The most interesting books I have found on phisical, spiritual and mental health are by Arnold Ahret.

http://www.arnoldehret.org/healthclub/library.htm

Katy

Dear Katy,
I meant: I don't have a website. neithert do I have a car, nor a GSM. I have a TV only to look at DVD-movies. I have painted for years and exposed. I totally agree with you and I am more and more getting relaxed after only one shiatsu session. At morning and evening I am practicing some (4) yoga asana's and then I am practicing body scan (polar!) as in Vipassana. It expands my body and spirit. It is so good to explore this!
Yetserda

Dear Katy,
I meant: I don't have a website. neithert do I have a car, nor a GSM. I have a TV only to look at DVD-movies. I have painted for years and exposed. I totally agree with you and I am more and more getting relaxed after only one shiatsu session. At morning and evening I am practicing some (4) yoga asana's and then I am practicing body scan (polar!) as in Vipassana. It expands my body and spirit. It is so good to explore this!
I know Eckhart Tolle and Deepak Chopra but it is to my opinion too much of New Age stuff!
I am a great film fan and yesterday I saw a very good film 'Copying Beethoven'. Try to see it. Listen to what 'Beethoven' says...
I am getting out of my head in a slow way, but still I am attracted to getting more insight in how things anthropologically relate to each other: f.e. body, soul, spirit.
Thanks anyway...
in Christ,
Fred

Katy,
Do you know Anodea Judith's DVD 'The Illuminated chakras' and her book 'Wheels of Life'?
Greetings,
Fred

Fred,

I have "Wheels of Light", by Rosalyn L. Bruyere, and I have Andrea Judith's CD and book about Balancing the Chakras, which is very helpful.

I have not heard of "The Illuminated Chakras", nor "Wheels of Life". Similiar titles, I know!!

:-)

Katy

I have an Illuminated Chakras video. Don't remember if its the one you're referring to.

Love, dhyana


http://video.google.com/videop...89694941061600&hl=en

Great video! Thanks.

Katy

Friends,

I don't know whether anyone knows in English the most interesting works of the Dutch scholar Tjeu van den Berk: 'Mystagogie', 'De wijsheid van de hersenstam', 'Het numineuze'?
All the time, he speaks of 'symbolic consciousness'and it is a good counterweight to the more cerebral, dogmatic way of theologizing in the western church. Catechesis is here more a sort of mystagogical process, growing from below instead of a revelation cathesis from above.
Very good reading!
In the meantime, my body scan exercises help me a lot and I am searching for texts on the relation of body (soma), soul (psyche), spirit (pneuma) and other ways of seeing the human person and different layers of self and body as in Hinduism.

Greetings,
Fred

Fred, thanks for the video link. Nicely done, although in a New Agey treatment of the topic.

Re. "symbolic consciousness:" that's fairly characteristic of Catholic spirituality, which has emphasized analogical imagination and reason to understand something of God. Jesus' parables were much along this line.

Symbolic consciousness is also characteristic of a stage of consciousness development -- mythico-emotional. The more rational/conceptual approach of the West emerged from this, although many have lost touch with its functioning.

Re. how body, soul, spirit relate, you might check out my doctoral thesis.
- http://shalomplace.com/view/godselfego.html

We also have a number of discussions on this board. Donald Goergen's "Fire of Love" is a superb book on the Holy Spirit and its interaction with the human spirit.

quote:

Originally posted by Freddy:
[qb] Friends,

I don't know whether anyone knows in English the most interesting works of the Dutch scholar Tjeu van den Berk: 'Mystagogie', 'De wijsheid van de hersenstam', 'Het numineuze'?
All the time, he speaks of 'symbolic consciousness'and it is a good counterweight to the more cerebral, dogmatic way of theologizing in the western church. Catechesis is here more a sort of mystagogical process, growing from below instead of a revelation cathesis from above.
Very good reading!
In the meantime, my body scan exercises help me a lot and I am searching for texts on the relation of body (soma), soul (psyche), spirit (pneuma) and other ways of seeing the human person and different layers of self and body as in Hinduism.

Greetings,
Fred [/qb]

Goodness... way above my head. Eckhart Tolle says the "trouble" is we think too much. Why do you have to know all this stuff?

Keep up the body work!!

Katy

Dear Katy,
I went to a 'satsang' by an advaita master yesterday and felt quite relaxed and open in his' presence. But again, today I got into my head about the whole issue of Advaita versus Christianity (see on this forum the thread on Enlightenment and C.) and feel very contracted, fearful and so forth...! It's a crazy thing! Trying too much to relax or to re-experience a good feeling again of course works contradictory. Is acceptance after all the 'solution'?
In the meantime, I am practicing some exercises the teacher gave me such as expanding body consciousness at the sea.
Please pray for me!
Greetings,
Fred

Freddy,

Acceptance, yes! You're on the right track. :-) Trying too hard to relax can cause more more tension! That's where "let go and let God" comes in. I know... easier said than done.

I don't really know what an advaita master is, so I googled and went to this site: http://www.rameshbalsekar.com/books1.asp Yes, I love all this kind of stuff too and I have learned a lot and found much of it helpful.. you should see all my books. ;-)

But all I am trying to say is that all the knowledge in the world doesn't bring us love and happiness. That is what we are really seeking. I am "guilty" myself.. (It takes one to know one, I suppose.) And you probably know this. Sometimes when I look at all my books, and think about all google searching I have done, not to mention the probably thousands of library books I have read, I think "where has it gotten me? Am I any better off?" In some ways, yet, but not much. Really, it is love that counts... loving God, ourselves and others. The "main" thing I sometimes tend to forget!

"...I may understand all the secret things of God and have all knowledge, and I may have faith so great I can move mountains. .. But even with all these things, if I do not have love, then I am nothing." (I Cor. 13: 2)

Eckhart Tolle, and other teachers of enlightenment, say that thinking, and the intellect obscure true love, joy, peace, and Being more than anything else.

I have always been one to think too much, and so therefore I am very conscious of that fact. It takes lots of practice to stop the thoughts and the confusion, and to just BE. Just be conscious of God. Put on the mind of Christ.

Another thing, like you, I have a similiar background of running from doctor to doctor, from therapist to therapist, after having had a (premature?) K awakening in 1976. Then it was called "psychotic break". Whatever... I've heard it said there is a thin line between insanity and sainthood!

Hope some of this helps you. I just want you to know I've been there.

"Expanding body consciousness at the sea." That sounds nice.


Yes, I will pray for you.

Katy

Dear Phil, Kathy... and all the others there,

Greetings in Christ!

Phil,
Thank you for speaking of the book of Goergen and directing me to your doctoral thesis, which I want to buy. Goergen is completely unknown to me. What I wanted to say in the personal e-mail is that to my opinion it is with Advaita and Christianity not either/or but and/and! Read on Abhishiktananda, of course a pioneer... Mentally as I am, I learn a lot from body consciousness and awareness these days. The satsang was a certain breakthrough in this.

Katy,
I understand you completely! Me too I have read so much and it is as if few things are very helpful, except the Word of God. Books about books about books... Word, words, words! Our world is full of it. I wrote a (to the opinion of friends beautiful) diary of a stay in a Cistercian monastery in May this year and I am speaking there of this question. Unfortunately I cannot send it to you, because it is written in Dutch. So, I stick to my body and breath awareness and I have started painting again, after having seen an exposition with one of my favorite painters: Turner! (Others are: Rembrandt, Pierro dello Francisca, Giotto, Morandi, Kirkeby, Rothko, C�zanne, Van Gogh, Bonnard). Does someone like painting or art in general over there and the impact on religious life? Read only Anthony de Mello and notice how deep he is writing on awareness!Via GOOGLE...
Expanding your body awareness, while walking or laying down or sitting is a most powerful exercise!Try it...
Greetings,
Fred
PS. Someone who likes films? Get 'Bleak House' on the book by Dickens (DVD); 440 minutes of excellent cinema!!! Leaves all soaps behind...

Fred,

That is wonderful that you started painting again.. That is something I've been meaning to do again too. I want to paint angels! Painting will help you (and me) to be mindful and present!

Have you read anything by Thich Nhat Hanh? I like his "Peace is Every Step", about mindfulness in everyday life.

I'll check out "Bleak House".

:-)
Katy

Katy and Freddy, this is almost too good to be true:

http://www.ctocds.com/books/index.htm

And just think how many trees it saves

Thank you both, Katy and Spoonboy!

Katy, years ago I followed academy courses painting during 6 years. First, I painted figurative(ly) (landscapes, still lives), later abstract. But this abstract, colorfull thing ended up quite arbitrally, so I had to come back to nature, to reference points. Look how many abstract expressionists ended their life quite miserable (suicides, addictions...). I am afraid this has something to do with the personality of the artist/painter in general on the one hand (a sort of overdrive and perfectionism, melancholy ... as I notice in myself) but also maybe astral influences on the other hand resulting from the way they work... But I don't know this last thing for sure...
As I said I observed intensely the paintings of Turner (and others)and I am now working in a different way: more relaxed, slowly, painting thin layers of paint, layer on layer. I made two paintings and they are, I can say, very well done (after pictures I made in India, where I traveled throughout June last year).
Did you paint before? Try oil painting...Aquarel painting is most difficult...

Something else now, very weird indeed! I notice that throughout day, when I do my work (I am a structural prevention worker in youth care, working for the Government, a very abstract and too complex thing to explain here...), at this moment writing a book on 'Toy libraries and education support of elders' (with an introduction on the spiritual value of 'play' and on symbolic consciouness), I feel rather good and there is little tension in my chest. But at evening, coming home, I feel it quite intense, even when painting. Loneliness? Then it is very difficult to relax and I get frustrated about the fact, that I cannot pray or meditate of practice body awareness (as I think I should). Accept that too? Of course, wanting to relax with effort of the will hinders relaxation! Maybe I first have to go for a walk every evening, after so much computer work...
Another question: some advice to practice body awareness, but on the other hand it is of course true that we are not our body, our emotions, our thoughts (see advaita). In Christianity however, we stress the importance of the incarnation, the body... How do these things relate, how do handle this practically, if you know what I mean?

Spoonboy, excellent 'research' work! Though I have to admit that reading a book is still something else. I like books, also for the texture of paper, the format, the smell of old books (as my copy of John of the Cross) and so forth... You see, I am a romantic guy! But I have to pay attention now not to read too much!

The quotation of Gandhi I know from the movie I think. Excellent!

Greetings,
Fred

Hi Fred,

I share your interest in painting and books. I don't paint but was particularly taken by what you said about the abstract expressionists. I've had a couple of real spiritual experiences looking at painting, one of which was a Pollock piece in Tate Modern, where I came away feeling as if my body had been dancing. I'm also deeply moved by Rothko's work which I find really spiritual. His suicide has always haunted me and your insights into this are most interesting. I also love post impressionism - Van Gogh, Cezanne, Gauguin.

Paint on canvas has a life and vibrancy similar to words on a white page. I love poetry which expoits this by strewing words all over the page. Concrete and visual poetry. Do you know d.a levy, a visual poet from Cleveland, active in the 60s, a bit of a radical involved in the counter culture, but also using aspects of Buddhism in his visual work, some of which was hand printed on mimeograph machines. Another suicide case unfortunately.

See - http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/dalevy/dalevy.htm

Dear Stephen,

Thanks for your reply. Think indeed of Van Gogh, Pollock, Rothko, de Kooning, Joan Mitchell (not the singer, good work =) google)and so forth...: all dramatic figures.

I don't know L�vy.

Something different: the whole question of biblical (body, soul, spirit) versus Eastern anthropology (running parallel to the latest scientific material?)keeps on haunting me! I have some titles but it is a very complex issue... I intend to read now the doctoral thesis of Phil on this...
Some reply?

Greetings,
Fred

Dear Stephen,

I looked at the webiste of L�vy. His paintings rae practically identical to the ones of Joan Mitchell as you will notice on Google!

Greetings,
Fred

Dear Stephen,

I remember now! And this: http://www.ccel.org/!!!

Greetings,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Freddy:
[qb] Did you paint before? Try oil painting...Aquarel painting is most difficult...

I feel rather good and there is little tension in my chest. But at evening, coming home, I feel it quite intense, even when painting. Loneliness? Then it is very difficult to relax and I get frustrated about the fact, that I cannot pray or meditate of practice body awareness (as I think I should). Accept that too? Of course, wanting to relax with effort of the will hinders relaxation! Maybe I first have to go for a walk every evening, after so much computer work...
Another question: some advice to practice body awareness, but on the other hand it is of course true that we are not our body, our emotions, our thoughts (see advaita). In Christianity however, we stress the importance of the incarnation, the body... How do these things relate, how do handle this practically, if you know what I mean?
Fred [/qb]

Fred, I used to do oil painting years ago. I was going to try water color this time.

Maybe after sitting all day at work, you need to do something physical, as walk; then do meditation or breathing. Also I was thinking maybe Tai Chi would be a good thing for you, as it involves meditative movements.

I believe we are body, soul (intellect, emotions,will) and spirit, that our soul (mind) interpenetrates our bodies. And that each part affects the other. But as you know, the spirit energized by the Holy Spirit needs to be in charge and overflow into the mind, and evetually into the body.. which leads to the subject of immortality, but I won't get into that. :-)

Just my own ideas for what they're worth.

Katy

[qb]

quote:

Originally posted by Freddy:
[qb] Did you paint before? Try oil painting...Aquarel painting is most difficult...

I feel rather good and there is little tension in my chest. But at evening, coming home, I feel it quite intense, even when painting. Loneliness? Then it is very difficult to relax and I get frustrated about the fact, that I cannot pray or meditate of practice body awareness (as I think I should). Accept that too? Of course, wanting to relax with effort of the will hinders relaxation! Maybe I first have to go for a walk every evening, after so much computer work...

Fred [/qb]

Hi Fred!

I'm an artist, too, and kind of know what you're talking about. What helps me is immersing myself in nature. Do you live near the water? Woods? I find that when I go to a place where I can feel the earth, breathe in its beauty through my eyes and body, that it balances me. I feel it all has to do with finding what balances us and making time for it. May sound simplistic, but I find that it is as important as eating food.

Love, dhyana

Dear Dhyana (goddess of hunting),
Thanks for the message. I am living at the North sea in Ostend, Belgium and in front of my appartment there is a huge public garden, so there is plenty of opportunity to get out for a walk. But I think that somehow I always hurt myself by too much stepping on the gas if you know what I mean. I know that it all has to come from deep relaxation, deep body and symbolic (mythic) consciousness, which is almost lost in our world. I can be so melancholic and sad when reading good articles about another, more soulful, creative, imaginative... life, which we all knew in our childhood. But it is difficult for me to rest, because of the pain in my chest (resulting from hypersensitivity and perfectionism?). I have to learn to 'go with the flow' and keep a healthy distance (witness consciousness)! Long walk can certainly help me, but I am at the same time such a curious, inquisitive, questioning man (now about anthropology, East and west) and the relation art-spirituality. Do you have an own website? I haven't, but maybe I sent you later some pics of paintings, when you sen me your e-mail address...
Greetings,
Fred

Dearest Fred, what I'm referring to is something much deeper than just taking a walk...it's communion! Its drinking deeply of natural beauty. Being like a sponge and drawing in the energy of the sacred moment away from work, the world, mental stuff! Its an "artist date" where you receive from the Beloved what you need to balance. Doing fun stuff, even if its just rolling in the grass, will work wonders for you. Two hours once a week minimum! Get outside and play! (my two cents lol!)

Have you had the chest pain checked out medically? Holding yourself too tight can also cause chest pain... ?

I don't have a website just of my artwork, but some of my Icons are on MySpace:

www.myspace.com/aperfect_star

Love, dhyana

This quote has relevance for the discussion topic:

The mind prefers one thing, the body another, but, Lord, I desire nothing but to
accomplish Your holy will. Work, contemplation or prayer whether vocal or
mental, active or passive; the prayer of faith or of understanding; that
which is distinguished in kind, or gifted with universal grace: it is all
nothing Lord unless made real and useful by Your will. It is to Your holy
will that I devote myself and not to any of these things, however high and
sublime they may be, because it is the perfection of the heart for which
grace is given, and not for that of the mind."

from "Abandonment to Divine Providence," by Jean Pierre de Caussade
-- Book 1, Chapter 1, Section 6

------

That about says it all. I think the danger for many is what Ram Dass called "spiritual materialism," which is a hankering after spiritual experiences, and a chasing around to experiment with as many as possible. This goes against the priority emphasized in Christian spirituality of giving our all to God and accepting whatever state of consciousness comes from it as the mode in and through which God prefers to work in us.