the K process better than anything found in the Christian literature, with which I was acquainted. Being something of an intellectual and head person, it never occurred to me that my experience had implications for Christian truth, faith, etc., so the intellectual convictions of my faith never wavered. Naturally, however, I did wonder what God was up to, here, and what kind of prayer was best, etc. It took awhile for that to sort out. I haven't had affective consolations since those days, but find the Spirit at work more in other ways.

I think consolations are ripples of spiritual energy in the psyche, meant to encourage and support, and so are good things. But it seems God always calls those who are truly committed to learn to journey with or without them, and so deprives us of them for awhile that we might seek the God-of-consolations rather than the consolations-of-God. This is generally what the Night of the Senses is about, though it doesn't always come with kundalini process.

Moved Reply:

Hi Phil.

Possibly it is a difference of what is meant in our understanding/perception of when I talk about not having active kundalini until 2001. I did most definitely experience energy from 1996 to 2001... I would say i would view this time period and all that occurred as 'pre' kundalini.

In those early years at times I experienced many kundalini type symptoms that were even rather dramatic. Spontaneous corpse like frozen-ness like I was physically dead when I lay in bed and pray, it was like I entered a trance like state for hours. My body feeling like ice to the touch. One would have thought I was dead I was so cold... literally like my body was a corpse!

During those years I also felt strong overall vibration in the body, as well as intense heat, light behind the eyes. The light was mainly gold and violet -- light blub like flashes behind my eyes -- when they occurred I experienced a popping in the brain. I also had many powerful visions and once even went up to the third heaven and saw Jesus there. These episodes were spontaneous. There wasn't any prior praying either, I simply jumped into my bed to pray and when I did, up I went!

An array of other stuff happened during those years; way too many to account here. I thought it was the Holy Spirit as i knew nothing about kundalini. I meant it when i said I was a spiritual forrest gump. I blindly went along with it all as i was 'sap happy' in love with the Lord. I simply pondered the meaning of it all at the time and chalked it up as me being dumb about spiritual things to understand. I did think it odd, but I had so much faith in Him and He was 'all' I had during those years. I paid little attention to it and figured that if I died because of any of it, then all for the better as I would be in heaven with Him! Also, what for me separates this pre- kundalini time period from active kundalini rising is I was.able to function easily within normal waking hours. Going to mass, praying and serving in the Migrant camps, being able to care for my home and garden. Also, outwardly no one would have suspected anything was going on with me.

In January of 2001 when kundalini began to rise, there was a definite difference. My body would begin to slowly blow up and stiffen every night in the early evening. In the middle of the night I would be awakened by a strong, strong movement rolling up my body like a huge ball of energy. I felt like it would literally swallow me up, it was so intense. My body would jerk and jump all over the bed and my eyes would roll back in my head. I had to have looked possessed! All the time I would be praying for God to help me. This went on for 5 months. I saw all sorts of things. Past and future events, demons, angels, the most incredibly beautiful music in my head. This nightly weirdness went on for 5 months. Thank God for my grounded husband who would tell me to be calm and trust God and not what was happening. If it had not been for him I honestly think i may have snapped.

During those months I was pretty much bedridden with Kundalini. I had blisters on my tailbone from so much heat. When I tried to stand up my legs felt so hyper it was difficult to walk or stand..at times i would lose my vision. I found this particularly unnerving. Not a fun time. During the days I prayed and did the best I could to rest. In May of 2001 K began to climb the spine, much like a freight train at high speed, exploding in my head and rendering my sense of 'being' as somewhere out in space, or in a black void. I felt utterly out of control in the beginning with the power of it.

After months of this I was introduced to some books on kundalini. How grateful I was! Finally I had some answers to my plight. This led to my eagerness to find out as much as I could about what I was experiencing. This new found journey led me to reading many books on metaphysical subjects which led me to a deeper understanding intellectually. But after years of this it dulled my heart and appealed to my ego in a subtle way. I began to live unconsciously as if I were my own authority. My straightforward search for understanding the kundalini experience led me down the alley of dallying with the asceticism of mental divestment of all that is 'relative.' In truth, this is where the waywardness of my journey began. All good intentions, but I found it led to a sense of death. The death of the heart. That I was abandoning true real Being for non being.

It is true what you say Phil, that Eastern and metaphysical literature describe and account for the K process better than anything found in the Christian literature. That was the big hook. If I had known where to find such literature within the Christian tradition, I would not have gone wandering to find it elsewhere, but i did and it cost. It cost me the innocence of my heart that had opened me to God, as my mind grabbed hold of the information and was hungry for more, but at the expense of my heart being opened in living trust in Our Lord. I have come to learn the hard way that God is not interested in our knowledge. He is interested in our hearts as it is here that we touch the hem of His garment. Unlike you, i was not able to straddle the fence of these two things.

Today is Divine Mercy Sunday. I am thankful for His mercy. Much like the whore who was always going off and prostituting herself in the book of Hosea, even after such richness bestowed upon me in 1996 when I was blessed in seeing Our Lord of the Divine Mercy. I, like her, wandered off to find answers instead of remaining faithful in simple faith. Gradually, and ever so subtly, enticed to be a 'god' (doing my own thing) apart from the True and only God. I began to wander from true repentance as i saw 'sin' as a concept of the old school.

by God's Most Holy Grace this has changed, and I will cling to Him until the day I die, asking for His Most Holy Mercy for the grace of a pure heart that I may see His face and that I may pray for others that they too may be drawn to know Him deeply, in and through His Divine Mercy.

Our Lord is faithful... so this Divine Mercy Sunday, i am deeply grateful for His faithfulness .... thru those early years of rising K and for His leading ma back onto the path which He has called me when i had wandered off.

May He be praised!

Moved Reply:

Thank you, Christine. That's an amazing testimony you share -- both to your sense of openness and trust in God, and of God's loving providence in your life.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure where to "draw the line" regarding kundalini phenomena. The post 2001 experiences you share certainly qualify, but it sounds like there was plenty going on before. Same with me, prior to what emerged in the mid-80s. I recall even back in the mid-1970s feeling something like ants crawling around in my brain, or the top of my head opening up. What I would say about those times, and perhaps you would say about your pre-2001 experiences is that the energy stuff was concomitant, or an epiphenomenon, with the mystical graces predominating. That's how I hear you, at least. After 2001, the energy phenomena predominated, with the mystical graces being difficult to detect, hence your sense of "losing the Spirit." Intellectually, I knew that wasn't the case, but it can surely be confusing as to what the heck this new energy experience is about, and what relation it has to God or transformation. It can be so much more rough and painful than the concomitant phenomena accompanying mystical experiences. One can naturally wonder if something has gone seriously wrong.

There is just so much we don't know about all this. But one thing I am absolutely sure of is that faith ought not be based on how one feels so much as on convictions of the truth of one's beliefs, and the hope of their realization (Heb. 1:1). Sometimes that intellectual conviction is all that one has, but it is something, at least, and immeasurably preferable to having no such convictions. Even so, however, there is nothing approaching certainty, and an ongoing prodding of the will to trust in God, even though one has no idea what is going on, or why. It does seem that we are given what is needed to do what the present moment requires, and that is enough.

- - -

How old were you around 2001, Christine (you don't have to answer that, of course, if it seems too intrusive). I ask because it seems the younger one is when the spiritual unconscious opens, the rougher the ride (implications here for what Stephen experienced at age 24, described in another thread).

Moved Reply:

Christine, another thought came to me. In some of your ecstatic mystical experiences, you mention that your body was cold to the touch . . . "like a corpse." This has been reported by others through the ages. But why is this?

I think we can say that in such ecstacies, the energies are drawn into the spiritual unconscious, where the mystical experience is most actively fermenting (and overflowing into consciousness as well). Such ecstacies are actually beginning to activate the spiritual unconscious, which (in your case) eventually burst into full flame in 2001, at which time your awareness of the mystical graces was eclipsed by the intensity of the energy itself. Eventually, when your mind was strengthened and your faith re-focused and the energy settled down a bit, a new balance was restored. Does that all make sense?

OK, I've moved the exchange with faustina (Christine) from the other thread to this one, which makes more sense, and edited the first sentence of your opening post, Samson (Stephen) to adjust for this.

Unfortunately, the posts I moved are out of sync chronologically with exchanges above them, so scroll up a bit for the most recent exchanges between Tara and Stephen.

Good discussion!

Tara,

Is there any suggestion that we deal with these chakra related topics consecutively, as the k ascends, so that the head is the final destination and the last related aspect to be dealt with? Or is there a more complex pattern of healing working on chakras at different levels, moving between different areas as the need arises.

The energy seems to ascend up the spine initially (I remember a stormy night back then when my spine felt electrified and the energy poured out my ears), but over time different areas are worked on or blockages worked through relating to the chakras. I get the sense too that nadis get cleansed - for example, I've been aware of channels in my left and right side opening up over the past couple of years and burning intensely as the energy worked through them. I'm also guessing that the central channel right up the middle from root to crown may be the last nadi to be cleansed.

The psychosis I went through (defintely drug related) gave quite a few insights into the nature of consciousness. Do you know the film "Network" starring Peter Finch and Faye Dunaway, where a news anchor has a k awakening and becomes a TV prophet - "We're mad as hell and not going to take it anymore"? In one scene the main character played by Finch has a conversation with what he thinks of as God while lying in bed at night. Some weeks later the exact scenario and dialogue is played out in his real life with a TV executive. It was a massive premonition he had entered into. The same thing happened to me over an extended period. I had these scenes and dramas play out in my head and later went through exactly what I had played out, like a massive deja vu.

At any rate, it showed how k can cut through consciousness and reveal different layers of experience outside time, as if at one level everything is happening at once.

Surrendering all this to a loving source and allowing that love to work on each topic as it arises has been very healing for me. But if I pay any heed to the massive premonition all these years ago, there seems to be some sort of resolution, where the central nadi is cleansed and the crown or third eye opened. Of course, that's best left to happen on its own without my fussing too much or becoming overly attached.