Recently the so called Forbidden Letters (on resurrection and homosexuality) were discussed on this Forum. I just see that an article on the Letters by Magnus Strom has been published on

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters3.htm

Greetings,
Ray.

Welcome Rayray.

I'm moving this topic to the theology forum, where I think it fits better.

I'm not familiar with these letters or its message, but from the link you posted, they seem to be some kind of alchemical, occult process. What is your experience of this message, and why do you think it has merit?

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
[qb] Welcome Rayray.

I'm moving this topic to the theology forum, where I think it fits better.

I'm not familiar with these letters or its message, but from the link you posted, they seem to be some kind of alchemical, occult process. What is your experience of this message, and why do you think it has merit? [/qb]

Hello Phil. That's funny, because my brother has been at this board before to post the Letters (part 1) and then you answered:

quote:

I'm not buying it. Of course, if anyone actually succeeds in demonstrating the same kind of resurrection that Jesus manifested, then I'll re-consider.

I am confused now, because I don't think one can easily forget the Letters.

Greetz,

Rayray.

This is what someone on a Vancouver-forum posted:

quote:

If you know anything at all you will also know that this gay guy is the antichrist. If you care about anything at all you will realise that now is the time to take up the armour of God and read your Bible with more intent than to please your mother.

God help us all.

I do not agree at all. But I thought it was nice to post it here anyhow.

Greetz,

Rayray.

Many of today's alchemists are homosexuals pursuing the path of attaining the philosopher's stone and the alchemical marriage of the opposites within, feminine and masculine. This path is strewn with great danger, and its consequences are devastating.

In a another thread by W.C., he discussed the relationships between I-Thou and I-It. I-Thou means equality, I-It makes the It an object and herein lies the great danger for the It. When one is unable to see the reality and worth of another human being as being equal, one can exploit and abuse the It for selfish desires, spiritual robbery, all in the attempt of attaining spiritual treasures for oneself.

I knew of such an individual, who would stop at nothing to attain spiritual treasures for himself in his pursuit of making himself immortal. Such an individual reminds me of a cat that has caught a mouse. The cat plays with the mouse and decides if it would make a meal, or just to kill it by torture.

The atrocious things people do in todays age under the guise of spirituality are an absolute horror. I caution anyone who attempts to follow occult ways in attaining what is given to us by God, and to make others aware that unless they are centered within God's power of protection and depend upon His graces, to always ask for the spirit of discernment and truth in their involvement with another.

There is only one way to attain a new birth and the gift of the Holy Spirit, total dependence on God and doing His will.

Many of today's alchemists are homosexuals pursuing the path of attaining the philosopher's stone and the alchemical marriage of the opposites within, feminine and masculine. This path is strewn with great danger, and its consequences are devastating.

Interesting theory. My take on homosexuality is threefold:

1) I think sex used to be a lot more communal than it is today, so there is a biological urge that gets activated in men (like a feeding frenzy) when they see other men engaging in sex. This can get transferred to sexual feelings for other men.

2) A man, for various reasons, might feel weak and powerless. Politically correct or not, the relationship woman has to man is very much about using the man�s power for herself. A weak man may look to another man for his lost power and masculinity. Basically they relate femininely.

3) It is highly advantageous, from a "survival of the fittest" standpoint, for men to bond together�quickly and closely. Those men who bond together will fight and die for each other. They will ignore one of the strongest instincts we have � to survive. That�s powerful. On the other hand, those men who don�t form cohesive groups will tend to be overrun by those we do. This "cohesion" can, I think, easily enough take on a sexual nature because men are already so highly charged sexually.

I might also add that, from behind, a man doesn�t look all that different from a woman. The visual cues of the buttock are much the same (and the buttocks of the female supposedly represents a permanent stimulatory "swelling" sexual cue, the type that one sees in baboons and such).

And I might add that, obviously (but not from personal experience � but I would admit it if I had), it feels good, and there is no apparent biological penalty for engaging in sex with men, as long as they still have sex with women and pass on their genes.

Oh, and male-male sex is probably connected to a display of domination as well.

Excellent sharing Brad on the sexuality of men. I certainly learned things I did not know.

Your quote:

......the relationship woman has to man is very much about using the man's power for herself.
------------------------------

Hmm, I ponder on this, and must agree that sophisticated women who have knowledge of this may exploit men for this power. To me this is not a love relationship for it is devoid of equality in the giving, receiving, and sharing of one another in this sacred act of an intense love relationship.

I do believe that many men do feel threatened by womens ability and stamina in a sexual union without the loss of energy. To counteract this tremendous power in women, unfortunately some methods of sexual control have surfaced in men which are extremely harmful for women.

Hmm, I ponder on this, and must agree that sophisticated women who have knowledge of this may exploit men for this power. To me this is not a love relationship for it is devoid of equality in the giving, receiving, and sharing of one another in this sacred act of an intense love relationship.

Freebird, I�m not denying that there is an intentional aspect to human relationships. And certainty what we intend these days is for perfect equality. But the biological reality of men and women is quite different. Men have had harems. This is quite rare for women. Men are, by and large, the protectors. They are bigger and stronger. This is a biological fact. That we now have decided that such notions are outmoded, even oppressive, is another thing. We can have these notions. And that�s fine. Many I agree with. But I think we also have to understand that we�re also fighting biology to some extent to enforce our notions.

Women are, in this day and age, more or less economically independent of men. We have all hailed this as a good thing, and I agree. But psychologically I think women still relate to men as they always have. They are looking for a strong, sure, provider for them and their children. They are looking for decisive, sometimes even slightly abusive men, because it is the power that attracts to a great extent.

Gentlemen, it is breathtaking how you become and then stay off topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Freebird:
[qb] Many of today's alchemists are homosexuals pursuing the path of attaining the philosopher's stone and the alchemical marriage of the opposites within, feminine and masculine. This path is strewn with great danger, and its consequences are devastating.

In a another thread by W.C., he discussed the relationships between I-Thou and I-It. I-Thou means equality, I-It makes the It an object and herein lies the great danger for the It. When one is unable to see the reality and worth of another human being as being equal, one can exploit and abuse the It for selfish desires, spiritual robbery, all in the attempt of attaining spiritual treasures for oneself.

I knew of such an individual, who would stop at nothing to attain spiritual treasures for himself in his pursuit of making himself immortal. Such an individual reminds me of a cat that has caught a mouse. The cat plays with the mouse and decides if it would make a meal, or just to kill it by torture.

The atrocious things people do in todays age under the guise of spirituality are an absolute horror. I caution anyone who attempts to follow occult ways in attaining what is given to us by God, and to make others aware that unless they are centered within God's power of protection and depend upon His graces, to always ask for the spirit of discernment and truth in their involvement with another.

There is only one way to attain a new birth and the gift of the Holy Spirit, total dependence on God and doing His will. [/qb]

If we stay within the logic of the letters (Christ as that living stone), then the path of the gay man is dependence and doing His will. (I believe it is said in the Letter 'whatever the Grail (that living stone) starts, the Grail will finish).

Gentlemen, it is breathtaking how you become and then stay off topic.

I have to admit, Rayray, that I�m a little confused about the topic. I�ve followed that one link at the top and still don�t know what to make of it. So if you want us to stay on topic I would suggest that you make some comments, ask some questions, or post some quotes. Lead us where you want us to go. But right now this thread is sort of just hanging. And because in the very first line you wrote "Recently the so called Forbidden Letters (on resurrection and homosexuality) were discussed on this Forum," homosexuality thus seemed to be on-topic. We�re not mind-readers here, Rayray. What�s the gist of The Forbidden Letters? Can you spell it out?

quote:

Hello Phil. That's funny, because my brother has been at this board before to post the Letters (part 1) . . .

Oh, I remember now; I'd forgotten about that discussion. I'm still skeptical about the prospects.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
[qb] Gentlemen, it is breathtaking how you become and then stay off topic.

I have to admit, Rayray, that I�m a little confused about the topic. I�ve followed that one link at the top and still don�t know what to make of it. So if you want us to stay on topic I would suggest that you make some comments, ask some questions, or post some quotes. Lead us where you want us to go. But right now this thread is sort of just hanging. And because in the very first line you wrote "Recently the so called Forbidden Letters (on resurrection and homosexuality) were discussed on this Forum," homosexuality thus seemed to be on-topic. We�re not mind-readers here, Rayray. What�s the gist of The Forbidden Letters? Can you spell it out? [/qb]

Thanks for your answer. Well, if you read both parts (1 and 2) plus the Magnus Strom article, then the general theory becomes clear. I cannot summarize it better.

WC said: I also think it is a stretch to say that one's sexual orientation imparts any special dispensation re: holiness, or sanctification leading to holiness.

A quote from the Letter link: By the way, your man is a gay man. Born on the 17th of January. In possession of that very special balance in microcosmic male and female forces. A balance never possessed by heterosexual men. And your stone is Christ

I have no idea whether or not gayness imparts any special spiritual advantages. But certainly, whether one is a man or a woman, integrating and understanding the male or female part of us (instead of fighting it or denying it) surely seems like it could do nothing but help a person, in whatever they are doing. And I think that�s what WC said.

Well, if you read both parts (1 and 2) plus the Magnus Strom article, then the general theory becomes clear. I cannot summarize it better.

I was hoping that you would summarize it, Rayray. What�s the point of it all? What, even, is the agenda of it all?

Hi Rayray,

There is no superiority as to the sexes when it comes to attaining the inner marriage of the feminine and masculine energies. Sorry to disagree that homosexuals have an advantage, or that heterosexual men have said advantage over women.

It is clear that in and through marriage a great mystery is promised to husband and wife in their becoming as one within the body of Christ. They are no longer divided, but become as one.

As to single men and women, the Lord our God can by His desire and love give to you what is given in marriage.

I still stand firm in my belief that the alchemists life and pursuit of the philosopher's stone is strewn with great dangers. The horror mentioned in Magnus' report of the kundalini entering the body outside the spinal canal within the body is beyond all our imaginings.

In Revelation Chapter 14, Jesus is standing on mount Sion with one hundred forty four thousand pure spirits having his Father's name written on their foreheads. These are pure spirits having come forth from Christ and the Fathers Holy seed as firstfruits. These come forth from men and women and have nothing to do with being a homosexual.

I see no advantage of homosexuals as to attaing the new birth, as promised by Christ together with the internal marriage of the masculine and feminine energies. We are all equal in this experience of life.

I agree with Magnus' report that it is a devastating cause not attaining the merger of the internal marriage, and the consequences of being divided.

Thank you for sharing this topic, since I enjoy learning of the different ways individuals or groups pursue their spiritual path in their attempt to attain the spiritual "Gold", which I can testify belongs to our Creator, and He alone can give you of same.

There is no superiority as to the sexes when it comes to attaining the inner marriage of the feminine and masculine energies. Sorry to disagree that homosexuals have an advantage, or that heterosexual men have said advantage over women.

We probably shouldn�t be reinforcing stereotypes, but gay men, at least in the arts, truly do seem to access something that most other men � or women � do not. I really don�t know what it means to call something "alchemy." When I use the term I always mean it metaphorically. But there certainly seems to be some kind of alchemy of the male and female in gay men that produces something interesting.

And one would expect in any distinct makeup that there would be some advantage and disadvantages. I don�t doubt that being gay also comes with some disadvantages as well � by and large. Every person is so different, but I think it�s fair to talk in generalities, trends, inclinations, etc.

So if one is gay, and one is looking for a little boost of self-esteem (God knows the troubles that are thrust on gay people which isn�t their fault), then by all means, revel in some of the unique attributes of gayness. But there are also unique attributes to being straight as well. I think the tendency in such circumstances is to overcompensate and, if one is gay and a bit downtrodden, to over-play the unique aspects of being gay while ignoring the downsides. I�m not sure that a Pollyannaish view is every really going to boost our esteem much. In the back of our minds we�re still going to know about the down sides. One might as well admit them.

Just let me know when I'm off topic.

Brad, I respect and honor your opinion, and it may well be that this is how homosexuals feel in using this knowledge to their advantage in their advancement of pursuing their inner alchemy. If this is their belief and understanding they may well see a superiority within their sexuality, which I do not.

I was within a relationship with a closet homosexual and hidden alchemist who may well have been aware of this belief of his superiority in his attempt to rob me of God's spiritual treasures, which he failed in, due to God's love and power. The consequences of his tresspass is not what anyone would desire. It is this mind set of having a special something amongst some homosexuals that can open a door of abuse against the innocent and unknowing. I stress that this experience of mine is not common, but I am not an isolated case having experienced this abuse.

Because of my own experience, I have no anymosity against homosexuals, and reinforce my own belief that they do not have an advantage of any kind, although they may think otherwise. God knows and sees all.

Brad, I am glad that you expressed your views and brought this out into the open. Thank you.

Brad, I respect and honor your opinion, and it may well be that this is how homosexuals feel in using this knowledge to their advantage in their advancement of pursuing their inner alchemy. If this is their belief and understanding they may well see a superiority within their sexuality, which I do not.

I take it that you�ve read more of that link than I have, Freebird. I�m sort of guessing that this is what the "Forbidden Letters" are all about. Is it just another way to advance the homosexual agenda�or is it something more? I�d like to get Rayray�s opinion on this. What is the brief point-of-it-all? Don�t be shy, Rayray. I�m a conservative, indeed, but conservatism is by no means opposed to equal rights for gays. In fact, as Barry Goldwater said, and I�m paraphrasing, "Government has no business looking into the bedrooms of consenting adults."

I was within a relationship with a closet homosexual and hidden alchemist who may well have been aware of this belief of his superiority in his attempt to rob me of God's spiritual treasures, which he failed in, due to God's love and power.

Okay, just for the purposes of this thread, could someone define "alchemist"? What does that mean in this context?

Brad, there are countless of web sites that describe alchemy, spiritual alchemy, its goal and abuses. Use your discretion in your search. Like everything in life their is the positive and negative in its pursuit. I believe the individual who claims to have achieved immortality only worked solitary or with other homosexuals. I do not believe that the Letters endorse abuse of any kind, and I am waiting like you for further information from Rayray.

Brad, there are countless of web sites that describe alchemy, spiritual alchemy, its goal and abuses. Use your discretion in your search.

Okay. Well, I was hoping either you or Rayray could give a brief definition. If someone came to me and asked "What is Christianity?" I think I could provide a ballpark answer: "Christianity is about a fellow named Jesus, who was god incarnate, reconciling mankind with god through his life, death, and resurrection."

Is there is no "nutshell" definition of "spiritual alchemy"? Or is it one of the terms that is so broadly defined that it can mean anything to anybody?

Brad, what a beautiful testimony for our Lord Jesus Christ

I'll try to forward some reputable sites later on today.

love to you.

I'll try to forward some reputable sites later on today.

Well, if spiritual alchemy is, more or less, about the prolongation of life, then I think I understand. But if that�s the definition, why is it like pulling hairs trying to get it from anyone?

Dear members, I've been reading your posts carefully, and I'm goint to say something that is both very irritating and very true: take your time to actuall read the Letters, and not skim them and jump to conclusions. Almost all your questions, and certainly the ones who are important, will be answered then.

I know this, because I know a few things about alchemy and I've had the change to study the Letters and the Stockholm-article longer than you.

Greetings,

Ray.

P.S.

This I write because I refuse to do homework you could do by reading the Letters carefully yourself. I mean this all in a friendly way. (If things sound a little unfriendly.)