hello freebird,
i thinck i miss the right click and topic to answer you...
It seems that i made my response in a new topic... If you want i can try again but it is a big letter and i don't want to obstruct yor site. All my apologize.
vincent

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vincent, I'm transferring your "new topic" post to this one and deleting the other topic.
- Phil

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hello freebird.
I am not proud of my story, because i make the most stupid acte in my life, and i did a lot in fact. Apparently it seems that it is in my nature to live the union with what you call atman. But it is also in my nature to be a little mad and stupid in fact.
when i was fifteen years old i had a crack in my nape, without pain, immediatly followed by a big star above my head. It was magnificient but very quick.
At twenty i practice a kind of yoga exclusively aimed on the non thought state, 12 hours a days, alone. About one month after, the same star appears again, with a warmth in all my body. It change my mind, my toughts, my vision around me, but i didn't known what i was living. I don't remember exactly how long i lived with this fabulous state, aproximatively one week i suppose, before one of my friend bring some alcool in my flat to have a good time with me. I drink with him and all my state stopped. The next morning the star was deseapears and all my magic state with it. So i practice again yoga, 12 hours a days and more, very hard in fact, very unpleasant, it was a little like dying all the time, before the star appears again one month latter. Magnificient again, two or three days and my stupidity make me fall again. I didn't known what i was experiencing. So i did a stupid act and return again in the first case. But this time i was able to feel all the currents in my body, and especially the one who was active all the time, the one witch pass behind the head to the lotus above the head.
So i try again, for days and days but the current i feel, i force it to pass in front of my eyes, becose i had the most beautiful vision in my life a few months before right here. That was the last stupidity i had made. Kundalini is so violent, so hot, so... Since this day i feel like a burning needle in ajna. Impossible to redress that. To late. By the time i read some achemist books witch i understand perfectly because it is just the kundalini way described, and i read some book on yoga and learn what i was experienced. But nobody around me understood what i was living, of course, even the ones who practice yoga don't understand nothing about kundalini and i feel alone with that since i read the gopi's story... It was a really joy for me becose what i see in the dark, chakras, and all that, i was thinking by the time that i was a little mad, in fact. But gopi story will help me too take care of my life, now.
So since my 20 years old i live with a pain in ajna. I can see the two petals of ajna turning in front of me all the time, and sometimes the chakras too, and a lot of others things.
Today, 20 years after, i feel that state all the time, and the pain is a little desepears. I can feel the kundalini 24 hours a days trying to reach the top of my head but i didn't allow it becose if i practice yoga again the pain instently follow the current i made and goes to ajna, awaking the pain again, enlighting the dark with a white-blue fog, but in the same time it goes a little to the top of my head and sometimes i see a light in it, i even see one morning an huge and fantastique blue and white whirlpool turning on my head... It was the fist time. Two years ago. The exp�rience i descriped before, i never saw that. It was only a big star. very lightening. Not a whirlpool... And not so big... so the natural current is still active. In fact, to tell the thrue, i thinck i can rectifie that by myself, with a kind of life more adapted than the one i got, but it will brings me in the way to live what you call the union with atman, witch can be desastrous in this world to live. no? And if i can't, it will be for me to live again with that horrible pain.

So my question was: do you known what to do to rectify a deflected current or not? Magnetism, accupuncure or else. If i found a solution about that, i will maybe stop that stupid life i live and very quickly i think, i will be able to make the things hapen again for my realisation. If i decide to do that, it will be for a non return state. I known that my personality will desepears and i will be more alone than the way i feel now.

So, that is my story.
excuse me for my bad english.

vincent, thank you for sharing your story. It sounds like you've had some wonderful experiences, but that you've also discovered how delicate and somewhat unstable these higher energy states can be. "Managing" them using various techniques can seem to work for awhile, but, as you'ved noted, an errant flow can be a most difficult thing to correct, not to mention quite painful.

The understanding I've come to is that these higher consciousness/energy states give true testimony to the possibility of embodying spiritual consciousness, but also to the fact that our human nature has been damaged by what Christians call "the Fall," and original sin. This means that even though the "wiring" for higher states remains, the outcome of firing things up often goes badly because of disorder not only in our behavior, but in our human nature itself.

The only lasting solution I've found to this is to open myself to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Who joins me to the risen Body of Christ. This Body then becomes the new foundation for the soul's inherent movement unto embodiment, and the Holy Spirit becomes the intelligence that guides and directs the kundalini process. It's similar to a devotee's allegiance to a guru, only what we have, in Christ, is the Guru par excellence.

So it is not through any particular technique that our energy conundrums are resolved, so much as faith in Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit. When we keep this focus first, then we find ourselves spontaneously moved to do the practices that will help us, and even if various pains and knots remain, we can bear them more patiently and peacefully.

hello phil
yes, maybe you are right and and maybe not.
I really don't want to annoy you, but i have to give you my conclusion about that.
I thinck that what you call the holly spirit is already in us, we are already this holly spirit, in half...
In fact there is two way, the outside way and the inside one. And both are part of the unique way. The outside way gives you joy and peace for your soul. It helps you to bring in maturity a vegetal part of yourself without a conscious act. I call it the outside way becose we don't focalise our conscious inside ourself but outside. But the divine part in ourself is growning independantly. This part is rising like all the plants do, rising toward a spiritual sun, witch is the light of the conscious. And like the plants, the water you give to is in this case your pure feelings. One day, when it is time, you can perceive the second way.
The second way, the inside one, give you birth and maybe death if you are not aware about all the forces that will emerge, you have to be strong and weack in the same time. stong to maintain your volonteer act, weack to be open and recieve your second part of yourself, not interfere like i did, in the natural energy way, and ready to die. This arrive when your center, your core, this vegetal life in you is ready to give birth. When the "flower" in you open itself to recieve pollen, to give you the exemple of the nature.
This center, in the christian way, you can call it Marie. Marie give birth to the christ after the apparition of the star, like the union with atman in the kundalini way, in the 7th chakras. In the antic egypt, it is isis. Seth, the snake, kill osiris and cut him in few parts. Since isis is in the research of all the parts of her husband body and she found at least all the parts, exept the sexual one. This mean that your divine nature in yourself are working to prepare the terrain by "searching" all the parts of your future "being" in you, and when it will be, the last part, the sexual one, witch give seed, will descent for your second birth. To make the phoenix story appen. To made a new human being appears. Alchemist call it divin spermatozoon, and the materia primeria to make the philosophical stone is a black stone. Like was isis, like marie sometimes appears with the black virgin in europe. In the warrior christian way, the name is graal. First of all perceval see the holy graal, he don't known or don't care about it, doesn't ask the question, witch is only the question of the question itself : what is it, in me, in my realm, who am i? and the realm of arthur fall. Then he have to rectify by his behaviour and act and nature his sin, whitch wasn't a real sin, but just an act in the natural order of the divine birth. Bring some chaos to construct a new order. Destroy the last conscious to form a new one, with a new aim. In the magical way, lucifer story is the same thing too. Lucifer fall by a kind of pride, his emerald in his forehead remain in the sky because part of it, angels makes it become the graal by hewing it and since, lucifer, whitch is the archetypal of human being with all his magical possibility after the fall have to rectify that to recover his own nature. Lucifer means "the one who bring the light" and was the christ illustration in the middle age before being a satanic one in the collective new mind. The graal, witch is green like the vegetal nature in this version, is the central color of the solar prism. And what are we, except a solar energy alive, searching to known about ourself in our depth, in our core? That's the tao way too. annyway it is the same story everywhere.
When your core is ready and awake, then you can hear it sometimes gives you advices. It is very deeply, pleasant and stange too becose it is like yourself but very very establish in the thrue who are talking to you, giving the advice you are waiting for, yourself in your future who create a kind of link, i think. I exp�rienced that sometimes. But very very rare. This voice is you in your future, already made i thinck. Nobody else but you. Do you remember the butterfly storie in the tao tale? A man dream about a butterfly, when he wakes up, his question is: did i dream about a buttefly or is it him who are dreaming about me? The conclusion of the forces of the univers by the astrophysicist or quantic physique are going in this direction too. Not about the human mind but about the universal forces...
In our case, the only aim is to prepare the place for a fertilization, witch give you birth for the second time and the last one. If you don't do the first act by yourself, like it is descibes in the bible, help you and the sky will help you, by a volonteer act, you can miss the second, witch give you birth, in the univers path. But it can give you death and madness too if you are not ready to or taking that with too much frivolity or too much seriousness. In fact, the natural rule of the nature, witch seems nasty, cruel and heartless is the same in the spiritual way, unfortunatly. Very much dangers and no much help outside yourself, when your time is arrive. You have to be a kind of a hero, like ajurna or else. A kind of warrior, and if you win your war against yourself, you will get the frist prize, like we do in our olympic stadiums. The hero, the first one in anny sports recieve a cup. This is a very old tradition to maintain the mistery key of the human transformation in the human path.
I really known what i am talking about, and all that romantics ways are juste some kind of story for childs helping them to understant what's coming next, but the assimilation with thoses stories are a real danger too, but they are necessary becose it is part of the first step for taking conscience. But it is also part of the trap. That's why a lot of guys and womens became mad, the assimilation with all those archetypes witch is absolutly normal in the first step bring them one step behind if they lost lucidity of the aim. The aim is being pure engergy conscious of itself, without the old clothes that brings you here. The aim is the unknown, not the known.
But maybe i am totality wrong about the help outside... I really don't known in fact and maybe i am close...
I will thinck seriously about that.
And to talk about the original sin, i can't associate my thoughts in it, because i don't thinck there is an original sin but only an childbirth of life by itself to make appears a conscious of the univers, what people call god.
with all my respect
vincent

Vincent, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're confusing the yearning of the human spirit and its energies of embodiment with what I meant by the Holy Spirit. It also seems that you consider Christian teachings to be merely symbolic of the Hindu/kundalini paradigm. I'm not denying the truth of the experiences you point to; I'm pointing to something else.

I've shared with you the best advice I have for dealing with the energy struggles you have. Maybe others have suggestions for you. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

My dear Vincent,

Thank you for sharing your story. It has been a long ardurous journey, with joys, pitfalls and despair. My heart feels deeply for you Vincent. I also understood and could relate to some of what you expressed in your above post.

Correct me if I am wrong, I believe that you are following a belief in Atman, and spiritual alchemy in your kundalini transformation. I was surprised to find that the use of the name Atman is also found among the Germanic people who use the name "Atmen".

For anyone unfamiliar with Atman:

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/ATMAN.HTM

Vincent it appears that you are following your path solitary and without a spiritual guru, am I correct in my assumptions?.

Since Gopi Krishna has helped you from the information written in his books, I would also continue to find further info from Krishna that may be of value and help to you. I do respect Krishna highly with his vast knowledge on kundalini having gone through the journey. Phil has also an excellent book on kundalini for not only Christians, but anyone going through a kundalini awakening.

Much love and blessings to you Vincent and prayers for Divine guidance in your journey. Please continue to share and reach out for help.

Vincent, what I suggested above might be considered as a kind of "ultimate resolution" of energy struggles -- basically, transferring our energy care to that of the Holy Spirit. My guess is that you're already familiar with a wide range of practical energy management methods from your yoga practice, but here are a couple of suggestions that have come to mind through the day today.

The first is Tai Chi, which, as I'm sure you know, is a kind of gentle meditative movement. Many have shared with me that they find this helpful; perhaps w.c. will say something about it.

The other is through use of your attention -- that you bring your awareness to the present moment, with an intent to lovingly interact with whatever is going on within you or about you. You might try feeling this intention in the heart, as the heart is the center where balance is restored. Use "be here now in love" as your focusing mantra, and, if you believe in Christ, keep asking for help to do this. If your energy feels lop-sided or painful, just notice it, but don't get too involved in trying to move things one way or another (I'm sure you know what I mean; apologies to readers who wonder what the hell? . . . not your everyday topic, to be sure). Energy follows attention, and that includes kundalini. So this practice of being here now in love eventually configures one's energy accordingly. Again, this all goes better if you call on Christ or the Holy Spirit to help.

Let us know how it goes.

Vincent:

One thing you might have already considered is how technique-oriented approaches to kundalini are inherently limited, especially if we consider the prospect of death that awaits us. In doing hospice work for so long, I've never seen anybody meditate in the technique-oriented sense. In each case there is always a surrender to something much larger than the self, and which has a clear and profound relational quality.

This could be motivation for considering the relational path in response to kundalini, such as a bahkti-type devotional focus similar to what the Sufis describe. Phil's statement about energy following attention indicates the energy's need for relationship; that is, energy needs the attention of relationship. So what is often the basis of kundalini crisis is lack of relational intimacy to its Source, which is a loving Presence beyond, but including, the self. These relationships between kundalini, the transcendental Divine, and the self, allow each to have their own identity; whereas in technique-based approaches the intimacy of each having their own life is lost or misunderstood.

Maybe see if somewhere in your heart something like this makes sense, and then follow those subtler promptings in response to kundalini who is a fellow creature seeking the love of her Creator.

Hello.

Yes and thank you phil, the heart place is balancing this energy, but not enough, unfortunately. You are absolutly right and when i practice yoga, this happen naturely, it is what calm the pain since few years, naturally, plus physical exercices. I didn't realise that before, i just did it by instinct. But, to join or concentrate my volition on it, it makes appears others problems that i think you were experienced in the pass, i am right? When you want to manipulate the kundalini, a lot of knots appears everywhere, and especially in the throat and in the belly, in my case. not very pleasant. Make me feel so weack. So freack. So, that is why i am looking for another thing to do, without interfere with my thoughts and let the kundalini growning naturally up. In fact, my only thought is to erase all the thoughts. But i wasn't aware that this center was a balance center too... It will light a lot of things i experienced in the past. Yes... Maybe you gave me the key i was expected to...
But what a mess.
To answer to w.c, My surrender to something much larger than the self, is in the act of being without thoughts. The rest arrive by itself. We are this something much larger than the self already in our depth. And we are in the path of birth like we are in the death path too. The one that will live is this something much larger, and the one who will die is this something who is trying to cease it's mental activities. The personnality who finally die, is like a mental projection of the real human being in us. We are emanation of our soul. All the art is here. Being without being for the incarnation of the ultimate being.
And to answer to freebird, yes, i am following all that alone. I try in the past to found someone already made, but i failled. I just found some others guys like me, i mean in the dark and absolutly lost, but never with the kind of experience than mine. And yes, i think the christian story brings a lot of symbolic knowledge, and was not necessarily real. But who knows? When in my sentences i said atman i mean christ. But i can't said that i am waiting to join the seven chakras to being like the christ was. It sound so stupid that i preferred said atman. It is more abstract... And more realistic in the same time... For me, the christ represent human species in its complete realisation... Living in the univers without material support... That is my dream... I really dreamt about that... I have to tell you that your words very much touch me. God bless you too my friend.

I hope my deplorable english brings you some laugh, witch is an other kind of good energy... With all my goods feelings,

vincent

"To answer to w.c, My surrender to something much larger than the self, is in the act of being without thoughts. The rest arrive by itself. We are this something much larger than the self already in our depth. And we are in the path of birth like we are in the death path too. The one that will live is this something much larger, and the one who will die is this something who is trying to cease it's mental activities. The personnality who finally die, is like a mental projection of the real human being in us. We are emanation of our soul. All the art is here. Being without being for the incarnation of the ultimate being."


Vincent:

Obviously we all follow our own intuition, but for what it's worth, the invitation is to surrender to something beyond your own efforts, including your effort to not make effort. I know what Phil and I are describing sounds like non-duality, or this larger space of the witnessing self, but that is in fact not what we're pointing to. Both Phil and I, and others here at Shalom, know this non-duality you speak of, and the quiet presence of the big mind's suchness, but this again is not the transcendental presence into which we die. Were you to open yourself devotionally just as an honest experiment, you might find this greater Presence which is a relational gift beyond the capacities of the self or soul. Dying people simply do not speak of this greater Presence as their own souls, or some greater depth of their own beingness, but as a Presence to which they belong which is yet not themselves.

My sense is that what you're describing is a state of constant effort you cannot escape, regardless of how subtle your attempts at letting go of effort are. Transcendental grace gives a rest and peace the human faculties, however refined, simply cannot contrive anymore than they can create this physical existence; hence, our inability to create from nothing, and our existence, reveal life to be a gift reflecting this utterly Transcendental Reality. This also seems to explain why the present moment in inherently unstable, as it, along with our minds, are creations beyond our own facility as well. Just as the soul is a creature unable to create itself and its physical embodiment, so too is the present moment a space-time reflection of an irreducible Eternal Reality. And, as Phil has pointed out elsewhere, were the human mind or self or soul truly Divine, or its own unrealized source, it would be the predominating power that would make all this struggle you are describing short-lived and easy to resolve. Even fully realized kundalini masters, such as Shri Dyanyogi Madhusudandasji, were not able to avoid decay and death and assume full identity with the Divine.

Receiving life as a gift is much easier on the kundalini than assuming we are its creator when we have none of the power to actualize such an ultimate notion. From a Christian, or even theistic point-of-view, the self that lives beyond death, but cannot create its own life, is dependent upon God for its spiritual growth and the resolution of these kundalini imbalances.

to w.c

I am sorry but you are totally wrong. You don't understand what i am talking about.
What can i said to this? And why do you seems so bitter? did you live with your conscience in the seven th chakras open for days? Do you know this state? Do you know by experience what happening when you do that in your core? Or are you just waiting to live what you read? Are you also ready to share your experience with me? And, more of all, can you answer me like i was a 5 years old boy, i don't understand quite well your responses.

Vincent:

I've been through my own version of kundalini crisis over the past 15 years, which continues, but it would be useless to compare one to another. It wasn't my intention to condescend, so I apologize for coming across that way. However, we've had so many people in crisis come here to Shalom with extensive chakra/kundalini awakenings and who have found, and reported, the vast difference between non-duality and devotional surrender, with the latter allowing God to do what only God can do, and taking the burden off of kundalini who is only a creature seeking God. This has literally been the finding of those people I'm referring to, and so don't take my seriousness for bitterness. I'm not the least bit jeoulous of somebody in the throes of a crisis like what you're describing.

So yes, I'll share my experience with you if you really think that would be helpful; however, understand that the view of kundalini here is based largely upon Christian mystical insight into the creaturely status of the energies that aren't their own source and therefore probably cannot right-itself/herself without opening to transcendental grace. And the latter, transcendental grace, is not some accomplishment based upon years of meditating or intensive practice as you've described in terms of kundalini awakening, but simply a consent to God who is more than any of the human faculties so that the ego and the self can relax from a responsibility not their own.

Also, the encouragement to consider a devotional path needn't be toward a Christian one if that evokes a strong aversion. Just an intuitive sense of being a creature and letting the longing to love and be loved open us seems enough for many people.

Hi Vincent,

I see much love, light and hope in your kundalini process expressed within your own words. You are aware of love within your heart and you recognize same. You also express humor knowing that it is good energy and good feelings.

The integration of the kundalini and its transformation can catapult us into despair and darkness, followed by joys beyond comprehension. Vincent for you the surrender to something much larger than self, is in the being without thoughts. SILENCE.

Your quote:

We are this something much larger than the self already in our depth. And we are in this path of birth like we are in the death path too.
--------------------------------------------

You are being guided Vincent, led and watched over by what you call much larger than the self. For me the much larger than self is God and Christ to whom I have entrusted my kundalini integration and transformation together with the Holy Spirit.

Believe it Vincent when I tell you that I have never done yoga, mantras, nor even knew what kundalini was all about ten years ago. I totally entrust myself to God and let go of all and everything within my own doing. Like a new born baby I depend upon everything what you call something greater than self.

I die daily, as you are doing as well, and I have given my all and everything to God. So there is nothing to fear during trials because I know that God watches over me, like He watches over you.

We are all the beloved offspring of God and what loving father and mother would ever with-hold anything good from their children.

So in your continued path Vincent, know that you are loved deeply for we come from love and to love we return which is our true state of being. Surrender and trust.

I like your sense of humor about making an excuse in the proper writing of the english language. I also was born in Europe and wrote and spoke like you. It brings back memories and I just love it. I understand you very clearly Vincent.

Am glad you are here to share with us, and hope you will continue to do so.

Much love to you Vincent and many blessings in your brave pursuit within the kundalini path.

Freebird

One of the things that happens so often in inter-religious sharing is the discovery that people are using words in different ways, and that makes communication really difficult.

E.g. vincent: And yes, i think the christian story brings a lot of symbolic knowledge, and was not necessarily real. But who knows? . . . For me, the christ represent human species in its complete realisation...

That's helpful, for it shows not only what vincent means by "Christ," but indicates something of what he's probably hearing when we someone else speaks of Christ. I can see where turning to Christ in this sense wouldn't be very helpful advice to one with energy struggles.

For those of us who are regulars on this forum, Vincent, we mean something different by Christ -- a person who lived, died, and rose from the dead . . who is real, not merely symbolic . . . one whom we can know through faith as our master-guru. This implies a relationship with an-Other, and that's what w.c. was suggesting. I agree with him that while these energies are fundamentally oriented to the awakening of the "big self," that everything goes better when that's done in a relationship with an even higher, transcendent Being, whom we call God. And for Christians, God is not the same as the "big self," but beyond that.

Let's hang in there patiently as we try to understand what is being described and how we're using various words. We all stand to learn more from each other, and, hopefully, help one another with some of our energy struggles.

(Your English is fine, Vincent; I do follow what you're saying.)

okay, excuse me. when i read what i had write, it light that i am in trouble, carying some madness in my story, some contradictions and a lot of pride displaced about my experience. I feel so stupid. The fault is to myself, i assimilated for years some archetypes very strong and my life brings me too much clues on it, like if i had to be aware of what's appening in me. I leave with the thought that i am maybe and certainly mad all the time too. So, my beleif is that there is something alive in me, independantly than myself, witch are waiting to make the union with the conscious of univers and being part of it. I said conscious of the univers because it doesn't brings in me some kind of madness. That is why i can't be no more mystique or allow myself to talk about that too much. if you knew all the parts of my story you will understand i thinck. But it will chocks you because it includes some black parts. And thoses parts are pure madness even if life gave me some proof of it. Becose i feel living since the start of all that, right in the middle of a war, very attract by the white way, but also very able in the other side. For example, i did some black magic things spontaneously with too much results, involving my kundalini in that... And the other side brings too much madness too with its meanings ans visions. I am full of love and hate in fact when i am not in the yoga posture. So for my health, i stopped trusting anymore of all that, exept for the burning flux, witch can't be erase... Even what i see in the dark, chakras and all that beautiful fog with lights in it, i don't allow myself to watch it to much.
If there is a jealous in here it is me, because you are in peace and i never will... no, i will... I respect very much your way and your relation with the holly spirit. I try yesterday night to let the flux of the kundalini live in the call of god in a devotion attitude, to follow your advices. I was very mystique in the past. I don't have to make efforts in fact. And you are right again, the kundalini react very very quickly when god is in question, it jump from down directly to the top like it never does so strong habitually, because i calm it by closing all the mystique attitude, trying to see what is in me with a scientific eye, but it brings a lot of pain in ajna again. I only try 5 secondes. If i tried more the pain can stay for days and months. No. I will concentrate on the heart exclusively, in the balance attitude trying to found peace this way.
I will not disturb you anymore with my madness and stupidity and maybe i will meet a psychologue to spell all i got in the heart out of me like everybody does when you are in trouble with your mind. It is time to stop talking about me. anyway thanck you very much for all your efforts and love and patience. You are good people but i can't allow myself speaking no more about god or the christ without puting my mental health in danger, awaking all the archetypes that my life brings by living my mystic personnality, and confronting my experience to yours to make you understand what i am talking about in some spirituals terms, because it brings my conscience in a mad belief of myself. So i will retrun to the book i was writing before all thoses efforts i made to write you in english, witch is about to overturn the actual way of materialist thinks to find again, by assimilating the scientist founds and the natural logic, the most old dream of humanity... Without no mystic sens, just pure logic. I thinck it is in my abillities and makes no trouble inside me... Observing the life in its multitudes is a real joy for me. I am full in love about the creation, about life and forces in the univers.
to wc, sorry too, i read your words with an other tone than you put in it. i really feel stupid. so all my apologizes my friend. i warn you since the beginning, i am a kind of stupid guy.
you are wise guys and wise woman, no doupt about it.
God loves you.
good bye
vincent

Ditto w.c.'s remarks about returning any time you wish.

I had a few more thoughts to share, so let's go back to this:

quote:

Yes and thank you phil, the heart place is balancing this energy, but not enough, unfortunately. You are absolutly right and when i practice yoga, this happen naturely, it is what calm the pain since few years, naturally, plus physical exercices. I didn't realise that before, i just did it by instinct. But, to join or concentrate my volition on it, it makes appears others problems that i think you were experienced in the pass, i am right? When you want to manipulate the kundalini, a lot of knots appears everywhere, and especially in the throat and in the belly, in my case. not very pleasant. Make me feel so weack. So freack. So, that is why i am looking for another thing to do, without interfere with my thoughts and let the kundalini growning naturally up. In fact, my only thought is to erase all the thoughts.

I understand what you're saying. No, we do not want to overly intensify any kind of Egoic intention to "direct" the process or "manage" it, for this does cause constrictions of energy flow that show up as "knots" and imbalances of all kinds. What seems most natural is for the Ego to contemplatively rest in the flow of energy that seeks to embody the higher consciousness of the Self. The problem is that when this flow is already out of balance, this consent furthers the depth and intensity of the imbalance. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, of course.

But, note that some kind of intentionality is at work no matter what the Ego does. For example, consenting to resting, or even "my only thought is to erase all the thoughts." Also: "Living in the univers without material support... That is my dream... I really dreamt about that..."

All of this suggests a deep commitment on your part to realizing what we might call "pure spiritual consciousness." This has entailed activation of archetypal processes, and, for whatever reason, even an investigation of black magic.

So here you are, wide-open, with a very deep intention already established in the depth of your being. And because we are humans and have bodies, your nervous system and all sorts of other physiological processes are being affected. There also might be spirits from the "dark side" that have gained entry into the psychological dimension of your being, or even attached themselves to your energy. As you put it -- a mess!

All is not lost, however, Vincent, though you might have lasting energy ordeals. Who knows? I'm sure there's a way out if you're willing to pursue it. Here are a few suggestions, some of which we've already shared:

1. Do what you can to "lower the thermostat." Physical exercise. A heavier diet. Less meditation. Go slow with this, however, for, as you know, going too fast will be very painful. Even going slowly with be difficult.

2. Slowly, gently, turn your attention to God. Remember, there's already an intentionality at work, but it's toward pure, disembodied spiritual consciousness. Keep nurturing this new intentionality by talking to God as though God were a person walking along side of you all the time.

3. Learn about Christ. I do not want to be proselytizing, but I've found that He is really the only one who can set these matters straight. When you're ready, call upon Him to save you.

4. By all means, stay away from any involvements with the dark side, black magic, etc.

We are never lost, Vincent, not as long as we can reason and have free will. Hang in there.