A bit of research on Sunday Blue Laws. In Colorado,
one may not purchase an automobile, house or liquor
on Sunday. Here are some others:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law

http://www.gothamgazette.com/a...eek/20030526/200/405

wopik,

Do you believe we have become overly secular?

mm <*)))))><

I do think the Pope's got the right idea about people keeping the Sabbath, although I'm not sure I agree that we ought not watch ballgames and such. The overall spirit of the day is that it ought to be one of rest, recreation and restoration; theistically, this would also entail more time given to developing the relationship with God.

I think we need a sabbath. Without it, we do become progressively secular, materialistic and anxious.

In July, 1998, Pope John Paul II issued a lengthy Pastoral Letter, Dies Domini, which appeals to Christians to observe Sunday as the fulfillment of the Sabbath, and calls for civil legislation to facilitate Sunday observance.

In a break with traditional Catholic teaching, which until now, has admitted that Sunday-keeping came from Church tradition rather than Scriptural mandate, the Pope attempts to provide Biblical support for Sunday-keeping.

Hi to Phil and everyone.

Here is a book entitled: The Sabbath under Crossfire. A few chapters are available online. I haven't read it all yet, but Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi is a big supporter of the creation SABBATH.

http://www.biblicalperspective...sabbath_under_xfire/

Thanks, Wopik. I live near an extremely orthodox community of Lubovitch Jews. I've been observing for
the last seven years how they are rushing home on Friday evening to begin observance of Shabbat. There must be something to it, as the tradition and culture has survived for thousands of years.

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

Thank you, mysticalmichael9.

**********************************************

If Sunday were already regarded as the "Lord�s day," Paul could have mentioned it.

But, though Paul was familiar with the adjective "Lord�s" � kuriakos (since he uses it in 1Cor.11:20 to designate the nature of the supper), he did not apply it to Sunday.

In the same epistle in fact, Paul refers to the day by the Jewish designation "first day of the week" (1 Cor. 16:2).

The first struugle in the infant church was the differentiation between the old religion and the new
-Peter and Paul had one heck of a time with it, and I guess it took over a century to hash it out...

caritas,

mm <*))))><

quote:

and I guess it took over a century to hash it out...

I believe you are right, mysticalmichael9.

In Clement�s Epistle to the Corinthians, known as "the earliest Christian document that has come down to us outside the New Testament" (dated about A.D. 95),

The omission of the Lord�s Supper and of Sunday worship � the most telling symbols of all � is certainly surprising, if indeed, as some hold, the Eucharist was already celebrated on Sunday and had acquired the commemorative value of the resurrection.

What more effective way for the Bishop of Rome to reassure the Corinthian Christians of their future resurrection than by reminding them that the Lord�s Supper, of which they partook every Sunday, was their most tangible assurance of their own resurrection!

Clement, on the contrary, not only omits this rite which later became commemorative of the resurrection, but even speaks of "the sacrifices and services" offered "at the appointed times" in the temple of Jerusalem as "things the Master has commanded us to perform".

Hi to everyone --

Is it possible that Christians, in their search for a day of worship distinct from the Sabbath, perceived in "the day of the Sun" a valid substitute -- since its rich symbology could effectively express Christian truth ?


The resurrection of Christ was already [ca. 140 AD] felt to be a valid motivation for assembling on the day of the Sun to offer worship to God.

But, as W. Rordorf admits, "in Justin�s First Apology (67, 7) the primary motivation for the observance of Sunday is to commemorate the first day of creation and only secondarily, in addition, the resurrection of Jesus."

The resurrection, presented by both Barnabas and Justin as a additional reason for keeping Sunday, will however gradually become the fundamental motivation for Sunday worship.

for bibliographical references, see the link below --

http://www2.andrews.edu/~samue...ath_to_sunday/7.html

It would be really disappointing to die and discover that I was going to hell because I'd been celebrating the Lord's Day on Sunday instead of Saturday.

OTOH, I wouldn't really care to spend eternity with such a God anyway . . .

Someone mentioned that "Sun" day was adopted since the pagan sun worshippers were dispaced by the Christian faith, who simply took over the day. I don't know if the story is apocryphal or not.

Maybe the Seventh Day Adventist winds up seeing St.
Peter at the Gate and he tells them, "Yeah, I know,
I had the day wrong too, which is why I have to work
as bouncer, now get down and give me 52 pushups, one for each week you worshipped on the wrong day!

quote:

OTOH, I wouldn't really care to spend eternity with such a God anyway . . .

Jesus' first edict, when He returns, will be to enforce the Feast of Tabernacles on the whole human race -- Zechariah 14:16-19.

quote:

The European calendar depicts Monday as the first day of the week; Sunday is the seventh. Perhaps it was an attempt....

.....to stay true to the seventh day being holy to the LORD.

The only authority that could change "times" and "seasons" in Europe would be the universal church.

They counterfeited the Lord's true seventh day with a FALSE seventh day.

Isn't that OT, on the universal church's part, to want to stay true to the seventh day ?

quote:

Originally posted by wopik:
[qb]

quote:

OTOH, I wouldn't really care to spend eternity with such a God anyway . . .

Jesus' first edict, when He returns, will be to enforce the Feast of Tabernacles on the whole human race -- Zechariah 14:16-19. [/qb]

LOL! Well, now that we've settled that one, the next question is what the *second thing* he will do might be?

Wopik, do you really in your heart of hearts believe that Jesus will insist that the whole world will be mandated to "come up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the feast of Booths." (Zech. 14: 16). And that those who don't come will receive no rain, or fall to the plague? (v. 17-18). Might this not be apocalyptic hyperbole? Consider the image of God implied, and how at-odds that is with who Jesus was and what he taught.

An interesting interpretation of the Feast of Tabernacles as symbolic of the millennial reign of Christ is found in the writings of the late third century Catholic commentator, Methodius.

Although he evidently did not keep the festival himself, he perceived it � perhaps reflecting an earlier tradition � as picturing a time when the "earthy tabernacles" would be put off and Christians made immortal would celebrate the true feast (Symposium 9.1).

Never heard of Methodius, so now you are getting into more interesting areas. What do you make of Psalms 123:7, Hebrews 9:11 and Revelation 21:3 ?
These seem a bit more metaphorical and mystical, wouldn't you say?

Rev
21:3
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.


Lev
26:11
I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.

The Millennial Debate -> Methodius of Olympus

http://www.lessonsonline.info/MillennialismEarly.htm

Thank you, Wopik. I'm looking forward to reading more about the church fathers, including Methodius.
As far as the end times, I am leaning rather more toward Augustine's view, that it is mostly none of our business. I used to hold a strong millennialist view, but am no longer so sure of myself. It seems one of those disputed questions that go round and round.

When you use a concordance and seek out all the scriptures on "tabernacle" or "tabernacles," and
seek out only the allegorical meanings, "In Salem shall be his tabernacle" (Salem meaning peace), you can come up with an answer about what happens inside of us. I still would not rule out a literal
meaning, and neither did some of the fathers.

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

Hello to all
You know it seems to me that we are to keep the sabbath according to whats written. I brought this up to my sister. She was a nun and worked in Peru. I also was raised a catholic (alter boy).But as i read the bible i kept seeing that we are to keep Gods sabbath day. Gettin back to my sister the sister, she implied what ever the pope says goes, even if its contrary to scripture.Is this really the belief or was she off base? I dont think she spent to much time reading the bible as she was more concerned with helpin the peruvian people.

Nothing the pope says is contrary to Scripture, so there's no problem there. Of course, the pope isn't too concerned about whether the Sabbath ought to be on Saturday or Sunday, and if this is a spiritual big deal, so maybe that's the difference.

Thanks for popping in, DansingWall. Let's hear more from you.

Here's an interesting archieved article on this subject:

....says James Efird, professor of biblical interpretation at Duke University Divinity School in North Carolina. "As far as I know, there is no verse which specifies that Sunday is the day for Christians to observe the Sabbath."


Bacchiocchi says the Church of Rome, which grew into the Roman Catholic Church, had great influence in promoting Sunday observance.

"The Church of the capital of the empire, whose authority was already felt far and wide in the second century, appears to be the most likely birth-place of Sunday observance," he writes in his book


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n...asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908

In May 1998, Pope John Paul II issued an apostolic letter on the subject, entitled Dies Domini (The Lord's Day). In it, the pontiff refers to the origins of Sunday-keeping.

"In the weekly reckoning of time, Sunday recalls the day of Christ's Resurrection," writes the pope. "It is Easter which returns week by week, celebrating Christ's victory over sin and death, the fulfillment in him of the first creation and the dawn of 'the new creation.'"

But, Sunday is as incorrect of a date as Dec. 25 is. Jesus seems to have risen late Sabbath afternoon, which would give the Sabbath Day even additional Christian significance.

Click here

- edited by Phil to reduce the length of the URL so that the page would load on my monitor. -

"I personally believe he was crucified on Wednesday evening ... and rose after 6 p.m. Saturday evening," Jerry Falwell tells WorldNetDaily.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n...asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908

What an amazing discussion!

wopik, I do hope you sleep better at night for feeling reassured that you keep the Sabbath on the correct day of the week.