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Truth Vs Falsehood, How to Tell the Difference , Dr. David Hawkins, M.D., P.H.D. Login/Join
 
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I feel one of the main reasons Hawkins draws criticism is he talks in absolutes, as that article states.

Absolutes are a big No No in a society which has its intellectual and academic structures well entrenched in pluralistic relativism; or the GREEN meme for those familiar with Spiral Dynamics.


I�m not sure if it�s a problem with absolutes or even the oddness of the technique that he uses. After all, if one could find out, with 100% accuracy, whether or not it was going to rain tomorrow by doing the Three Stooges Eye Poke Test then few would complain about how the results were obtained or would fuss about whether or not the results obtained were called absolutes (rain or no rain would be absolutes). The problem seems to be that the results Hawkins obtains come from the unconscious and are being presented as absolutes beyond the mind they were obtained from. If one could give the muscle resistance test to god then one might indeed obtain absolutes. Or maybe that kind of zeroes in on a possible attitude problem somewhere within the research or researchers.

It sounds like Hawkins has a firm grasp on cultural relativism and the BS it uses to try to ground itself.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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michael,

Welcome and thank you for the article! Smiler I note with interest that Hawkins' Amazon "calibration" of the new book has dropped from five stars to three and a
half.

Brad,

George Washington's character has been called The Eighth Wonder of the World. This is a man who rose early for prayer and retired to his study for scripture reading and study every night at 9pm.
We know how soldiers are, but his troops would not dare to use certain language in front of him. I could go on and on, but being at the same level as George Bush does seem a bit low to me.

Hawkins' new tape series:

http://www.nightingale.com/p.a...Source=intgooglead20

Nightingale Conant has been a leading force in the personal development field. They are part of the Human Potential movement and can lean quite a bit toward New Age at times.

http://www.kindredspirit.co.uk...4-david-hawkins.html

A supportive piece from a New Age magazine. Another interview becomes available next month...

Why are all these New Agers getting into conservative politics? You'd think they would shun him, wouldn't you?
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Why are all these New Agers getting into conservative politics? You'd think they would shun him, wouldn't you?

What�s your evidence that this is so, Michael? That would be good news, if true.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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From page 202 of Truth vs Falsehood:

Problematic Positionalities and Issues

Acrimonious 160

Anarchy 100

Anti-/hate America 160

Anti-religion/God 135-180

Apologist 190

Atheism 165

Bearing False Witness 60

Birchism (John) 160

Blame 180

Capital Punishment(adults) 160

Capital Punishment (adolescents) 130

"Causes" 175

Conspiracy theories 180

Contentious 170

Contrary 185

Criticalness 120

"Dead White Men," Concept of 130

Denigration 185

Depravity 80

Disloyalty to Country 160

"Entitlement" 180

False Accusation 160

Frivolous Jurisprudence 190

"Ghetto Lit" 90

Grudge 70

Hatred of Authority 120

Ingrate 190

Insulting 160

Intimidation by Litigation 150

"Left-Wing" activism 165

Liberationists 185

Litigiousness 140

"Made Uncomfortable" 175

Malicious Slander 135

"Man/Boy Love 80

Misogeny 160

Narcissism 140

Naysayer 190

Neo-Fascism 160

Neo-Paganism 180

Niggardly 190

"Offended" 180

"One Wrong Justifies Another" 100

"Open Society" 180

Paranoid 120

Petulant 185

"Politically Correct" 190

Politically "Elite" 160

Protagonist 190

"Protest" suicide 70

Rulings (collective) 9th Circuit Court: Appeals Reversed by Supreme Court 185

Secularism 165

Sedition 105

Sedition disguised as "Art" 135

"Sensitive" 180

Sentimentality 190

Skeptic 120

Social Myths 180

"Stupid White Men" 130

Social Arrogance 155

"Superior" views 155

Treason 80

Turner Diaries 130

Ultra-Conservatism 150

Ungrateful 190

Victimhood 130

Victimology 160

Victim/Perpetrator (Model) 130-150

Vilify Legitimate Authority 120

"White Lies" 190

White Supremacist 160
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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From page 209:

Problematic Philosophies

"Academic Left" 180

Afrocentrism (Racism) 180

Anarchism 100

Atheism 165

Authoritarianism 180

"Critical Theory" (Marcuse) 145

Deconstructionism 190

Demonize 80

Dilectical Materialism 135

"End Justifies the Means" 120

Epistomologic Relativism 190

Eugenics 105

Fascism (Secular) 80

Fascism (Theocratic) 50

Fascism (Islamic/Militant) 50

Feminist Politics (Sexism) 185

Hate 70

Hedonism 180

Iconoclasm 175

Irresponsibility 195

"ism" (Suffix) 180

Libertarianism 180

Misanthropy 180

Nihilism 120

Pacifism 185

"Peacenik" (Politicization) 180


Philisophical Theories

Baudrillard, Jean 175

Caputo, John 185

Chomsky, Noam 135-185

Da Lauze, Gilles 190

Darrida, Jacques 170

Foucalt, Michel 190

Husserl, Edmund 195

Irigary, Luci 155

Kristeva, Julia 150

Kuhn, Fritz 195

Lacan, Jacque 180

Lyotard, Jean-Francois 185

Machu, Rigoberta 180

Marcuse, Herbert 150

Marx, Karl 135

Popper, Karl 185

Sartre, Jaen Paul 200

Singer Peter 195

Vidal, Gore 180

Zinn, Howard 200


Political

Far-Left 135-190

Far-Right 135-190

Far-Right Radical 80

Far-Left Radical 80

Revolutionary 100

Relativism 185

Reactionary 155

Pop-Sociology 165-210

Populism 200

Pythagoras (Ancient Greece) 190

Racism 110

Rhetoric 180

Ruthlessness 180

Slander 75

Social Relativism 185

Sophistry 180

Syncretism 195

Theocratic Totalitarianism 50

Vituperation 75

Xenophobia 185
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Science-Scientists

Bohm, David 505

Bohr, Niels 450

Boole, George 460

Burbank, Luther 450

Copernicus, Nicolaus 455

Curie, Madam Marie 505

Darwin, Charles 450

Edison, Thomas 470

Einstein, Albert 499

Faraday, Michael 440

Fermi, Enrico 455

Freud, Sigmund 499

Fuller, Buckminster 445

Galen, Claudius 475

Galileo, (Galilei) 455

Godel, Kurt 455

Halley, Edmund 460

Harvey, William 475

Heisenberg, Werner 485

Hippocrates 485

Jung, Carl 520

Kepler, Johannes 460

Mendel, Gregor 460

Maxwell, James 445

Newton, Issac 499

Pasteur, Louis 485

Pauling, Linus 450

Planck, Max 475

Rutherford, Ernest 450

Salk, Jonas 455

Steinmetz, Charles 455

Tesla, Nicola 460

Notice that Linus Pauling, Nobel Laureate and co-author with Hawkins of Orthomolecular Psychiatry, is included on the list. Plug? Wink

It is very difficult to break the 499 barrier of rationality and intellect. Notice that only a few scientists, or theologians for that matter, break 499. Could this be why science and religion have such a problem resolving the creation/evolution controversy? It will likely never be resolved at the level of intellect and reason alone. Jung is the highest scientist, and his "science" bordered on the mystical and focused on the spiritual.

"Jesus is my Lord and Savior" most likely calibrates around 485, the level of theology.

When John Paul II says that Christ is more than a prophet like Muhammed, more than a wise sage like Socrates, more than enlightened like the Buddha, He is the One True Mediator between God and man, he is speaking from a calibrated level of 570, which lies beyond the realm of theology, reason or intellect. This knowledge is Divine in origin. Smiler

Enjoy your sabbath! Enter into His courts with praise!

mm <*)))))><
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The trap of the intellect is covered in Chapter 13 of the forthcoming book Transcending the Levels of Consciousness: The Stairway to God
scheduled for publication January 2006.


Einstein and Freud both reached 499. 500 is a barrier to the intellect so it seems.

Michael
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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MM, it still almost sounds like you believe there's something to this more than just a measure of Hawkins' own unconscious perspective. I'll admit that it's fun to read the calibration numbers, but much along the lines of an interesting "parlor game," if you know what I mean. So where are you with this? It sounds like you're already looking forward to the next book.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hawkins in his last Sedona lecture did some clarification of calibrations.

I know to anti Hawkins people �clarifications� will sound like retractions, but not much you can do about that.


One major realization is that calibrations are effected by observation.

For instance a cat�s purr will calibrate at 500 LOVE but the purr itself is not really 500 all the time. It is only 500 when we observe it as love.


Kevin Pringle who moderates a Hawkins Yahoo forum did a summery of what was covered.

�He (Dr Hawkins) went on to another subject which I loved....the obsessive compulsive realist....HA! or as I have changed to an acronym...OCL's

He said he gets hit with tons of email asking him 'how come this
calibrates at 385 here and 380 there and wah wah wah' so he went on
to make the point that...the calibrations are not absolute, not
written in stone and are meant to give you an idea of the field of
energy that it is coming out of. Calibrations change all the time.
the calibration of your mother could change drastically if you are
holding her in mind, say, as a mother, as a woman, how you saw her in your teens, or your childhood, Hitler calibrated in the 400s before falling as did Napoleon....all those numbers will be different depending on the context in which its being observed.

When calibrating gorillas, there are high land and low land and all
types of different ones. So he said look...dont email me about it!!
its just to point you in the field where it comes from.

However this was a somewhat valid question when it comes to how the
torah calibrates so drastically different on different
recordings...but that is because there is the Torah how the jews of
yesteryear observed it how its observed now, how its observed in
different places and peoples....etc etc...

k testing itself calibrates at 600 so its not absolute Truth and
should not be taken so meticulously literal on the every digit.�

These are good points as calibrating is very misunderstood and Hawkins himself has contributed to this.

To Hawkins context is everything and I agree with that.

I�ll see if I can find something he has said on context.

For me calibrating is a tool. That�s all. A powerful one if used in the right context.

Michael
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For me calibrating is a tool. That�s all. A powerful one if used in the right context.

Okay, Michael. I�m going to play devil�s advocate, and I promise to be gentle. Wink What is that context? What exactly can one do with a Hawkins calibration? Does it slice? Does it dice? Does it make julienne fries? Or is it just for selling books? Inquiring minds want to know!
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Brad,

The proof is in the eating ��

Long before I came across Dr Hawkins I was using kinesiology for several years.

Once you get a handle on it, what it can do for you is nothing short of amazing. See my story at this link

http://tinyurl.com/cnz23

It�s the 11th post � The first sentence reads �

I realize this discussion has gone a bit cold �but I�m so pleased to see an interest in David Hawkins work.


Kevin Pringle puts it well �.

"K testing for instance. To the hard core linear ego, it is a bunch of crap. But instead of just poo pooing it, one can set the
intention "Where does my consciousness have to be to understand this" which sort of tells the universe that yes, I don�t get it, but that doesn�t mean it is not True. Please show me how I could understand this.

Its sort of a statement of humility as well.

Hope this helps."

Michael
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Re the above and the link
http://tinyurl.com/cnz23
Sorry its the 13th post which starts - with

Hi Mae,
not trying to change you mind on kinesiology, but here is a little story on muscle self testing and why it can be useful sometimes. Food for thought.
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, if two particles can know the state of each other from across the universe � instantaneously � then I suppose it's no more unusual than someone finding their diving card from among a bunch of boxes via muscle resistance. Thanks for the info, MM.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't know at this point if Hawkins will wind up in the trash bin of failed New Age gurus. My sense is that his motives are pure. What does he want?
He has money, he has a wife, he's made Who's Who and he had peace and quiet in Sedona until he started doing basically the same thing as Thomas Keating.
He really believes in this and wants to move spiritual psychology forward.

Not sure why I like him. It could be just a passing phase in my mystical adolescence and I'll outgrow it soon. Hawkins claims that reading his books or attending his workshop raises one's level of consciousness. I felt this last August and I'm feeling it again this August. I know it's highly subjective, but I feel it to be true.

Then again, I tend to place intuition over logic, which is why I find you all to be so helpful. Smiler

caritas,

mm <*)))))><
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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MM, I think it's fine to use AK to test one's unconscious attitudes about something, and maybe even as an adjunct to helping diagnose allergies and the like. To claim that it puts one in touch with some kind of source for evaluating objective truth is another matter, however, and that's my beef with Hawkins. I think the critique you linked to above blows that out of the water, as did some of our earlier discussions. There just isn't any kind of corroborating experimental evidence to backk that up, so one really does need to accept in faith that Hawkins results mean what he says they do. That's not simply an issue of intuition vs. logic, but belief vs. unbelief.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hawkins answers his critics and skeptics

The Skeptic


From the ancient Greek, skeptikos denotes the philosophy that truth
is unknowable and certainty of knowledge is impossible (as so stated
by the followers of Pyrrho). This observation is in agreement with a
basic premise of consciousness research, as stated in all of Dr.
Hawkins' books, especially Truth vs. Falsehood (2005).
As also pointed out by Descartes, the human mind, unaided, is unable
to differentiate res cogitans/interna (how things appear to the mind,
such as perception or opinion) from res externa/extensa (reality,
nature). Socrates made the same observation that `men seek only
the good but are unable to discern illusory good (appearance)from
essence (the real good)'.

The value of Dr. Hawkins' work is that a means of discerning
truth from falsehood was discovered that bypasses mentalization or
opinion, both of which are of the linear dimension and thus subject
to error. The system instead depends on the nonlinear characteristics
of the truth of consciousness itself that, like empty sky, is not
subject to linear limitation.

Whereas, operationally, skepticism has had benefits in revealing
false claims and foolishness, skepticism itself has often been
foolish, as demonstrated regularly by vocal denunciations of every
single important discovery in history, especially in the sciences
(medicine, physics, etc.) up to and including quantum physics. It is,
of course, also traditional (actually de rigueur) for skeptics to
deny the reality of the entire nonlinear paradigm of context as well
as Divinity itself. Thus, the skeptic is basically a relativist to
whom hermeneutics is apparently an unknown discipline.

If, as all skeptics believe, actual truth is unknowable, then their
own premises and arguments are also fallacious, and thus, they are
hung up by their own petard. That is exactly what consciousness level
160 denotes. (The Skeptics Dictionary calibrates at 160, as do the
critics of kinesiology.)

The basic requirements for the kinesiological test for truth is that
the questioners must calibrate at 200 or over, and the intention of
the question to be answered must also be in integrity and
nonpositional. Therefore, it is invalid to try to either prove or
disprove anything that is based on a biased premise. According to the
research reported in Truth vs. Falsehood, the critics of kinesiology
should get negative results. The fact that they do so confirms the
basic premise.

One reason why the level of truth of skepticism calibrates so low is
that it is merely a variant of nihilism (calibration level 120). The
skeptic also falsely claims to be an authoritative arbiter of truth
from falsehood, which is a wishful illusion. Kinesiology
calibrates at 600, the level of the emergence of the nonlinear
(context), which is not subject to the linear (content), and stems
from a totally different paradigm. The truth of content is a
consequence of context, which, in turn, is an expression of intention
(the Heisenberg principle). Notable is that ad hominem attacks also
calibrate at level 160.

Consciousness research is a developing discipline that has been used
successfully worldwide for decades by numerous study groups and tens
of thousands of people, as well as at the highest levels of foreign
governments when it was successfully utilized to offset an imminent
ballistic missile war. The upside of the method is that it allows for
investigation of aspects of life inaccessible to ordinary mentation.
It was also expected that the discernment of truth from falsehood
would not be welcomed by those aspects of society that thrive and
depend on falsehood for gain and benefit.

Misunderstanding of consciousness research arose from the fact that
its introduction in Power vs. Force did not state the strict
requirements for the kinesiological test method itself, i.e., (1)
both participants have to calibrate over level 200 (the level that
distinctly delineates truth from falsehood; (2) the intention of the
test has to be integrous and also calibrated over 200; and (3) the
proposition has to be made in the form of a statement and not as a
question. Thus, the test cannot be validly used for personal gain or
to prove or disprove a biased opinion or presumption but instead
requires a scientific detachment.

The original work was done with spiritually-oriented or na�ve test
subjects and children (as demonstrated in the video, Power vs. Force,
1995). The test was also demonstrated publicly to lecture audiences
worldwide. It was only later (around 1999-2000) that is was
discovered that for the test to work, the basic requirements
enumerated above had to be met when it was attempted by people who
calibrated at less than 200 and by those who tried to disprove its
validity with trick questions.

Because the essential information was not available initially, its
omission, led to misunderstanding and the negative results of
misapplication. The necessary requirements were specifically included
in subsequent books: The Eye of the I(2001); I: Reality and
Subjectivity (2003); and Truth vs. Falsehood (2005), as well as in
the forthcoming books, Transcending the Levels of Consciousness
(2006), and Devotional Nonduality (late 2006).

Unlike skepticism, consciousness research is not intended to prove or
disprove anything but merely to discern information not previously
available by mentation, reason, or supposition. Calibration mere
results in a number, the significance of which is inferred by
its location on the widely-known Map of Consciousness (Maps of
consciousness are the focus of upcoming presentations at Noetic
Sciences conferences with speaker Edgar Mitchell.)

Akin to consciousness research, the field of skepticism is also
devoted to discerning truth from falsehood. By comparison, however,
skepticism itself is limited by its dependence on the linear mental
domain about which skepticism itself is dubious.
The objectives of the skeptic could be better fulfilled by taking
advantage of the nonlinear technique by which the profound influence
of context can be identified. By analogy, one cannot utilize
Newtonian physics or differential calculus to try to prove or
disprove quantum mechanics, Einstein's Theory of Relativity, or
E=mc2. Skepticism needs the assistance of much higher knowledge to
keep up with increasing information that allows access to a
more expanded paradigm of Reality. As quoted from Time in "Cosmic
Conundrum,"
(Lemonick and Nash, Nov. 29, 2004), "Dealing with cranks is an
occupational hazard for most scientists�. Those who study the
cosmos�
tend to be bombarded with letters, calls, and emails from would-be
geniuses that insist they have refuted Einstein or devised a new
theory of gravity or disproved the Big Bang. The telltale signs of
crankdom are so consistent � a grandiose theory, minimal
credentials,
a messianic zeal � that scientists can usually spot them a mile
off."

Note that the calibrated statements in Truth vs. Falsehood are
bulwarked by 60 pages of references so as to provide a wider context.
Consciousness research has no investment in opinion and instead views
a specific numerical reading as one would a barometer, altimeter, or
temperature-gauge reading. The totality of the work stands on its own
rather than on agreement or external authority.

If mankind had been capable of discerning truth from falsehood and
were aligned with truth rather than politicized enthusiasms, all the
wars would have been precluded for every tyrant in history, up to and
including the present day, calibrating far below level 200. Thus, if
the author of the research has any leanings, it is that of preference
for truth over falsehood.

Overall, the consciousness researcher is sympathetic and in agreement
with the goal of skepticism to integrously discern the truth and
expose falsehood. The disagreement is only over methodology and level
of sophistication and accuracy. A study of skepticism itself,
however, does result in skepticism about skepticism. On the other
hand, it has revealed some really outrageous trends and therefore has
been of service.

None of the books on consciousness research are even about
kinesiology at all. It is merely a useful tool to confirm findings
that are obvious to integrous intelligence, with the exception of
historical information that would not be obtainable otherwise. The
pages on identification of malignant messianic narcissism would seem
to be more worthy of attention rather than irrelevancies. Public
recognition of severe fallacy would have saved the lives of over 100
million people in just this lifetime. To miss the forest for the
trees is indeed a serious limitation. The overall conclusions would
obviously stand on their own without verification by kinesiology,
which is merely a way to confirm what is obvious to inner wisdom.
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Akin to consciousness research, the field of skepticism is also
devoted to discerning truth from falsehood. By comparison, however,
skepticism itself is limited by its dependence on the linear mental
domain about which skepticism itself is dubious.
I reject the notion that reason is merely "linear," as the article suggests; reason can and is very much in-formed by intuition and is also capable of learning from emotion. It's also something of a "straw-man" argument to suggest that anyone who disagrees with Hawkins is a skeptic when it comes to truth. I'm not a skeptic, and I do believe we can approach knowledge of the truth. What I'm skeptical about is that Hawkins method gives us "truth." I maintain there's a distinction between truth and the unconscious attitude which AK measures.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
"What I'm skeptical about is that Hawkins method gives us "truth." I maintain there's a distinction between truth and the unconscious attitude which AK measures"
Valid point, however as Lou Fournier Marzeles a Hawkins forum moderator puts it

quote:
�The findings and calibrations in the book do not represent the author's opinion. They represent his research. There is no opinion here to take issue with. One may find reactions occurring in regard to the research, but it's important not to assign such reactions to differences of opinionation.�
All well and good but if you are sceptical about kinesiology research and if one believes anything that has been researched by Hawkins is his opinion only, this argument falls over anyway.

Back to square one. !! Eeker

Michael
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Michael from Sidney, (Or is it Sidney from Michael)
Wink Thanks for your help with this, as I do not articulate Hawkins well, or communicate it to others
as well as I would like, but feel that he has moved
consciousness "research" forward. How does law enforcement stack up?

United States

Federal 205

State 250

Local 305

International

Interpol 205

Scotland Yard 210

Why do the bad guys and terrorists get away? Could be the answer right there.

There is a note in the back revealing much more accurate results if the measurement is taken by someone between 460-480, which leaves at least 90%
of us out, I'm afraid. Frowner

Here is a representative interview with Dr. Hawkins: http://www.newconnexion.net/ar...e/09-04/hawkins.html

And a yahhoo discussion group devoted to Hawkins' research:

http://www.level-of-consciousness.org/


A Nobel Peace Prize winner(1962) and Nobel Chemistry Prize winner (1954) and co-author of Orthomolecular Psychiatry with David Hawkins, M.D.,P.H.D.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling

Another mystery is that David Hawkins and Ken Wilber seem to be completely unaware of each other. Aren't they both related to Krishna? Wink

The Ken Wilber open discussion forum @ Shambhala has several threads on Hawkins in progress:

http://forums.shambhala.com/cg...l?Cat=&Board=kw_open

More than enough grist for the mill...

caritas,

mm <*)))))><
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"The findings and calibrations in the book do not represent the author's opinion. They represent his research. There is no opinion here to take issue with.

Then I assume that Hawkins� numbers represent an average of dozens if not hundreds of test subjects including conservatives, liberals, black, white, men, women, Americans, Europeans, Asians, Africans, New Zealanders, Fiji Islanders, young, old, rich, poor, educated, uneducated, etc., etc., etc., etc. If not then we�re simply looking into Hawkin�s subconscious opinion of things. If he is God then that opinion is going to be quite objective.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Kevin Pringle who moderates a Hawkins Yahoo forum did a summery of what was covered. . .


Is this the group that wouldn't allow discussion of that well thought-out critique? Wink

Micheal, I can guess that you're disappointed that I and others haven't gotten excited about Hawkins research and findings. My exchanges with others on similar threads on this discussion board haven't done much to encourage me in that direction. But, just to reassure you that I'm not completely close-minded, I'll summarize for you what I've done:

1. I've read all the posts which you and others have written and have considered what you had to say.

2. I've visited the web site of Hawkins' radio broadcasts you recommended and listened to a couple of the interviews.

3. I researched AK and read extensively about what it can and cannot tell us.

4. I've read reviews of Hawkins' books on the Amazon.com web site.

5. I've applied principles of critical thinking to Hawkins' approach and found a couple of factual innacuracies and a major logical fallacy. (That doesn't bode well . . . )

6. In light of all of the above, I've tried to clarify what AK can tell us, and what it can't . . .

------

My main point, here, is that I think this kind of approach is far more reliable and responsible in getting at the truth of things. Our human reason is the faculty given to us by God to help us to comprehend truth, and it is not a narrow, linear computer-like operation as Hawkins' characterizes it. Reason IS our spiritual intelligence, and it is informed by intuition, imagination, sensory and emotional experiences. Hawkins sets an arbitrary limit on the competence of reason, thus immunizing himself and his (highly calibrated) writing from rational critique. To criticize AK and some of the assumptions in his work is thus invalidated from the start, and one is left, instead, with the "superior wisdom" of one's own micro-motor intelligence, which is thought to somehow be onto objective truths beyond the realm of authentic rational inquiry.

I know that Hawkins is an esteemed scientist and a good man, but he doesn't really seem to understand philosophy or theology, or else he doesn't have much use for it. What he proposes as an alternative is ultimately de-humanizing, however, reducing human spiritual knowing to operations indistinguishable from "divining" for wells. It is a small step from here to the occult.

But the biggest fallacy of all is that he is proposing a system which seems to provide a means of knowing that is "scientific" and "objective" when there's absolutely no way to test what ultimately turns out to be matters of opinion. That one is required to place a great deal of faith in this approach and system also seems to escape him. There really are matters of belief on the table, here, for Hawkins is just as incapable of "proving" the validity of his system as I am proving that Christ rose from the dead. So it turns out that Hawkins' followers really are "believers," of sorts, and highly committed ones, at that. That they are also unwilling to discuss critical arguments suggests something closed and almost cultic, imo.

Careful, Michael . . .
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I still want to get 500 envelopes with vitamin C and another 500 with Sweet&Low and watch half of the audience go "weak" and half "strong" without knowing what is in the envelopes. That's a neat trick however it's done. Smiler
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Since we're talking about chemical substances and not opinions, there, it's possible that the body's electromagnetic field can indeed pick up on the differences and translate that into muscle resistance. Calibrating the bible, philosophers, etc. is another matter, however. Wink
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Phil,

I am not about getting people excited by Hawkins work.

�but I do get excited about well thought out criticism which this forum provides. Smiler

This is not common out there is internet forum land. Confused

To be honest I can�t even get Hawkins devotees excited about useful applications of his work �Seriously!!! Eeker Eeker

For example I did a piece on what it would take to get Iraq to a workable democracy. I used Hawkins Map of Consciousness, calibrations and historical contexts to extrapolate possible workable steps to achieve a sustainable meaningful democratic system for that war torn country.

After two weeks research and a very well written critique (ok my opinion) I posted it on a Hawkins forum to open it up for discussion.

I got hardly bites from the Hawkins �fans� I wouldn�t even mind if someone shot my findings down with well thought out criticism. I don�t take it personally.

I later found out by private emails from the moderator I was lucky to even get it on the forum.

I have my theories�

My two pet ones are ��
1/ Most Hawkins based forums are well entrenched in the GREEN meme (Spiral Dynamics)

2/ Misunderstandings regarding kinesiology and how it applies to Hawkins work.

I�m not too harsh on forum moderators as discussions can quickly degenerate into big slanging matches which serve no useful purpose, even on so called �spiritual� based forums.

I feel well informed meaningful debate is a narrow path sometimes�� Wink Wink


Thanks

Michael
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi mysticalmichael,

It�s Michael from Sydney �.(down-under) Smiler Smiler

Hawkins is aware of Ken Wilber. Wilbers book �Sex Ecology and Spirit� is cited in the bibliography of Hawkins PhD thesis � Qualitative & Quantitative Analysis and Calibration of Consciousness

Also someone asked if he was aware of Wilber at one of his public lectures. He said he was and thought highly of his work.

quote:
�There is a note in the back revealing much more accurate results if the measurement is taken by someone between 460-480, which leaves at least 90%of us out, I'm afraid�
I must have missed that one. I found that amazing. Eeker

In November 2004 well before Hawkins new book was available, a friend of mine who has also done kinesiology training did some research regarding what level of consciousness one would have to be to calibrate accurately.

We have found the Tester needs to be 461.5 LoC or
higher and the Testee needs to be 484.5 LoC or higher before accurate calibrations can be obtained

I posted the results on a forum under �Calibrating � what makes it work.�
http://tinyurl.com/c9r9d

Hawkins always claimed that one has to be over 200 before one can even do any kinesiology �.I always suspected calibrating while using kinesiology required a much higher level of consciousness to be accurate.

��.and yes your absolutely right �.that eliminates 90% of the population who can calibrate with any accuracy. Only 51% of the population of the USA is over 200.

Michael
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Sydney  | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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