OK, everyone lighten up.

Pop: I'm not seeing Stephen's sharing and some of his more adventurous hypotheses as endangering his spiritual journey. He's always been clear about where his deepest faith convictions lie, and that hasn't changed.

Stephen: I'm not seeing that Pop is intending to judge and damn you as you seem to be perceiving. You ought to know by now that Pop is Pop, and means very well with his feedback, even when it seems to be questioning your faith. Why not accept what's helpful and disregard the rest, or tell him it doesn't fit. Maybe he can learn from you about that?

Bliss's point is a good one: technically, there can be only one universe, as the prefix, "uni" means one -- one cosmos, one reality, ableit with many dimensions (length, width, depth, time, etc.). Science is ultimately constrained by empirical data, however, so hypotheses about dimensions beyond the measurable belong more to metaphysics, which is a philosophical discipline. That doesn't mean metaphysical experiences aren't real, only we can't expect science to corroborate them.

It sounds like this all just needs more time to play out, Stephen. You're in touch with an interesting and compelling experience, but the naming of it is another matter. I wonder if you can continue to allow the experience to unfold without attaching too strongly to a particular interpretation, and keeping it ever before God, of course, as I know you have been doing. One danger is that if you really are being drawn to a particular woman through telepathic or other means (Anima dynamics -- still my best guess), and you actually meet her (or someone you believe to be her) one day, you might discover that she knows nothing about what's gone on with you, that it hasn't been mutual, and that you're relating to her more out of this filter of prior subjective experience than seeing the uniquess of who she really is. How to allow the experience without becoming too attached to it or a particular interpretation of it and what it means is tricky, I know, but that's what I'd suggest if you were one of my spiritual directees (well, I guess I just did so anyway ).

quote:

It sounds like this all just needs more time to play out, Stephen. You're in touch with an interesting and compelling experience, but the naming of it is another matter. I wonder if you can continue to allow the experience to unfold without attaching too strongly to a particular interpretation, and keeping it ever before God, of course, as I know you have been doing.

Those seem like wise words, Phil, and are essentially where I am in this.

I may have overreacted to pop. I apologise. It felt an awful lot like I was being damned. He's just so bloomin opinionated .

As for the rest, I won't defend myself or justify my experiences too much. They are simply experiences. All I'll say is I don't think I'm as undifferentiated as you think, Shasha. Nor am I seduced by sexual bliss or promises of ecstasy. I'm quite a pragmatic fellow. As for conventional morality and idealised disincarnate sexual partners .

Wasn't the destructive path you were on down to involvement with the goddess, or was the twin flame thing something else?

I think this type of subject is prone to all sorts of overreaction. I was probably unwise to raise it here. So I'll bow out.

Here we are, from Wikipedia (so it must be true, LOL):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin

That page mentions one study of 300 pregnancies, in which there were 21 instances of twins, of which only 3 pairs survived to term. So vanishing twin syndrome is relatively common -- much more common than twins who survive, in fact. (BTW opposite-sex twins cannot possibly be monozygotic; they would have to be dizygotic.)

The above I would put forward as facts. As for my interpretation, it is as follows.

When repressed material emerges into consciousness, it has to be organized in order for the symbol-manipulating part of the mind to make sense of it. However, when there are leaky defense mechanisms, the material only partially emerges. In this situation, the mind cannot possibly make sense of it. This is what accounts for these odd experiences, which seem both real and unreal at the same time.

And here is Freud's interpretation, from Mourning and Melancholia, p. 244:

“Reality-testing has shown that the loved object no longer exists, and it proceeds to demand that all libido shall be withdrawn from its attachments to that object. This demand arouses understandable opposition—it is a matter of general observation that people never willingly abandon a libidinal position, not even, indeed, when a substitute is already beckoning to them. This opposition can be so intense that a turning away from reality takes place and a clinging to the object through the medium of a hallucinatory wishful psychosis.”

Ok I'm back because you're all just so compelling .

Derek,

I'll continue to bear this in mind. The twin thing interest me, but why would there be a sexual element?

Shasha,

You paint a vivid picture. I just don't see myself in it beyond the superficial details. And in actual fact the experience seems to be strengthening me against the original psychic attacks. The two would appear to be in conflict, the lover resisting the healer, as it were. In actual fact, I'm not caught up in a massive twin flame delusion, nor swept away by billowing waves of ecstasy. I'm simply having a bit of freaky nooky which seems to be activating a slow, gentle, rather pleasant awakening experience.

I've been trying to find your original testimony on these boards, not the one with the Guru but the one where you encountered the goddess. I remember quite a bit of it but can't recall you mentioning a twin flame delusion.

Have you mentioned it before? I can't remember.

As for my attempts to interpret these strange phenomena, when a piece fits into the puzzle of your life, you tend to see a finished picture. I'm a big bear of a man (stature wise), a timid mouse inside, I don't give myself over to anything swiftly unless I've tested the waters.

Libidinal cathexis is interpreted as sexual once it's been filtered through the post-pubertal mind, even though it wasn't sexual at the time.

Survivors of early losses make up the world's spiritual seekers. They are, literally, seeking something.

quote:

Originally posted by Derek:

Survivors of early losses make up the world's spiritual seekers. They are, literally, seeking something.

I think you are right about this, Derek. The longing for reunion is very deep and may be a powerful unconscious factor in how one's spirituality is pursued, and all of one's goal-directed behaviors in fact.

We also seek spiritually because our human spiritual consciousness is naturally oriented toward transcendence -- to know what can be known, love and be loved as fully as possible, to delight in goodness and beauty, etc.

"You have made us for Thyself, O Lord, and our hearts will not rest until they rest in Thee." (Augustine)

I rather resist the notion that spirituality is a compensation for woundings in early childhood. That's too reductionistic, imo.

quote:

Originally posted by samson:
..
Have you mentioned it before? I can't remember.

No. It's always felt too personal and private.

Like you Stephen, there's the testimony I have shared and the parts I haven't. There's the book you have written and the one you haven't. Understandable.

quote:

Originally posted by samson:
... And in actual fact the experience seems to be strengthening me against the original psychic attacks. The two would appear to be in conflict, the lover resisting the healer, as it were. ..

One would think so...BUT...another way to look at it: it's just another form, another avenue, of bondage.

At the same time, I hear you that you're done with warnings, you're not swept away. I just had to share that bit of my reaction, for what it's worth. Peace to you.

Ok, Shasha. Sorry if I've stirred up unpleasant memories.

I guess my sharing here may have crossed that private/public barrier. Poets tend to let it all hang out. I'm sorry for this. Sorry if I've upset anyone.

One question I've asked all along is why God would allow me to be so seduced given my deepest prayer over these past two years has been to be a channel for his love and healing. I struggle with the church's teachings on sexuality, can't believe that Jesus didn't reveal more to his apostles privately, can't believe my experiences of oneness over this period isn't filled with the creative expression of God the Creator, have witnessed spiritual growth in friends and family, have generally been driven by a positive charge of faith in Christ and hope for life while this experience has been going on. The warnings I've had here feel negative and fear inducing, but I must take them seriously. Why would I feel such intimacy with Christ taking communion while having these experiences ongoing? It's a bizarre whackadoo situation but you must believe I've asked Christ guidance through it all. What more can I do?

Stephen I didn't see your last reply to
me when i wrote my last post commenting on
shamonic marriage. Please disregard it.

Stephen, I don't think I've dumped a fear bomb on you, as I don't sense any grave danger for you. I've just tried to surface alternative explanations than Twin Flame and have encouraged you to be slow to bring closure to your explanation. As it doesn't seem there are any obvious sin-boundaries at stake here, the greatest danger seems to be one of just getting overly caught up in a delusion of some kind (Shasha's main point, too, it seems.).

God gives us plenty of slack to get caught up in stuff, learn from our mistakes, then move on. Most people don't venture to elicit feedback, as you have done, and so you are to be commended -- and to keep/disregard whatever you'd like as well, of course. Who knows where this will all go? I don't think it's finished playing out, yet.

Indeed you haven't, Phil. Your response has been thoughtful and rational. Some of the others...a tad dramatic, perhaps? But then maybe I'm guilty of that too.

I don't mind telling you, I'm a bit wrung out. Maybe I won't be so quick to share next time.

You're entirely right, though. This has a way to go and God is good .

Ok, Mary Sue. Thanks.

Thanks for all the sharings on this topic
everyone.

And thank you Phil for the wise counsel.
It certainly applies for me also.