Our church will be showing this documentary next month. Has anybody seen it yet?

http://www.catholicnewworld.co...ne/2010/0912/15.aspx

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Blood Money: The Business of Abortion” is a much-needed and thorough examination of the history, industry, personal impact and human toll of abortion in America. ...This extremely professional, engaging, precisely edited documentary puts an emphasis on educating Americans about how abortion became legalized in this country, about the incredibly blatant lies, deceit, lack of regulation and bundles of money (much of it undeclared) being made off abortion, as well as the physical, psychological, spiritual ramifications on everyone involved.
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Phil,

Shasha,

I haven't seen that one, but I did catch an EWTN show this AM or last night, wherein they interviewed an Abby Johnson who has authored a book called 'unPlanned'. She used to run a Planned Parenthood clinic but has converted after having witnessed the effects of an abortion procedures while ultrasound was in use. She has since been sued by PP. her interview will likely air again. She was interesting and had a lot of data and knowledge about PP and how it gets and reports on its funding.

nterestingly, she was asked to leave her church after she came out in support of Life. Evidently her church believes in Abortion Rights
and based on her current stance against it she was asked to leave. Kind of an 'excommunication'.

Pop-pop
p.s. Don't tell AJ.

quote:

Originally posted by pop-pop:

Pop-pop
p.s. Don't tell AJ.

AJ--Abby Johnson? Don't you think she already knows, Pop-pop?

Pop-pop,

I would like to watch that interview with Abby.
One thing she said gave me that sick-in-the-gut sadness/greif/horror response:

"I saw a 13 week old baby recoil and flee from the ultrasound probe," she told CBN News.

Ariel,

LOL! LOL! PERFECTO! XXOX

Sometimes when I contemplate the lushness of diversity existent within Christendom today ….. I find it’s just brillig. Truly.

The slithy toves gyre and gimble, and visions of amber waves of grain billowing in the breeze evoke thoughts of harvest, even now in mid-winter. Ripe … ripe landscapes.

Sometimes when I contemplate our lushness of diversity, a diversity that encompasses in an equanimitous peace and harmony the full spectrum of both acceptance of, and rejection of, the killing of fetal life, I light up with expectation of the parousia and the sounds of angelic wingbeats.

How wondrous that we have available to us nowadays in the third millenium -- at last -- churches that will excommunicate believers in protecting fetal life and churches that will excommunicate believers in ending fetal life. All Christian churches. All done in His name. A veritable potpourri, and a wedding feast perhaps.

Though, I must admit, it is yet a bit premature -- my contemplation -- for I hear no Maranthas just yet. There may be a few out there, but the volume isn’t there. ( I am a bit harder of hearing these days than I was in yesteryear but more volume is needed, methinks. It‘s not just my ears.) Perhaps the volume will increase as the INANITY dial gets turned up still more and more. That is what I think.

And sometimes when in my upper room in prayer, I hear this stentorian voice (though at other times it comes in a still soft whisper): “Come out from among them.”



Pop-pop

p.s. I guess I should really be lending my voice to the Maranthas as well, now shouldn’t I? Hmmm…

(Perhaps the stentorian voice is the Father and the whisperer is the Spirit. Hmmm…. The Trinity is such a mystery, I can’t quite get my mind around it all. -- You all know how that is).

Nicely done, Mr. pop pop Hopkins.

Do you happen to know what denomination Abby Johnson belonged to? Hard to imagine any of the mainline Protestant groups excommunicating her for her position. Even those that lean toward respecting the pro-choice position also respect the right of individuals to take a stand in conscience.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:


Do you happen to know what denomination Abby Johnson belonged to?

Phil, Abby was going to an Episcopalian church in Texas at that time. She wasn't actually excommunicated; she said some other members would button-hole her after church and make her feel unwelcome. She'd been raised Southern Baptist, but left after she started at PP because of the SB stance on abortion.

Phil,

She said Episcopal -- which is pretty mainline, methinks. Also it is one in which much dismay at the variability in diversity is causing a real foray into confrontation. The interview may have been on World Over Live, but I'm not sure. Abby said she is currently taking RCIA to become Catholic. She said liturgy was so very similar to Episcopal that her attendance at mass was quite easily accomplished.

Interestingly, she shared that she kind of understood her being asked to leave her Episcopal church because, in fact, she had joined that church specifically because it championed Abortion Rights and as a director of a PP center she was much attracted by that when looking for a church.

Pop-pop

p.s. I didn't use the 'U' word on this thread because that was already addressed on another (equestrian) thread, so I used the 'D' word here. LOL! We'll see if I have to put my chaps back on -- the horse was gentle but I did get saddle sore using muscles I do not typically use.

Here's Abby's interview with World Over on Feb. 25. Begins at 8 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/user/EWTN#p/u/2/Sdvb_HEQ8ds

Also available on TV (for dial-up remnants like myself) tonight 28 Feb at 10 PM EST for anyone interested. Bring your own popcorn -- you know how much butter is just right -- like baby bears porridge)!

Pop-pop

"Blood Money" was an excellent documentary, though it covers more than the title implies. About a third of the movie concerns post-abortion syndrome, which is an important topic.

Here's what the Pope said about post-abortion syndrome in February:
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/0...to-pro-life-leaders/

The issue of post-abortion syndrome — namely the severe psychological problems commonly experienced by women who have had an abortion voluntary — reveals the irrepressible voice of moral conscience and the terrible wound it suffers each time a human action betrays the human being’s innate vocation to good,” he said.

“Through moral conscience God speaks to each of us, inviting us to defend human life at all times, and in this personal bond with the Creator lies the profound dignity of moral conscience and the reason for its inviolability,” he said.

“It is necessary that society as a whole must defend the conceived child’s right to life and the true good of the woman who can never, in any circumstances, find fulfillment in the decision to abort.
----------------
I do see that the wound of abortion is much greater on the women (and men) who make this choice than on the baby who is killed.

quote:

Originally posted by pop-pop:
...Abby Johnson who has authored a book called 'unPlanned'. She used to run a Planned Parenthood clinic but has converted after having witnessed the effects of an abortion procedures while ultrasound was in use. She has since been sued by PP. her interview will likely air again. She was interesting and had a lot of data and knowledge about PP and how it gets and reports on its funding.

nterestingly, she was asked to leave her church after she came out in support of Life. Evidently her church believes in Abortion Rights
and based on her current stance against it she was asked to leave. Kind of an 'excommunication'.
....

Speaking of Abby Johnson, she'll be speaking at a Church near my home next month. I'll let you all know about it if I go...

Phil,

Can we change the title of this thread to something more general as I see the discussion expanding beyond the movie. Maybe something like, Abortion issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Shasha:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pop-pop:
...Abby Johnson who has authored a book called 'unPlanned'. She used to run a Planned Parenthood clinic but has converted after having witnessed the effects of an abortion procedures while ultrasound was in use. She has since been sued by PP. her interview will likely air again. She was interesting and had a lot of data and knowledge about PP and how it gets and reports on its funding.

nterestingly, she was asked to leave her church after she came out in support of Life. Evidently her church believes in Abortion Rights and based on her current stance against it she was asked to leave. Kind of an 'excommunication'.
....

I did go see Abby last week. She is very down-to-earth, bold, and straight-foward. Just watching how comfortable she is in front of an audience, it is apparent that she is born to be a leader. She might have agreed with that, but she didn't every imagine it would be in the Pro-Life movement! She had strenuously defended abortion for years and kept close tabs on the enemy pro-life movement so she could thwart their efforts to end abortion.

She says she can hardly believe how much her life has changed with all the traveling and attention and activity. She said, "I get up every morning, God shows me what He wants me to do, and then He pours a bunch of Grace on top of it!"

Abby shared that she thought she'd reached the pinnacle of her career when she received employee of the year award (in 2008/9?) by Planned Parenthood, where she was a director for 8 years in Texas. She thought it was awesome to sit right next to Hillary Clinton during the PP banquet that year when Clinton was honored by PP. She was all goo-goo eyed with Clinton as her political role-model.

She's a radically changed woman now speaking out against the immorality of abortion, how it hurts women, and supporting many PP defectors who are following suit. She sees through the thick deception of the abortion industry/ "abortion rights" fallacy.

Incidentally, Abby did share that she was QUOTE "asked to leave" by her Episcopalian church because of her Pro-Life position. She has converted (or is in process) to the Catholic Church. I was burning to know what led her to this decision, but she didn't go there. My guess is the same reason why Nathanson, former abortion doctor, converted to the RCC. When you grok the severity of your sin, the horror of what you've done, you run like mad to the nearest remedy: absolution. And the Sacrament of Reconciliation is not a nice, poetic gesture of God's forgiveness, but truly feels essential. That's not to say forgiveness is not possible outside the Sacramental churches, but why not dive into the deep end of the swimming pool?

Abby shared that her spiritual director is Father Pavone, the leader of Priests for Life. He wrote the forward to her book, Unplanned. Priests for Life is an ecumenical ministry. Huge wealth of info and resources.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/...o/introbrochure.html

--------
Here's the most report from 40 Days for Life director, Shawn Carney. His team was standing right outside Abby's clinic and praying for her when she converted. Interesting GOD story how these two crossed paths:

---------------
The director of an abortion facility where a 40 Days
for Life campaign was conducted for the FIRST TIME
this spring just quit her job, thanking the 40 Days
for Life effort for helping her to get out of the
abortion industry!

This is one of TEN abortion center workers who walked
away from their jobs during this campaign alone ...

... and one of 53 who have quit the abortion business
since the first coordinated 40 Days for Life campaign
in 2007.

Praise God!

This is a very sensitive situation for the former
clinic manager (who we've been working closely with
throughout this process), so I'm not going to identify
the person or the location. She will no doubt face
pressure when her former bosses learn the truth.

Members of the local 40 Days for Life team and
pro-lifers in the region have offered to assist this
former abortion center worker find new employment.

So please keep this courageous lady in your prayers!
---------------

quote:

Can we change the title of this thread to something more general as I see the discussion expanding beyond the movie. Maybe something like, Abortion issues.

OK Shasha, done. As you know, we have several other discussions of abortion. Anyone interested can do a search to track them down.

Hi All,

http://youtu.be/DCmLmZDpB4I

It broke my heart to leave my (pro-choice) husband behind in the Episcopal pews... I loved sitting next to him in church, but there wasn't much room for my pro-life views at the church we attended. It was a difficult decision, asking the Lord and myself if my Pro-life presence could bring dialogue... Not so much, I found.

Phil, I don't know if you remember our brief conversation on this topic, but your calm & reasoned response was appreciated.

It wasn't too long into my decision making process that I saw this video on EWTN... If this has been posted before, my apologies...

For me it captures the many levels of angst, fear, or demands a woman might make about it being her body when wrestling over the decision to have an abortion. Regret is a note that sings in it also. And then there is the singer who represents Christ... Singing God's words of "Father forgive them they know not what they do"

Isn't that the message?... I want a few of my girlfriends who have had abortions to hear Jesus, to be able to forgive themselves...

One friend recently chose life, single Mom, now with down syndrome child, and she/we believe/know her precious child is a gift. The world will never get her choice.

The industry as a money maker is a whole different discussion.

Hi Gail,

Thanks so much for sharing that beautiful song with us.

You are so right that the issue is deeply complicated as it touches so many aspects of our lives--emotional, moral, political, and, as in your situation, relational.

I wonder about men who are staunchly 'pro-choice,' if they've ever lived through sexually immoral periods in their life and/or impregnated women who've had abortions (maybe even suspecting so). It's a deep shame in men too, and I see them as no less culpable of the killing, and the sin of degrading the woman's body, not caring for her and the life they've created. Failing to protecting the mother of his children goes against the healthiest part of every man. And if a man has failed in this way, the choices are to deny & run OR repent and face the bitter pain. There's no in between land.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shasha,

From Abby Johnson

I Would Give My Life to Undo the Evil I Caused at Planned Parenthood .

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ne...used-at-planned-pare

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I never had the honor of talking to Dr. Bernard Nathanson. But someone told me once that he asked Dr. Nathanson about his remorse after performing thousands of abortions. Many of us that have once been in the abortion industry are frequently criticized for our public “lack of remorse.” Dr. Nathanson explained to this man that if he actually allowed himself to feel the depth of his remorse, he wouldn’t be able to live with the pain. I would say that is pretty accurate for most of us who have once lived and walked in those hallways of evil. I’m not sure my heart would take the pain if I really allowed myself to feel what I had done.

Have you ever watched one of those crime shows where they interview a prisoner who murdered someone? I recently saw one about a man who had killed a young woman. He had since become a Christian while in prison and the remorse for the life he had taken was so evident. He could hardly even talk about her. It was difficult for him to maintain his composure. Well, imagine that type of remorse times thousands and thousands. We were serial killers of the worst kind … we killed children.

Then one day, after years of living in foolishness and evil, we turn it around. We swallow our pride and admit we were wrong. We lose our friends, we are called names, we start over … but we know it is worth it. It is not easy, but it is right. We repent from our sin and we feel a sense of peace and joy that has never been in our heart before … but there is brokenness, too … and a stinging feeling of remorse that won’t leave. I remember wondering if the brokenness and remorse would ever lessen. Would it ever leave? It doesn’t. It is a constant reminder of who you were and what you have done. But now, I am thankful for the reminder … it keeps me focused, passionate, and most of all, praying.

For some of us, we go on to have normal 9-5 jobs and live our lives in the privacy of family and friends. Some of us live our lives in the public. I know I am called to work full time in the fight. I didn’t know that at first, but God revealed that to me in a pretty big way … thanks to Planned Parenthood’s media release. For those of us whose conversions are public, many look at us as heroes. But we are not … I am not. How could we be? We look around us and see people who have been fighting in this movement for years; they are heroes. We are criminals. We deserve punishment, not awards. We deserve to be cast out, not accepted. We don’t deserve forgiveness, but we seem to get it anyway.

Every day of my life I think about the women I took from. I took away their motherhood, I devalued them, I broke their confidence, I betrayed them. How I wish I could look into every one of their faces and tell them how sorry I am. If I could restore some of what I took from them, I would give my life to make it happen. I wish I could be there to wipe their tears when they mourn for their lost child. To know that you committed a terrible wrong that you can’t make right is one of the most desperate feelings in the world. And as desperate as I feel, I can’t make those wishes come true. But I do my best everyday to make it up to those women and their children. I failed them once, but I won’t do it again. I know they haven’t forgotten their children, and I haven’t either.

For the lives I have taken, ‘I’m sorry’ just seems hollow to even say. How do you apologize for killing thousands of children and wounding thousands of families? I’m not sure I have an answer. But I am sorry. I am sorry to the women I coerced into abortion. I am sorry to every woman who has ever had an abortion; you may never hear those words from the person who performed your abortion, but I want you to hear it from me on behalf of that doctor or clinic worker. I am sorry they betrayed you. I am sorry they broke your spirit and your trust. I am sorry they hurt you. I am sorry they didn’t have the courage to stand up for you and what you really deserved…a chance to be a mother to your child. We abused and disrespected you in the worst possible way. I am sorry. So many people probably disappointed you…your friends, your family, your church community, your coworkers, maybe others. I apologize on behalf of them, as well. I am guilty of selling abortion to my family, friends, coworkers, and even people I worship with. We should have stood up for you and your child. I am so sorry we let you down in the worst possible way. You deserved better than what we gave you.

The extent of my remorse, sorrow and grief runs very deep. I could never even begin to share it all with you on a blog. I’m not even sure I am aware of how deep it runs. But it is there … reminding me of the life I once had and how hard I must now work.

I am only able to handle the pain of my past with the help of Christ...

Oh my heart...

Quite a letter.

Thank-You Shasha for posting this.

Gail--


----

Notice you don't hear big (or small) conversion stories from Pro-choicers who used to be Pro-life.

In college when I was pro-choice, I remember the women who cried bitterly in front of me about their abortions. I said something LAME like, "Oh, well. You had to do it...forgive yourself." Little did I know it would never be possible for these women to move on without God's forgiveness...

Anyway, it feels to me that none of us will be fully healed until all of us are healed...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shasha,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shasha:
Gail--


----

Notice you don't hear big (or small) conversion stories from Pro-choicers who used to be Pro-life.

In college when I was pro-choice, I remember the women who cried bitterly in front of me about their abortions. I said something LAME like, "Oh, well. You had to do it...forgive yourself." Little did I know it would never be possible for these women to move on without God's forgiveness...



Ha, you are right, I never thought about that! Where are those conversions stories? O, I better not say that, for sure it will come back to bite me. I have friends & family who have lost their first love... Though He hasn't lost them, I pray & hope!

Do you think it is a very sad fact that hearts that have once tasted God's goodness can become very hard? ( I wonder if that wasn't the case somewhat with me when I ran after some of the N.A. stuff) O, I was so disappointed that the Lord didn't heal my husband or relieve me from all the care-giving he required! But, I digress. (Hindsight is always clearest, dang)

So these women who bitterly cried about their abortions, were they Christians? And even if they weren't, don't you find it telling that their hearts were tore up over having one? I responded the same way as you back in the day... Makes me shutter now, thankful for His forgiveness & mercy. I love this verse in light of what you said "that none of us will be fully healed until all of us are healed".
Now, I need to find some soap Totally kidding on the soap... Jesus Christ is in the purifying business. Ouch.


1 John 3

1 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

What a great day, when He appears, we will be like Him, I long for that, it is so messy being human. ggrrr.

quote:

it feels to me that none of us will be fully healed until all of us are healed.

beautifully stated.

quote:

Originally posted by gail:
...I love this verse in light of what you said "that none of us will be fully healed until all of us are healed". ..

1 John 3

1 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

...

Gail, thanks for sharing this. It makes me feel better to know I might be in Pop-pop's good graces if there's scriptural support for my intuitions.

Gail,

Yes, most women are torn up over their abortions. It's very painful to watch women share their raw grief, but I inwardly celebrate with them as they face the bitter reality of what they've done. If they can't feel grief and remorse, they're a longer way from healing.

Here's a 5 minute clip on post abortive healing through Christ Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGTZ_CkDtFA&NR=1