I have been a Christian mystic since I was five years old, for sixty-three years now. I have been a Christian mystic yogi for forty-five years now. I have spent most of my adult life (thousands of hours) in mystic contemplation and meditation with Jesus as my Master and guide. And I have met Shiva and have been close friends with him for fifteen years now.

Now based on my years of exploring the mind body relationship to the exclusion of practically everything else, there are two different things happening when it comes to the Holy Spirit and the Kundalini. At least relative to the true Hindu yogis Kundalini. The Holy Spirit is an "upper hypothalamus" phenomenon and the Kundalini is a "lower hypothalamus" phenomenon. And the Holy Spirit is a Pituitary Gland (right side of the body, left side of the brain, and front energy with golden white light) phenomenon and the Kundalini, as true yogi tradition does it, is a Pineal Gland (left side of the body, right side of the brain, back energy with white or bluish white light) phenomenon. They are not the same thing.

The Holy Spirit is a gift that comes down from the Divine that enters the energy area that is in front of the upper part of your forehead and from there It vitalizes your whole body. The Kundalini when done right is an attempt to wake up (what you put thought into wakes up) the primal energy that lies in the two lower chakras (or the tip of the tail bone) and raise this energy up into the Divine. It is a building of the Tower of Babylon so to speak but in an energy sense. Now what is funny about this is that the energy that comes down from the Divine as a gift of the Holy Spirit also wakes up this energy in the lower chakras, but it does it in a balanced way that does not raise it. It is just "on" along with everything else.

Because the Gift of the Holy Spirit is an upper hypothalamus phenomenon it is a positive pleasant experience. Because the raising of the Kundalini is a lower hypothalamus experience one has to conquer "fear" before it can be lifted into the Divine or the energy centers that are above your head, depending on what your goal is. Once the "fear" is conquered it becomes an energy source that is beyond your imagination. Most can not conquer that "fear" because that "fear" is like walking through the Valley of the Fear of Death with the Valley being on steroids.

To be continued if it is ok with Phil...

All questions are welcome.

love, tucker

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Always good to hear from you, Tucker. I surely agree with your distinctions between the Holy Spirit and the kundalini process, and how the former can awaken the latter -- am writing a book about that right now.

Your info about endocrine gland associations is new to me, but I'm listening. Any references you can offer about that would be appreciated.

See also https://shalomplace.org/eve/for.../25010765/m/68310806 which I think resonates with some of what you're sharing.

I am the reference Phil and I have no validity as a reference. So Phil I do not have any references. What I am doing is practicing how to create a verbal reality to will allow science to measure the presence of the Kundalin Force in a Kundalini master and to measure the presence of the Holy Spirit in those folks where the Holy Spirit is actually present in. The presence of the Kundalini and the Holy Spirit create two different brain chemistry environments and they stimulate different areas of the brain. And the brain chemistry environment along with the areas of the the brain that are activated can be measured with today's technology. The problem is that somebody who has actually experienced both phenomenon has to create a hypotheses that can be tested. "Where do you look?" is the question. And I do not really expect anybody to actually understand what I am attempting to explain because they are not scientists. And I do not expect science to be interested because they are busy doing other more important things.

Phil I have been in meditation for so long now that I can see and feel clearly the energies that living things radiate as a part of their living processes and with human beings I can see and feel what parts of their brains that are awake and what parts of their nervous systems that are awake. It is a bit depressing when you encounter a person that has certain parts of their brain shut off and you know that they are either sick or that they are going to be sick. Especially when those parts of the brain effects their immune system because there is nothing you can do about it. But, with gifts comes an ups to downs to things. Oh well.

I am a yogi because the yogi folks were claiming to Christians that they could get enlightenment through their paths that these Christians could not get through Christianity or the Christian Churches or the Christian faith. I went to Lord Jesus and asked Him to show me what they know so that I can see what is real and what is not. Now forty-five years later with thousands of hours of meditation and meditative pray experience I am an advanced student of Yoga Science, the foundation science behind all meditations and yogi traditions. And I studied it the way that the ancient masters did. The ones that created and set up all of the different traditions.

To me it is no big deal because I do not want to be a Guru or a religious leader. But I do find the relationship between the mind and the brain and body an interesting study. I like being able to stimulate different areas of my brain and body and see and feel the effects. I can consciously activate the different bliss centers in my brain if I want to but that is not my goal. My goal to get control of the foundation personality programming in my subconscious mind that I picked up in my early childhood so that I can give the Holy Spirit free reign in my mind, brain, and nervous system. That foundation programming in my subconscious mind keeps shutting off the connection to the Holy Spirit the instant that it's negativity is threatened. The Holy Spirit can not over ride my will and this foundation programing in my subconscious mind, the automated part of my brain, some how controls my will and it says no. To the point where if pushed it begins to shut down my brain and nervous system without my conscious mind's permission. I begin to experience the same experience that you would experience if a tyranosaurus Rex reached down and grabbed you in its mouth. And what is funny Phil is that if you were to attempt to go into the foundation programming of your subconscious mind, even just to look at it, which you wouldn't do because you are a wise person, it would do the same thing to you. Which is why when most of us attempt to change our personalities in any significant way we encounter a whole lot of resistance.

Anyway I do not try to change anyone anymore, I just try to stay within their programming. Or just to stay away from them if that is not possible.

Love, tucker

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Thanks for sharing, Tucker. Have you thought of writing up your story and learnings in a book? That would make for most interesting reading.

Here's a snippet from the book I'm working on, Kundalini and Spirituality, that seems to resonate with some of what you're saying.

quote:

Every world religion recognizes the reality of human brokenness — that we all grow up in a world of conditional love, where we experience shame, rejection, neglect and abuse. To compensate, we recoil in fear and develop complicated, interlocking systems of defenses that impact all three levels of our human nature. Cleaning up our inner “mess” is important inner work that can entail counseling, journaling, forgiveness, meditation, etc. In almost every case of kundalini awakening, however, one’s brokenness will become painfully exposed, moreso in certain individuals than others. A premature awakening due to excessive meditative practices can be especially disruptive, as the energy cannot flow properly or attain its desired goal if embodied defenses skew its flow. Nevertheless, kundalini can also be a great ally unto healing, as it pushes its way through the human system, dismantling defenses, unblocking energy passageways, and prodding one to keep on going. In some strange way, as Jim Arraj has noted (an essay by him was cited), the destination is embedded in the energy itself, and we can sense this even as we struggle.

But let us all be clear, here: even in the best of cases, integrating a kundalini awakening is a very difficult process, and few there are who achieve this without ongoing issues. We can come to a place of sufficient healing and awakening to live a “normal” human life, but it will never be one that is devoid of struggle, and many will need to drastically adjust their lifestyle. The reason is that we are just too sick to ever become completely healthy, and if that weren’t bad enough, the human cultures we have created keep dragging us down as well. God is present through it all, however, and can further help us to cope and find our way.

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
Because the raising of the Kundalini is a lower hypothalamus experience one has to conquer "fear" before it can be lifted into the Divine or the energy centers that are above your head, depending on what your goal is. Once the "fear" is conquered it becomes an energy source that is beyond your imagination. Most can not conquer that "fear" because that "fear" is like walking through the Valley of the Fear of Death with the Valley being on steroids.

Hi, Tucker, That's interesting what you say about fear being the thing that needs to be conquered. I've read other people say similar things. One author (who shall remain nameless) wrote about this final barrier of fear:

quote:

Down the road from where I lived there was a monastery by the sea, and on afternoons when I could get away I liked to spend some time alone in the silence of its chapel. This particular afternoon was no different than others. Once again there was a pervasive silence and once again I waited for the onset of fear to break it up. But this time the fear never came. Whether by habit of expectation or the reality of a fear held in abeyance, I felt some moments of suspense or tension -- as if waiting for fear to touch me. During these moments of waiting I felt as if I were poised on a precipice or balanced on a thin tightrope, with the known (myself) on one side and the unknown (God) on the other. A movement of fear would have been a movement toward the self and the known. Would I pass over this time, or would I fall back into my self -- as usual? Since there was no power of my own to move or choose I knew the decision was not mine; within, all was still, silent and motionless. In this stillness I was not aware of the moment when the fear and tension of waiting had left. Still, I continued to wait for a movement not of myself and when no movement came, I simply remained in a great stillness.

Is this the same fear as the fear that you are talking about?

Well, I know where that quote comes from, Derek.

Wow guys ! You are hitting the nail on the head with a really heavy hammer.

Hi Derek, it is nice to meet you! In answer to your question, yes. And your second quote describes the mind environment of that fear perfectly as well as the mind state where mystics live. And at the point where, "I simply remained in great stillness," you begin to download the unknown into your mind, for lack of any other term. And over time you will begin to understand what it is that you have downloaded and you then experience a cognitive leap, for lack of any other term. Now a lot of people have this experience once or twice and then they quit because they feel that now they know and understand and because of this they no longer have to go back out onto that ledge and deal with that fear. But a mystic says, "That information was awesome but now it is old news." And he or she goes right back to that ledge into that fear for more. They walk through that "valley of the fear of death" to get to the "brink" each time they do it. Based on my experience it does get easier because the "Unknown" becomes less scary or at least seems to become less scary and way more fun than life is. Which can then create the problem where mystics go out there and they do not come back.

Now with myself as a mystic I have reached the point where I have over came the fear of the "Unknown". I love the "Unknown". I love being immersed in the "Unknown". And my problem has now become my fears of life as a physical being. And these fears are programming that I picked up in my early childhood. And these fears are not only "not" valid, they are also self destructive. So, now my challenge is "not" leaving and taking my mind somewhere else because the more I face these programmed into me fears of physical life, the more immobilized physically and mentally I become. In the "Unknown" I am at home, but in physical life I am not. But at the same time I am like a dog with a bone and I want those fears solved. Now what is funny is that those old personality programming fears are also a fear of the unknown but a different unknown than the "Unknown". Because the "Unknown" won't hurt me, but the physical unknown can hurt me. And in the physical world I can never feel "safe".

This is where "Faith" comes in. My childhood personality programming will not allow me to have "Faith". If I had "Faith" there would be no problem. So, the best that I can do is have "Hope". But this childhood programming is constantly nibbling away at "Hope" leaving me periodically having to deal with "hopelessness". Which is very debilitating. Hopelessness brings one to a screeching halt . And it starts to shut down the physical mind and body which then leads to becoming very sick. During these bouts of hopelessness I literally run my nervous system with my conscious mind to keep it from shutting down, which as a yogi with years of experience I have learned how to do. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to explore these personality programming fears up close and in your face because they when explored very closely would make me very very sick.

Both fears are a fear of the "unknown" with one being the fear of the "Transcendental" "Unknown" and the other being a fear of the physical future unknown, the "Imminent", for lack of any other term.

How do you conquer a fear ("Hopelessness") that can kill you or make you very very sick, if you mess with it, without faith?

Derek, thank you for your question. I hope that I have answered it. Your question has been very helpful to me because attempting to answer it has helped me to understand better what it is that I am dealing with. And to understand better where it is that I am as a mystic. Thank you !

Love, tucker

Phil, what you have posted of your writings is awesome! I personally do not think that it is possible for what you said to be better said . Why do I not write about my experiences? Well Phil, I use to write and want to write, but then I encountered editors . I have a very strong dislike for editors. And now I don't write because I am not a professional writer and actually have no longer a desire to be. Phil you are a professional writer and you know the heart aches and the huddles that you had to jump through to become a professional writer. I am now too old to have to or want to deal with the learning curves that you had to go through to become a professional writer.

Phil, my mind is tarting to go in all kinds of reasons why I do not write anymore, but if I was honest about it, I would have to say that my real reason is the fear I have of success that is written deep in the childhood programming that lies in the automated part of my mind. My subconscious. Which is why I have always been an under achiever. I am highly creative and in the bright range of intelligence, I have a university degree in Botany with basically a minor in biology and I have done absolutely nothing with it my entire life. Because of my deep fear of success. If I was able to help somebody in their success I would be in seventh Heaven as long as I was not directly attempting to become successful myself.

You know something, talking about this has brought up the possibility that my fear of success is the foundation fear of all my fears. They are branches off of that one fear. And that fear seems to have come from my mother and it seems to be a old family fear that has been pasted down through several hundred generations of her side of the family and it seems to be carried by the female side of the family. Which is interesting because that fear is located in the female side of my brain. Humm ?

Phil, your question about why I do not write has created an interesting key to the possibility of understanding the fear hierarchy of the foundation programming of my subconscious mind ! Yea! and thank you!

Love, tucker

Tucker, I'm glad you have found so much value in my post. I think that's incredible!

I don't much like editors, either. The last book I wrote was rejected by 8 publishers, for various reasons, none of which pertained to the quality of writing.

But, fwiw, I think you're a good enough writer to tell your own story in your own words, and that you communicate in an honest, straightforward manner that is refreshing. There are good self-publishing options now, as with lulu.com, which is what I've used to re-print and publish some of my out-of-print books, and new ones I've written. They do provide assistance if one desires, but you can also do it for free. So there's that option. But if you just don't want to do it, that's surely understandable, too.

Anyway . . . those internalized programs are the hardest stuff to deal with, for sure.

Thank you Phil for giving me options for publishing. They are very much appreciated. It seems not to be so much about not wanting to do it, it seems to be more about being afraid to do it . I know that the odds of anything that I would publish ever being a success without the backing of an established publishing firm is very low. So technically my fear could be consider misplaced as a reason not to write. And technically almost everything that I have ever come up with and explored is published in the magazine that is your message board and you are the publisher and editor that allowed me to publish it for free. So no matter how one looks at it, I have gotten to have the excitement of being published one post at a time . Yea!

And hopefully I am also contributing to something that you are doing at the same time even though in the past I have been a bit weird and maybe a bit of an awkward child at the time. But over the past five years or so I have made some personality changes to weed out that kind of behavior. With the understanding that I really appreciate you being so patient with me. And to be honest with you I learned a lot by interacting with you in the past and watching you interact with others. Which is why I am somewhat of a better person today especially when it comes to interacting with others in a social environment.

And you and I have a common interest in the effects of the uncontrolled rising of the Kundalini even though we are approaching things from different directions with some overlap in our approaches, we both love Lord Jesus is one of those overlaps. I will buy and read your book when you get it published whether I get a free copy or not because I appreciate the effort that goes into writing a book. And I will also read it because I want study the information that you present and because I want to see how you present this information . I want to study your writing style for that particular book to use for future reference should I decide to write and publish a book also about my experiences as Christian mystic yogi and the things that I have learned from the experience. No pressure Phil as tucker says as he is sitting on the edge of his chair . That sentence is not punctuated right and probably needs some sever editing. Arg!

Anyway Phil, now that I know what the foundation fear of all of my fears is and that it is directly associated with the fear of death, I can over time over come it. In the meantime I am, if it is ok with you, going to hang out here and practice my writing style and the interacting with others in a social situation with the hope that I am contributing something positive to what you are attempting to do here. I love making a post and am somewhat addicted to make a post , but at the same time I want that post to be a positive contribution to the mission of this message board. I love you!

Love, tucker

Tucker, you are so welcome here, and your posts are appreciated. There just aren't too many Christians with the yogic experiences you've had, so your witness and wisdom about this is most helpful.

Since you've known people who've gone deeply into samadhi and other meditative states, I'm wondering if you think those kinds of experiences help to transform the fear and internal programming you've described in recent posts? In my own experience, it sometimes seems that such exalted states of consciousness enable us to live "around" our brokenness -- even to escape from it through a kind of spiritual dissociation. What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you Phil for your really nice words! They are very up lifting!

"Live around our brokenness--"? Phil, In my opinion a wise person would use these exalted states to enable them to live around their "brokenness" (which is a very good descriptive word ). Like our beloved Lord and Savior said, "You are in this world but not of it." Which is the mind reality that these exalted states create. Another example is the breaking of the Third Dharma Seal in Buddhism. Which is basically being able to immerse yourself in the "Unknown" without any attempt or need to understand It or manipulate It.

The problem is that "Life", as a noun, has "push", as a verb. And that push requires a response of some sort or things begin to fall apart. Which is why historically speaking one becomes a monk and does not to any great extent participate in "Life". Now in Buddhism you also reach a stage where you with this exalted state reenter "Life". But you do not attempt to have anything or to maintain anything. You just do what you can to be a help to others. Now Taoism, as another approach, does try to teach one how to be in an exalted state and participate in "Life" at the same time. But the problem with Taoism is that it is very hard to understand. And when you do understand it it is about the manipulation of "Push" . Which then gives being in an exalted state a whole new set of possibilities !

Samadhi? Samadhi means, the ability to become "one" with something. And the different levels of Samadhi are a measurement of how deep you can become "one" with something. With the goal being, I suppose, being totally at "one" with your Divine Self. The problem with exalted states, with the exception of Taoism, is that these exalted states as a goal lead to a state of being that is beyond this "Life" and its "Push". So attempting to use this state of exalted as a way around "brokenness" in order to participate in "Life" with its "Push" is contradiction to the stated goals of these exalted states. The object of these exalted states is to escape the "Push" of "Life" and go onto the next level of existence as a higher being and as entities are no longer trapped in this world by the "Push" of "Life" and how we are programmed to respond to it.

And based on my experience, when I try to integrate these exalted states of being or understandings into ways or a way that over comes "brokenness", I end up in a Taoist reality. And from there am exploring the manipulation of "Push". And to be honest with you Phil , things are really interesting. With the understanding that one does "not" use the manipulation of "Push" to feed the "brokenness". Which is where the tricky part comes in. Because, "brokenness" as a program demands that it be protected and allowed to have existence or you will die.

Also most all of the masters of the different exalted states would say that you have to fix the "brokenness", so to speak, before you can achieve these exalted states. This is with the exception of Raja Yoga which teaches you how to control the Kundalini and as a true master you become an incarnation of the "PUSH" . Broken or otherwise. Which is very tempting when it comes to my version of "brokenness" because I know how it is done.

Spiritual dissociation is an excellent tool for living around "brokenness" as long as you physically live in fairly safe reality that insulates you from the "Push" of "Life". Lets say as an example that you wrote a book that went viral and because of that thousands of people begin to make a pilgrimage to your door. Because you are not physically set up to safely handle that situation your ability to maintain spiritual dissociation in middle of all of that "Push" would become unattainable because of the obvious threat that that situation would be to your loved ones. Just as one example .

And I do use and can use spiritual dissociation to get around my brokenness and to explore my brokenness, at this point in time, because I live, at this point in time, in a fairly safe physical reality. So Phil, what you are suggesting as a possibility, I am actually doing and it is working quite nicely. Phil I have enjoyed making a post and I hope that what I posted was as helpful to you as it was to me. I learned a lot about myself and the worlds that I am exploring because of your question. It helped me to organize things. To me, "Happiness" is a good question. It throws things into "creative chew", a mind reality where chaos creates the possibility of new order, a new set pattern way of looking at things. You use it when you write also, we are alike in that way .

Love, tucker

A most wonderful post, Tucker! Thank you. I will get back to you about different parts of it, but I'm wondering if what you call "Push" is not precisely what kundalini, understood more widely than an energy going up the spine, is about. That seems to be how Gopi Krisha understood it, and how, from a Christian perspective, my friend Jim Arraj did as well.

"Is what you call push precisely what Kundalini is about?" Based on what I am studying/exploring at this point in time the answer to that question would be, "Yes!" The moving of the Kundalini up the spine in a controlled manner as a snake and/or a bird is an ancient yogi system for controlling and then using the Kundalini energy which is a natural energy that all living things with a somewhat of an advanced nervous system have as a part of their bio energy make up. This natural energy comes into play when certain areas of the Hypothalamus region of the brain are stimulated to create a physical high energy aggressive push. And there are other areas of the hypothalamus region of the brain that when stimulated create a flight response. The only thing that I could find on this as a scientific reference is: Experimental Brain Research, may 1969, volume 8, Issue 2, pp 113-129. If the truth where known this research is something that I encountered as a freshmen in college, where I watched a black and white film of this experiment that stuck with me for the rest of my life and this research study is what I am using as a foundation for my hypothesis on what part of the brain stimulates uncontrolled Kundalini risings. And the relationship to this area of the brain to the foundation personality programming of the subconscious mind. Yea! Phil, I have a reference and it isn't just a part of my imagination !

The Kundalini is the energy that results when a certain area or areas of the hypothalamus region of the brain are stimulated by a perceived threat or a perceived need for aggression. And that energy when awoken is the energy that results in or causes what I am calling the "Push" of "Life". In animals the Kundalini response, the extra energy needed for fight or flight, is instinctive. But in humans, that high energy response is tied into and controlled by the/our foundation personality programming that lies in the automated part of the brain/mind which is generally called the subconscious mind. If you can stop the thought that creates the automated response, you can then stop the automated response.

Now what the ancient yogis were able to do through certain meditation techniques was to keep this heightened energy state "ON" all of the time. They learned to handle being in the physical and mental state that is normally caused by extreme perceived threat. And when one is in that state without panic they are super human and very mentally awake. They became an incarnation so to speak of the energy that creates the "Push" of "Life". The problem is that if you panic while in the extreme state your nervous system shuts down and stops your heart. You experience the frightened to death experience . Now in a human programming sense if ones programming perceives a threat, real or imagined, the automated part of the brain floods the nervous system with Kundalini energy and if your programming gives you permission to feel "Power" causing you go into a state of controlled anger you are then having a controlled Kundalini rising. But, if that programming causes you to feel "powerless" and you go into a panic state you are then experiencing an uncontrolled Kundalini rising. The Kundalini house of cards falls a part and you are a basket case .

From there in my world the question becomes: "How can we control which regions of the hypothalamus that are being stimulated using our conscious mind?" (That sentence needs editing.) With just for fun, the focus being on using the conscious mind to stimulate the regions of the hypothalamus that create the feelings of happiness and contentment?

How do you control a Kundalini rising with your conscious mind? How do you prevent a kundalini rising with your conscious mind? And, how do you stimulate a happy contented mind chemistry state (not ecstasy or bliss, just a normal feeling of happiness and contentment, an all is well feeling) with your conscious mind?

Our emotional system is like a violin and with a some practice one can learn play it in interesting ways. But I admit that I am still a beginner at this and I do seem to be stuck on a few sour notes on a regular bases ,so to speak. But I am getting better at this not happening.

Love, tucker.

This post needs some editing relative to punctuation and arrangement of content. Arg!

Don't worry about the grammar and punctuation, Tucker. Fwiw, I think your writing is very clear.

Gopi Krishna thought that k process activated a part of the brain he called the Brahma-Randra. The link below, which is from a web site that publicizes his work, explains what this.

- http://www.icrcanada.org/resea...lution/brahmarandhra

Maybe this is the hypothalamus? I honestly don't know. But GK was convinced that once this part of the brain was stimulated by K awakening, it signaled a new situation in the nervous system, with this Brahma-Randhra requiring extraordinary nourishment from the nervous system and, especially, one's sexual energy, or it would be unbalanced. Many who've had K awakening (self included) can empathize with the experience he's describing, here, but, of course, that's all difficult to substantiate scientifically.

Re. controlling which regions of the hypothalamus (or part of brain) that are being stimulated, I think the answer has to do with right-thinking. A Taoist master once told me that if we could think about things properly, we would be in perfect health. That, of course, is the problem, as our thinking is haywire, largely because of inner brokenness and a crazy culture. But I'm sure he is correct, only to straighten out one's thinking requires proper care for body, psyche, etc.

My new book is not so focused on offering a scientific accounting for kundalini process as a philosophical and theological perspective. When you said "push," it resonated with my approach -- that k is an inner "push" to embody higher consciousness, understood in various ways that I hope to nuance. Surely there's an anatomical and physiological component to all of this, but I have little hope of articulating that aspect.

Incidentally, I am also more drawn to Taoist approaches and explanations regarding k phenomena, and think they have it right about recycling this energy instead of just bringing it to the top of the head. Meditative approaches like tai chi and qi gong from their tradition seems very helpful in cases where k is stuck in the brain.

Thanks for your sharing, Tucker. Fascinating!