Ah, yes, taking refuge in Jerry Falwell. Wopik, you certainly work hard at painting yourself into a corner. But it's your corner. And that's apparently all that matters.

I really dont read any books outside the bible (and the Babe Ruth Story as a kid) but i did come across this

In the book the Faith of our Fathers which was written by James cardinal Gibbons in 1876, he makes this statement.�But you may read the bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.�

Ive got to figure he knows what hes talkin about.

EZEKIEL 20 [12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

The sabbath is a sign between God and his people that the �Lord does sanctify them�. Read what Gibbons said about sanctification.

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

I just love Day of the Lord scriptures. No one can claim that the scripture is for ancient Israel, because its yet to be fulfilled. Anyways, if the sabbath is a sign that God sanctifys you. Who are those that �sactify themselves�?

Just a little somethin extra to show how great the WORD is! There are only 2 places in the KJV where the words �moreover also� can be found

EZEK.20 [12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them

ACTS 2 [26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

If you will notice in ACTS 2 the WORD says �my flesh shall rest in hope�. Just as GODS 4th commandment tells us to do. Not only rest in spirit but the flesh also.

quote:

Originally posted by w.c.:
[qb] Ah, yes, taking refuge in Jerry Falwell. Wopik, you certainly work hard at painting yourself into a corner. But it's your corner. And that's apparently all that matters. [/qb]

Proverbs 21:9
It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.

Well,
Just went back through thread to see what scriptures the sunday go to meeting people use as their reasoning for keeping mans day of rest as oppossed to Gods. Couldnt find one scripture. Like i said, i was raised a catholic so it doesnt surprise me one bit. Take care people. See yas at the Great White.

Just wanna leave yas with somethin to think about

MATT.18 [11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. [12] How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[13] And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

The Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.[6] My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

My people hath been lost sheep.They have forgotten their restingplace (they sure have).Let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten (remember the�)

Well, In Jeremiah we can find the sheep that Jesus came for. Have the many been decieved, just as the new testament says. The sabbath rest has been forgotten, but as you can see, the lost sheep that Jesus came for will return to the �perpetual covenant� and keep Gods sabbath day.

EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

If you have a KJV bible you will find the words �perpetual covenant� only in these 2 scriptures. Aint the WORD of God great! Jesus said that he was Lord of the sabbath day. Who is Lord over your day of rest? There remaineth therefore a rest(hebrews 4)to the people of God.

Take care people

http://www.senate.gov/referenc...rson/barry_black.htm
http://news.adventist.org/data...874531/index.html.en
This is getting out of hand. Sabbath breakers in the
highest levels of our Great Republic! Scandalous!

quote:

Originally posted by DansingWall:
[qb] Well,
Just went back through thread to see what scriptures the sunday go to meeting people use as their reasoning for keeping mans day of rest as oppossed to Gods. Couldnt find one scripture. Like i said, i was raised a catholic so it doesnt surprise me one bit. Take care people. See yas at the Great White. [/qb]

wopik has a sidekick now, I see.

And is that a "broadside" taken against Catholics? Nah, couldn't be, eh?

I think the poet James Tate has it about right . . . . .


A Knock At the Door

"They ask me if I've ever thought about the end of the world, and I say,
"Come in, come in, let me give you some lunch, for God's sake."
After a few bites it's the afterlife they want to talk about.
"Ouch," I say, "did you see that grape leaf skeletonizer?"
Then they're talking about
redemption and the chosen few sitting right by
His side. "Doing what?" I ask. "Just sitting?" I
am surrounded by burned up zombies. "Let's
have some lemon chiffon pie I bought yesterday
at the 3 Dog Bakery." But they want to talk about
my soul. I'm getting drowsy and see butterflies
everywhere. "Would you gentlemen like to take a
nap, I know I would." They stand and back away
from me, out the door, walking toward my
neighbors, a black cloud over their heads and
they see nothing without end."

I just found it interesting that a "mainstreamer" like Falwell would actually say that he thinks Jesus died on a Wednesday and rose late Saturday.


**************************************

quote:

wopik, I do hope you sleep better at night for feeling reassured that you keep the Sabbath on the correct day of the week.

that was the whole point in God giving the manna lesson to the Israelites; so they knew which day the Lord wanted them to keep holy and honor (Isa. 58:13-14).

It's all working out for the highest good. There are
more than a few struggling congregations which, not being able to afford their own facility, have their meetings in empty Seventh Day facilities that are still filled with the sweet aura of praise and worship from the day before. I went to such a church
when Saturday nights was the only time my schedule permitted, and no congregation in town had better
worship and preaching. Fond memories...

Hi Wopik
The sign of Jonas.

If the resurrection of Jesus actually occurred on Sunday morning, it is odd indeed that the early church bureaucrates jumped on another reason to keep sunday, eg., the creation of the sun/light on the first day of the week.


Ignatius, Barnabas and Justin only timidly, secondarily, as an aside, gradually introduce the concept of a sunday resurrection of Christ.

http://www2.andrews.edu/~samue...ath_to_sunday/7.html

The polemic arguments presented by Barnabas both to invalidate the Sabbath and to justify the eighth as the continuation and replacement of the seventh, reveal how strong antiJudaic feelings motivated the adoption of Sunday as a new day of worship.

However, his paradoxical argumentation, his failure to distinguish clearly between the seventh and the eighth eschatological periods, and his uncertain theology of Sunday all seem to indicate that a distinct separation between Judaism and Christianity as well as between Sabbath and Sunday observance had not yet taken place, at least in Alexandria.28


28. C. S. Mosna, Storia della domenica, p. 26, aptly remarks that Barnabas� intricate and irrational argumentation is indicative "of the effort which Judaeo-Christians were making to justify their worship."

Forgive me, wopik, but what in tarnation are you talking about? Barnabas? Paul's buddy? Writing something about worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday? Justifying this to whom?

(Back to the library with you, young man! Go on now . . . you've got to do better than the quote above! )

Hey, Phil --

The 2nd Century Barnabas.

Barnabas as in: Ignatius, Barnabas and Justin Martyr.

The Epistle of Barnabas, dated by the majority of the scholars between A.D. 130 and 138, was written by a pseudonymous Barnabas probably at Alexandria......

http://www2.andrews.edu/~samue...ath_to_sunday/7.html

This is delicate!

But I'm wondering if wopik is circumcised. Circumcision would seem to be the whole basis of the old covenant so anyone promoting the agenda wopik does would need to be circumcised to hold any weight.

Then again, if he is, what on earth did Paul write all that stuff in Galatians for!?

And:
Romans 6:14 - ". . . for you are not under law but under grace."
Romans 7:4 - " . . . you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ."

Good question, Stephen.

OTOH, Paul would probably consider this whole discussion to be an example of the kind of thing he advises against in Col. 2: 16.

Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day.

Checkmate!

quote:

Romans 7:4 - " . . . you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ."

yes, Stephen. We are dead, not the law.

Like a transgressor or criminal hiding in the bushes a few yards off and watching an innocent man being dragged to the gallows for a crime we committed, that man is paying dearly for our crimes.

When the innocent man is hanging lifeless from the rope a few minutes later, the law and the posse won't be searching the woods any more. Now the real criminal can walk FREE, for he is dead to the law through the lifeless body swinging from the gallows.

For he that is "dead" is FREED... - Rom 6:7


Romans 6:14 - ". . . for you are not under the law but under grace."

wopik,

Eh?
What?

That's so much rubbish. It's twisted.

"YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW."
You are dead "TO" the law.

And are you circumcised?

Anyway, I'm through. My head's had enough of brick walls.

Yoo hoo . . .

wopik . . .

You're ignoring me . . .

-----

Col. 2: 16.

Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day.

Checkmate!

-----

That admonition would apply to YOU, dear wopik, and your obsession with doing things on the "correct day" as though God gives a hootleedoo about any of that!

wopik,

In Scandanavian tradition Woden's Day is the sabbath
preceding Thor's Day. I read the comic books, and I really Wodent mess around with Thor.

quote:

Col. 2: 16.

Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day.

2:16
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,


2:17
which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.


"Let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink," since some people apparently were passing judgment. Of course, eating and drinking are only a "shadow" . (forerunner) of what is to come, but the solid "body" (ultimate goal) belongs to Christ.

Does that mean we should no longer eat and drink? Hardly.

Paul is showing that the ascetic practices some wished to enforce were of little real substance,

Any eating or abstinence is not the end but only a means to an end.

A Sabbath observer could say the same about the Sabbath and holy days. They are � not were � a shadow of what is to come; and therefore are still important and necessary, just as eating and drinking are.

Stephen

quote:

wopik,

Eh?
What?

That's so much rubbish. It's twisted.

Jude doesn't agree with your statement.

1:4
"For certain intruders have stolen in among you, people who long ago were designated for this condemnation as ungodly, who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

licentiousness > lawlessness > (a)nomia > without law


http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/ -- type into the search box "iniquity", the NT Greek word is Anomia --

Lexicons > Greek > Anomia

wopik:
Paul is showing that the ascetic practices some wished to enforce were of little real substance. . .

Quite so, and he included in his list people who were insisting that the Sabbath be observed (presumably in a Jewish manner, as the Gentiles had no such observance and didn't use that name).


Does that mean we should no longer eat and drink? Hardly.

Oh please!

It does mean we should not "let anyone else decide what you should eat or drink," especially with a view of making oneself righteous by doing so.

(Again and again you demonstrate this inability to comprehend context.)

Any eating or abstinence is not the end but only a means to an end.

Right, but the end has nothing to do with Christian spiritual growth; that's the point.

And neither does keeping the Jewish Sabbath!

A Sabbath observer could say the same about the Sabbath and holy days. They are � not were � a shadow of what is to come; and therefore are still important and necessary, just as eating and drinking are.

Yes, they could say this, but their point would be as irrelevant in the context intended by Paul as is yours!