Guys I am excited about this! This is the first time that I have tried to put all of this in one place. Please feel free to wade in with questions and comments at anytime. John acaveyogi

Physical Immortality, The Ancient's Ways

The most ancient way of doing this was the "Tree of Life" method. "Become the Tree." That sounds simple doesn't it! Then we have the "Unicorn" method, "Become the Unicorn.", the Sat Mat yoga method is a version of the ancient Unicorn method (although they don't know it). The "Buddha" method, "Become the Buddha.", Buddha's "bun" on the top center of his head must be included for this one. Then we have the ancient South American "Staff God" method, "Become the Staff God.", this one requires beer if you can believe that . The "Snake Kundalini" method, "Become the "Golden Cobra". This method was the original kundalini yoga method and these people were the ones that St. Patric ran out of Ireland.

The next group of methods are things that you do things with. The " Golden Staff of Life" method. The "Golden Wreath of Life" method, you see alot of pictures of the Fae types and Christian Saints wearing them. The "Kabala" method. The "Lotus/Rose Flower" Method. And the "Om" sound method.

Last but not least we have the "Gadget" method. I call them "Life Energy Harnesses". They come in alot of variations and versions.

To be continued acaveyogi

Well, John, you're up and going, here. I'll start things off with the most obvious question, which is whether by "physical immortality" you're speaking of a state after death, or the continuance of life in this body without ever dying? As you know from a previous thread, I'm skeptical about the latter.

I'll be listening in to see how it goes.

quote:

Well, John, you're up and going, here. I'll start things off with the most obvious question, which is whether by "physical immortality" you're speaking of a state after death, or the continuance of life in this body without ever dying? As you know from a previous thread, I'm skeptical about the latter.

"Physical Immortality" is a hook to catch interest. There is no true "Immortallity" with out Jesus the "Son of God". Phil, you and I have two different approaches to this, but at the sametime, I am not saying that you are wrong. This is not a matter of we agree to disagree, things are not real until they are real. Phil you have two thousand years of history with only a few sideways things that can't be explained. But at the sametime the sun does not revolve around the earth and the earth is not flat. But then again the North Star is always where it is suppose to be . Earth might be the center of things, one always wonders about this. And there is this: The Catholic Church "is" the "Rock" that Jesus built His Church on! It is you know. There would actually be "no" Christianity without it. There wouldn't you know.

Back on subject: Physical Immortality. Only through Jesus can one achieve true "Physical Immorality" whatever that means. So actually and I thank you Phil, for bringing this up, what we are exploring here in this topic is actually, "Extended Life" spans. Only the rich are going to have it available to them. I am not happy about this. It should be available to all of mankind. Actually we are not playing in religion here, we are playing in medical science relative to the human mind and gadgets. Phil I thank you for letting me play. Love, john

quote:

I'll be listening in to see how it goes.

John, I don't really follow your point in the first paragraph above, but what you write about "extended lifespan" in the second makes sense. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.
Shalom. Phil

�what we are exploring here in this topic is actually, "Extended Life" spans. Only the rich are going to have it available to them. I am not happy about this. It should be available to all of mankind.

Are we talking cryogenics? Organ replacement? That sort of thing? I think if our economic system was that of the Soviet Union then what you said would be a certainty: only the few at the top of the power structure would have access to the best of medicine. But the nice thing about our capitalistic system is that there is a profit motive. Exceptions aside, there isn�t much of motivation to restrict medical care only to the rich. Much more money can be made when procedures and drugs and made more mainstream. And thus whatever is dreamed up in the Mayo Clinic eventually makes its way to the family doctor and local hospital. Democracy in action (unless Hillary ever gets her way with socialized medicine).

And whether talking medicine or electronics, there is a phenomenon known as "early adopters". These are the people who love having the latest and the greatest and can afford it. The practical affect is that they fund basic research and help get products off the ground by creating an initial market for them until that market matures, reaches some type of "critical mass", and the economies of scale kick in and thus someday we may go to Wal-Mart for eye replacements (I�m sure they�ll come in colors).

All this and more are possible in a free market capitalist society. The science fiction doom and gloom scenario of a few core rich or powerful controlling life and death itself is much more likely in command economies which is already structured to produce such horrors.

Acaveyoga, Phil, and anyone else,

Are you familiar with Dr. Alexis Carrel's laboratory experiment in 1912, in which he kept part of a chicken heart alive for 35 years by simply providing it with protein, and with correct drainage of waste materials.

He concluded that life can continue indefinately if correctly fed and it's poisons wastes are properly elimated. It is said that he "proved" to the world that living flesh can be deathless.

I tried to find the whole story of his experiment on the web, but didn't find it as yet.

Dr. Carrel was a scientist at the Rockefeller Institute in N.Y. He received a Nobel Prize for this cell biology work.

Katy

Aging and Cell Death

A synopsis of the book from here says:

quote:

Cellular Aging and Cell Death provides a thorough understanding of the mechanisms responsible for cellular aging, covering the recent research on programmed cell death and senescence, and describing their role in the control of cell proliferation and the aging process. This one-of-a-kind book is the first to combine the two hottest research areas of cell biology into one comprehensive text.

Leading experts contribute to give readers an authoritative overview of the distinct fields of cellular aging and programmed cell death, as well as to demonstrate how both fields are critical to understanding the aging process. They address the large and growing interest in apoptosis, especially with regard to the molecular signals that induce and regulate programmed cell death, and the role of apoptosis in a variety of age-associated diseases and disabilities. Throughout the book, a strong emphasis is placed on the interrelationship of the molecular, cellular, and physiological aspects of senescence.

Individual chapters discuss such topics as the role and regulation of apoptosis in development, the potential impact of cell death on such postmitotic tissues as nerve and muscle, and suggest that programmed cell death plays an important role in both pathological and nonpathological aspects of aging, including neurodegenerative diseases.

One important chapter focuses on the most recent research involving the study of telomeres, whose reduction in length with age and cell division may underlie cellular senescence. The subject of neuronal cell death is also put into the perspective of aging.

Cellular Aging and Cell Death bridges the rapidly growing fields of cellular aging and programmed cell death. This thorough, yet concise book will be of particular interest to graduate students and researchers within the fields of cell and developmental biology, neurobiology, immunology, and physiology. Physicians and medical students involved in the fields of gerontology and pathology will also find this an informative reference.

I want to say that I neither believe, nor disbelieve in immortality of the physical body. I just find it a fascinating topic.

O.K. now, what about the scripture which says: "He quickens our mortal body", and also, "He who believes in Me shall not die.."?

Has anyone read Agnes Sanford's books, specifically, "The Healing Touch of God"? She believes in the possibility of attaining our "Resurrection" bodies, even in this life.. without dying.

Acaveyogi, I really don't know anything about the different kinds of yoga's you are talking about. Nor the Ancient ways. I have only studied hatha yoga. I come mostly from a Christian perspective (tho Phil may disagree) with a little new age thrown in. :-)

Katy

Hi Brad ! I do hear what you are saying. I understand what you are saying. I took some econ classes at the U that I graduaded from with a degree in botany. In a Capitalistic society the object is to make money. In a pure "supply and demand" situation, price is based on the amout of "money" available versus the amount of "product" available. More money available with less product available, the price goes up. The cost of producing the product doesn't go up. Production stays the same, but your profit margin gets real exciting quick ! You have less overhead and you are making more money, if there is less product, and that product is needed or wanted. Also in a pure "Capitalistic Environment" with no restrictions, one Corporation ends up owning everthing. "Survival of the Fittest" buys (or puts) everybody else out of business.

Anyhow Brad, we are lucky that we live in a world where everybody feels compassion for everybody else and that money and profit is not involved, when it comes to medical care and the lives of those around us. Love, john

Hi Katy ! There is nobody in this world today that knows as much about this stuff, that will say anything, than me. And this is my last message board, and acaveyogi gives Phil a major "Hug" thank you for allowing me to be here.

Katy you feel that something about this "Physical Immortality/Extended Life Span" stuff is possible. I am going to attempt to share with you and interested others everything I know about this subject. There is nothing in this for me. It is a free gift to interested others to investigate and none of it will be copyrighted. I just would like to have this knowledge/information out there for interested others to have a look at it.

Katy, everybody, input and comments are welcome. We all have something to contribute, when guided to contribute. All is well. Love, John

Acaveyogi, hello. I don't believe in physical immortality; I believe that certain yogis can suspend their heartbeat and whatnot and that as the Kundalini travels through the nadis, there are various siddhis and capacities which flower. here's a bit of an abstract from a medline article on various physiological feats in advanced meditators:

"This finding seems particularly important because there is clear evidence that, whereas meditation is a state of parasympathetic dominance, in advanced meditators there is also enhanced control over sympathetic activity. Either sympathetic or parasympathetic activation then becomes possible. A hypometabolic state of parasympathetic arousal, however, remains the doorway as well as the fundamental context for these potential changes. In other words, sympathetic control in the presence of parasympathetic dominance is the fundamental principle underlying what has been reported in advanced practitioners as the voluntary control of internal states.

This is corroborated by studies of individual practitioners who have been meditating for decades and who have gained phenomenal control over normally involuntary bodily processes. Tibetan monks studied in their natural environment in a Himalayan monastery practicing G Tum-mo yoga have been shown to first enter any one of several states of quiet meditation, after which they are able to generate such body heat that they can dry wet sheets on their back in freezing weather (1).

It is interesting to contrast this with Indian yogis studied under laboratory conditions of simulated pit burial. One yogi went into a state of deep bodily rest and lowered metabolism and was able to remain in an airtight box with no ill effects and no sign of tachycardia or hyperpnea for 10 h. In a different study done in a more naturalistic setting on a different adept, Yogi Satyamurti (70 yr of age) remained confined in a small underground pit, sealed from the top, for 8 days. He was physically restricted by recording wires, during which time electrocardiogram (ECG) results showed his heart rate to be below the measurable sensitivity of the recording instruments (see Fig. 1)."

-Extended life span, yes...Those Tibetan exercises allegedly extend ones life through the movement of prana. Are these the esoteric practices which you refer to? Could you finally state in clear words what exactly you are suggesting?

Practically, what does this mean?

"The most ancient way of doing this was the "Tree of Life" method. "Become the Tree." That sounds simple doesn't it! Then we have the "Unicorn" method, "Become the Unicorn.", the Sat Mat yoga method is a version of the ancient Unicorn method (although they don't know it). The "Buddha" method, "Become the Buddha.", Buddha's "bun" on the top center of his head must be included for this one. Then we have the ancient South American "Staff God" method, "Become the Staff God.", this one requires beer if you can believe that . The "Snake Kundalini" method, "Become the "Golden Cobra". This method was the original kundalini yoga method and these people were the ones that St. Patric ran out of Ireland."

Thanks.

Yours,

Asher

Here's a link to the Tibetan exercises which I refered to above:

http://www.lifeevents.org/5-ti...nation-exercises.htm

Acaveyogi, are these practices familar? Or are you talking about kriya practices? You list a couple, some of which I'm not familar with.

Basically, my feeling is that certain things that may be possible for a yogi are not possible for other human beings exposed to all sorts of pollution...etc.

Asher

Topic Stuff

All the methods that I presented above I can do simultaneously, I have been at this meditation stuff for along time. The Life Energy Harness stuff I have been playing with for over twelve years now and have worn a life energy harness of one version or another continuously for twelve years now.

What we are going to attempt do here is lay down the foundation science of the human potential. Science has already come to the conclusion that we as human beings shouldn't die from physical deterioration, animals yes, but not us. The question is why do we?

And we as mankind have a history of individuals being able to do unexplained "Things" that are and always have been a mystery. Folks talk about the potential of mankind in the 23-24 century what we are going to investigate here in this topic is "now", with those that are interested.

Ok Your mind has abilities relative to "Creation" that you don't know about, in an understanding way, and there is a part of you that actually exists, that is at this time beyond your comprehension. My and your challenge is to explain all of how this works, to you. So that you can have a look at it and if inclined, test it. My challenge is to explain this stuff to you in a simple way so that you can easily test it to see if it is real.

More tomarrow, Love, John

Hi Asher welcome! If it only works for a yogi, then my lifes work is down the tube and I am wasting everybodies time. Love, John "a yogi"

Keep going, John. There's obviously bound to be skepticism about this topic, given the apparent scarcity of people living much beyond 100 years of age.

Let me throw in a "teaser" of sorts, here, which is that people with MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder), it has sometimes been observed that they have different allergies with the different personalities -- this with the same genome, grant you! Obviously, one's state of consciousness has an effect on how the DNA in the cells vibrates, and, one could surmise, on how this effects the immune system and other aspects of our physiology.

Traditional Judeo-Christian teaching has it that the first humans in possession of a spiritual soul ("Adam and Eve") were to be immortal, presumably because the immortality of the spiritual soul conferred immortal life to all dimensions of their being. And so when John notes, Science has already come to the conclusion that we as human beings shouldn't die from physical deterioration, animals yes, but not us. The question is why do we? the answer traditionally given is sin -- a loss of that original harmony and balance in our nature because of a turning away from God. Turning again toward God would seemingly restore something akin of the original harmony, but we are usually too far gone down the road of negative consequences (karma) and, presumably, damage to our psycho-physiological makeup, when we finally begin to get things right with God.

How much can healthy spirituality overcome? How much healing can take place?

The answers would seem to entail a consideration how much damage had been done to begin with, and the overwhelming evidence is that too much has been done to restore the original state of immortality and bliss.

Enter Christ . . . and a whole new situation unfolds. Nevertheless, even those who have walked most closely with him have eventually died, most of them before the age of 80.

So we shall see what John has learned about all this. It is certainly an area ripe for study.