quote:

Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:
Hi Tucker ,
ok, let me be the one asking the first question:

Back to the very basics. You say there exist TWO kinds of kundalinis, a female one and a male one. And then you talk of a "balanced" kundalini. I m still confused by this concept.

- So what is this "balanced kundalini". Is it a combination of the male and female k ? Equaly weighted 50:50 ?

- When this balanced k is arising, does it go up the sushumna nadi only?

- Which nerve are the male and the female kundalini going up? The male k going up pingala only, and the female going up the ida nerve only ?

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Good start, Bliss.

And thanks for starting the discussion, Tucker. There just aren't many people who've gone deeply into different religious traditions and can speak from experience about similarities and differences.

I'd be interested in hearing sometime what prompted you to study yoga, and what were some of the different kinds you learned.

quote:

Phil, I explored things in pieces over a thirty-eight year period (practically to the exclusion of everything else that one would call normal life). Over time these pieces came together as a whole picture and once this whole picture came together I became an advanced student of a lot of different things at the same time.

quote:

Now, when one has brought up "consciously" both the light airy kundalini and the heavy rope kundalini, ideally intertwined, to the center of the brain (to the area in front of the forehead with front kundalini) they will have achieved a centered balanced kundalini.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

quote:

Phil, I explored things in pieces over a thirty-eight year period (practically to the exclusion of everything else that one would call normal life). Over time these pieces came together as a whole picture and once this whole picture came together I became an advanced student of a lot of different things at the same time.

(1)That would be the executive summary, I presume? Could you summarize as well what you learned during this time?

- - -

quote:

Now, when one has brought up "consciously" both the light airy kundalini and the heavy rope kundalini, ideally intertwined, to the center of the brain (to the area in front of the forehead with front kundalini) they will have achieved a centered balanced kundalini.

That's really what "wants" to be happening in me as something of a default state of consciousness now, and your descriptions of left and right side fit very well. My own words for the right side are "sticky" and "sludgy," which is not something I can go around talking about with anyone. But it does seems to get "stuck" in places, especially in the right ribs -- probably requires a much more pure lifestyle than I'm providing. One difference is that I'm not aware of doing anything to bring up the energy, though it does become intensified and even somewhat balanced during prayer, especially when there is glossalalia (praying in tongues).

quote:

Originally posted by aviela:
Hi,
I have a question.
This male/female you are speaking of is different than the Male Female in psychology???
When we talk about 'grounding' energy on this site, I tend to think of it as 'rational' hence Masculine....does that correspond with male K??
and intuition is feminine...not a mixture???

Also, what would you say if one feels at times hot pin like sensations mostly on the right side of the head/crown....
is there a correlation to Masc or Fem k?
None of this is 'consciously' being guided...

quote:

Originally posted by Jacques:
Tucker I'm interested in your thoughts on the daoist approach to the kundalini energy.

In their view the uprising kundalini in the hindu/yogic model is incomplete by travelling up and then out the top of the head (in a sense wasting the energy) They suggest the energy should instead be brought back down in a circular pattern (the micro-cosmic orbit) - up to the crown and then back down to the base and up again to the crown.

By moving the energy in a circular pattern they propose a more balanced and healthy experience of this vital energy - what are your thoughts about this?

quote:

Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:
Hey, Tucker,
Thanx for this detailed view of female and male k rising. This could be already the first chapter of your book, that Phil suggested you to write. And you see, people keep you busy here!

You say there are 4 different paths that k can rise up. You wrote they are 1)at the spine (=sushumna), 2)in front of the spine, 3)in the center of the body and 4)in front of the body. Now i do not understand how this fits into the hindu picture of k. Where is ida and pingala in your view, the subtil nerves at the left and the right side of the body, that according to traditional k yoga are also paths to rise the k ?

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
See, Tucker, this discussion is already quite active. You have lots of experience and wisdom in the ways of energy and that can be very helpful to many, so I appreciate your interacting with us on these matters. I think, too, you've gained the trust of Christians on the board in the distinctions you've drawn between energy phenomena and the gifts of grace that come through Christ.

Re. your comments on Taoist energy circulation and physical immortality: I have my doubts about anyone being able to achieve physical immortality as it seems our body-mind system is so deeply out-of-balance and unstable as to be doomed to death. I'm not saying it's not theoretically possible, only that it's highly unlikely. We can surely benefit from their wisdom concerning matters of energy, however.

Sometime back I used the term "etheric hygiene" in reference to disciplines that work with energy and stated that just as we emphasize the importance of bodily hygiene, so, too, it can be appropriate to care for our subtle energy body. So long as one does not confuse this with the true focus of spirituality, I don't have a problem with it. It seems to me this is what much of Taoism and even yogic disciplines are about.

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
See, Tucker, this discussion is already quite active. You have lots of experience and wisdom in the ways of energy and that can be very helpful to many, so I appreciate your interacting with us on these matters. I think, too, you've gained the trust of Christians on the board in the distinctions you've drawn between energy phenomena and the gifts of grace that come through Christ.

Re. your comments on Taoist energy circulation and physical immortality: I have my doubts about anyone being able to achieve physical immortality as it seems our body-mind system is so deeply out-of-balance and unstable as to be doomed to death. I'm not saying it's not theoretically possible, only that it's highly unlikely. We can surely benefit from their wisdom concerning matters of energy, however.

Sometime back I used the term "etheric hygiene" in reference to disciplines that work with energy and stated that just as we emphasize the importance of bodily hygiene, so, too, it can be appropriate to care for our subtle energy body. So long as one does not confuse this with the true focus of spirituality, I don't have a problem with it. It seems to me this is what much of Taoism and even yogic disciplines are about.

Phil, I am also attached to a library with enough background to understand mostly what it is saying. In all honesty I could be accused of cheating

quote:

Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:
Tucker,
again one more question:
I think Phil has asked the same question about a week ago, and i want to second that:

Is there a way to shut down the k and prana flow that s permanently rising up in my body?

Not that i want to do that, on the contrary. But i KNOW there must be some methods to do that. I know that by my own experience:

First:
about two weeks after my k awakening (it was the hard way! About 30 years ago) i was a at the end of my physicle and psychic power and at some of these big shot ups of the k i was desperately crying as loud as i could: "Christ! Help!" (I didnt care any more what other people were thinking of me.) And the next moment the strenght of my k was diminished to a very low bearable volume.

second:
A few years later. In the meanwhile my spiritual master (an indian) has worked on my k progress and has given me this tingling at the base of the spine. (That was only a simple quick glance at the muladhara chakra, and then the tingling startet!, till now!) Half a year later, he did the same again, because the tingling has decreased in the meanwhile. At that moment i thought to myself: "Oh my God, now there will come again this extremely terrible heat in my body, that i had been experiencing in the meanwhile! But it s ok, seems that i have to go through this purification process again." My master was reading my thoughts (he always did that, that is the minimum that i expect from a spiritual master) , and immediately he shut down this tingling to the original level , again with a glance that lasted not more than half a second.
To shut this down again was surely an act of responsibiliy by my master. Later i found out that this heat can even kill you. (Bob May has writen here on this forum an OBE or a NDE experience connected with this heat.)


Tucker, I am telling these two eperiences here not for a general discussion, but only to show that it must be possible somehow to shut down the k by some procedure. Maybe you have an idea?
Thanx!

quote:

Personally I like the front energy one the best, it really wakes you up. It plays in the world of pure creative energy and is simple to work with. And it is the system used for what legend calls wizardry or sorcery. The kundalini is actually witch, warlock, and witch doctor stuff and was originally used to train those kind of people. Later on some folks came along and said that it could be brought into the Loving Divine, but based on my experience, I don't think so. It can be attached to the source, but then so can love. Only love energy attached to the source creates a door into the Loving Divine.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

quote:

Personally I like the front energy one the best, it really wakes you up. It plays in the world of pure creative energy and is simple to work with. And it is the system used for what legend calls wizardry or sorcery. The kundalini is actually witch, warlock, and witch doctor stuff and was originally used to train those kind of people. Later on some folks came along and said that it could be brought into the Loving Divine, but based on my experience, I don't think so. It can be attached to the source, but then so can love. Only love energy attached to the source creates a door into the Loving Divine.

It seems there are lots of different kinds of energy processes that are called "kundalini."

What I have been calling kundalini is a movement of energy that is awakened and intensified by prayer, especially glossalalia, and which has as its "goal" the frontal cortex and pineal (center of forehead), then outward and upward (the eyes even look that way -- about 45 degrees, as I think you noted). Then an energy center opens just beneath the navel, and there is a sense of energy moving from there down and through the lower chakras to nourish the body. Heart, mind and awareness are open -- a marvelous clarity of consciousness ensues, and lasts until dealing with the stuff of life throws things out of whack somewhat. This seems somewhat along the lines of Jesus' teaching that when the eye is single, the whole body will be sound (Mt. 6:22). The single eye seems to be related to an energized frontal cortex, pineal and pituitary; the mind is completely silent in this state. Completely! One is not a zombie, quite the opposite -- attentive, intuitive, compassionate.

It seems that what has been called kundalini is part of what's going on. It functions to enable the body-mind to participate more fully and integrally in a state of consciousness both awakened and ordered by the Spirit. That's how I've understood things and written about them. Not exactly "witch, warlock, and witch doctor stuff" in my experience, but I can see how some might want to try to use energies in the service of magic or metaphysical stuff. That's been part of the criticism I've received through the years -- that I've given a certain credibility to something that's from the dark side.

quote:

Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:
Tucker !
Thanx ! Now it rang the bell !

What Kundalini yogis call Sushumna, that in your picture is the midle of the spine.
What Kundalini yogis call Ida and Pingala, that is in your picture combined somehow in the path up in front of the spine. You call this the "death zone". (See Gopi Krisha, who suffered terribly because his k came up the "sun nerve" Pingala.
And additionally to the K yoga system there are these two paths in the middle of the body (i think, important for Reiki (Hara) ) ,
and this path up in front of the body.

quote:

"Each tradition says that theirs is the right way and there are many traditions."

Yes, that is the problem! There are also many kind of explanations, what kundalini and prana "really" are. None of them is really convincing. They all have internal contradictions, not to mention the differences among all this compeditive models. So finally i have given up to understand "kundalini",
and i mostly rely on my own experiences, and it is not a big problem for me not to understand this experiences in connection to any k-theory.

By the way, since about 30 years i follow the way of the heart, with love and surrender to God.
Kundalini is there only a bypoduct, but a very usefull and helpfull one.


Phil !

quote:

" Heart, mind and awareness are open -- a marvelous clarity of consciousness ensues,
... the mind is completely silent in this state. Completely! One is not a zombie, quite the opposite -- attentive, intuitive, compassionate. "

I know this. I think that is the same or a similar state of consciousnss i was talking about some time ago in my "Heart Meditation" thread. Allthough i get there in a little different way. (The k comming up and touching the heart and the _crown_ chakra) . In my case, additional to a completely quiet mind and an increased awareness, it is (i think!) some power of the heart that is flowing up with the k that gives me a feeling of expansion into the vast too.
This state of completely calm mind is amasing: it is even hard and it takes a big efford to produce a tought there, if you want that. The reason of this, according to my experience, is the k. When the k gets stronger, it really blocks the thoughts.
I always have to smile a little, when i read in some popular meditation books that one should concentrate on something to stop all the thoughts. That only works to some degree, but think it is impossible to erase all thoughts only with the power of the MIND. The mind cannot "kill" itself. But
the k can "kill" the mind. The k is much more powerful than the mind. In my awakening (about 30 years ago), the k didnt even erase all my thoughts, it erased also about 95 percent of my whole "ego system". That was very hard to bear, associated with some basic existential fears ( not to say: "fear of death") , but my struggling will power against this procedure had absolutely no chance against this concentrated k power. The k power there was comparable to the power of a big train running over small vegetable (me !!) ....

quote:

Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:

quote:

You are a testimony for the kundalini and I am not a testimony for the kundalini.

You re kidding !
come on !

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phil:
Tucker, it seems this discussion was a good idea, and I thank you for your generosity in interacting with those who are interested in hearing your perspectives on energies, faith, Christ, etc. All very interesting!

From what you've shared on this thread and others, it seems that you consider kundalini to be "sex energy" that can be raised up in different ways for different uses. This seems closer to the way Taoists talk about this energy than some of the yogic traditions (kundalini yoga, siddha yoga) that consider it to be Shakti, the divine mother and female consort of Shiva. Surely you ran into that during your decades of yogic experience. Do you think they're talking about the same thing that you are? If so, I wonder why they would use that kind of language?

Then there are those like Gopi Krisha and Susan (on another thread) who view it as "evolutionary energy" and some kind of universal, cosmic force. That, too, is conceptually quite different from "sex energy."

Personally, I've never been able to relate to the Gopi Krishna, siddha yoga, kundalini yoga ways of talking about all this, though "evolutionary energy" does resonate somewhat in that the energy does seem to empower and activate the frontal cortex, pineal and pituitary in new ways.

- - -

Whole other kind of question: what are you doing these days after all those years of yogic study?

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:

quote:

Originally posted by aviela:
Hi,
I have a question.
This male/female you are speaking of is different than the Male Female in psychology???
When we talk about 'grounding' energy on this site, I tend to think of it as 'rational' hence Masculine....does that correspond with male K??
and intuition is feminine...not a mixture???

Also, what would you say if one feels at times hot pin like sensations mostly on the right side of the head/crown....
is there a correlation to Masc or Fem k?
None of this is 'consciously' being guided...

Happiness is a good question. Good questions Aviela. The male side of the brain(Left) and female side of the brain(Right), the way that I am talking about them, correlates very closely to psychology. The problem with achieving a true balance between the two sides of the brain is that the imbalance is caused by one's personality programing. It is the changing of the flaws in one's personality programming that most people just shake their head at and walk off. And after thirty-eight years of this stuff I do not blame them a bit.

Aviela, I haven't ever thought about grounding being related to the male side of the brain ! But you are right! Grounding is ultimately to the physical and the physical is the male side of the brain. One is grounding their spirit (energy body) to the physical body. Aviela, you have opened up a whole new reality of understanding for me. The answer from the intuitive mind has to fit a set pattern framework some how, or the answer is useless, and it is the male side of the brain that defines set pattern realities. The male side of the brain and the female side of the brain have to work together or the intuitive mind can not be effectively used. The male side of the brain is the ground. Too cool!

The sensations that you are asking about could correlate with the male and/or female kundalini, they also could be caused be intestinal gas. Sorting out the things that intestinal gas causes is a nightmare.