Very nice. I enjoyed them

Blessings,
Terri

Thanks, Phil and Terri. It's nice to have some feedback, good or bad. This could kind of turn into a kind of open mike amateur night at the Psalms, if ya know what I mean. LOL. Feel free to join in.

Just for today Lord, this very moment in time, let us be content in the station of our lives and still our minds of any desires or changes. How difficult it is for many of us just to be right here, right now.

In this ever changing life of ours, it seems that we are not content when there are no immediate changes. Whatever pains we feel, may they be mental, emotional or physical, we pray for their releases. We always seem to desire to run away into a direction from where we are at the present without realizing that the very same things we try to run away from, are exactly the things that we need in our growth of spirit who within this mystery draws us closer to God. These are the sensual soul parts of ourselves that are looking for a quick remedy to relieve the dryness and emptieness that we think we need to fill with the diversions of a sensual life.

We want a better lover, job, house, friend, more money, new clothes, etc., and seem to find a general discontent in the very things that are in our lives at the present moment in time.

How to deal with this discontent that befalls most of us sooner or later. We really need to realize that the very same things we long to run away from, are the very necessary tools in our growth of maturity and letting go of wanting and needing.

So in our solitude and silence, let us give thanks for what we have right now and be content within this station of our life knowing it will pass. Find your happieness and joy within yourself in this moment of time and place, and stay within it because soon a new wave comes upon us and a guarantee of changes. Let us be here with love as Brad expresses in his poem.

Just for today Lord, this very moment in time, let us be content in the station of our lives and still our minds of any desires or changes. How difficult it is for many of us just to be right here, right now.

There is much freedom in that, Freebird.

In this ever changing life of ours, it seems that we are not content when there are no immediate changes. Whatever pains we feel, may they be mental, emotional or physical, we pray for their releases. We always seem to desire to run away into a direction from where we are at the present without realizing that the very same things we try to run away from, are exactly the things that we need in our growth of spirit who within this mystery draws us closer to God. These are the sensual soul parts of ourselves that are looking for a quick remedy to relieve the dryness and emptieness that we think we need to fill with the diversions of a sensual life.

I think that�s wonderfully and expertly said. If I didn�t know better, I would think that I was reading Thomas Merton, straight out of the book.

I think one of life�s most difficult tasks is discerning between obsessions and passions. As The Clash so eloquently stated:

quote:

Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An� if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

Yes, there are things working in us even when we feel like we�re a useless lump on the sofa. I think a true test of faith is not running away from ourselves, no matter the temptation, no matter the fear, no matter how large the drive to keep up with the Jones�s. And what choice do we really have? We can with great surety chase fame, fortune, and all things superficial and end up empty inside. That�s pretty much a given, I think. If there�s any doubt where our paths will lead, we can be pretty sure where this one will lead. But if we stay (often quite uncomfortably, precariously, and uncertainly), in ourselves, we might find something that was worth waiting for. But it�s hard to stay in that tension. Very hard. That�s why we so often find ourselves implanted with compulsions and obsessions that we garner from TV, radio, movies, bus advertising, or the culture at large.

It�s quite surprising just how very close peace and freedom are at any one moment. Very close.

Wow, Brad what a compliment re the similarities of Thomas Merton's words and mine. As God is my witness, I have not read his book, otherwise I would have given him credit in a quote. It is astounishing as to how we are all connected in consciousness. Are our thoughts and expressions really ever our own?, or do we tap into this sea of consciousness with others as we think our brilliance comes from us alone?.

Watch out Ken Wilbur should I be interested in your teachings, I might just pull into my mind the very thoughts and ideas you would express as your own. That would be indeed a miracle since I cannot recall any famous women philosophers of the past nor the very present, but there is always a first time for everything.

Scripture tells us that there is nothing new under the sun and so everything we say must be a repeat of what someone had said before us, or is thinking of the exact same thoughts that we are claiming as our own. It is all so very exciting and I hope we always will remain stimulated and inspired by what we consider are new thoughts and ideas.

quote of Brad:

It's quite surprising just how very close peace and freedom are at any one moment. Very close.

Earlier I was meditating on exactly this quote. I find the link between peace and freedom lies in love and forgiveness for ourselves and others. Never approach love at all until you also know that love is joined in a marriage with forgiveness. You really cannot know true love without a tender forgiving heart. Over and over we hear of individuals to have claimed love for another, yet the outcome of their love relationship may have ended with a great distance, bitterness, and lack of affection for the other allowing this negative emotion to be master over their lives, instead of the kindness in forgiving the other for their real or perceived hurtful acts and pains. So the answer between peace and freedom surely is a kind and tender forgiving heart that wants to retain the experience of having had the capability to love in the first place, longs to cherish the love shared and to offer the other peace and freedom in their separation from each other, and desiring same for themselves.

So here we stand in peace and freedom which is offered to us all with love and forgiveness as one, in this sacred vow.

Agreed. I would say that forgiveness is vital for achieving peace and freedom. But what obstacles are there to forgiveness? Why do we resist forgiving?

I believe that at the core of this resistance is a fear of death, even if it is expressed in a peripheral way, such as in a fear of being diminished. If we really perceived or believed our lives to be larger than just our life span on earth, would we be so resistant to giving in to the other, of seemingly weakening ourselves and strengthening someone else by forgiving them? Because that�s what I think it all comes down to. We generally have no problem saying "thank you." Is that because it�s easy to make a gesture to another when they have done something for us, when they�ve added to our net worth, when they have added to our sense of being more substantial and secure in the world?

In these cases one might see how forgiveness or giving thanks can be social conventions. But to take them beyond mere social conventions and into the realm of goodness we perhaps need to believe that we are not taking ourselves down a notch by forgiving another.

If we�re not dealing with forgiving loans and forgiving financial debts, which may or may not be a good thing to forgive, but are dealing instead with moral and emotional forgiveness, if we hold back, can we think of any reason that we do so other then we think it somehow diminishes us? We perhaps think our honor would be disturbed, or our sense of justice would be rankled. These are questions I ask of myself and wouldn�t ask of another. But I wonder quite often if my faith is worth the paper it is printed on if I can�t forgive.

In a morbid unreal perception by the ego the act of forgiveness is seeing a diminished self of being important; the ego still wants to have power and control over the other. As long as the person can with-hold forgiveness it gives the person, a false self of being Master. Furthermore, the ego still sees itself as being involved with the other and may even delight in the other person's increased sufferings and at this point things can go really out of control, remain unresolved, and leave both persons chained to each other, not through love, but an ever growing hate between them. As long as we value our false self more, the wheels of forgiveness can never start turning into a positive love mode.

There is not always visible justice, nor righting an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. This is a reality that we must accept if we want to be free, truly want to be free. So forgiveness does start with us first, not with the other. We are the captain of our ship and have the capital within our minds, our thoughts and hearts to guide us as to how we choose to deal with a situation at any given time. Do you care as to who is right or wrong?, if so you will have a much more difficult time forgiving. Can you humble yourself and honestly say that you do not care if another thinks of you as a weakling or a willy nilly nothing?. I have reached that level of not caring what another thinks, I just forgive, period, no strings attached. I have learned that by forgiving I sleep soundly at night without another haunting my good night's sleep, no torturous thoughts taunt me nor fantasies of another thinking any less of me.

Forgiveness is not just a gift to another, it is a gift of peace and freedom to yourself. This is how to avoid looking at at grief stricken face begging for forgiveness, just as I am ready to depart this Universe. I don't know about you, but I want to see faces of love as I take my last breath and say from God love I came and to God love I shall return.

That would be indeed a miracle since I cannot recall any famous women philosophers of the past nor the very present, but there is always a first time for everything.

Well, it seems to me you have the stuff it takes to philosophize, Freebird.

I like the philosophy that tends to be a bit poetic, because life is not best expressed in formulas or formal logic. E=MC2 may be a deep truth about energy and nature but is powerless to express the visions, feelings, and wonders that one beholds while staring at a flickering golden candle throwing dancing shadows on the wall. Some might say that such impressions are not the import stuff. But nothing is more important. That's where life is. That�s what life is.

quote:

There is not always visible justice, nor righting an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. This is a reality that we must accept if we want to be free, truly want to be free. So forgiveness does start with us first, not with the other. We are the captain of our ship and have the capital within our minds, our thoughts and hearts to guide us as to how we choose to deal with a situation at any given time. Do you care as to who is right or wrong?, if so you will have a much more difficult time forgiving. Can you humble yourself and honestly say that you do not care if another thinks of you as a weakling or a willy nilly nothing?. I have reached that level of not caring what another thinks, I just forgive, period, no strings attached. I have learned that by forgiving I sleep soundly at night without another haunting my good night's sleep, no torturous thoughts taunt me nor fantasies of another thinking any less of me.

I think those are marvelous reflections, Freebird. And the interesting thing about forgiveness (and perhaps this is because I've never really forgiven anyone�I'm not sure), but I don't think it's readily apparent when we've truly forgiven someone. It's very easy to think in our minds "I forgive you," but when old resentments still burn, when we still react to the same small provocations and idiosyncrasies, our forgiveness is shown to be incomplete. Not necessarily insincere. But incomplete. Maybe at other times, especially when forgiveness is spoken directly to a person, there are lots of tears and hugging and the forgiveness is apparent, real, and nearly complete. But so often we find ourselves needing to forgive people who are dead, no longer live near us, or are not safe to approach directly about such things.

Brad, let me backtrack to 10 years ago before my days in the sun as a Philosopheress , those days were sheer hell. I understand exactly what you are talking about when you mention old resentments still burning, and the difficulty of having meaning in the words of "I forgive you".

I had a very destructive habit of dealing with others who had hurt me intentionally or unintentionally. First of all, the agonies of feeling the pain inflicted upon me, the tears and the feelings of having been betrayed. Followed by the often repeated question as to how and why did this person do this to me. My conditioning from childhood did not help in such a situation because I would take the wrongs of another upon myself with the blame that I must have done something to deserve such pain. What a masochist I was totally enslaved in all this misery. Even when I extended a loving hand of speaking the words: "I fogive you", the agony still experienced did not release me even with the other person's hugs and sometimes tears.

The moment of truth, peace, and freedom for me came when I learned to love and accept myself and forgave my own sufferings, then I was free to give the same to another, and the words of "I forgive you" had true meaning and released us both from this affliction.

Brad you are also right regarding forgiveness of people who are dead, no longer live near us, or are safe to approach directly about forgiveness. What has freed me in these cases is prayers and during meditation I allow my heart to expand and send much light and love to these people many, many times. Within the stillness of deep meditation one can feel the acceptance of the love that is sent out to them.

So here you are; I have bared myself exposing the flaws and weaknesses of my past, and welcome the sanctuary and refuge of being a Philosopheress

Followed by the often repeated question as to how and why did this person do this to me.

That is still a mystery to me, especially considering that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. You can get more out of someone with the carrot than the stick. And it�s much more pleasant to do so. So why do we take these shortcuts, especially when we know that such shortcuts tend to hurt other people? And surely on some level we must know that such shortcuts hurt ourselves as well.

I think it�s probably because of fear � fear and the belief that the kind of power that is wielded via such shortcuts is the only power that works or that exists. In the midst of fear, some are going to be very hard pressed not to choose some type of power over no power.

My conditioning from childhood did not help in such a situation because I would take the wrongs of another upon myself with the blame that I must have done something to deserve such pain.

Yes, I think that�s very common. I think that�s a very common psychological process. We find it relatively easy to see ourselves as flawed but, especially in childhood, nearly impossible to view our caretakers, our very lifelines to the world, as monsters. That, in short, is how so many of us get screwed up.

The moment of truth, peace, and freedom for me came when I learned to love and accept myself and forgave my own sufferings, then I was free to give the same to another, and the words of "I forgive you" had true meaning and released us both from this affliction.

I think I had a moment of that last night, a moment of acceptance. It�s a little personal for even me to talk about the rest of the details online. But I believe you speak a profound truth.

What has freed me in these cases is prayers and during meditation I allow my heart to expand and send much light and love to these people many, many times.

I think that�s wonderful that you can do that, Freebird, but I have a hard time with that. So instead of bleeding off energy and just being a phony about it, I pray for someone who I know needs help and who I don�t have any kind of strained relationship with. I try to work from a perspective now of not letting other minds "own" me, and I think I could tend to keep them an unwanted center of attention if I were to worry all that much about achieving perfect and complete forgiveness. I know that I likely can�t so I just move on knowing that I need no expect perfection and perfect closure to anything.

WHAT DO WHITE BIRDS SAY

The earth has disappeared beneath my feet,
It fled from all my ecstasy;

Now like a singing air creature
I feel the Rose
Keep opening.

My heart turned to effulgent wings,
When has love not given freedom?
When has adoration not made one free?

A woman broken in tears and sweat
Stands in a field
Watching the sun and me
Trade jokes.

But never would Hafiz laugh
At your blessed labor
Of finding peace.

What do the dancing white birds say
Looking down upon burnt meadows?

All that you think is rain is not.
Behind the veil Hafiz and angels sometimes weep

Because most eyes are rarely glad
And your divine beauty is still too frightened
To unfurl its thousand swaying arms.

The earth has disappeared beneath my feet,
Illusion fled from all my ecstasy.

Now like a radiant sky creature
God keeps opening.

God keeps opening
Inside of Me.
Hafiz

A woman broken in tears and sweat
Stands in a field
Watching the sun and me
Trade jokes.


Hi All,

Catching up on this thread this evening, I'm amazed how relevant it is on this rainy afternoon in Baltimore. This morning, I was in the trees weeping. I really let go for five minutes. Then, refreshed, I went back to work.

Wednesday, a coworker had said something mean and unfair to me. Today, when I told her it had hurt, she expressed her deep regret.

When she expressed her regret I told her the reason it hurt so much: In the same tone, my mother had used two of those toxic words (You're a "sadist"... and a "masochist"! my mother had said) that was the last time I saw her. Deeply offended, I walked out of the restaurant where she and my father were visiting. I have not communicated with my mother since except, in a note, to tell her I forgive her.

When I was telling my coworker is when I started to tear up and went to the woods. When I returned, my coworker directly asked for my forgiveness. Will you forgive me, she said. I said yes, and meant it. Looking back, I wish I had added the words, "I forgive you."

After the cry and the forgiveness exchange, I'm over it with my coworker and now, I feel ok. It was so much easier for me to forgive my coworker than it had been to forgive my mother. Perhaps I'm more protective of my mother -- I hate seeing her make mistakes.

This morning I cried. Healing love transformation is a journey that opens us with a key like a sardine can exposing the hidden parts of ourselves, parts that we have all buried underneath to maybe look at some time in the future, or parts we have forgotten about.

Although I have loved much in my life, I have had little bonding with people. Is this due to my unconscious, circumstances in life, or a gift ordained by God to have brought me always nearer and closer to Him, or can it be all of these?.

I hear often of these long histories of friends going back to childhood, the love and bonding continues in their adult life, marriages were husband and wives can actually read each others faces and know what their spouses are thinking or wanting. Families were the bonds of love are unbreakable and steadfast they stand united through each and all trials that befall members of the family, etc. What a gift and joy for the ones blessed to have such experiences in their bonding.

My lack of truly bonding with another I attribute to my birth family taking me as a thirteen year old child to America. I had started to make friendships with children in my native land and this was severed due to my family's immigration. Several different schools and new residences followed and again it was hard to make friends and to bond with them. The truth of this lack of bonding with others stems from my always being parted from others as I was in the process of establishing a bond with them. This pattern continued and followed through with almost anyone I had ever met, including my late husband and children.

So my tears this morning were for something I never received; instead I was given another treasure my love bonding with God and the gift of bonding with others in spirit and soul without their physical presences. This I am so grateful for.

Brad's acceptance is truly great to hear, even without the details. Happy smile did not work, sorry.

Ryan, we all care, feel your pain, and thank you for sharing. The insensitiviy of people using unkind words so freely have such sorrowful consequences we can all relate to. Am glad to know you are doing okay. Love to you and a field of sunflowers.

Ryan presented two examples of forgiveness. One with the co-worker which was mutually resolved. There was the acknnowledgement of pain by Ryan due to the co-workers cutting words. He had the courage to face the co-worker with this pain and as to why her words grieved him so deeply. Forgiveness was extended to Ryan, he accepted, and a closure occurred in this incident. A healthy exchange of human loving kindness bore fruit within the relief of forgiving.

His mother appears to be part of a continued unresolved conflict for Ryan. There is no closure nor relief in his forgiveness expressed to his mother. Why does this pain still linger on for Ryan?. He loves his mother deeply and states that he hates seeing her make mistakes and is also very protective of her as well.

We are not responsible for the thoughts, actions and deeds of another. We are incapable of protecting an adult nor preventing them from making mistakes. To do so is beyond our power and control, and the mistakes we make are a necessary tool in our maturity and spiritual growth. We learn from these very same mistakes, that hopefully teach us wisdom and not for us to put our hands too close to the fire ever again. We are all responsible for what we say and do, thereby creating circumstances and consequences that we are solely responsible for without putting the blame unto another.

Ryan is not the cause of his mother's unhappieness. None of us can truly understand another nor say that we know another person in every way. Often we are unknown to ourselves as we look at the devastation of our internal creations brought outwards into our relationships with others. There are many reasons as to why Ryan's mother expressed such insensitivity during a meal shared in a restaurant with the family. The cruelty her words expressed may the the mirroring within her own soul directed toward her son, coupled with pride and anger. It is obvious that her careless words lacked in verbal communication skills expressing her love for her son.

What then is the resolvement in such a situation when Ryan has expressed his forgiveness toward his mother?. Silence, distance and coldness is the result of her lack in accepting her son's forgiveness for her. Here we have half of a heart which needs to be made whole once again.

May I suggest to Ryan to send to his mother a simple card now and then expressing his love for her and that he is thinking of her. No mention of the restaurant incident should be addressed, only a love offering is sufficient enough.

This simple card sending may open a door for communication once again and a genuine acceptance of her forgiveness of Ryan and extending her forgiveness for the sorrow of having hurt her son. We need to pray for these graces and trust that true communication and love can flow freely once again between mother and Ryan.

Self-hate: the engine that drives much of humanity.

I walked the trails today bare naked in front of god. I did not hide from Him my self-hate. Nor did I hide my openness to blessings and guidance.

My self-hate tells me I must have this or that, I must be this or that, before I move forward, before I deserve to move forward. This is difficult to describe and to talk about. To talk too much of this is to give voice to my self-hate and thus to strengthen the self-hate.

Oh, the flesh of self-hate that I have put on my spiritual skeleton is enormous. But you mustn't hate yourself for self-hate. And this hating can be expressed in a number of ways, including fixing, judging, criticizing, envying, and a hundred other ways, most of which disguise the self-hate behind a number of clever masks. Look carefully. Consider the real lineage of some of your actions and emotions, particularly ones that keep you stuck in a place that you'd rather not be.

As we struggle with self-hate, we give it more power. We are easily deceived that being in the arena with self-hate is a chance to engage and defeat it, to cleanse and rectify ourselves. But what we're wrestling with is a dynamo that gains strength from this struggle and gains power to strengthen the illusion that we're getting somewhere, that we're on the right path, that we're diminishing the things that we think stand in our way. And one should remember that we usually wrestle with this self-hate by proxy through the guise of a number of other things, including competitiveness or perfectionism. And our self-hate is often activated by other people (and aimed at other people) when the things they do remind us of the things we don't like in ourselves. Self-hate may rarely express itself as balling up your fists and saying to yourself "You idiot!" It usually bleeds out in other more subtle and disguised ways, for we will usually find it untenable to hate ourselves, but find it far easier to hate other people, especially if the alternative is to hate ourselves. Thus the disguise, the sleight-of-hand.

But we must break our swords over our knees and walk out of the ring and quit wrestling with ourselves. We can't be sure where to go or what to do next, but we need to stop the struggle. It is excruciatingly difficult to watch our wounds bleed without trying to bind them. But this we must do. Before giving ourselves to God we must do this or else it is very easy to simply make God our tag-team partner as we use Him to continue to wrestle with self-hate. This is probably also the seed of fundamentalist thinking and behavior. And those who fall into this trap feel quite sure that their path to sanctity and healing are to be realized when certain other forces are engaged in battle and eventually defeated. But that is just our self-hate running amok again. The more energy we put into it the more power our self-hate is given to delude us that we are doing the right thing.

Cynicism, radical skepticism, nihilism, among a number of other "ism's", are a part of this very same process. We feel the tighter we may cling to our biases and petty hatreds the closer we come to the very resolution, sanctification, and ratifications of ourselves.

But this doesn't work. Trust me. Trust someone who has put the mental energy equivalent of the Grand Coulee Dam into the various disguised means of self-hate. That doesn't necessarily mean that I wanted to hate. Rather, I think it shows just how bad I wanted to escape the hell I was in (and still am to a great extent). But the self-hate technique doesn't work. It will never work. I wish I could scream this to the world so that everyone would know this to be true. Stop. Put down your swords. You may not yet know exactly what to do, but put down your swords. Live with me, as I live, in this sometimes terrible tension of letting our wounds bleed, but do let us do so. Let's not compound the problem by mistaking action for progress. Stillness and patience can be extraordinary actions.

And then perhaps do the ridiculous and incredible. Put an apparently unwarranted and unreasonable trust in that which can't be seen and that which can't be touched. Don't try to know. Don't try to understand. Don't try to take. Don�t try to force. Don't give energy to that old dynamo that you left behind. Just trust and open yourself. Set your will to receive blessings and guidance from a source you can't comprehend and is perhaps incomprehensible. See if love takes root. It might not. It might take awhile. Be patient. Expect nothing. Don't take. Don't pull. Don't feed that old dynamo. Expect pain as usual. Expect hardship as usual. These don't magically go away. What you're cultivating is a plant that is of a different garden. It supercedes all the regular gardens of pain and disease, but does not necessarily replace them. A large, red, and most fragrant rose may be thought to be sprouting, a rose that throws both beauty and light over all our other gardens of concern.

We can think of a thousand excuses and rationalizations for why our self-hate is not self-hate but is good and justified. Self-hate causes a weakness that easily allows things such as self-righteousness to blind our vision. And it's very difficult not to feed that dynamo, not to wrestle with our self-hate, to just let go and let other paths, methods, and actions arise. The temptation is always to fiddle, fix, or fudge, to do something rather than nothing. But that's often a false choice made out of anger or fear. There is much power in doing something other than the normal process of feeding that dynamo, of struggling with our problems, weaknesses, and intransigent flaws. It may be difficult to accept as effective the actions and strategies that are out of the mainstream of our habits. But when one is stuck, it is time to question habits.

And to be fair, all is not lost. Somehow all things are made to work for the good, including a lot of crud that gets implanted in us and which we continue to strengthen and feed. Much of the driveness that motivates us to do some quite outstanding things is fed by our perfectionism, our fear of looking weak, and our shame of being imperfect. But life can be lived that way for only so long. Human endurance has its limits. And besides, you can't have it both ways. It's not easy to have peace and power, wealth and serenity. But one, at any time, may take a leap of imagination and perspective and reconsider how one defines power and wealth.

That's gut-wrenchingly honest sharing, Brad, Ryan and Freebird. I've been deeply moved in reading your recent posts and the vulnerability you demonstrate. Just wanting to thank you all for that.

Thanks Phil

My God, Brad, you knocked the socks right of my feet with your honest and courageous post on self-hate.

You described a state of being that some of us, like yourself, are in right now, others who have experience of having been there, and some, I shudder just thinking of it, will enter unaware.

Brad's quote:
A large, red, and most fragrant rose may be thought to be sprouting, a rose that throws both beauty and light over all our gardens of concern.
_________________________________________________

Here is the answer in overcoming self-hate. A beautiful red rose needs the warmth of the sun, love, and the pure waters of life to nourish its roots. Self-hate keeps one frozen, in a state of inertia and at the same time can engulf a person within a destructive fire destroying the roots of this beautiful rose. Without the love and flowing water and the warmth of the sun, a rose will never flourish and come fully alive in its fragrance and full bloom.

The reality of self-hate is anti-life. It is a killer that robs us of vitality and strength. It is our constant companion, like a vampire, zapping us of joy and our inner happiness. Without love for ourselves and others we wither away into a frozen tundra, or a constant burning, whereby we are incapable of lifting ourselves above into freedom.

How beautiful the sound of God's words: " I have loved thee with an everlasting love and with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3. His (Her, as Brad likes to say breath is in us, we are love, therefore, know it and belief it!.

We should hate the evil done by ourselves and others, but love is the glue that binds us in the oneness with God and each other, and is our spiritual skeleton, which by the way Brad, is excellently expressed by you It is the flesh around the spiritual skeleton we must slaughter with the sword of truth, and never feed the flesh with the food of self-hate, thereby, strengthening its hold over our lives and emotions. Use the sword to kill this flesh until nothing but light and love remain on our spiritual skeleton as we walk through the valley of death fearing no evil ever again.

This is a great opening for further discussing the causes of self-hate and the ammunitions we need to destroy it. God's Temple of light must be seen and shining forth in all its splendor the beautiful red rose with the white one within.

This is a great opening for further discussing the causes of self-hate and the ammunitions we need to destroy it.

I thought all that you said was wonderful, Freebird, and thanks for your praise. And I guess what I was saying is that our best weapon is to surrender, although "surrender" isn't technically a weapon at all. But it is just such leaps of logical illogic that I think we need to make. Lose your life to gain it. Etc. Merton says this wonderfully in "No Man is an Island":

quote:

This matter of "salvation" is, when seen intuitively, a very simple thing. But when we analyze it, it turns into a complex tangle of paradoxes. We become ourselves by dying to ourselves. We gain only what we give up, and if we give up everything we gain everything. We cannot find ourselves within ourselves, but only in others, yet at the same time before we can go out to others we must first find ourselves. We must forget ourselves in order to become truly conscious of who we are. The best way to lose ourselves is to love others, yet we cannot love others unless we love ourselves since it is written, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." But if we love ourselves in the wrong way, we become incapable of loving anybody else. And indeed when we love ourselves wrongly we hate ourselves; if we hate ourselves we cannot help hating others. Yet there is a sense in which we must hate others and leave them in order to find God. Jesus said: "If any man come to me and hate not his father and his mother�yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." As for this "finding" of God, we cannot even look for Him unless we have already found Him, and we cannot find Him unless he has first found us. We cannot begin to seek Him without a special gift of His grace, yet if we wait for grace to move us, before beginning to seek Him, we will probably never begin.

The only effective answer to the problem of salvation must therefore reach out to embrace both extremes of a contradiction at the same time. Hence that answer must be supernatural. That is why all the answers that are not supernatural are imperfect; for they only embrace one of the contradictory terms, and they can always be denied by the other.

What we need to do is to lighten our grip in order to get a grip. (Patent pending on that witty saying.)

Brad, thank you for introducing us to Merton. He is an absolutely amazing man with profound deep spiritual insights and understanding.

Everything about our lives, loves, and salvation is a mystery that no matter how much we try to unravel its secrets, it remains unknown. We must trust, that all works together for the Love and the Glory of God in His plan for our lives and our dependence upon His supernatural graces.

I have a patent already for us to lighten our grip in order to get a grip

Let us humbly continue with our discussion and see what pearls of wisdom we bring forth.

Hi All,

So much is happening in my life, diverse paradoxical joys, and so much of what is happening is reflected on this thread. Freebird, Brad, Phil, and I'm sure others, your loving attentiveness is a great help. I love you. However, the process of my life has superseded the process of texting it. I won't even attempt to "tell all."

So much is happening in my life, diverse paradoxical joys, and so much of what is happening is reflected on this thread.

Ditto, Ryan. Lot's going on on this end as well�although in the spirit of paradoxes, very little is going on as well. Truly. And I sure enjoyed reading what you had to say. Hope you say more if you feel like it.

Brad, thank you for introducing us to Merton. He is an absolutely amazing man with profound deep spiritual insights and understanding.

You're welcome, Freebird, but let me direct the thanks to where it really belongs, JB and Phil who introduced me to Merton.

Regarding surrender (more thoughts while walking in the woods):

By surrender I don't mean necessarily to give in or give up, although giving up is usually a good start. By surrender I mean not to struggle, or rather, not to make things a struggle if they don't have to be. But our sense of pride, fear, ego, competitiveness, and confusion will often decide in favor of the struggle. We will decide that the struggle "has to be." I think spiritual progress can be measured in our ability to make better and better discernments about what is really important and what is just noise that we would be better off ignoring or letting slide.

In everyday life that means not to assume that uncomfortable feelings or disturbing thoughts have to be made to go away. In particular, that emptiness and panicky sense of dread, aloneness, and insubstantiality that we feel from time to time (or often) is likely our invitation to empty ourselves of our typical desires and to test the waters of something new, something deeper. And especially when our typical set of desires go unfulfilled, up will come rushing those uncomfortable feelings we may have worked a lifetime to pave over, drown out, and suppress. And one of the bravest, and most frightening, things we can do is play "What if" with these up-rushing feelings instead of automatically running away from them or trying to make them go away. What if these feelings aren't bad? What if their aim is to take me someplace new and better? What if I let go trying to satisfy every survival instinct in me and just trust that these feelings are life-giving and not life-extinguishing? What if my world can be, and is, much bigger than I, Cosmo, or Playboy magazine ever imagined? What if instead of being freed and enlightened by the ideas I live by now, I am instead enslaved and narrowed by them? What if the world is bigger than I can imagine?

When something is uncomfortable it is often normal to push it away as bad � especially if we feel there is nothing we can do about it. And especially if those feelings evoke feelings of fear, shame, weakness, or hopelessness. It is human nature to reach for something to change, drown out, or bury those feelings that cut so deep and challenge our very sense of feeling safe, alive, and vital. But especially from reading Merton, along with advice from others, it's apparent to me now that one of the key processes of human development is moving from non-reflective reactions (reaching for a beer, for example) to reflective considerations (deciding to stay a while in the tension of an uncomfortable feeling). The latter is a recipe for freedom, not indecision or paralysis. It is our non-reflective "gut" reactions that are usually the ones that are involved with taking away our freedoms.

Read Merton's "New Seeds of Contemplation" to get all the theological implications, because I just couldn't do them justice. But one might be chagrined (I know I am) to find out that one has been spent a lifetime pushing uncomfortable things away that should have been embraced. But it can take a lifetime to learn this. It's not easy nor is it particularly apparent. And one of the oddest things to embrace is emptiness. I know this feeling well, and I could never imagine it as being anything but a prelude to spiritual death if not physical death. But I would say there is a very high likelihood that just the opposite is the case. Again, Merton's book explains this so well I won't water down what he was saying by trying to paraphrase. But suffice it to say that 90% of the world's violence would cease immediately if people could live in the tension of their uncomfortable feelings without giving in to impulsive and fear-based actions; if they could understand that such feelings are a huge and vital invitation to sanctification and peace and not indicative of a threat to their survival.

Wonderful deep enlightening thoughts expressed by Brad I am deeply touched and plan to discuss them further, but today while sitting on my riding lawnmower cutting grass the following came to me which is right on target and fitting in what we are sharing. Here I was with no desire, only peace, right here in this moment of time.

Ryan may the joys continue for you, and yes please do share more with us

TO BE, OR NOT TO BE: THAT IS THE QUESTION

To be, or not to be: that is the question.
Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles.
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more: and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to the wish'd: To die, to sleep;
To sleep perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled of this mortal coil.
Must give us pause: there is the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time.
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely;
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insilence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life.
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear the ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
is sickled o'er with pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry.
And lose the name of action - Soft you now!
The fair Orphilia Nymph in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd
Shakespeare