(Received from "E" via email: 2/2/04; shared with permission.

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Hello Romain,

I have had an experience in the last month that has completely changed my life and my way of thinking. I was born Catholic and later when my mother divorced and remarried raised Southern Baptist. I was saved when I was 16. I am now 26. A part of me would never accept the �hellfire damnation sermons� I was raised on. That type of thinking just never had any harmony inside of me. The last couple years of my life had been hell. I could not understand the sufferings of the world and of the self. For years I have been trying to �understand� human suffering and my own personal �demons� that plagued me. Then I started to realize that the demon that plagued me was fear. Fear that had been established in my ego by years of dogmatic teachings that practically �paralyzed� me spiritually. The last couple months I kept having a thought that I could not shake. The thought was that I was not who I thought I was. I had these strange thoughts that I was not anything more than an eternal being having a human experience. I kept thinking all I have to do is remember who I am. Through disciplines that I myself developed I learned to teach myself to remember the revelation that I had started. I started counting the steps I would take to the car in the morning. This sounds weird but if I kept thinking of myself as an observer in a �robot human body� I would continue to be self aware. Not just normal self awareness but I was also aware that I was self aware. This took a lot of practice. Because when you are not self aware you are basically a �slave� to your ego. This awareness began to permeate my being. When I would remember my self awareness it was like I was asleep and had just aroused myself. It was like when I was not self aware I just existed like an animal just tending to its natural desires. While I was engaged to this self discipline I had no profound experiences. But at times of intense self awareness I would find myself getting lost in the admiration of the beauty of the whole mystery of creation. At times things would appear to be so beautiful that I would burst out into laughter. I just found inner self awareness so blissful that all I could do was laugh. It felt like my whole life I had been playing a joke on myself. Only I was always waiting for myself to get the joke only and it took 26 years to do so. But this experience was only adolescent compared to the experiences to come later. Words are very hard to describe these experiences. Since like you said the moment they are gone the memories of them starts to erode. Your ego tries to analyze what happen and starts to reason with the experience. But you do remember that during the experience you had perfect clarity. The thing that intrigues me the most is that when I have these experiences I feel as though they are very familiar. I always felt this sentence run through my thought process �Hey I knew that�. But of course when the experience goes away you try to fathom that if you really knew that then how come you don�t know it now. Then my mind always longs for the experience again. The longing to have the experience again feels very much like a lover separated from his love. During the experience I always feel like a lover reunited with his love. Somehow during the experience I understand the reason for creation. I feel the reason for creation is to be separated from source and then to rediscover the connection to source and then to delight in the discovery. This is the most beautiful part of creation that I have stumbled onto. I hope that makes sense to you. Now I go onto the the Christian aspect of my enlightenment.

Now I pose this question. Can you apply Enlightenment to Christianity? I believe so. Not only do I believe so I now believe that Enlightenment itself is wholly Christian alone. To grasp this idea you have to dissect the dogma of what a true Christian is. I have been going to church my whole life. Yet I have not found many people who reflect an image of Christ. The only people who seem to do this are enlightened people. Yet most are not Christians. But what is a Christian? Is it a noun or is it a verb? I believe it is a verb. I also believe that Christ can come into someone�s heart and yet they do not understand the �western� definition of Christ. When I think of a true Christian I think of Christ. Then I think of the Apostles. These people were the true reflections of Christ. So what did these Apostles have that set them apart from others? They had the gift of the Holy Spirit. A gift of grace. What are the attributes of someone endowed with this gift? Compassion and unconditional brotherly love towards all living things. What did Christ teach? The same thing. What attributes do enlightened people possess? The same thing. But if someone from an �eastern� background exhibits these attributes we as Christians would naturally dismiss it as a heathen religion. But yet I say we can know someone by their fruits. If someone shows all the signs of Christian fruit but a different mental name is applied to it why is it automatically dismissed by us? To some people they honestly believe Christ is some kind of cracker that the Priest gives them to eat on Sunday. Is that Christ? I think not. We teach if you are not saved you will burn in hell. What is salvation and how do we know that we have been saved? I have heard Pastors tell people that you do not experience any changes after salvation. That you should accept your salvation and continue life on faith. But what do you have faith in? How can you have faith in something when you don�t even have an understanding of what is going on? Are people really supposed to buy into that? No, of course not and they don�t. People only leave the church that day with as little understanding of God as they had when they showed up. Only they feel a little better about themselves because they have eased their conscience for the week. Now they can go home and continue life as normal. So basically the church is nothing more than a place a person can go to purge their conscience. No where in that do I see a resemblance to what Christ was teaching. Basically it boils down to this. Enlightenment appears to be a reflection of a person who is endowed with the Holy Spirit. Let us remember who sent the Holy Spirit. Let us also remember what the Bible says of those who blasphemy the Holy Spirit. Also why did Christ show so many characteristics of enlightenment? Well because he was God that is why. Was he enlightened? No. How could he that is God, be enlightened? Enlightenment only applies to those of us who are �asleep� in ourselves. Or you can say �Slaves to their sins�. God had nothing to wake up from. But what did he teach us? To be like him. Now I go on to my personal revelation.

First of all I am not completely enlightened. I have had only glimpses. I did not start out the search for enlightenment. Enlightenment searched for me. It fell on my lap per say. My most profound experience began after I had begun receiving these glimpses. I was confused about them. I wanted more of them. But when I tried to have one I could never switch them on. They always came to me when I was unaware. They always caught me off guard. Actually the harder I tried to have them the less of them I would have. So I prayed to God the Father and asked him for truth. I confessed all my sins and asked for forgiveness and thanked him for the experiences that I had. The next day I was lying in bed next to my wife. I just had an urge to watch her sleep. I was also having one of my awakenings at that time. As I began to stare at her the most profound experience to date happened. I kept staring at her and kept asking. Who are you? Who are you really? Then I started asking, Who am I? Who am I really? Of course I was asking these question inside of myself not out loud. Then as I began to ask I felt like my body was starting to dissolve. It was not alarming at first. It felt really good to be honest. At that moment I got it? I figured it all out. The veil of ignorance had been completely removed from me. I now not only saw through my eyes but at that moment I saw through her eyes. And I saw through the eyes of my infant son. As if I was the one looking through them. I was so connected to them that I was them. I felt a connection to them that transcended the normal family term of love. I felt as though I was looking at them through the eyes of Christ. It was so beautiful. I had complete and total awareness. Then I transcended that awareness and glimpsed God consciousness. At that moment I marveled at the mystery. Everything was as it should be. Brotherly love was flowing through every atom in my body and yet it went deeper than the atom. I had exposed the observer. Then I took my focus from myself and my family and turned it toward God. It felt like a direct connection at that point. I felt God�s love burning through my being like millions of volts of electricity. Then I would amplify the love and send it back. He would then amplify the love millions more and send it back. This continued for a few moments. When the love was getting sent back and forth through a direct connection it was instantaneous. Then I felt my body dissolving even more. I felt that in order to receive more love I would have to shed the body. The body didn�t even make sense to me even more. As the love was flowing answers to questions I didn�t even know I had started flowing into my consciences. I thought I was dying. It felt good. It was strange because I then felt like I have died before. It was strangely familiar. Then a thought crept into my mind. It was fear. After that thought my ego started struggling with the experience. It was urging me to regain control of the experience or I would die. So I cried out loud to the Lord to please make it stop for surely you will kill me. Then it dropped me to the floor. I felt like a fish out of water. I could still feel the love pulsating through my body and I broke out into tears. It was so beautiful. I wish others could experience what I did. The love and truth stayed with me for a couple days. I could see people and how they really reacted within their environment. I felt an overwhelming urge to go out and evangelize my new experience. I felt like every person was a sister or brother to me. But like ever other time the experience faded. Since then I have not had any other experiences and I am starting to feel depressed about the whole thing. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on my experience and if they share any similarities to yours. Like I said before words don�t really do the experience any justice. Take care.


E.

Hi, I found this forum and the story Phil shared is mine. I decided to register in able to take part in any discussions. Feel free to criticize or ask freely. Because I am totally ignorant to what happened and I am still reflecting on the experience and what it means. I do not know why it happened to me. But there were other things I was doing and reading about prior to the experience. While I may feel the experience was a gift of grace, I was also doing things that were not "regular" that lead to the experience. Maybe it is possible that even prior to the search for something more, grace itself was already in effect. The fear of death is really what lead me on the search for truth. My life changing experience was the day after the tsunami. I saw images on the internet of the dead bodies. This terrified me. I looked at the bodies and forsaw that yes I too will be a decomposing dead body. I was torn between believing in an afterlife and beleiving that death is the end of existance. I tell you the truth. That the fear of death has haunted me my whole life. I now know that this fear has enabled me to do great sins. Because in accepting death as the end of existance it allowed me to place myself on the throne of the universe. I was not accountable to anything I did. It actually hardened my heart to great evil. It didn't matter what I did. I just lived it up at other people's expense. I did great evil that I will not share here. Now after my experience I do not fear death anymore as the end of existance. I now however fear death in the fact that I now realize that I am accountable for all my sins. This continues to haunt me day and night. I was in effect "a slave to my sins". After my experience I feel that I am not a slave to my sins. I feel like I am more accountable now because I am aware that I can choose to sin or not to. So with a choice I am free from "slavery". Not a moment goes by these days that I am not aware of myself and of God. I feel his eyes peering over every little action and thought that I do. There is nowhere to hide anymore. There is no more second guesing or sin justification. A sin is a sin. I have chosen to sin on some occasions. I don't know why I do it. But I feel guilt that is unimaginable now when I do. Since my experience I can see good and evil for what it truly is. The world appears to be so much more evil now than it did. Everyone else in my normal everyday interactions appears to be asleep and not to see the evil that engulfs them. I know because I was asleep once also. This is such agony because it appears that nothing I say or day appears to "arouse" them from their slumber. I have only met a few that are aware that they too are "awake" and it is easy to recognize each other. I tell you the truth that most of the world is "asleep" and only a few are awake. Scream as we might into the ears of those who are asleep we can not awaken them. As I am sure others in my life who were awake did the same to me while I was in my slumber, they did so in vain. Truly this is a gift of grace. To some who read this they will not be "allowed" to understand what I say. Who allows this? I don't know. I think it is God and I think this is his good pleasure. I do not know what it means to be awake. I do not think it is a guarenteed ticket to heaven. I think just the opposite. I feel like I will go to hell now more than ever. But I do think it is literally a wake up call. I do have a feeling that those who are awake that they have to pick up their cross and carry it. I have met others in my state who agree. I have met others who can not handle all of this responsibility and have given up. They have told me they feel like they will go to hell now. I agree. I feel the same. Although I feel like I have not yet given up it is so burndonsom to carry on. It is truly hell on Earth. Those who are "awakened" and do not carry the cross will get it worse in the end then those who are "asleep". Because they know better. They know what they are supposed to do. I am truly at a cross-road. You have all encountered those who are in a waken state. They are the people who truly try to keep themselves disconnected from the world. They are the ones who shun materialism. This is the only way. The path to heaven is narrow. It is so narrow that it is almost completely impossible to find it. Christians who truly delight in their religoin I do envy them. Whoever tells you that being a Christian is an easy job is not telling you the truth. If you disagree then please show me any of the Disciples in the Bible who had it "easy". Do you really think that these apostles of Jesus had to go through so much torture to get to heaven and all you have to do is have faith and continue your normal way of life? Even the evil one knows who Jesus is. I don't mean to be a drag but currently this is how I see things.

quote:

I felt like every person was a sister or brother to me. But like ever other time the experience faded. Since then I have not had any other experiences and I am starting to feel depressed about the whole thing. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on my experience and if they share any similarities to yours.

I've never had an experience such as you described, Eric, and if I did I might spend my whole life trying to recapture it. If you look at a graph of a normal ECG of the heart, you'll see some spikes and valleys denoted. I'm not a doctor (I only play one on TV), but I believe each one of those peaks represents the normal electric "shock" to the heart muscle that our nervous system provides so that the heart can contract (beat) and do it's job. But even if my medical knowledge isn't up to snuff, the analogy holds: We're probably far better off, at least on this earth, living our lives in the stableand less traumatic "baseline" periods between the peaks and valleys. And surely if our life "stops" (or is hitting a dead-end) a little jolt of God to one's existence is just the ticket to jump-start your life again, eh?

So consider all of us here brothers and sisters for the time being in the boring here and now, for normalcy can be a heck of a good place depending on where one has been.

Eric:

The human faculties are simply not capable of perfection. I know this may not be helpful to hear, since you are so wide open to the difference between God and man. But no human can be sinless, for even the saints in the Unitive State are still human beings - creatures that are actively dying and still depend upon God's infusion of love, and yet must function in this world where, as St. Paul says, "Now we see but dimly, through a mirror darkly, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I'm fully known." We cannot know as we are known, but in a non-dual state, where human perception has been blown-open, it seems everything falls within our perception. St. Paul also knew: "Now I live, but not I, but Christ in me." Nevertheless, he continually knew the difference between his creaturely state and the creator, and that perfection of the soul would only come after death, and not through the soul itself. This was his "thorn" of imperfection, and he was told quite clearly it would never be removed, as "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Not Paul's perfection, but God's through the resurrected Christ, and through the openess of human frailty to God when it is accepted. It sounds like you have had a death of sorts, and your mind-body shorn of its ability to screen out certain higher energies that the mundane-orienting faculties can't keep up with.

There is a significant difference between englightenment, wherein kundalini arouses deep perception of creation, along with various other psychic powers, and the way the Holy Spirit is understood to tenderly operate within and beyond the human faculties. The human faculties cannot, by nature, directly handle the Uncreated, and this means kundalini cannot manage the transformation process by itself. Your experiences sound like a kundalini deeply aroused without the gradualness of change that would leave the faculties intact. Without intact faculties conditioned through a slow and long process of maturation, you could be overwhelmed with an immensity your nervous system either isn't mature enough to handle, or not even meant to.

Brad has a point: you are a creature and have the right to behave like one. You won't go to hell for this, or if so, it will be an awfully crowed place, full of every soul created. But the saints do describe the suffering you mention, where they are broken-hearted not to be able to love God in kind, as he loves us, or be the perfectly compassionate servant of his creation. Saints eventually seem to surrender to this limited state, and the few I've met appear quite ordinary and are not pre-occupied with their experiences or the status of their souls.

I've experienced Christ's presence in prayer, as well as a dropping away of the internal dialogue and that sense of vastness you describe where the body and observer dissolve, and the two are sourced differently: one in the temporary non-dual realm of creation, and the other beyond the created order that can't be directly filtered through the human nervous system. In either case, reaching perfection isn't possible, since it is an impossible task by design, and one never meant to take place through human will anyway. But I suspect this does nothing to comfort you.

My sense is that you are actually too open for your own good, but perhaps closed in other places that need respecting just as a simple human being among others; it may include a kind of spiritual pride that emerges when we go from being asleep to profoundly awake, and back-and-forth with little moderation in-between the experiences. Let other people love you, and don't consider them too asleep to know better.

quote:

I feel the reason for creation is to be separated from source and then to rediscover the connection to source and then to delight in the discovery. This is the most beautiful part of creation that I have stumbled onto.

Whether that's true or not, I don't know. But that's a wonderfully poetic thought, Eric. Surely we all get pleasure from discovery and new knowledge. It's built into us. We strive for it like a harmless addiction. Sherlock Holmes would say that that is pretty good evidence about the nature of ourselves and the nature of existence.

quote:

Not only do I believe so I now believe that Enlightenment itself is wholly Christian alone. To grasp this idea you have to dissect the dogma of what a true Christian is. I have been going to church my whole life. Yet I have not found many people who reflect an image of Christ. The only people who seem to do this are enlightened people. Yet most are not Christians. But what is a Christian? Is it a noun or is it a verb? I believe it is a verb. I also believe that Christ can come into someone�s heart and yet they do not understand the �western� definition of Christ. When I think of a true Christian I think of Christ. Then I think of the Apostles. These people were the true reflections of Christ. So what did these Apostles have that set them apart from others? They had the gift of the Holy Spirit. A gift of grace. What are the attributes of someone endowed with this gift? Compassion and unconditional brotherly love towards all living things. What did Christ teach? The same thing. What attributes do enlightened people possess? The same thing. But if someone from an �eastern� background exhibits these attributes we as Christians would naturally dismiss it as a heathen religion.

This is good stuff, in my opinion. Eric, you don't seem to have the heart of a fundamentalist. You seem to have a wide perspective and maybe it's always been this way for you to some extent. But let me take a different approach to enlightenment if only to saw off any rough edges and/or to provide some contrast. Now, I must first admit that as far as I know I've had few if any enlightened experiences. Keep this in mind. My discourse could be tinged with a little sour grapes. And goodness knows I've tried to develop a "higher consciousness" and higher awareness through meditation and just plain ol' observation. I haven't always been very successful. Given the choice I would take that higher, blissful state of mind 24 hours a day. But I'm resigned thoroughly to the fact that this will never likely happen. Clearly it is possible though for some. With all these disclaimers on the table let me then say that I think enlightenment can be thought of as one wonderful ingredient among the entire spectrum of human sensory capabilities. I think it's completely normal to have high and low times of enlightenment just as we have high and low times of love or compassion or joy. That's what makes us human. Of course, we certainly are right to want to develop those kinder, gentler attributes. We are right to want to develop understandings that bring peace and harmony rather than conflict and discord. And while I won't discount the tremendous value of the presence of those who are truly enlightened (Jesus, Buddha, etc.), I think we ought to look to some of our bread-and-butter disciplines to guide us mere humans in our quest for peace rather than higher emotions or states of mind that could easily come or go. We can develop our intellect and other disciplines to help guides us in between those spurts of compassion, love, or enlightenment and I think it is incumbent on us to do so for I'm not sure I'd want a bunch of mystics running the hospitals or power plants, if you know what I mean.

But I believe you are correct when you say that many of us (or all of us at some time or another) are walking around half awake. I also believe this to be a cause of some of our problems here on earth. But I wouldn't chalk up "awareness" as even the primary cause, at least in my estimation, for I've read some of the political and social ideas from those who are, by all accounts, truly enlightened and often they just don't have a clue. There is so much more to wisdom than just enlightenment, although I would include it as a prime ingredient.

And please, just as you offered yourself, feel free to disagree with me.

Some good preachin' goin' on here. I don't feel so bad about missing the Billy Graham rerun last night!


Quotation [82] Towards the end of Chapter 5, lecture VII of Varieties of Religious Experience, The Life of Reverend Mr. Henry Alline describes a similar experience.

http://human-nature.com/reason/james/chap5.html

Eric, I relate to the awakening and subsequent let down which you describe. Traveling over the same hills and valleys. It does get old, but God knows the end from the beginning, and I don't share His perspective. There must be a million out there who are going through it. I want to share the mystics with them, if I could only find them. Would they hear?

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

. . . I do have a feeling that those who are awake that they have to pick up their cross and carry it. I have met others in my state who agree. I have met others who can not handle all of this responsibility and have given up. They have told me they feel like they will go to hell now. I agree. I feel the same. . . .

I see you're getting some good feedback, Eric, so I'll just chime in briefly. I don't think we're judged worthy of heaven on the basis of our spiritual experiences -- maybe not even how "awake" we are. What seems to be the case, instead, is whether our will is fundamentally oriented to goodness, truth, God, etc. Given this understanding, one can easily see the value of a religious experience, in that it provides empirical reassurance of the reality of God/Christ and confidence concerning the basis of Christian faith and hope.

A couple of nuns who are over 80 years old meet with me regularly for spiritual direction; neither can recount one, single extraordinary mystical experience in their entire lives! These holy women exude peace and love, however, so there's no doubting the presence of God working in and through them. It's not about religious experience! Not!

There's a certain mystery about who has these experiences, and why. Maybe we never fully understand during our lives. What I encourage is for those who have them to accept them in gratitude, and to persist in living the Christian life with no eye on their return, and not judgment concerning their presence or absence. It's natural to want to live in glory all of the time, but our nervous systems could not handle it. That's usually why there's something of a let-down after one has an experience of this kind -- the nervous system is raw and depleted for awhile.

Enough for now. As I noted in an email to you, spiritual direction would be beneficial for you. I hope you follow up on the suggestion.

Phil said: A couple of nuns who are over 80 years old meet with me regularly for spiritual direction; neither can recount one, single extraordinary mystical experience in their entire lives! These holy women exude peace and love, however, so there's no doubting the presence of God working in and through them. It's not about religious experience! Not!

Now THAT'S a transformative and inspirational story if ever there was one.

There's a certain mystery about who has these experiences, and why. Maybe we never fully understand during our lives. What I encourage is for those who have them to accept them in gratitude, and to persist in living the Christian life with no eye on their return, and not judgment concerning their presence or absence. It's natural to want to live in glory all of the time, but our nervous systems could not handle it. That's usually why there's something of a let-down after one has an experience of this kind -- the nervous system is raw and depleted for awhile.

I sense much wisdom in that advice.

As I noted in an email to you, spiritual direction would be beneficial for you. I hope you follow up on the suggestion.

I hope he does because from his writing alone you can see a tremendous and forceful human spirit -- one that perhaps really should seek guidance in order to channel all that marvelous energy more productively and less destructively.

Thanks you everyone for your advice. I have jsut sent an email to Phil. I was going to wait for Phil to post this because I thought I wouldn't have time but I decided to post anyway.

Hi Phil,



I just wanted to get back to you on my story. So much has happened. I have been on a spiritual roller-coaster ride that almost cost me my life. I last left off with you on some negative emails and a bad forum post. I was going through a troubling time so I hope you excuse all the rash behavior. The problem was that what I was experiencing was in constant conflict with my religious ideas. I had confused spirituality with religion. Well, I don�t even know where to start. So I will start from the beginning.



During the time of our last email I starting diving into eastern philosophies and that is where the problem started. I started reading Gnostic Christian scriptures and thought I too could be like Christ. I thought that was the goal. I started meditating and reading etc etc. I started to develop chest pains. They were really bad. Then I got ill. I felt like I had the flu. I literally spent 3 weeks in bed. During this time I started to lose my mind. I started having panic attacks all the time. My subconscious mind started to overtake my conscience one. I didn�t know what was real anymore. I kept trying to force an experience and it only made things worse. My digestion was terrible. The doctors could find nothing wrong with me. I also started having heart palpitations. I started to get really mean again. It was hell Phil. I wanted to die. Every night before I went to bed the chest pains were so bad I thought I would not wake up in the morning. I believe I developed some type of anxiety disorder. Because my symptoms felt real, but medical evaluation suggested otherwise.



I couldn�t figure out where I went wrong. How could I get myself out of this hole I was in? I threw all of my Gnostic books away and just started to pray. I was so sorry for going of into this beaten path. Even though I still had all these negative symptoms, I was starting to see recovery. With God�s help and a lot of effort on my own, I nursed myself back to normal. I changed my diet to one more conducive with my needs. I exercised more and I pulled out my Catholic Bible and started reading scripture. It is a miracle that I made it out alive. Oh, my God is was so horrible. But things got better.



The experiences I tried to force before started happening normally when I followed God�s word and plan. They were more natural and full of love compared to the loss of self experiences I was having before.



I would like to cut and paste these experiences form my Journal I started keeping on my computer. So please excuse the lack of cohesion. Feel free to share these on your forum because I will not have time to go there anytime soon. I work so much it is hard to get free time. I am also interested in your take on all this. I have been feeling great the last 2 weeks. I feel �blissed out� most of the day. Thanks Take care���..





Feb. 20 2005



I have these strange feelings that start in my lower back and spread to my head. I feel huge amounts of love and energy when it happens. I start to feel connected to everything even inanimate objects. I feel like I am evolving or something but I also feel like a nut case. My wife wants me to see a shrink and I am starting to agree with her. I feel like when the energy rises to my head I am a stem and the petals are the universe. This is freaking me out and my heart beat goes through the roof! I get huge mood swings and stomach aches. I was going to kill a spider at work the other day but as I was starring at it I started to feel love for it?! Love for a spider!? As I was looking at it everything went away except for the spider. There was no me. There was only the experience of spider. There was total understanding for what was being perceived from the perspective of the spider. Time appeared to stop for that instant. While I was staring at the spider it briefly became the whole purpose of the universe. There was no job/no me/no tomorrow/no worries/no pain/ no pleasure/ there was only the complete existence of the spider held together with an awareness we shared. (a mutual love for each others awareness). Our awareness was bonded from what seemed to be a collective. The awareness itself appeared to be created from pure love. Whether the spider felt the same I can only wonder. But it does have some awareness. The reason I felt a connection is because our awareness came from the same source. I am learning this is true of all living things. When I am fully aware of my awareness a great beautiful mystery unfolds. Our awareness was created with pure love. So to recognize the simplest awareness within even a spider can jog the love that binds all things together. I also feel like I am something other than me in this body. My body feels tight all the time like it doesn't fit anymore. This is really freaking me out.



Feb. 25 2005



I felt myself, the floor I stood on, the things and people in the room, and all of the world outside; the total of everything that exist - to be one and the same. Just like that. The couch and TV were just as dead or alive as I was. Everything was made of the same material, everything was aware, and there was just one, equal awareness. I feel total stillness, peace; and certainty that nothing really matters - everything just "Is", but in that peace there is love, a relaxing kind of love.



Feb. 28 2005



The only bad part of the experience is where they happen. It is not cool when it happens when I am driving or at work. It would be nice to sleep normal also. It is taking some getting used to. I have a tooth ache and sleep used to be a relief. Well not when I am always conscience even when I sleep. I can be watching a dream or watching my mind think now while I am sleep and I can still feel my tooth ache and listen too what is going on in the tv in my room at the same time. That was a little weird at first. I've got like 3 hours sleep this week. I am starting to feel immense amounts of love and compassion. The love is a subtle sense of joy that we all share a common thing. We are only different because we think we are different. Sometimes the love is ecstasy. The most intense form of love I have felt was like a divine love. It was like a perpetual infinite heart-ache. It was a love with an infinite void to fill with more infinite love. It was snowing the other day and I felt like I was in a snow globe being held in God�s hand. Love is all that matters. Love is the glue that holds matter together. So then love is matter.



March 3 2005



There is no separation of thoughts. There is no ego. It feels like I am just one complete thought. I feel completely satisfied. It also feels like the "self" expands into infinity. The love is a feeling of being "in love" with everyone. I have feelings of loving everyone just the same as my family. The feeling I have for being here is to be "extracted" from the one single thought so that I can have my thoughts divided. So I can touch and feel and experience as an individual. Then I will leave this experience with a greater understanding of who I was before the experience. I feel somehow that it is so important to "remember" who you were before this life. Somehow there is a "longing" to reconnect to this thing I have felt. My mind and soul miss it. Whenever I "awaken" and rediscover my true-self there is extreme joy that over takes me. It feels so wonderful to rediscover myself then to lose it again only to rediscover it again in the future. It is like a wonderful game. Like a dance or something. Each time the discovery is just as new as the first. I feel a great appreciation of the self when this happens. When I am awakened I feel like I am in two places at once. Here on Earth and also in heaven.



March 5 2005



I read this from a book. It relates so much to my first experience.



Seeing with Your Heart
by Bradford Keeney, from Everyday Soul, pp. 88-89

�When our hearts are deeply touched, whether it�s from seeing a newborn child for the first time or melting into the eyes of our lover, we see with our hearts. Passion washes away any meandering curiosity or critical inquiry and allows us to fully accept and unconditionally merge with the objection of our attention. In this seeing there is less separation between the observer and the observed and the lover and the loved. We step outside of a judging eye and allow the beauty and holiness of the other to radiate a warmer and deeper seeing within our heart�



March 18 2005



Last night my wife and I were talking about Terri Schiavo and I started to have another awakening. It started and stayed in the heart area. I have not had an experience where it just stayed in one area. It started with the all familiar eerie feeling all over. A feeling like I am dying or that my ghost has somehow been stirred up. Then there is this "click" and then there is no me anymore. I felt one with a collective and I was showered in uncontrollable compassion and love. My heart was breaking into infinity and I started to panic because it was so overwhelming but then I just decided to allow it to flow. The moment I did that it started to overtake me. I got that familiar feeling of "hey I knew that". Like I had been playing a joke on myself. I was looking at my wife and at the same time I was looking through her. I saw a part of her that was shapeless and timeless and it was the same part of me that was shapeless and timeless. The only thing that mattered in the universe was love. Everything was perfect and how it should be. There is the feeling that you are about to make a breakthrough discovery but your experience just lingers at that point and never past it. Your are locked into the admiration of the mystery. You can put your finger on it but you can never get past the mystery. You can't reason the mystery and that is always what I try to do. When I was experiencing this I start to understand all my decisions. Why I am here etc. etc. Why people die etc. etc. There is an extreme loss of individual thoughts. All thoughts seem to be molded into one huge thought. The thought has a one sided view of what love is. There is a feeling of not wanting to deviate from the thought. The though feels greater than myself but at the same time it feels like a part of myself. During the experience I feel that is my natural state more than when I am not having an awakening.



The unusual part is that my wife is starting to have this too and last night she was experiencing the same as I was. For a while now my wife just did not understand. She confided in me last week that she was feeling depressed. I asked her to describe her feelings. She told me whenever she sees something bad in the world happening to another person that she is consumed in grief. That her heart breaks to the point that it hurts. She said that she feels like everyday people are part of her family. Like a stranger hurting is someone in her family. I had to smile because I knew of course it was not depression but an awakening heart. After I explained to her that was normal there was a huge sigh of relief. Now she embraces her feelings. But she has always been a gentle loving person. It should be easier for her to embrace. It shouldn't be a shock like it was for someone cold like me. But it is so much better that we go through this together.



I still can't get over the eerie feeling that overtakes me just before it happens. Like a ghost is descending on me. Have you ever seen a dead animal on the road and it was really gruesome? The feeling you get when you look at that is the same feeling I get just before my spiritual experiences. My skin will start to crawl and I feel an uneasy energy stir all through my being. Then huge amounts of love overtake me. Maybe that gross feeling is my ego being shed or something. I have read in NDE's that when people return to their body they smell sulfur and gross smells and then realize it is the returning to their ego's. That is when I start to panic because it is such an awful uneasy feeling.



But I have been praying that God would wake up my wife's heart. I know that had something to do with it.

It was snowing the other day and I felt like I was in a snow globe being held in God�s hand. Love is all that matters. Love is the glue that holds matter together. So then love is matter.

That description of what you�re undergoing is such exquisite poetry, Eric�as is the following:

The feeling I have for being here is to be "extracted" from the one single thought so that I can have my thoughts divided. So I can touch and feel and experience as an individual. Then I will leave this experience with a greater understanding of who I was before the experience. I feel somehow that it is so important to "remember" who you were before this life. Somehow there is a "longing" to reconnect to this thing I have felt. My mind and soul miss it. Whenever I "awaken" and rediscover my true-self there is extreme joy that over takes me. It feels so wonderful to rediscover myself then to lose it again only to rediscover it again in the future. It is like a wonderful game. Like a dance or something. Each time the discovery is just as new as the first. I feel a great appreciation of the self when this happens. When I am awakened I feel like I am in two places at once. Here on Earth and also in heaven.

And here follows more poetry worthy of Wordsworth:

The only thing that mattered in the universe was love. Everything was perfect and how it should be. There is the feeling that you are about to make a breakthrough discovery but your experience just lingers at that point and never past it. Your are locked into the admiration of the mystery. You can put your finger on it but you can never get past the mystery. You can't reason the mystery and that is always what I try to do.

And more of particular interest�

The unusual part is that my wife is starting to have this too and last night she was experiencing the same as I was. For a while now my wife just did not understand. She confided in me last week that she was feeling depressed. I asked her to describe her feelings. She told me whenever she sees something bad in the world happening to another person that she is consumed in grief. That her heart breaks to the point that it hurts. She said that she feels like everyday people are part of her family. Like a stranger hurting is someone in her family. I had to smile because I knew of course it was not depression but an awakening heart. After I explained to her that was normal there was a huge sigh of relief. Now she embraces her feelings. But she has always been a gentle loving person. It should be easier for her to embrace. It shouldn't be a shock like it was for someone cold like me. But it is so much better that we go through this together.

What a wonderful thing, and if you need any evidence that what you�re undergoing is healthy and that you are, more or less, handling it well, you need only remind yourself of what you wrote in the above paragraph.

Last night my wife and I were talking about Terri Schiavo and I started to have another awakening. It started and stayed in the heart area. I have not had an experience where it just stayed in one area. It started with the all familiar eerie feeling all over. A feeling like I am dying or that my ghost has somehow been stirred up. Then there is this "click" and then there is no me anymore. I felt one with a collective and I was showered in uncontrollable compassion and love. My heart was breaking into infinity and I started to panic because it was so overwhelming but then I just decided to allow it to flow.

I can�t pretend to say that I understand what is going on with you, Eric. But I do think that if we had extremely unhealthy urges that we had better not "just decide to allow it to flow". But what you�re undergoing, while obviously traumatic and confusing (and painful), seems to be a transformation toward love, so I would suggest sticking with your "let it flow" philosophy. But let me just post two more of your quotes as a sort of gentle, mindful warning:

I felt one with a collective and I was showered in uncontrollable compassion and love. My heart was breaking into infinity and I started to panic because it was so overwhelming but then I just decided to allow it to flow.

I have been on a spiritual roller-coaster ride that almost cost me my life.

If you ask me, it sounds like a great and good Spirit is at work in you Eric. Maybe the analogy right now is of being a car in a body shop after a lifetime of hard driving. There is much intensive work to be done�basically, an overhaul. The car is lifted up on the jacks and tires are removed, glass is replaced, and the engine re-worked. Sparks fly from the grinders as they smooth out dents in the metal body and the smoke of acetylene torches fills the air as the mangled rear bumper is cut away. But eventually this heavy work is completely and we�re sent on our way to something else. Perhaps that something else will be quite mundane (but soulful) by comparison or it will be something totally new. By the sound of your writing you could easily be a poet or preacher or teacher or missionary or�a mechanic. My advice is to not get too attached to this roller coaster and to therefore expect that these types of peak experiences are what life is all about. Every life will eventually get back to some sort of mundane "normal." On the other hand, it�s clear that your life will never quite be the same. The Mechanic in the Sky might indeed be preparing you for more adventurous roads. He may be fitting you with 4-wheel drive, a turbo-charged engine and 400 horses under the hood. Keep an open mind and loving heart. And most of all, remember what you said when you said: �but then I just decided to allow it to flow.

Eric, I hope you continue to relate the experience of your transformation. Your ability to describe what you�re undergoing is quite remarkable. Best of luck to you.

I never really stepped back and actually absorbed my own writing. I was always in a hurry to jot down the experience while it was still fresh in my mind.

The experiences are so beautiful in themselves that those are the only words my mind will allow me to type. Thanks for pointing that out to me Brad. I probably would have never noticed that.

All of your advice is very wise. But I am by no means a poet. Just an average guy. I feel that every person has it within themselves to open up the heart.

I do have days that are pretty normal. But the compassion is the one thing that always stays. There is a part of me that has changed forever. I have developed a cascading broken heart.

I could never have anticipated that something like this would ever happen to me. I have always been a very selfish uncaring person. Since my heart has been awakened it has let lose a flood-gate of love.

Some days the love and compassion hit me like tidal waves. I am overtaken with a wave of love and swept away with the flow of compassion. After the waves recede I am left a feeling of forgiveness like seashells are left on the beach after the tide goes out. Then I pick up the shells and share them with others. Because they are not mine alone to keep.

That is how I know my experience comes from God.

Brad, I also wanted to note. My troubles appeared to begin after I deviated away from traditional Christianity. That is from personal opinion though.

I have since embraced Christ more than ever. Christ has brought me joy and salvation. I might not always be happy but I always feel joy and love. That is better in my opinion.

I wish I would have never read anything about Gnostic Christianity. There is something very appealing about it and also very dangerous. It strays so close to the truth that it appears to be the truth. After much contemplation I have formed the opinion that it is not the truth.

When I reached a verse in the Gnostic scriptures that alluded to God needing man or he has nothing to be God over is very alarming. That is when I put the book down.

From now on I am not going to force anything. I will rest in God and allow him to guide me. That seems to work so much better for me. There were experiences at times that appeared to come from something other than God. Where ever they came from I can only wonder. Maybe from my subconscious.

Eric, thank you for updating us on your situation. I've been wondering how you were doing, as it sounded like you were having struggles with Christian teaching when you left off.

It's difficult to characterize your experiences; some of it seems along the lines of kundalini arousal, others like descriptions of Zen satori. I can see how they would tip the delicate balance between the conscious and unconscious aspects of your spirituality.

I think Brad has given you some great feedback. Taking it easy, going with the flow, not pushing too far, too fast. . . You seem to have come to the realization that it's important to be grounded in ordinary life and formed in the Word in one's approach to God. As the author of Hebrews puts it, "it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God," meaning -- if one is not properly prepared. Formation is important; let the Spirit take you to contemplation when the time is right.

Keep us posted.

Phil,can you explain more about satori. Also can you explain the relationship between enlightenment,satori, and kundalini. Are they part of a process or are they seperate things all together??

But I am by no means a poet.

I'm not trying to embarrass you or make you self-conscious about it, Eric, but I beg to differ. Especially when you write such beautiful stuff as:

quote:

Some days the love and compassion hit me like tidal waves. I am overtaken with a wave of love and swept away with the flow of compassion. After the waves recede I am left a feeling of forgiveness like seashells are left on the beach after the tide goes out. Then I pick up the shells and share them with others. Because they are not mine alone to keep.

Maybe when they say "Love God" that's what they really mean because you have all the light giddiness of a man in love (and luckily this is gonna be a case where the wife won't object).

I wish I would have never read anything about Gnostic Christianity.

I know very little about Gnostic Christianity, but it sure seems like it wasn't the right thing for you and that you're now on the path to what is surely right. That's a tremendously good thing, in my opinion, and count yourself as extremely fortunate. Many people don't have such a strong feeling for what they should do in life or how they should orient themselves. Remember that down the road if you should ever temporarily run into some adversity. Don't be tempted to let go of something that is precious and so very hard for many to ever find.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
[qb] Phil,can you explain more about satori. Also can you explain the relationship between enlightenment,satori, and kundalini. Are they part of a process or are they seperate things all together?? [/qb]

LOL! In some schools of thinking, anyone who would venture to answer such a question would be a fool. Then there's the issue of you asking me to work waaay too hard when google would serve you just as well.

Maybe try this page and part II of this book.

Wow,Phil! Those articles were great. They resonate so highly with what I had been thinking all along. Our God is surely an awesome God. The more I understand God the more I fall in love with him.

God has a most wonderous personality. The creative thought that is generated from God just twists my mind almost into insanity. That is a good thing.

I often feel humanity has a duty to lift one another up. That is what I have discovered most from my experiences. I often feel that is our only duty.

The closer I get to God the closer I get to humanity. We often pray to God for things when the things we need are right here with us. Each other.

Whenever I feel really close to God I feel like he points me back to Earth. Like he is saying "Go now, help your brothers find the way also". We all have to make it to God together. It would be incomplete to return to source without everything that left the source.

What a high level of attention that God has for humanity. We truely must be his greatest love. His thoughts are so pure that his mere daydreams turn into matter.

I often feel that all of existance is a thought that God is having right now. That we are the dream characters in his mind. When he arouses from his daydream we will not be forgotten. For God is so pure and loves his thoughts so much that he makes them real just for the sake of the thoughts themselves.

Everytime I have an experience I come away with three truths everytime.

Unconditional love.
Compassion.
Forgiveness.

There is something very important about this message. That is what we must learn as humans. Then we can go on to the other wonderful things that God wants to show us.


I wonder if the other spiritual beings that God created on the ladder rungs before us are Angels? Just a thought...........

Thanks Brad. No it isn't embarassing at all. My wife says the same thing when I play my guitar. Maybe it is just a feeling of trying to keep myself humble. I used to be a very prideful person. That detracts me from my goal.

I also feel like none of it comes from myself. That all the beauty belongs to God. I would never write things like that if God was not in my life.

I think that is so wonderful that you would think so highly of the writting. I hope it causes others to see the beauty and wonder of the whole process.

Does anyone know why I can't have an avatar. I linked to my pic and it shows up in my profile but not under my name in the post. Is it because I am a Junior Member???

Phil, I was also wondering how much of your experiences relates to mine. Everyone seems to go through it differently. Do you get the extreme feelings of love and compassion?

Sometimes my experience isn't really about love but about seeing things differently. But love is usually the underlying theme. Do you have more writtings than that article that I originally read?? I would love to hear more about your's...

Eric, I don't know what to say about the avatar. You should just be able to set the URL, and if it shows in your profile. Try clicking the link in your profile, "Select a different avatar image." It will take you to a page with pre-sets, or you can put the url of your own at the bottom. Be sure to click the Set URL button. If your new image shows at the top of the avatar page, click the "Select This Avatar" button. If you don't do the last part, it won't show.

- - -

I relate to much of your enthusiasm for God and God's ways. See this page for a complete listing of my books and tapes on spirituality and theology.

There is nothing in my edit profile that even says anyhting about avatar except hide avatar of other users. It must be because I am a junior member.

Also, wow Phil, you have many books. It is so awesome that it comes from a Christian viewpoint.

Eric--

You write:

"During the time of our last email I starting diving into eastern philosophies and that is where the problem started. I started reading Gnostic Christian scriptures and thought I too could be like Christ. I thought that was the goal. I started meditating and reading etc etc. I started to develop chest pains. They were really bad. Then I got ill. I felt like I had the flu. I literally spent 3 weeks in bed. During this time I started to lose my mind. I started having panic attacks all the time. My subconscious mind started to overtake my conscience one. I didn�t know what was real anymore. I kept trying to force an experience and it only made things worse. My digestion was terrible. The doctors could find nothing wrong with me. I also started having heart palpitations. I started to get really mean again. It was hell Phil. I wanted to die. Every night before I went to bed the chest pains were so bad I thought I would not wake up in the morning. I believe I developed some type of anxiety disorder. Because my symptoms felt real, but medical evaluation suggested otherwise."

That's interesting. It does sound like an anxiety disorder...I was going through similar experiences this year which hasn't ceased. But has become reduced its effect. It was like waking up in a dream. That there is little lineation between concious and unconscious and there was (for myself) a particular pressure in the forehead. This moves into depression, fear: in short neurosis. My experience had nothing to do, however with trying to become Christ-like, or even reading/practicing theology. I was never a Christian and I simply am pretty much done with religion. I would notice though that on some days as I awoke, there would be a decent of energy from above the head, resulting in a clarity in the mind. Subsequently, these anxiety like symptoms would disappear. The largest problem with me was emoting within that place of anxiety, rather than simply doing what you did, which was to pray or just let it be what it was. For myself, I cannot pray anymore and will not pray. But I have something that I can only call faith growing in me. It resides in the heart and in the mind. I found, after going through many experiences over the years, a few in which the self dropped away and there was "no one" simply unity, that any hankering after those experiences is at times a greater sin than mortal sin. Ha. That will sound wholly contradictory. But these were my findings (and I don't suggest anyone consider them). I sought to sin rather than to pray. And finally I just got sick of some of the particular sins that I was doing. Finally, I began to write. Previously, if I had prayed (and any time I pray) I could feel God's presence, love etc as a current of Grace that arose from the crown of the head and decended into the body. This accomponies me whenever I am moved by something. Or one simply directs ones gaze there and it will come. Its like being washed over by loveand sweetness, not to the degree that you seem to experience it. At any rate, after sinning, I began to write. And I wrote about 80 pages of poems all which explored a time in my father's life when India and Pakistan where divided. I felt this division in my body. I explored it in many ways, all creative and in the midst of writing now, I often feel much closer to my "soul" then when I pray. It is like through writing, this veil of confusion, anxiety clears and I feel the beginnings of such an utter and refined sense of sweetness from God. I wrote 70 poems and they won some awards, but I thought of them as endproducts, or simply self indulgent lyrics. In short, I found that one could inspire others even as they lived in hell they could touch others, or make some difference. And I still live in hell and I am not disturbed about my sins. Rather, I trust in something that I can never and would never want to touch, but that which is continually touching me is the only thing I can call self. I simply have faith and it isn't something I would even want to experience. I have experiences every day, even in my current state of anxiety and partial neurosis. The heart opens tangibly into a sense of the love you describe, I would say to a much lesser degree than your experience. I have had those experinces and do not hanker after them. I don't want or need enlightenment. I am somewhat ashamed of my sinning, but I am passive. I am lazy. I am a good for nothing. Yet God has given me this faith that IS him and I wouldn't trade it for sanity.


Asher

Now that I consider sin (if I can be so blunt as to make some, perhaps "un-spiritual" comments) I consider it a gift from God, when he is aware inside my sin. That makes my life more interesting at time, than Milton's God would, or even the unitive state. To know God through sin, in the heart of darkness, is to know God in way that would never be possible if I hankered after enlightenment. To live in darkness is to live in faith. That's all I understand as a human being and that is my condition. If God wishes to disclose himself further, its up to Him. Otherwise I hold him when he comes in love and other experiences, and release him gently when he will depart. That is the condition of a lover, I would think. I go back to my sinning, my overt sins and feel Him gazing back at me. I don't so much feel like He would want me to feel guilty. He is simply loving me behind my humanness and understanding. Yet he is there. And if He isn't, than his absence is there. If that makes sense. So, although I appreciate much these discussions (especially from people who have gone beyond this stage, like Phil and Grace. I tend to question others, question myself. Doubt myself. And to have this self doubt is at times to have faith in his munificence, estranged as I am from Him as He exists in a religious structure. Estranged as I am from a community. So people tell me, go see a shrink. And I say, they would neve know me as God knows me, and they would tell me something, but already, He pushes me through...already He gives me intimations of pushing through my limitations through writing, or whatever. Already he is my full time vocation, even when I am in the act of sinning. Because he gaze through me. But what I mean to say is I had experiences partly because of my disposition for them and partly because God wanted me to go beyond them in darkness and in trust. This trust was always lacking in me and always I sought consolation from him and others. Ultimately, I was able to trace this back to my father...and only now am I beginning to see culture as a such a pertinent shaping factor in the formation of the self. Not only culture, but the memes (if you believe in this theory) that culture imparts to us. So I live in hell and I glory in it. Ha.
Last point before someone stangles me, or I get police knock on my door. I think that the height is revealed to us is proportionate to depth that we succomb to. And that in each there must be the other. This is very clear to me, even if I be a muddled and wholly unChristian boy, and yet always a lover of Mary, always a lover of Christ. Ha. That's how God made me. What can I do. I challenge Him to take me deeper in hell. Ha.