Aviela, I don't think that you can ask stupid questions, you are a very awake person.
Thanks for the love, Tucker, and back atcha.
That's a thought-provoking reply you share above, especially about how a path becomes diluted over time. It seems that's happened, to some extent, with Christianity's splintering into many groups, each asserting that it is most faithful to the Gospel. For over a thousand years, however, we were one tradition, with the Roman Catholic and Orthodox eventually drifting apart for various reasons.
From what you've shared so far, it seems that Shiva had a strong influence on you. How did you come to meet him in the first place, and how many years have you known him?
I met Shiva ten years ago. When I decided that I wanted to study the "yoked to God" experience that Hindu yoga said was their goal, the first thing I had to do was find a Master to study under. Because Jesus was already my master I asked Him to teach me yoga (union with God). So for twenty-eight years and thousands of hours of meditation Jesus and the Holy Spirit were my teachers. After twenty-eight years I had reached the bliss level of things and was experiencing temporary samaddi with God (which I didn't know what it was and I considered it a nuisance). It was then that I figured that I was a yogi and knew all there was to know. Not ! I had a talk with God and Jesus about it and the next thing I knew Yogananda's Babiji and Shiva showed up in my kitchen (never in my wildest imagination did I think that they even existed and were actually real). Being a steadfast Christian I thought that the demons were after me. After they got me calmed down a bit, we talked for a while and then Babaji stepped me into permanent samaddi with God the yogi way. As it turned out I had already achieved temporary samaddi with God (which was the part I thought was a nuisance) and would have drifted into permanent samaddi eventually anyway. That was ten years ago last February. From that time I have been studying "yoga science" under Shiva and downloading God (samaddi) under the auspices of the Holy Spirit.
One can download God and not be a Christian and if one feels that this process is just themselves waking up, then they become "self realized". If one is a Christian, then they reach a point where God is a loving child playmate with whom one is exploring the wonders of God's reality with as a child of God.
Thanks for the response, Tucker. I understand somewhat the different kinds of experiences you're alluding to, and think this has more to do with a "going deeper" into union with Christ than, say, being saved, which you already knew. I've heard others share something like this -- that they were drawn to Eastern meditative disciplines to help deepen their surrender to God; one guy even told me Jesus appeared to him in a dream and encouraged him to study Buddhism. Another woman told me in her prayer she was given a vision of a book by Jung, whom she'd never heard of, and this started her on an inner journey that bore good fruit. So, from a Christian perspective (as I understand it), one can be saved but not in a very deep state of union with God. We've accounted for this in various teachings about "stages" of spiritual growth, but these haven't really taken into account the kinds of states of consciousness that Buddhism and Hinduism are about. Personally, I have no problem with Christians practicing Eastern disciplines, but I echo Thomas Merton's caution that one needs to know what one is doing and why. It sounds like you've been able to keep first things first with Christ as your lord and master.
I don't know quite how to understand the visitation you had from Babaji and Shiva, but I do believe that you had such an encounter. Maybe understanding the "how" of this (vision, apparition, etheric manifestation?) isn't so important; lots of Catholics have had encounters with Jesus and Mary (who at least have resurrection bodies) or saints (who do not yet have resurrection bodies) and the proof is to be found in the pudding of how it affects their lives.
That's pretty much how we've talked about "enlightenment" on this board -- at least the best-case scenario for it.
True reality is made up of an almost infinite number of dimensions and we are using a language that was/is designed to explain things in a four dimensional reality. When God shares His reality with one, things quickly get beyond a four dimensional reality and a language that was designed to work in a four dimensional reality fails when one tries to share with others what God is sharing with them. The how and the why and the wonders of it all quickly get beyond language.
The "going deeper" into the union with Jesus is the other part of Jesus' gift, the problem is, "How does one share that with other people that may be interested in that part of Jesus' gift?" Or, in a lot of cases, have inadvertently stepped into that part of the gift and have no idea what is going on?
"I am in the Father and the Father is in Me and I am in "you".", Jesus said. "This is my body and this is my blood, eat them and drink them.", Jesus said.
Jesus can appear before you and He can also appear inside of you. When He appears inside of you, your mind, body, heart, and spirit become as His as a gift to you. "Love the father with all of your mind, body, heart, and spirit." Jesus said.
The "going deeper", into the union, with Jesus, our Christ.
"Ask and ye shall receive."
Hmmm....What made you want more than Jesus and the Holy Spirit, Tuck?
It seems to me the Father God is so respectful of our free will, He will allow us to pursue any of our desires--even if they are not in accord with His plans. Your story above reminds me that we can get what we wish for, but we don't always like what we get. Jesus did not go after the rich man. The Father does not prevent the prodigal son from squandering his inheritance.
Several years ago, I attended a 7-day intensive of a famous, high-powered yogi. (I wrote about it on another thread). He professed to know "yoga science." In fact, "yoga science" was in the title of the talk he presented at Pfizer Corporation to a standing room only audience where I first saw him. I was a newly born-again Christian, so I would pray for protection before the statue of the Holy Mother, which was located outside the church where the intensive was held. He seemed really brilliant to me and I wanted to know what he knew. I fancied myself a yogini who loved Jesus. I was enthralled with wanting to have the knowledge that this "master" of "yoga science" had. I think it was the second or third day that this guy appeared to me one night, like a dream. He presented to me the offer: you, too, can have all the knowledge of the yoga science that I possess! I did not take the offer and he disappeared.
Shasha, you have missed my point. What I wanted was to put the yoga folks out of business. I had no other goal. That has now been done. Hindu yoga is now obsolete and can not compete with, "The Deeper Union with Jesus". "They will do miracles, but you will do greater miracles.", Jesus said. You can not invite the body of Christ to physically step into your body and not be changed in a most wondrous way. "Ask and ye shall receive."
"When two or more gather together in My name, I will be there.", Jesus said. When you and the presence of God that dwells within you are gathered together in the name of Jesus Christ, then Jesus is there. When you and the presence of God that dwells within you are not gathered together in the name of Jesus Christ, then Jesus is not there. "The Deeper Union with Jesus."
Oh, pardon me. Far from being a distraction or a misstep, you are saying the Father answered your prayers to study yoga with Shiva. And that God willed that your encounter with Shiva and study of "yoga science" enabled you to be an instrument unto making Hindu yoga obsolete. Is that right-ish?
Shasha, you are twisting my words. God allowed me to do what I wanted to do. And one could even go so far as to say that He even helped me do what I wanted to do. But one does not have to say that. Besides Shasha, what I have posted does not mean anything. This message board is a back water place on the internet and this topic will eventually go down into message board history and be forgotten. And because of the title of this topic and it's description, it will never show up in a Google search. Worry not Shasha, what is posted in this topic will never effect your life or the life of anyone else.
Phil has given me permission to leave.
May you and your loved ones be blessed and prosper!
I'm really not meaning to twist your words. Please help me understand. Phil asked how you met Shiva. I am following up on your story in answer to his question. I'm puzzled by how you understand the transition from 28 years of studying yoga with Jesus as your primary teacher to Shiva and Babaji showing up to become your teacher. It sounds like you wondered it they were demons, but were persuaded by them that they were legit.
It sounds like you wonder if God even helped that process along, maybe. Clearly, he allowed you to do what you wanted, which was to more perfectly learn all there is to know about being a yogi. And your goal in this learning was to keep people from being misled into thinking God could be found through yoga. When you added that your goal of putting Hindu yoga out of business was achieved and you quoted Jesus on "you will do greater miracles," I guessed you were suggesting that God brought about this achievement/ miracle through you. Is this what you're referring to my twisting your words?
I've been with SP for several years because I believe it's a supportive and helpful ministry. And I believe your testimony about Jesus being the perfect path to God is important to share, especially in the context of your extensive experience with Hindu yoga. Sharing that samadhi feels like a 'nuisance,' for instance, is quite a departure from yoga's teaching. But it's similar to my take on samadhi as a supernatural anesthetic which actually prevents, not encourages, holiness. So in my small way, I guess I'm also working to making Hindu yoga obsolete.
So I don't know what you mean by "Worry not Shasha, what is posted..." I hope you don't devalue your contributions to SP. For myself, SP exchanges with others have helped me to sort out my strange supernatural experiences, what I believe about them, and to neither devalue nor over-value my contributions. Ultimately, I think you and I both want to bring Glory to our Lord Jesus.
Ooops. Looks like we cross-posted.
Peace to you, too!
Shasha, it does not matter anymore, what has been done has been done. It is now time for me to put everything but my love for Jesus behind me and get on with my life. I got to do what I wanted to do and now it is time to go do something else.
May you and your loved ones be blessed and prosper!
That's a great attitude, Tuck. God's Light lead you.
Yes, God can come to us in many different ways
Sorry you've left this little forum.
I enjoyed the conversation very much and
find your experiences to be very valuable...
and fun too! Though I would probably be
scared out of my wits... I would love to talk
with a 1000 year old spirit one day....as long
as he/she was nice and I don't think God would mind at all
I think he'll be back, aviela, but who knows when. I've let him know that he's always welcome, and a lot of fun to dialogue with.
Hi Phil, look what I have found. I have no memory of doing this . I left because the bottom dropped out of my life and everything that I had loved for over thirty years became gone overnight, except my wife of course, God bless her. Everything started to fall a part in the middle 1990's because my mother started slipping into dementia, which seems to run in the female side of my mother's side of the family, and nobody in my family would help or even admit that it was happening. By 2012 I was becoming a basket case and from there things became pure hell for the next four years. When my mother's estate was settled my wife and I received enough money to buy a small house. From there I spent the last year and a half working my way through and out of, for the most part, traumatic shock syndrome and depression. And I never could have done it without Lord Jesus and my wife and all of those years of meditation and meditative prayer. And now I am back because of that email that you sent everybody. That and Jesus suggested to me that I return because it would be good for me. And I always liked you.
Phil you said that I would be back and I am. That is amazing because I never thought that I would ever be on another message board again. For a lot of years I have been/was researching a book with the working title, "The Psycho-Social Dynamics of a Successful Message Board." After about twenty or more years of research, for the most part day in and day out, it became obvious to me that over the long run, for a bunch of reasons, that it was not possible. From there I just lost interest.
Apparently Phil, you have suggested that I write a book on my experiences back in the old days as well as recently . Humm? I will have to put some serious thought into that suggestion.
For the last few years I seem to be showing some of the symptoms of Parkinson's Disease, which is part of the reason I am studying the relationship between my foundation personality programming and my physical body. And after these last few years I have finally found a meditation that turns back on the part of the brain that my foundation programming is shutting down. And it turns out that what this meditation does is to energize the first energy shell that is around the body. The shell that is closest to the body. The energy shell that an uncontrolled Kundalini attack starts to shut down if it causes the mind to slip into the panic side of things. So anyway I am playing with it and the meditation really makes me feel better. It turns this energy shell a soft white sky blue color. A pineal gland phenomenon. Which is funny because I have always been trying to solve the problem by studying the pituitary gland side of my nervous system. The part that starts to shut down when you get various types of dementia. I have to research Parkinson's Disease and see what science has to say about it and see if it correlates with what my meditation is doing.
Well it is time for my wife and I to go eat dinner and watch tv. "Yea!" Did you know that the word "Yea!" creates a positive brain chemistry environment? At least for a moment
I had forgotten about this as well, Tucker, though not about your earlier contributions to the forum.
So sorry to hear of your mother's dementia and passing. My mother also died of Alzheimers after a long and steady decline. She was in LA and I was in KS through those years, but there were my dad and other family members to look after her. I did go to visit several times a year, and it was always a difficult thing, to see this woman who'd been so vibrant, intelligent and holy slowly erased away. As with your family, this seems to run on the female side in ours as well, but one never knows. I try to do all the things encouraged for Alzheimers prevention, which usually turn out to be just basically taking care of oneself.
Re. a successful message board: my spiritual director has told me many times that the most obvious sign of a spiritually mature person is courtesy. I have been on message boards where it is sorely lacking, and that has been the case here as well, at times. Being the admin, I can delete posts and ban people who are too rude, and there have been a few through the years. But, mostly, participants have been courteous, even those undergoing struggles, and that says a lot about them as people.
I look forward to hearing more about your investigations into brain function, meditation, etc. I've been stuck for years with a few "thorns in the flesh," as Paul called them, but have figured that's just all part of the cross and something I need to strain against to grow. Sometimes they "lift" and I am so amazingly well that it's unbelievable. These phases don't last long, but it's surely good when they come.
Good to have you back. Yea!
Well Phil, things just got real interesting . My symptoms fit and my conclusions as to cause perfectly over lap what science knows about the disease. They do not know the cause because there doesn't seem to be a measurable organic cause. It just starts to happen for no reason. And depression and anxiety are always associated with it. What is interesting is that I get to explore it from the inside out and the effects of changing one's broken foundation programming which causes a shut down of the body in one or more ways and the waking of things up with the conscious mind. I get to explore things up close and personal . I am excited about this! You would think that it would depress me but it doesn't. Because this is yogi stuff and I get to apply information that nobody else has with myself as the guinea pig. Way to cool!
Thank you Phil for your best wishes, they are appreciated.
Sorry to hear of this diagnosis, Tucker. You surely seem to have a good attitude about it!
Love and prayers, and keep us posted.
Thank you Phil, you are very up lifting in my reality! People come to your website for help and I have come to the realization that I have also . Who knew . What is funny is that there is not much anybody can do to help me. I am the only one that truly knows what my problem is and how to solve it. Right now I am having a full blown panic attack. I am a basket case this morning. I am running the conscious mind's "on" switches to counter what is being shut off and am trying to stay ahead of the gasses that are building up in my stomach. There really is no valid reason for me to be having a sever panic attach. I have been in a controlled state of panic for the last three days and yesterday things went really well and I thought that I had gotten a pretty good handle on things, but this morning the bottom just went out of things. Humm?
It is very therapeutic, for me anyway , to be able to share with someone what I am experiencing. Phil you bring up an interesting concept, "the thorns of the flesh." My first response to the situation that I find myself in, because of the childhood programming that I got from my mother in early childhood, is to be angry with God and Jesus. My subconscious mind is in a rage at Those Two. But, I am not. My subconscious programming is constantly attempting to destroy my relationship with God and Jesus and to blame Them for the problems that my subconscious programming is actually causing. The whole thing is an insidious program that a lot of people have with there being a lot of versions of it.
And no matter what version one has this program over time starts shutting things off that are physical and/or mental. And it does all of this without permission from the conscious mind. And it uses the fight or flight response that is located in the lower hypothalamus region of the brain. With the understanding that if fight or flight is not possible, you go into shock and the physical and mental start shutting down. "Kunalini"? If the shock is great enough the Kundalini loses it's ground in the lower chakras and starts up the spinal column shutting down everything thing as that ground goes by them as it goes up the spine until it reaches the Pineal gland where it then exits out through the pineal gland into the spirit realm. Or the upper back part of your head if one is watching. Now, if you want to have an out of body experience you use this same system but keep a solid ground so that you can come back at will.
In the case of degenerative diseases this ground moves up the spinal column slowly. The reason for this is that most people go through cycles of anger and this anger keeps the Kundalini grounded in the lower parts of the third chakra. The area below the belly button where the adrenal glands are. The problem is that the program cycles between fight or flight with flight not being an option (you experience bouts of a hopelessness feeling) which then causes the Kundalini to become un grounded in the power center (the lower part of the third chakra) and continue its way up the spine. Which is why the two lower chakras physically quit working first. Legs and sex. If a person could be angry all of the time without cycling into the flight is not an option response they could can live a long time. Yes they are in a wheelchair but they would be alive. But most folks can not do that because the program keeps bringing them back into a hopeless mind reality causing the Kundalini to lose its ground. It is normally the angry people that live the longest, until they quit being angry. Now here is what is interesting, the next chakra is your heart center and immune system (the thymus gland). If there is something that you love to keep the kundalini grounded in the heart shakra that also can keep you alive longer.
The problem is battling the hopelessness cycle. Because the program is going to be constantly trying to explain to you that everything is hopeless. This hopelessness is also what shuts down, usually over time, the different parts of your brain because there is no reason to use you brain anymore. Along with that is that the reward system that gives your brain chemicals as a reward that make you feel good is also shut down because your progamming no longer gives you permission to give your brain a positive brain moment. So the nerve bundle that routes that signal permission to the front and back part of the brain begins to deteriorate and die. I love that part who knew. Luckily you can activate those parts of your brain with your conscious mind. The front parts of your brain are activated when you feel excitement or are excited about something. The back part of your brain is activated when you feel like you are wearing the little Jewish beeny type hat or some version of a ponytail. Normally our automated programming gives that area permission to receive reward chemicals, but feelings of hopelessness shuts down both the front and back reward chemical permission. Stimulating them consciously, in spite of the way you feel, helps to keep that nerve bundle and the front and back parts of brain functional.
to be continued......This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tucker,
So sorry to hear of these bouts of panic and hopelessness, Tucker. As you note, sometimes there's only so much the conscious mind can do to counter those very deep programs and the emotional experiences they trigger. It sounds like you're coming to amazing insights into how all this works, as your meditation experience enables you to observe the phenomena without identifying with it or get caught up in it. It is almost like you are describing something of an "owner's manual" of the brain! We could all use one of those!
That fight-or-flight response is one we inherited from our mammalian ancestors, and it's hard to rein-in, even in the best of circumstances.
Thank you for sharing your insights with us. Prayers. . . .
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