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Oh man, I'm wondering if I am coming across as the resident bible thumper here... But this came to mind after watching the video.

As theses ladies show & tell, we have to name & own the ways we have wounded/sinned against others, right along with the weight of grief over all sins we have committed, be it abortion or slander or any of the 7 deadly sins ( Is that a movie title?) Thank God for the mercy and forgiveness of Jesus Christ! A godly sorrow brings repentance.

Pick your favorite bible version.

Jeremiah 6:14

King James Version (KJV)

14They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
**********************************************

The Message (MSG)Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
Amplified Bible (AMP)

13-15"Everyone's after the dishonest dollar,
little people and big people alike.
Prophets and priests and everyone in between
twist words and doctor truth.
My people are broken—shattered!—
and they put on Band-Aids,
Saying, 'It's not so bad. You'll be just fine.'
But things are not 'just fine'!
Do you suppose they are embarrassed
over this outrage?
No, they have no shame.
They don't even know how to blush.
There's no hope for them. They've hit bottom
and there's no getting up.
As far as I'm concerned,
they're finished."
God has spoken.
***********************************************


Amplified Bible (AMP)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

14They have healed also the wound of the daughter of My people lightly and neglectfully, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.
************************************************

New International Version (NIV)


14 They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
‘Peace, peace,’ they say,
when there is no peace.
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Since we're mentioning healing from abortion, see the Rachel's Vineyard site.
- http://www.rachelsvineyard.org/

My wife helped out at some of their weekend retreats. Very powerful, and effective.
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gail,

Yes, that verse really applies here, doesn't it?


'Peace, peace' they say, when there is no peace.

I assume you're referring to Susan's report that the abortionist told her "you're gonna be OK after a few days," and she adds, "Which was such a lie..." and the dreadful agony that followed her for years...
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, Phil. Excellent resource. Father Frank Pavone (Priests for Life) has a short video clip on his website about how he came to name it Rachel's Vineyard.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gail,

I assume you're referring to Susan's report that the abortionist told her "you're gonna be OK after a few days," and she adds, "Which was such a lie..." and the dreadful agony that followed her for years...[/QUOTE]

Yes, your assumption is right. I have heard several stories of women who were told the same thing, or it isn't a big deal or its only tissue and worse... Lord have Mercy
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Friends,

Here’s a fantastic article in the Wall Street Journal about a book by Mara Hvistendahl: Unnatural Selection: Choosing Boys Over Girls and the Consequences of a World Full of Men.

Her research reveals the many societal problems resulting from the disproportionately greater number of female baby abortions across the globe. Many cultures are motivated to have baby boys and are destroying unborn girls by the millions. The result of this gender imbalance: some serious issues concerning the buying and stealing of girls and women, among the dark effects predicted by female killing.


http://online.wsj.com/article/...04576361691165631366.


What I appreciate most about this article is that it points out a serious moral conundrum (IDK if that's the right word! Somebody help me) in Ms.Hvistendahl’s thinking:

She believes that something must be done about the purposeful aborting of female babies or it could lead to "feminists' worst nightmare: a ban on all abortions."

It is telling that Ms. Hvistendahl identifies a ban on abortion—and not the killing of tens of millions of unborn girls—as the "worst nightmare" of feminism. Even though 163 million girls have been denied life solely because of their gender, she can't help seeing the problem through the lens of an American political issue. Yet, while she is not willing to say that something has gone terribly wrong with the pro-abortion movement, she does recognize that two ideas are coming into conflict:

"After decades of fighting for a woman's right to choose the outcome of her own pregnancy, it is difficult to turn around and point out that women are abusing that right." Late in "Unnatural Selection," Ms. Hvistendahl makes some suggestions as to how such "abuse" might be curbed without infringing on a woman's right to have an abortion. In attempting to serve these two diametrically opposed ideas, she proposes banning the common practice of revealing the sex of a baby to parents during ultrasound testing. And not just ban it, but have rigorous government enforcement, which would include nationwide sting operations designed to send doctors and ultrasound techs and nurses who reveal the sex of babies to jail. Beyond the police surveillance of obstetrics facilities, doctors would be required to "investigate women carrying female fetuses more thoroughly" when they request abortions, in order to ensure that their motives are not illegal. Such a regime borders on the absurd.

... Despite the author's intentions, "Unnatural Selection" might be one of the most consequential books ever written in the campaign against abortion. It is aimed, like a heat-seeking missile, against the entire intellectual framework of "choice." For if "choice" is the moral imperative guiding abortion, then there is no way to take a stand against "gendercide." Aborting a baby because she is a girl is no different from aborting a baby because she has Down syndrome or because the mother's "mental health" requires it. Choice is choice. One Indian abortionist tells Ms. Hvistendahl: "I have patients who come and say 'I want to abort because if this baby is born it will be a Gemini, but I want a Libra.' "

This is where choice leads...
.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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All very true!

Nice to see you read the Wall Street Journal, Shasha! Wink
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can't imagine a reasonable person defending abortion as legal and moral, but wanting to make it illegal to selectively abort females because of the moral consequences of a gender imbalanced society!

???!!!

I think the consequence of evil is that it really does distort thinking, and in the extreme fragments not only the mind but the personality. Goodness and truth have internal consistency. Their absence is apparent in this kind of above 'logic.'
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What is the leading cause of death for Black Americans? Cancer, heart disease, homicide, HIV? No, no, no. It's abortion.

...abortions in the black community outnumber all other causes of death combined.

New York City, the home of Planned Parenthood, aborts nearly 60% of all black pregnancies, a rate alarmingly high in proportion to whites and Hispanics..


Can you believe *more* black babies are aborted than are born?!

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ne...011&utm_medium=email

And check out this documentary:

MAAFA 21--Black Genocide in 21st Century America

So what does "Maafa 21" mean? "Maafa" is the Swahili term which means "tragedy" and is used to describe the centuries of oppression and diaspora resulting from slavery. "21" refers to the 'maafa' of the 21st century, which is ABORTION. The film presents some of Planned Parenthood's origins (formerly the American Birth Control League), attributing to it a "150-year-old goal of exterminating the black population." Maafa 21 presents the racist views of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger, who advocated Black eugenics (kiling of Blacks). This film presents the tragic fact that abortion is the #1 killer of black people in America today!



To view a two minute trailer of Maafa 21 go to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLnNi_qb7nY

Also, it appears the whole movie can be viewed on utube in multiple parts.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Fascinating testimony of Gianna Jessen who survived a botched abortion when she was 7.5 months in the womb. Planned Parenthood counseled a "late term, saline abortion" to her mother. Gianna was miraculously delivered alive when she should have been burned to death in the womb.

She understands the pitiful denial of God in the abortion drama. Appalling what her abortionist says about his job, whose clinic chain grosses 70 million per year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...MPuQ&feature=related

Be sure to listen to Part II, which is a BEAUTIFUL sermon.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Phil
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Thanks, Shasha. Seems you've become quite attuned to this issue, haven't you? That's quite an appalling thing we're doing in society with abortion!
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, Phil, though I've never had an abortion myself, this topic touches me on so many levels. And in my God-less days, I'd easily have aborted if I'd ever gotten pregnant, so I'm very empathic to women who abort.

It just seems insane to stand by during this holocaust and go along with the political diversion. It feels like we're looking at evil and calling it good.

Yes, CHOICE and FREEDOM are good. They are good words, good ideals. But they're used manipulatively in the abortion debate as a smokescreen for the horror of murdering the unborn human.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Agreed, Shasha. The bottom line is that our freedom ends where the rights of another begins. That's why there's so much resistance among pro-choicers to affirm that the fetus is an individual human being. Once that is conceded, it's a whole new ethical situation, and they know it.
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Praise God! Another abortion worker has become a defender of the unborn!

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ne...011&utm_medium=email

Jewels Green from Penn. was 17 and pregnant when her boyfriend " took me to the abortion clinic, but I literally ran out in the hope of saving my baby. Two days later,... I had an abortion. It nearly killed me. No, not the surgical procedure, the psychological aftermath. I attempted suicide three times after my abortion and finally ended up in an adolescent psychiatric ward of a community hospital for a month to recover.

What is interesting about this woman's story is how her work as an abortion worker was an attempt to receive healing for her own abortion. This happens a lot.

During my time at the clinic, I was a staunch supporter of abortion rights, while all the time knowing in my heart that I felt that what I did was wrong, that I missed my baby, and that I wished things could be different for me. In hindsight, I can see that by surrounding myself with people who believed it was OK to abort babies, I was hoping that someday I would be OK with aborting my baby. This never happened… ...

Identifying myself as pro-life, though, did not come until many years later. After finally forgiving myself for aborting my first child I was able to see the world differently. ... After giving birth to three sons and feeling the life grow inside me and knowing the fierce overwhelming love a mother can feel for a child, I have been able to finally acknowledge that yes, life begins at conception. But it wasn’t until stumbling upon links to Abby Johnson’s YouTube videos, and then reading her book Unplanned, that I could say out loud that I was pro-life. It was Abby’s amazing story, and her courageous and honest testimony, that helped me to openly join the ranks of the pro-life movement. ...

I worked in the autoclave room where the “products of conception” (as so many pro-choice proponents—and abortion clinic counselors—call the fetus and placenta) were rearranged and counted to make sure “we got everything.” For early abortions, this meant floating the contents of the jar in water to visualize the chorionic villi....counting hands and feet, making sure the spine and ribcage and skull were present...

I saw my lost child in every jar of aborted baby parts. One night after working autoclave my nightmares about dead babies were so gruesome and terrifying and intense I met with the clinic’s director to talk about my feelings. She was very understanding, open and honest, and painfully forthright when she told me, “What we do here is end a life. Pure and simple. There is no disputing this fact. You need to be OK with this to work here.”


Notice that one's conscience often does not ripen till decades after their abortion, more evidence for emphasizing sexual morality at an early age.

Thank you, Abby Johnson, for making a way for so many abortion workers to be set free.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"It's OK to kill a baby in the womb when...?

...finish this sentence," evangelist Ray Comfort asks a bunch of young people on the street.

"180" is the name of his 33-minute documentary because, in a matter of minutes, pro-choicers do a complete reversal (a 180) when challenged to think more deeply about the unborn baby.

Ray shares that he is Jewish and "deeply concerned that a generation of people are forgetting one of the greatest tragedies in the history of the human race...that those who forget history are destined to repeat it."

He does a brilliant job of showing the sickening similarities between the WWII Holocaust and the American genocide of abortion. Hitler declared that Jews were non-human and could be killed; he legally killed them. Basically, this is the same rationale by most pro-choicers who deny the unborn a right to live.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ne...011&utm_medium=email
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Jill Stanek will be our keynote speaker at an ecumenical Pro-life conference coming to my church early next year.

See her interview with O'Reilly on Fox News clip at the bottom of her page (5 minutes).

I wanted to weep when I heard her story of holding that born alive, aborted, baby in her arms until he died. It was a 45 minutes that changed her life.

Jill worked as an RN at CHRIST Hospital in IL and considered it "blasphemous" that babies were being aborted and unwanted aborted babies were left to die in a hospital named after her Lord!

http://www.jillstanek.com/who-do-they-think-i-am/


This 8-minute clip gives more detail and fleshes out how she took on Obama who opposed "Born Alive" legislation out of fear that it would reverse Roe v Wade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z65F0z-UKmk
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shasha,

I don’t know if you middle-Americans are aware, but FYI:

Statistics show the NYC abortion rate at 41% of pregnancies. These are from newspapers and NOT the Catholic Church and are based on NYC Health Department data.

56% of the abortions were repeat customers.

http://gothamist.com/2011/09/0...t_abortions_in_t.php

I saw a few weeks back that a petition in San Francisco received 7700 signatures and thereby the next upcoming public ballot will address the legal proposal to ban circumcision of males prior to age 18.

Inanity at its purest: government will endorse the elimination of a human being right up to the minute before the moment of its birth but preclude in the minutes thereafter any elimination of its sacred foreskin.

Heads on straight?
 
Posts: 465 | Registered: 20 October 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Heavy video clips and links! The insanity goes on and on . . .
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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All,

I don’t know if this local NJ news was available to you in your states, so FYI. It addresses a lawsuit from a dozen NJ nurses against the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey (including among those nurses, one who has been there for 22 years) dealing with a recent mandate concerning their potential dismissal if they do not participate in abortion-related procedures. The freedom of conscience act (FOCA) is under attack more and more. This is one current hotspot. The present administration associated with President Obama does not act to sustain the existing laws in conscience protection regards. They can readily look the other way and allow the chips to ‘fall where they may’ since existing laws clearly provide for conscience protection and they can maintain there is no need to do or change anything wrt laws. Meantime many Christian doctors and nurses, as well as Christian hospitals are aware they will be seeing increasing hostility from the government and secular world. There is much forthcoming intimation and intimidation that denial of abortion related services will be considered to constitute discrimination against those seeking abortion on demand. Public healthcare may impinge on private practices. Christian hospitals may be forced to consider closing. This lawsuit is among others in the nation, I suspect.

Secular society (as well as too many in Christian society) remain obdurate in providing for and safeguarding abortion on demand. ‘Sin gets its power from the law”.

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/1...to-assist-abortions/

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-...ions,0,5835421.story

http://blog.azpolicy.org/life/...science-protections/

The University states that they are not being coercive and maintain their compliance with existing FOCA laws. So…TBD in court.
 
Posts: 465 | Registered: 20 October 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Pops.

From that second link, get this:

"In their legal filing, the nurses say that a supervising nurse insisted that all of her staff nurses be trained in terminating pregnancies and be ready to participate in them. Vinoya said it was in direct opposition to her beliefs, and to the reasons why she entered the medical field in the first place. "I am committed to preserving life, saving life, and I think elective abortion is murder," she said.

"They're being forced to choose between their faith and their job,"

Very tough spot to be in...the battle is heating up.

Pop-pop, where did you get the quote "Sin gets its power from the law" ?
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shasha,

The words you asked about are from 1 Cor 15: 56.

I have used them with great license and arguably inappropriately – especially since we Christians all really love to argue: sect against sect, denomination against denomination, meme against meme, conservative against liberal, feminist against chauvinist, disciple against antichrist, wheat against tare.

But imo anyway, I believe there is a substantial difference and therein a substantial POWER difference that gets realized between individual personal sin (although all sin in the final analysis is individual and personal) and collective societal sin (presumptive living beyond ones means and/or pornography as examples) and the sanctioned-by-law sin of a society at large.

Abortion is a quite evident example of sanctioned-by-law societal sin with an established supportive and organized platform for its continuance (lobbyists, clinics, medical and legal professionals as well as politicians, and last but not least: media). This is the evidence of powers and principalities – over and above random individuals sinning. And it is very difficult to undo (as we know from almost 40 years of effort in endeavoring to bring about reform and repentance). Its hardening has taken hold in our national social fabric.

Not only is law-sanctioned societal sin hard to correct, it is vast in its effects and consequence. Certainly prior to Roe vs. Wade there were some abortions occurring, and yes those that decided for aborting the life of their child did face the risk of serious injury and death themselves because of ‘back alley-coat hanger’ procedures. But there were in no way 1.4 million abortions every year. And those who might have faced the risk of losing their life (to abort their child’s life) probably thought more seriously not just the first, but about a repeat performance. Whereas, among the 41% of pregnancies aborted in NYC a year or so back (and for which we have statistics) 56% of those were repeat customers! That’s a powerful harvest for the phantoms of death, over and above what they reaped prior to Roe vs Wade!

So in a very real way (imo) ‘sin gets its power from the law’ – a substantive power; and I have few qualms with taking some poetic license with the scripture. Exegesis – bah, humbug (in this case, imo – and I’ll take the few snowball hits that might zip my way)

Other sanctioned-by-law societal sin is the partially founded and strongly forthcoming gay marriage laws. Loss of FOCA protection seems well along in coming. I would guess ‘definitely’-- should Obama be re-elected. And I do not say that as a Republican but as a Christian. Like Bob Dylan song lyrics – ‘You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows’.

The terrible reality ----- God long ago told us and we will soon be realizing, that sin has a consequence. It cannot not result in societal undoing, unraveling – chaos. Even if one doesn’t peek -- it still has a consequence! The wages of sin are suffering and death. …… Duh!

But wait! Sorry, I forgot …. contemporary science has not discovered sin, cannot attest to its existence ……… beyond some silly irrational religious beliefs that should be separate from the affairs of the STATE and not mentioned in the public arena, the ostrich yard.

Anyway, there is no sin in contemporary America --- except maybe… maybe… in the 1% that OWS points to… there may be some there. Maybe. Depends on one’s worldview, I guess.

Buster
 
Posts: 465 | Registered: 20 October 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for your reflections on this, Pop-pop.

I do appreciate your engaging with me on this topic.

The Father has seriously gripped me to understand the problem of abortion. What is complex and what is simple about this issue? What is truth and what is obfuscation? What is sin and who is responsible? Society-sanctioned sin is the history of our human race.

Fortunately, killing humans is against the law in this country; that is consistent with God's Law.

Problem is the unborn are not "persons," according to Roe v Wade and so don't have a right to life. So you can't kill a baby sleeping peacefully in a bassinet, but you can LEGALLY kill that same baby sleeping peacefully in it's mothers womb ....because..... WHY??
A born baby is a person; an unborn baby is not. !?*#!?

That's the crazy LAW!

Did you see the 'personhood' initiative failed by a small margin in Mississippi. PP founded a huge campaign to defeat it.


I'm currently writing a short personal testimony I call:

"The day 'prayerfully pro-choice' stopped working for me."

By the way, for those who have not yet listened to this abortion debate between two Christian ministers, I highly recommend it. It's our very own Phil St. Romain debating against a 'pro-choice' minister. You can find it on the opening page of the thread "Should Abortion Be Legal?"

here:

http://shalomplace.org/eve/for.../72410135/m/76910175
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The inspired author of Sacred Scripture points out to us in the story of the fall that Eve knew. Her words make clear that Eve knew. Prior to her encounter with the serpent, she knew. She had lived her life knowing -- enjoyed her life…while knowing. Indeed there had been no need, no impetus to question; no impetus to consider, to evaluate, nor to rationalize. Truth was known to her. Her response to the serpent indicates that.

And then along came Jones --

“Did God REALLY tell you not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?”

Ask a child if it would be right to kill the baby growing in her mommy’s belly. Truth is known to that child. She/he already knows. Little Eve and little Adam already know. She/he has no impetus to question the obvious; no impetus to evaluate or rationalize. They simply have no impetus. They simply have no serpent.

“Is the life growing daily in your mommy’s belly a PERSON?” “Is that bump moving about and protruding from your mommy’s belly a HUMAN being?” “Would it be okay if mommy asked the doctor to kill it; to ask doctor to puncture its head and vacuum out its brain?”

“Objection! Objection --- leading the witness!” a lawyer would yell. Yet, the American legal system, pro-choice rationale, and NOW followers ‘lead the witness’ in just that way.

Lead even Christian witnesses in some denominations, and more than enough in every denomination, who somehow affirm that such an act is okay. Nay, more than that, it is claimed and now is a constitutional right deserving sanction by law – a right like the other inalienable rights listed in our Bill of Rights -- as given us by our creator! YIKES!

Why is that? Why has this ‘leading’ come about? Because of impetus.

How can you prove there is impetus?

There must be impetus. Why pick up the scalpel and vacuum tube? Why invade the womb? Why scrape or puncture? If there is no life, no person, no human being ….then there is no need to act, no need of doctor, no need to question, no need to consider, no need to define precise moments etc. etc. Why pick up that scalpel? “Speaking words of wisdom: let it be. Let it be. Let it be. Let it be. There will be an answer, let it be!”

But you know what? It really is just that simple. Truth doesn’t need rationalizing; it is simple in its nature.

For much more than 1974 years of world history and almost 200 years of American history everyone knew such action was wrong; that such killing constitutes murder.

One rationalizes for a reason. Little Eve and little Adam have no reason to rationalize; so the truth is obvious, is simple. It is deception that requires some figuring, some smoke and mirrors, some fandangle. Deception requires some serpentine movements; needs a unique tongue so to speak – forked. Truth is straightforward.

What might be the reasons; from whence comes the impetus …. ? I’m sure dear readers you can come up with a list, and there would not be a single noble reason on that list. All would be ignoble. What else can the taking of unprotected, defenseless innocence be? Loveable innocence of the very same form that billions throughout history smile, bill and coo in the presence of!

If you snapped a photo of little Eve or Adam’s dismay at the earlier suggested actions by a doctor it would counter the thousand words and more that come from zealous pro-choice folk. What a thing for a Christian to be zealous about.

That our government endorses this activity via law, that Christians and whole Christian denominations endorse this, fights for this, lobbies for this, contributes monies for this…?????? INANE. INSANE. This is what the word ABOMINATION is most appropriately descriptive of. AIYEE!

That 50 million innocents in our country have been lost to such irrational rationalizations….

But again, it’s not due to the rationalization as much as to the impetus. The impetus is the cause, the rationalizations and the arguments are the effects, the odour. And the other effects – the dumpster contents – they have the same odour -- the odour of death. And a society with that many odorous dumpsters cannot call itself ‘the great society’; nor ‘a light on the hill,’ nor a ‘leader of the free world’ – just a leader of a sick world.

The whole is the sum of the parts, and unfortunately, the parts have lost the moral courage to embrace truth, to stand in truth. Even the salt has lost its flavor…. noticeable in its voting, noticeable in some recent denominations.

In many ways, women are the very soul of the church. Its soul has abased itself.

“Can a mother abandon the child in her womb?” scripture asks (seemingly as if she couldn’t). The OT inspired writer wasn’t prophetic enough to have foreseen the NT third millennium Christian women adamant in their stance for abortion rights -- and in the name of the Lord at that! (Or perhaps he had, but was too embarrassed to write it down.)

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but it is harsh. It’s a harsh reality. It’s a reality that continues harsh … year after year after year. And harsher it grows when Christian denominations sustain its harshness. ‘You’ve come a long way, baby’ the billboards have affirmed. A long way, but a wrong way, methinks.
 
Posts: 465 | Registered: 20 October 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, I agree with you, Pop-pop. The word ABOMINATION is most descriptive of Christians endorsing abortions. What is the greatest horror of our day??

Whatever you do to the least of these, you do to me!

There is that piece in Revelations that talks about "lawlessness" as a manifestation of the anti-christ.

Yesterday, Senator D. Stabenow sent me a form letter response to my request that she restore pro-life policies and she said,
"I have taken the position that the choice of abortion is not a decision government should make or deny."

The government will take a born baby from a mother's house if that baby is neglected or abused, permanently in some cases, but the government will also allow an abortionist to dismember that same baby in the womb?!"

And to 'pro-choice' Christians, I'm asking:

Soooo....what part of "Thou shalt not kill" do you not understand?
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shasha,

Your Senator’s response *“that the choice of abortion is not a decision government should make”* is self-contradictory, for the government has in fact made a ‘decision FOR abortion’, it did so with Roe vs. Wade wherein the government affirmed abortion as lawful, a position not previously held prior to that time – nor at any time throughout the history of the United States from its inception till that time. (I believe this was the case as well for most countries in the free world prior to then – though I’m not time-inclined to research that). And, in fact, our government persists in its ‘deciding for abortion’ as it continues in its denial of society’s responsibility to provide protection for the vulnerable and defenseless unborn. Not to decide is to decide. It decides (via persisting in its decision) each time legislation comes up to change the situation – like the partial-birth amendment that carried both houses but was lost to a presidential veto. (If today you hear His voice, harden not your hearts.) Government made and makes that decision again and again and again.

And it appears that government is on its way towards punishing medical professionals who won’t make the choice for performing abortions. The ‘pro-choice’ segment of American citizenry is poised against choice (conscience-guided choice) when it comes to medical health professionals. Open warfare in this FOCA regard is commencing -- as that post I made re the nurses in NJ substantiate, though this has been going on for a good while now, but is about to become intensified.

The Senator should endeavor to correct her form letter, methinks.

Shasha, I commend you on initiating this thread and in being active with your Senator. And in trying to affect the thought of other Christian women who are ‘pro-choice’. In a very real way the battle takes place in the arena of America’s women. There is no NOM in this battle but there certainly is the NOW. It is NOWs voice and votes that politicians and lawmakers fear and woo. Unfortunately even the politics within some church denominations apparently affect some ministers as well.

‘The buck stops here,’ Harry Truman said. And in a very real way, when it comes to an abortion the buck stops with the woman. (That’s what your woman Senator was trying to say).

Women are the soul of the church. They are the most prevalent and active participants in church life. Churchgoing women tamed the west – in that they tamed the men that tamed the west. The American Christian woman was a salient force in making America what it became. She is the same salient force that will make America what it becomes. Unhappily, she (not all of course) has been listening to the serpent. She (not all of course) has been playing god with life – not hers but with the beating life, the as yet unborn life, within her.

Everyone knows the golden rule. It’s the basis of the natural law. What does it take for a ‘Christian’ woman to put herself in the position of that tiny beating heart, that dependent body, that expectant soul and apply the golden rule? This is a no-brainer. Who needs scientific proof of anything?

In my earlier post I didn’t get involved in listing or arguing the various points. John (in 3:19) writes that ‘men loved darkness rather than light’. All the little arguments that folk put forth in the form of questions etc exist because people want to sustain what they want to do, want to rationalize their deciding to yield to the temptation (impetus) that entreats them. Who needs any science; who needs any exegesis; who needs any government endorsement of the rightness of a wrong act?

Forty years – that’s two generations; that’s a lot of time and a lot of folks to have rejected this evil. (53 million in U.S. alone is a lot of God’s little ones).

Here’s a scary scripture (too bad Halloween has passed): “Therefore God is sending upon them a perverse spirit which leads them to GIVE CREDENCE TO FALSEHOOD, so that all who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil doing will be condemned.” (2 Thess 2:11 &12).

On a slightly different note: ‘An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure’ the saying goes. I heard a statistic yesterday from the Project Rachel ministry that maintained that 80% of women having abortions suffer from mental health issues as a result. Christian women supporting a ‘pro-choice’ position are thereby supporting the deterioration of woman’s mental health and the onset of depression. Does not this also indicate that a pro-choice position produces bad fruit and thereby is evidence of its being sin? The wages of sin are sickness and death – sickness for the aborter and death for the aborted.

There is so much obvious evidence that pro-choice is untenable for a Christian.

How can one not wonder about the scary scripture and its appropriateness to these times.
 
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