quote:

One question I've asked all along is why God would allow me to be so seduced given my deepest prayer over these past two years has been to be a channel for his love and healing. I struggle with the church's teachings on sexuality, can't believe that Jesus didn't reveal more to his apostles privately, can't believe my experiences of oneness over this period isn't filled with the creative expression of God the Creator, have witnessed spiritual growth in friends and family, have generally been driven by a positive charge of faith in Christ and hope for life while this experience has been going on. The warnings I've had here feel negative and fear inducing, but I must take them seriously. Why would I feel such intimacy with Christ taking communion while having these experiences ongoing? It's a bizarre whackadoo situation but you must believe I've asked Christ guidance through it all. What more can I do?

Hi Stephen,

I've been following this thread with interest, and I for one don't think you've over shared...even if you didn't get the reaction you expected. We are all willing participants on this board and we can all choose what we read and what we don't, what we take to heart and what we ignore.

From one who has been equally frustrated by Pop pop at his apparent excommunication of my faith journey, I understand your disgust but having come a distance with him now I know for certain that his intention is always good and he speaks with a conviction that would seem irresponsible of him, even sinful, not to share with us...even if we can't hear all that he says.

I've wanted to reply a number of times on this topic, but time has been a little short (story of my life ), but this last comment/question is very dear to my heart and so I feel I must share.

I was raised nominally Christian in the Methodist church - I was sent to Sunday School, my parents stayed home. At around 16 I had a crisis of faith and determined to find out for myself who/what God was and what that meant for my life. Coincidentally this was also the year I was introduced to drugs and alcohol…while alcohol found a place in my life, it never equalled the importance that drugs came to play for the very reason that I was able to integrate my drug experiences with my spiritual quest.

Initially this came to play out in Rastafarianism, as I found the idea that early Christianity had been corrupted and lost in the west compelling. I connected with God in prayer and meditation while smoking marijuana and read my bible multiple times daily. Through further reading and study I discovered ideas about Aliens seeding the earth and Alien visitations. I began wondering whether perhaps Ezekiel’s Wheel, the burning bush, and other Old Testament appearances weren’t perhaps more signs of Ancient Alien Encounters. I then simultaneously discovered LSD and Hinduism and eventually Rastafarianism became too narrow to hold my expanding spiritual consciousness.

I was committed to God, trying to lead a moral life, preaching (believe it or not) at house parties and rave clubs…completely convinced that I was experiencing the deep love of God and that He had called me to be a prophet/messenger.

My spiritual experiences lead me to believe I had had previous lives. I began to feel that they included Moses, John of Patmos and that currently I was the incarnation of the Arch Angel Michael. I was having weird and wonderful experiences of telepathy and synchronicity (e.g. if I was in need of Marijuana, I could follow an internal sense and find people smoking, in random parking lots or parks). But more than anything I believed that I was in communion with God and that He approved of the path I was on.

Later I began to think of Jesus as the leader of a coven, some sort of Supreme Sorcerer (he and his disciples together make 13). My whole life seemed to indicate great spiritual growth and importance. I even began thinking that perhaps all my friends and family where actually my own soul, shattered into a multiplicity of people, all seeking re-union. I began believing that the woman around me were engaged in some sort of soul sex relationship with me and I would try to reach out to them spiritually through meditation and energy manipulation.

Of course in the end this process lead to a request to surrender. Surrender my life and soul to the experiences I was having. But right at the precipice of that surrender I refused and the whole thing became very dark and evil. Thankfully Jesus pulled me out…though the after effects lasted years. I often asked God how He could allow me to be so deceived, when I was seeking Him so whole-heartedly…the experience left me deeply wounded and unable to trust my own intuitions.

But God was not done with me yet. As a Christian I’ve been on an equally interesting journey, one that at times has almost lead me back into a spiritual pluralism that would demote the divinity and importance of Jesus, and at other times it has bordered on a fundamentalism that would condemn most of the world to hell (even most other Christians). I don’t know why God allows this.

For me, my current journey into the Catholic Church explains some of it. The Catholic Church is unique in her ability to throw wide the net of salvation and truth, while keeping the fundamentals clearly visible at all times. Whenever my life has been out of step with the deepest truths of the Catholic Church (even her teachings on what matters constitute sin) I have been vulnerable to deception. Even as a Christian I was deceived when I tried to adopt positions or beliefs that were contrary to the teachings of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. As a cradle protestant this is and has been a hard journey as I have so much anti-catholic baggage to unpack, but it has also proved to be one of the most comforting parts of my journey. For the first time in over 10 years I actually feel safe again within the walls of the Church. I see her teachings as safety nets, not intended to keep me bound to rigid and stifling orthodoxy, but rather she is the ever watchful mother providing ample place for me to play and explore but who warns me away from the flame, lest I get burnt.

Now, I’m not trying to tell you that your experiences are the same as mine, or that you must become Catholic (though I heartily recommend everyone explore the possibility). But I write mainly to share how I was deeply committed to my journey and relationship with God and yet came up short on a number of occasions. My experiences, as true and deep as they seemed at times, were not enough to secure their validity. In the end, I needed to appeal to an authority, outside my personal experiences, to safeguard my soul from ruin – this was true even as a Christian. I hope some of this helped, if not, feel free to disregard.

Much Love in the Lord Jesus,
Jacques

quote:

Enough now of physics. i quit this scientific world a long time ago

Maybe you can say more about what's behind this "quitting" at some time. My first career was as a field biologist (M.S., with all the course work for Ph.D. and I enjoyed the sciences very much, even though most of my profs were secular modernists with little use for religion). Sounds like something turned you off big-time.

I take your point about all these hypothetical universes in relation to the universe we live in. I've read some of this through the years, sometimes put forth by prominent scientists. In the end, however, it all seems much too ephemeral, and mostly irrelevant to the life I know I really am living in this universe.

quote:

The Catholic Church is unique in her ability to throw wide the net of salvation and truth, while keeping the fundamentals clearly visible at all times. Whenever my life has been out of step with the deepest truths of the Catholic Church (even her teachings on what matters constitute sin) I have been vulnerable to deception.

Jacques, thanks for sharing of your journey, and what you've learned from it. While dogmatism is certainly an extreme to avoid, I think your story goes to show the positive aspects of doctrine and how it can help one to keep one's bearings. Years ago a Catholic writer named Frank Sheed wrote a book, Theology and Sanity. Good stuff! It definitely won't resonate with postmodern Christians as it's based on a Thomistic anthropology, but he was making some good connections between theology, psychology and mental health. He main point was that good theology, more than anything else, helps one to be in touch with reality -- physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual. Bad theology, whether explicitly or implicitly embraced, brings forth the fruit of distortions of all kinds. Reality is what it is, and we can't manipulate it into something that is not by imposing our own deluded interpretations onto it.

This is a problem I'm finding increasingly as the West goes postmodern. Postmoderners tend to believe that reality is mostly subjective -- that there is no such thing as absolute truth or objective truth, only "my truth" and "your truth." Obviously, the consequence is to make of the self something of a god, deciding what is true and untrue, real and unreal.

A young man told me the other day that if I believed something to be true, then it was true, for me, even in the realm of physical reality. I asked him politely to please continue driving on what he perceived to be the right side of the road (U.S. laws), but that if wanted to test to see if there was objective reality, he could try going up a one-way street in a city and see how that goes.

Another once told me that the only truth was that there was no truth, to which I replied that this principle must also be applied to the statement he had just made.

(Edit: I see that Theology and Sanity is now available on Amazon.com, even in Kindle.)

A wonderful post, Jacques! Delightful.

Imo… PERFECTO!

Spiritual growth is truly a ‘learn by doing’ phenomenon. How faithful our Lord is, who has covenanted Himself with us, continually seeking us and prodding us lest we be lost. He is constant even when we are not.

You haven’t chosen Me, I have chosen you,

He who has begun this work in you will not fail to bring it to completion.

Best wishes for a great and Happy New Year.

quote:

Originally posted by samson:
Ok, Shasha. Sorry if I've stirred up unpleasant memories.

I guess my sharing here may have crossed that private/public barrier. Poets tend to let it all hang out. I'm sorry for this. Sorry if I've upset anyone...

No apologies needed, Stephen. I agree with Phil that it's commendable that you'd ask for feedback or even share such personal material about yourself. But you didn't cross any boundaries at SP or with me. I chose to share what I did cuz I thought it might be helpful. Whatever memories your story stirred in me is my responsibility. So no sorries needed.

Besides, I'm a psychoanalytic therapist! I'm into unpleasant memories...they're not my enemy. I see great value in integrating them, of greeting them with acceptance, lavishing forgiveness.

And I hear you about being wrung out by this discussion. WHOAH!
In the name of Love, Lord Jesus, protect us from deception...I can say that without fear (bombs ) . I can pray that with tenderness for His sheep.

Jacques,

I really enjoyed your frank sharing. At the opening post, Stephen asked that he be met with gentleness, and you did that beautifully. Thank you.

Ok guys I'm going to back away from shalomplace for the time being. You're a very groovy bunch for sure. I wish I could have participated with a little less self focus, but so be it.

I'll take away two things at least from this discussion - don't be too quick to interpret experience and be careful of delusion.

(Having said that, this has been going on for two years now and I still haven't committed myself to any interpretation, while living a happy, normal, satisfying life. Indeed the whole thing has been a rich source of poetic expression.)

I may report back further down the line if things develop.

In the meantime, take care and Christ's blessings,

Stephen

I'm sorry that you feel it would be better to leave than to continue interacting on other issues. I've always enjoyed your posts and responses and value your input Stephen.

Disagreement need not lead to disengagement, I hope you will reconsider.

God's love and grace to you.

Good point, Jacques. I was going to write the very same message.

- - -

Stephen, "no harm and no foul," as the old saying goes. You introduced a most interesting topic (about which you have much personal investment) but you also invited feedback on a public forum . . . and you received some. This tells me that you have deep respect for the little core group that hangs out here, even though you obviously disagree with some of the feedback. I'm glad some of it was helpful to you; what wasn't, just keep on the "back burner," or even ignore.

Come again soon. Your contributions here are much appreciated.

Phil, Jacques, everyone,

Thank you!

It's not really a matter of disagreement leading to disengagement, more the necessity to find some space to process things, clear the heid, as we say.

I probably invested too much emotionally in the discussion. Pop and Shash are strong characters with strong beliefs and a lot of emotion was stirred in me. It's not easy being challenged with the idea that you might be on a dangerous path or may even be delusional. I had to dig deep to reaffirm my position and faith and I've done so. My confidence is in the Lord, despite the apparent deviation from normative experience. I also come from a long line of reformers and non conformists. It's in my blood. We are Scots after all, so my safety net can't be Catholic teaching but community, those I love and serve, with Christ as head, which is essentially what the church is anyway.

I have deep respect for the SP community, as you say, Phil, and am part of it, but if I dip out of the headlights for the time being, it's only for personal reflection, not because of disagreement. You'll probably remember me doing this before, then showing up again later. C'est moi.

Again, much love and respect to all. As the man says, it ain't over till it's over, and I hear no fat ladies .

Stephen

quote:

After our last ding dong on the twin flame issue, I had a really good think and came to the conclusion that what I was experiencing wasn't about sex or a relationship with a spirit lover, it was about the unblocking of kundalini in my head, working to give me relief from what is quite a pressure. Once I came to that realisation, which I really always knew to be the case but got momentarily sidetracked into the twin flame thing (how you latched on to it!), I understood that the only relationship I'd ever wished to pursue was with Jesus. The whole sex side of the experience slowly dwindled away. But there remains that outside energy working carefully with me through the often extreme head pressure. Twin flames are no longer an issue.

Phil asked me to paste this quote from the Institution of Marriage topic and explain a little bit more about the transformation.

A week or so after the above exchanges, I had a dream where I was talking with the female in question. I told her I wanted to follow Christ, indeed had never wavered from that during our trysts. She told me that wasn't her path. There seemed to be a lot of emotion exchanged which was rather confusing but, really, that was that. Quite simple. The separation was effected without any real struggle. There has been no conscious contact, no sexual contact since, although once or twice I felt I was being helped by her in some way.

The whole thing has died down and I continue as Christ's disciple. There are evidently ties here with something, someone, but my ties with Christ are so much stronger, unbreakable. I am his, without question, and he isn't letting me go.

My enquiry here came at a time when the original contact, which really was about releasing blockages in the head, had developed into a complicated relationship, to the point where I was desperate to know what was going on. The twin flame idea came to me the weekend in December when the world was going to end. Energies were high. There was a lot of uncertainty. My bringing it here was a way of filtering and processing the idea. It was also a way of dealing with it in the light of a vision I had on retereat 3 or 4 years ago, where I was told I was going to meet and go through things with a female on the way to something more ecstatic. The whole thing was unavoidable.

I still don't know what it was or who it was. I hold it openly now. I am pretty sure it was essentially an energetic link designed to work through blockages in my head, which at times were extreme. Simply one of those occult kundalini issues that's pretty hard to fathom. It developed into something more complex.

Now, however, I commit my head and its pressures solely to Christ and the contemplative graces he continues to give me.

As for the ET thing. Let me give you a flavour of that. There was a lot of contact in and out of dreams, but one happened in a dream where I was taken to an underwater compound to meet with aliens. The whole texture of this dream was different. I could see and feel things physically. At one point I asked if this was just a dream or was it really happening, and I was told it was really happening. The contact was beyond words and description. Very bizarre. Very baffling. I've read a bit about alien abduction during kundalini awakening. It's quite common, but no one, including abductees, psychotherapists, new agers, or religious types has given a satisfactory explanation. It generally passes, and seems to have passed with me for the time being. But I remain baffled.

And I remain baffled by much of what has gone on. I put it down to kundalini weirdness and leave it at that. Still, lots of other stuff has arisen since then, including guardian angel contact, healing contact, much much more, which I don't want to explore here at the moment.

Perhaps I should say that the discussion did help. I was able to refocus on Christ and get a little clarity about the nature of relationship. It's difficult, when you're faced with such strange activity, to be confronted and challenged by pop-pop's blue meme bombs and Shasha's wealth of experience and psychoanalytic cunning (sorry Shasha, probably the wrong word). Even Jacques' gentle persuasion can be challenging. All our experiences and perspectives differ, and I always feel the need to be true to my own.

I have a strong sense that this is going somewhere and none of my experiences are in vain. My k journey from that first shot of fire up the spine, through the subsequent energetic upheavals and now this endgame in the head, has always been dramatic and complicated, which of course means that it's all the more essential to place it in God's hands, Christ's hands and surrender surrender, always surrender.

I've always been an explorer, a metaphysical risk taker, but I am a disciple and little lamb too.
Thanks everyone for putting up with me.

One more thing -

The experience raises questions about the nature of kundalini and sex. It seems that when k moves through certain areas of the bio-energetic system, it opens the body and heightens sexual desire.

I was celibate for years, sometimes struggling, other times absolutely graced. Then k seemed to open me out to the point where it was impossible to deal with the sexual energy coursing through me. No relationship was on the cards and I certainly wasn't going to go down a promiscuous route. At any rate, it's a different kind of sexuality, not at all about orgasmic release, but a sense that the whole body is open to sexual energy, composed of sexual energy, and linked in some ecstatic way to all of creation.

The opening of sexual centres and the subsequent release of sexual energy throughout the body may have attracted this contact to me in order to open remaining blockages to the energy. Through the course of the process I learned to deal with desire in new and, I think, healthier ways.

Thanks so much for the update, Stephen. Very interesting, and a good reminder of the importance of being open to Christ above all desires to attach to enticing inner experiences, however real they might seem. I'm glad to hear that our little online community was helpful in some manner -- another reminder to us all of the way the Spirit works through Christian community.

I've had lots of bizarre dreams through the years, and they still show up from time to time. Sometimes I have a sense of what's going on, but others I chalk up to what you called "kundalini stuff."

Picking up the battle axe once more, let me say all experience is valuable, to be learned from, and that one can enter or be led into an experience by the Holy Spirit which may not fit into an orthodox mould, but which is necessary, fruitful, and spiritually enriching.

God after all is infinite and his ways are mysterious. If he wanted us in narrow experiential boxes, he wouldn't have given us free will or placed us in a wondrous universal playground. Granted there are dangers in the playground, but God is a watchful mother, and a child won't develop unless it plays with abandon.