Thanks Phil that is where I am at. It's funny white book SA's version of the blue book saids that the 2nd step is harder for people with a religious background and for individuals coming from other 12 step programs. Personally I found this to be true. Alot of conception of God from my background blocking me from developing a healthy concept of God. I feel stuck and have stumbled or as my sponsor puts been hit by God's to by four reminding me of my powerlessness. But I need to go beyond step 1 and develop a healthy view of God. The issue for me is my father never accepted me and sometimes maybe unconsciously I view God the same way. I had this discussion with a friend this morning. I have found your book Becoming a New Person helpful especially the chapter on the 2nd step.

brjaan, I think Step 2 can often be furthered by doing spiritual reading. As you're noting, it does call into question the image of God we've picked up through the years, but we don't have to be stuck with that. Step 2 is an invitation to learn for yourself who God is for you. Find some good books on this topic, read the Bible, listen to your priest/preacher, go to workshops and lectures, pray about it. This is an important journey, and one upon which will benefit your working the other Steps.

I came accross a book that was given me during the my first attempts at recovery O Happy Fault written by Robert M Garrity and was struck by his emphasis on self love instead of self abasement. Growing up a fundamentalist/charismatic I heard a lot of messages about the killing the self, and abandoning self leaving me with a spirituality of self hatred. This Priest puts out the argument I have heard before but did not beleive that good spirituality begins with Self love not hatred. Maybe I need to start here I look at God as someone who dislikes me or who I am and maybe I can accept myself as a child of God.

I see to be stuck on my 2nd step. I keep acting like I see God as the great santa in the sky or my rescuer and then when this does not happen I fall into shame and act out. I know God does not work this way but my saids something else. Maybe this is the struggle Paul had when he said I do what I do what I do not want too. Anyway I am still out here.
I have been reading Becoming a new Person 12 steps to Christian Growth By Romain and O Happy Fault by Garrity both excellent books. this has opened my eyes to the fact that all my views of God are really based on my selfishness. I operate out my own psuedo theology and selfishness to get my way spiritually, relationally, and in the end my addiction. Pray for me as I rediscover a healthier view of God and myself.

"I operate out my own psuedo theology and selfishness to get my way spiritually, relationally, and in the end my addiction. Pray for me as I rediscover a healthier view of God and myself."

Brjaan:

We all do this. Another way of looking at selfishness, since we remain this way to the very end, is in terms of insecurity. Becoming a more secure person isn't a sinful pursuit if it means recognizing our inherent worth, which requires cultivating understanding and compassion for ourselves. When Jesus asks us to keep His word, he seems to be referring to love of God, and our neighbor as ourselves. But it's that last piece we skim over, at least in my experience.

How do we love ourselves? If we don't feel loveable on the inside, then God doesn't have much chance to show up in our awareness in an intimate way. Trying to become less selfish often ends up feeling like a hair-shirt, where we pursue perfection while not recognizing the shame and anger driving us.

If none of this makes sense, or doesn't fit your way of seeing things, then by all means keep to your charted course.

It took me a long time to even feel love inside my chest. And during that time, God certainly seemed an external persona. What I found was that my own unexpressed grief was holding it firmly in this way. When I began to grieve in therapy, I discovered the tenderness inside, the yearning for giving and receiving love that had been taken over via addiction in order to survive.

So if you haven't done some individual therapy work, there might be some value in it to help you embrace your sensitivities as constructive aspects of your self. I was overwhelmed with how much God loves me, and how close that love has always been. Only when my relationship with this pain changed to a dignified one did that love feel real.

God's speed with your continued search. You sound like quite a good-hearted soul.

Good points, w.c., to which I would add a mention of Jesus' parable of the weeds and the wheat. We have both good and evil within us so we shouldn't be surprised to discover mixed motives following us into our spiritual practice/recovery program. We just keep tending the wheat and let the Lord take care of the weeds. Seeing them for what they are and choosing to not give them any food is helpful, however.

Carry on, brjaan. You can move on to Step 3 (and in association with this one, Step 11) without having totally resolved all the issues concerning theology and images of God. We go through these Steps again and again; it's an ongoing conversion process.

It has been an interesting couple of days of discovery. I fell on the ice dislocated my foot and suffered to breaks which required pins. In the process I think I am seeing what it means to love myself in a healthy way. For me this is the first step in Loving God in a new way. I think I may be moving to the third step.

Sorry to hear about your accident. Ouch! Maybe it's symbolic in some way?

OK, 3rd Step now. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

It is interesting how the AA and SA literature say that it is harder for those coming from other 12 step programs or religious backgrounds because they have to junk all those preconcieved notions of God and the program and start over. I grew up around fundamentalism and have lots of theories for God that continue to cloud my views of God and trust in my theories instead of God himself

I have not posted in along time and it is interesting and surreal to see my journey and mishaps. a couple of weeks a go I fell flat on my face and was talking to another program person about my struggles with the second step. He reminded me one cannot work a perfect first step but must make a commitment to God as we understand him and continue the second step as a Journey through the rest of the steps. This really helped me see more clearly. I also picked up Out of the Shadows by Paul Carnes. The rest of my discussion will be about step 3 as I move forward on my Journey. My leg is getting better something I am very greatful for.

Hang in there, Br. Jaan! You're making progress, even with that bum leg.

Surrender is a difficult process I am finding out. I am also finding out how deep my defects or desires run. The question I keep asking myself do I really want to surrender all my lusts, all my defects or desires that I am addicted too my whole self. Today I fell on my face and am feeling the shame but also thinking about why it happened. My leg continues to get better.

This week I was reminded how powerless I need to to change. St Francis talks about our live becoming a prayer. That is the kind of spirituality that will change me. Moment by moment situation by situation surrender. Up to know I have been praying primarily in the morning but by the afternoon I am locked in my anxiety and fear and running the Jaan program. Anyone else experience this I want my life to be a prayer.

"Tatjana, welcome to the forum. You say your depression happened at 25; how old are you now? It sounds like you've come out in a very good place--quite a contemplative spirit. "

I am now 32. I have found peace and joy and my earthly mission as healer of those who don't yet know their Being in Christ. I no more have fear of anything, since I have already died and so seen that there is no death to real me that is hidden in Christ. I see God in everyone of You. We all belong to Sonship. I only want to bless You to see the grace of our Father

Today has been one of those times when a real 3rd step surrender was needed. I am finding the only way it works for me is to call someone else in the program. I just become obssessive compulsive about thinking or desiring my addiction that I need to talk with someone about it. This helps me refocus and begin to walk toward recovery again.

This week has been better. I think that sometimes it is easy to hide in are selfishness and not let go and move on to surrender. My excuse was let me define my God first but in the back of my mind not wanting to let go of those strands selfishness I hang on to or cling too instead of just surrendering to Christ.

Br. Jaan, you've put your finger on an issue that we struggle with for a long time, and that is resisting the pull of our old nature. I think the good sign is that you're aware of the pull of God as well, which helps you to resist the old ways. Hang in there.

thanks Phil I will hang in there. The other issue for me to continue on working the steps to get out of the complacency mode that I find myself in alot. things will be going well and then I will stop actively surrendering and stop doing the things that keep me from my selfish behavior. that's is when the brick wall shows its ugly face and I am reminded that I need to dependent on God in both good and bad times.

I have finally started doing some serious work on my third step. I think the biggest block has been letting go of those things that I cling too when I feel pain or anxiety instead of experiencing those emotions for what they are a part of life. I started by listing off the things I know that I need to surrender but I think it will turn more into a narrative of my current relationship with God and then surrendering my misconceptions.

This week has been very good lesson in surrender and the good that one recieves afterward. My wife and I have grown closer and I have felt less panic stricken. I had my moments but I was willing to lay the temptations down so to speak. I am pretty close to moving on to the fourth step.

Br. Jaan, if you need a good 4th Step inventory guide, let me know. I'll even publish it on this forum, if that would help. Glad to hear you're making some progress.

One old timer I know used to hand out notebooks and pens to anyone who wanted them.
One fellow who has postponed it for ten years
handed me his credit card to hold for him to keep him from the casino. He is in such pain from avoiding the temporary discomfort of an inventory.
My last sponsee disappeared when it came time for inventory. The one before that eventually took it with another sponsor. When the pen hits the paper
I know I have a 3rd step. Just do it! michael

Phil I would love to have a guide to help with the fourth step inventory. I am writing on my 3rd step though admittedly it really is slowly becoming about those things that I hang on to tenaciously almost like my first step only about my spiritual life and higher power. I am in a more stable situation due to the fact that I have been able to surrender more of the triggers.

I guess I can be somewhat impatient with those I percieve as balking on a fourth step. Apologies if I came off this way. My first sponsor said that the point of doing a fourth step was to learn how to do a fourth step and that it was the beginning of a lifelong process.

I started reading Lolita by Nabacov and I feel guilty about even owning a copy. My last girlfreind was repulsed and disgusted that I should own such a dirty little book. I guess I am still learning about my shadow and my fourth step.

charitas,

michael

The 4th Step process I use calls for taking each of the 10 Commandments, the corporal works of mercy, and the spiritual works of mercy. For each of these, reflect on the following:

1. What is my belief concerning this value? (Not what *should* you believe, but what do you actually believe about, say, putting God first [the 1st commandment])

2. How have I been faithful in keeping this belief or value in my life? (It is a moral inventory, and so that includes not just what we've done wrong, but what we've done right as well).

3. How have I been unfaithful in keeping this belief or value in my life? (Be specific: who, when, where, what consequences, etc.)

That's it, only this can take awhile. I recommend writing it out, as this slows the mind and enables a deeper reflection and recollection. Use this material when presenting Step 5.

As a follow-up, use this material in Steps 6 and 7 as well. For Step 7, add a fourth question, on how you can be more faithful to your values and beliefs from now on. Humbly ask God's help to implement your resolutions.