"Licentiousness" doesn't refer to a breaking of "The Law" but rather a general lawlessness. Proof of that lies in the use of the word elsewhere in scripture to describe evildoers who were not bound by Jewish law - Greco-Romans, Assyrians, Babylonians etc. And BTW, the word can also be translated "lewdness", but let's not get too pedantic.

And your quote from Jude is completely irrelevant to the passages from Romans. Nor does it refute my assertion that your reading of those passages is totally muddled. You are just not reading what scripture says but conferring your own preconceived meaning on to them to suit your own agenda

And how arrogant you sound, wopik, when you say Jude doesn't agree with my statement.

Your replies are so mechanical, you sound as if you are reading them from a Seventh Day Adventist handbook. You have absolutely no capacity for flexible thinking or discussion. Put something of yourself into these discussions, wopik, and leave your systemised thinking somewhere else. You'll find it very libertating, or is that lawlessness?

Also: ARE YOU CIRCUMCISED?

Hi, all ----


Colossians 2:16 ---- Paul is telling these Christians not to accept criticism for keeping the holydays, new moons and sabbath days for they are a shadow of things to come; but the reality of all this is Christ.

If the holydays of the Bible are done away with, so is eating and drinking, for they are listed there, too.

Where is the statement that says we shouldn't keep these days? Colossians 2:16 assumes they are keeping the holydays,etc., and says don't let anyone judge you for it.

This is 'rock solid' proof that the mostly gentile Colossian church was keeping these days.

Here is my question? What is there about being 'a shadow' that means you don't do it? And if it is a shadow of things to come, then it hasn't been fulfilled yet --- and if it hasn't been fulfilled yet, why would anyone assume it's been done away with?

Once again you have sidestepped certain criticisms of your technique and several other questions. You have completely ignored Phil's answer to your previous post and basically just regurgitated the same drivel. Bravo!

Do you keep every new moon festival? Everyone? All the Jewish festivals? Do you know them all? If you don't you're a hypocrite.

And: ARE YOU CIRCUMCISED?

P.S. Is there a gremlin for being bored witless?

Colossians 2:16 ---- Paul is telling these Christians not to accept criticism for keeping the holydays, new moons and sabbath days for they are a shadow of things to come; but the reality of all this is Christ.

Actually, it's quite the opposite: he's telling them not to accept criticism for NOT keeping them!

Amazing how you spin things. . .

quote:

he's telling them not to accept criticism for NOT keeping them!

there is only one "negative" in verse 16: "do NOT let anyone judge you........"


'the living bible paraphrased' likes to add an extra NOT in this verse, too --- "so do not let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for NOT celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths."

The first NOT is legit; the second one isn't.

Take out the bogus second NOT, and 'the living bible paraphrased' gets a BINGO!

wopik, the frikkin' context for all these letters from Paul is telling people they DON'T have to do all that old Jewish stuff any more. Him telling the Colossians not to let anyone (read: Jewish persecutors of early Christians) judge them about the Sabbath implies that they ought not accept judgments for NOT keeping those old, no-longer-necessary laws.

Keep them if you want, wopik -- all of them. I don't really care; truly, I don't! But don't expect anyone here to accept your distorted interpretations of the Bible or your implications that Christians who celebrate the sabbath on Sunday now are doing something that God doesn't want.

Five pages of this . . . enough, now. Thread closed. If another on this topic opens, I'll delete it at once.