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Jesus was sharp with the self righteous but there were no innuedos, no character assassinations, coming from His mouth for those who, like Tuck, are earnestly coming closer to Him, in their own time. A most blessed Easter to all of us sinners meeting at the cross--"Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner." | ||||
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What is funny is that I do not read pop's posts  so if nobody had said anything about what he had said I never would have known that he had said anything. Another thing that was funny was that pop's words were right out of the mouths of atheists talking about Christians almost word for word. Anyway, I love you guys and "happy Easter"! love, tuck | ||||
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Tuck, I'm glad you're here. And I'm glad Pop-pop is here, too. We all make mistakes in what we say sometimes. As James puts it in the Bible, "With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness...My brothers, this should not be." | ||||
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Thank you Ariel! While I am a newbe on this message board I am not going to read my Christian brother/sister "pop-pop's" posts. I am sure that brother/sister "pop-pop" is serving our Lord and Savior or there is some kind of ministry going on between you guys and him. I am here to hang out with other Christians and I am a newbe here, new to the psycho-social dynamics of this social group. Anyway I want to be here Ariel and my solve is to just to not read what brother/sister pop-pop posts, at least at this point in time. I hope that you guys do not consider me a failure as a human being because of that. just love, tuck | ||||
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All, Thursday I read on the news banner of a major TV network (Fox perhaps) that members of the parliament of Kryzyrystan had slaughtered that day 7 sheep in a sacrificial ceremony in order to ward off evil spirits that they felt were interfering with the procedures of their parliament. Last year I recall news from two Balkan countries (one may have been Romania) wherein government officials also were reported to have performed offerings of some form to appease some gypsy occultist who had, or was going to, put a curse on them. It boggles my mind as a Christian that such goings on occurred, and at official levels where these ceremonies were proposed, discussed relative to appropriateness, sanctioned and executed (thereby giving credence to the populace). Here were three news items I just happened to catch on the banner. So this is the 21st century?! Seems we are advancing backward in time; becoming more and more non-rational -- and in high places. The advances that the occult is making are startling and more widespread perhaps than we realize. Sometimes I think we have become that boiling frog of the reputed lab experiment. The church and society at large is under assault. If Christendom loses its salt through confusion and the acceptance of false teachings, then Christendom’s affect on society at large will be lost. This has been happening, and for the past few decades especially, with increasing force. On some fronts we are becoming more pagan and on others more atheistic and on others increasingly immoral. (On the latter, Web of Lies, a secular book by James Stewart bemoans the demise of the American judicial system because of the prevalence of lying and the acceptance of lies by courts, lawyers and jurists. He brings forth that the basis for our justice system is truth. No truth no justice. But he provides data on the extent of the loss of truth and the seeming inability to get anyone to pay attention (repent essentially). Phil, Regarding your thought that “psychic healing can be more of a natural gift than an occult practice WITH SOME PEOPLE” (capitalization mine); and that “They just "know" these things, just as others experience clairvoyance or psycho-kinetic powers WITHOUT HAVING CULTIVATED THEM THROUGH OCCULT PRACTICES.”: -- you have more insight into that, and to some degree I am open to such possibility given the capitalized text applies. But it is important to understand the caveats and to know when they are applicable. This is not so easy. In Acts 16: 16-18, Paul’s casting out of a clairvoyant spirit is detailed. Ostensibly her message was true: i.e. “These men are servants of the Most High God: they will make known to you a way of salvation.” So, one might believe her ‘fruits’ were good. But Paul discerned (by other behavior and a charism perhaps as well) that an evil spirit was the source, and consequently exorcised it. So this is not an easy read necessarily and certainly Paul had greater charisms than most of us. So we need to be very careful. All, We were discussing reincarnation. Tucker mentions in his post having solicited healing from an Australian woman who: “healed people who had physical problems THAT WERE THE RESULT OF PAST LIFE EXPERIENCES”. (ARUGULA!) Note that this was not a mention of a psychic-healer healing independent of belief in reincarnation, that is -- just a gifted person with paranormal abilities. Also note, that she mentioned Tucker’s old soul and addressed its history as to why he had had problems. This woman believed in reincarnation. Her witness as to the source of healing was not to the same God we believe in as Christians. This woman’s gift to Tucker had spiritual strings attached: the enticement to accept erroneous theory. So it was not for nothing after all – despite no monetary transaction. That post provided Tuck’s evidence in support of the theory of reincarnation. Also of note, is that Tucker mentions that he had solicited her healing. Soliciting healing from a person endorsing past life experiences is wrong behavior for a Christian. It is pursuing the occult. I believe that part of the reason for the advance of the occult is that we Christians have been too focused on our not being judged as judgers. We haven’t spoken up. The church has been assailed with numerous heresies over the centuries and really, would not have survived if its members had adopted a position of tolerance of people’s beliefs and opinions when they contradict the sound teaching of scripture and the church. Christians are called to be witness to the truth and to be abiders in the revelation of Jesus. Non-Christians can have all the opinions they want. Christians can’t. Christians have the revelation of Christ. Tuck, I have nothing against you. I don’t even know you. But I do reject your witness and its content. And, in truth, I believe your witness yields false teaching. Also, from what you have written in your posts, you have been involved with the occult. This is not rash judgment on my part, it’s judgment based upon your testimony. You point out your having the touched the belly of some spiritual entity and conversing with another. You bring up reincarnation and supply witness testimony in the form of healings you received. But, your posts do not evidence remorse or repentance of past occult practices but on the contrary they continue in arguing for acceptance of error. I was not endeavoring to assassinate your character, but rather to assassinate your involvement in the glamour of the occult, to make clear your error, and at the same time to preclude confusion among readers at SP that one can accept such teaching and engage in such practices and not sin against God’s first commandment. A Christian mystic, as you have said you are, would never knowingly pursue the occult. Any Christian involved in the occult should renounce his/her involvement, confess his/her sin, ask God’s forgiveness, and repent in all future behavior. (As with any other type of sin). So, in terms of discussing what you are ‘dealing with as a Christian on this message board’ I have discussed what you are dealing with. The women of SP have come to your aid with oils of comfort to heal the wound to your spirit that they believe I have inflicted. They believe that I have been self-righteous in my posting. They believe that you have repented and are in the process of returning to Christ and that I have wronged you. But why do you continue endorsing error? Why provide arguments in support of reincarnation? (You subsequently in two posts stated that you personally don’t HAVE to believe in reincarnation and that Christians do not NEED to believe in reincarnation EVEN IF IT MIGHT BE REAL; you do not express denial of its validity). Why mention the reality of the visitor spirits of the Hindus how you have been with them and know they are real entities because you touched them physically? By doing so, you endorse belief in them to others and witness to your own belief in them. You state also that Lord Shiva is (not was) your yoga teacher. If you have repented of your dealing with, and attraction to, the occult I have indeed misjudged you and ask your forgiveness, but I perceive no repentance from your posts. Rather your posts indicate that you are yet caught up in the glamour of all that. If your eye is your undoing you must cut it out. And you must do it in this life. There is no other. Now is the acceptable time – is what our Lord Jesus taught. If you continue to pussyfoot, your involvement in the occult may result in the assassination of your immortal soul. Better to enter heaven with an assassinated character than to lose your soul. Gail, Ariel, Perhaps I do need some time in charm school. But perhaps a snowball from me to Tuck may be beneficial. Mixed in among the aspects of what love is (as found in 1 Cor 13): is its verse 6: “Love does not rejoice in what is wrong but rejoices in the truth.” Is it wrong to attempt fraternal correction and to innuend that some consideration of Tuck’s posture might be in order? Pop-pop P.s. now there's a long post. | ||||
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(emphasis mine [Ariel]) Pop-pop-- I have to point out that Tucker didn't say Christians don't HAVE to believe in reincarnation. Your paraphrase of what you thought he said was just that--your interpretation of what you assumed he said. I have some familiarity with you, so I can read the good intentions behind what you say. Tuck has no way of reading what you "really" mean when you engage in name-calling, i.e. "Christian misfit". I do believe you mean well. But name-calling just shuts people down more often than not. I don't blame Tuck if he doesn't read your posts for now. If I were new to a group of people, and looking to Christians for some shelter from the sheer nastiness of some parts of secular society, I probably would avoid someone in that group who right off the bat used a label such as "misfit", instead of letting me figure out Christianity in my own time. | ||||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by pop-pop: Gail, Ariel, Perhaps I do need some time in charm school. But perhaps a snowball from me to Tuck may be beneficial. Mixed in among the aspects of what love is (as found in 1 Cor 13): is its verse 6: “Love does not rejoice in what is wrong but rejoices in the truth.” Is it wrong to attempt fraternal correction and to innuend that some consideration of Tuck’s posture might be in order? Pop-pop I read once that in the Body of Christ there are: Prophets, Priests, & Poets and that as members in His body we will vacillate in these roles... ( I am not undermining the real Priests) "Love never fails". "Speak the truth in Love". Let mercy & truth meet together & kiss. You know, what I know Pop-pop, the truth will set you free, but sometimes the truth hurts... So, I am wavering... When Tuck responded: "Your innuendo and character assassination "is" a gift to the healing process and much appreciated." I assumed that your words were indeed a mercy, because it sounded like he had a godly sorrow that was working repentance. You may well have been speaking the truth to Tuck in love not rejoicing in what is wrong. I reacted to your comment out of the space in myself that would feel ashamed if you had called me a misfit. With that said, I was very fortunate to have a prophet like person in my life, he was skilled at disrupting me, as I would go from him and wrestle over his remarks. His questions/insights often unnerved me but they pushed me deeper, he was curious & joyful too. I fall on the being too merciful spectrum (if is there such a thing) and I know I need to grow more of a backbone,  ( I think I am learning that from a few of the gals here.) So with that all said, No, I don't think it is wrong. Just very tricky on the internet because it is hard to read each other without seeing each others faces/bodys and hearing the tone. Now I need to go give Mom a shower... In His Grace Pop, Gail | ||||
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If I had thrown those kind of snow balls I would have been banned. But because pop is grandfathered in on this message board he can do that kind of stuff. And what is funny is that what he did say was what most everybody was thinking but to polite to say so. Ariel was the only one that caught that. And an other thing that is being thought but not said is that I do not belong on this message board. Ariel caught that one also. The problem is that as long as I do not break any written rules I will be allowed to be here. just love, tuck | ||||
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[quote]And an other thing that is being thought but not said is that I do not belong on this message board. Oh Tuck, I am sorry if my post made you feel that way. Not my intention nor my thoughts.. I cannot speak for anyone else. Just know I am a work in progress... Jesus loves You! | ||||
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Tuck, I am the only one with Admin. privileges here and I haven't banned anyone for a long, long time. There's been no problem with your posts or inquiries so far, and even Pop's somewhat confrontational posts above have been presented without attacking you personally. Newbies and veteran posters all have the same rights and privileges here, and all are held accountable to the same minimal standards you agreed to when signing up for the forum. No one is above or tenured from any of those. I found it unusual that your wrote, above: What is funny is that I do not read pop's posts so if nobody had said anything about what he had said I never would have known that he had said anything. I wonder why that is -- that you don't even read his posts when he's taken the time on several occasions to interact with you and give you feedback? Fwiw, I also confronted him above on something of the tone of his feedback to you, so it wasn't just ariel. You now note: And an other thing that is being thought but not said is that I do not belong on this message board. It's tricky business to presume to know what others are thinking, and I, for one, have not picked up what you're implying. Maybe you've had bad experiences on other boards; I can certainly understand why you'd feel rejected by a bunch of atheists, but you're welcome here. Just do know that when/if you share experiences or raise questions, it's "fair game" for people to interact with you about this -- even to press you on some of the issues, provided they do so respectfully. | |||
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Yes, that is a good point and an important clarification, Pop. Even if reincarnation were proven, it would seem that distance past-life readings would be a set-up for considerable delusion. I don't think, however, that Tucker was sharing this as an endorsement of reincarnation, especially given some of his other comments on this topic. In the other topic he started in the Lounge forum, for example, he seems to favor "genetic memory" as an explanation for the phenomena. | |||
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Tuck, Woah, slow down. That's not at all how I see things. I've been at SP for 4 years-ish. I see that this message board is for a wide range of people on the spiritual journey. It's not a "Catholic" board per se, though several of us are Catholic. Several, maybe just as many, who actively participate, are Christians, non-Catholic varieties. Furthermore, you don't have to agree with anyone else's thinking. There are no written or non-written rules about what you share. Of course, as you noted, there is a moral code that we treat one another with respect. And we don't look very kindly on those who come merely to disparage Christianity or the Catholic Church, those folks who want to teach what feels wrong to us, and are not open to learning. I can see how you'd be offended by Pop's comment, and I'd respect your decision to avoid him and/or our board. At the same time, he did offer further clarification on what he meant by the word "misfit" and provided some background on the whys of his thinking. Personally, I was looking forward to dialoguing with you about Siddha Yoga and my negative reaction to your take on lord shiva. You see him as loving, your yoga teacher; I see him as an anti-Christ. One of us is deluded and/or deceived. I'm OK with telling you more why I conclude this, which is based primarily on my supernatural encounters. See, I used to think it was cool to be a yogini who could love Jesus, chant the SY mantra, read the "Gospel According to Ramakrishna," swoon to Hare Krishna songs, consider the goddess the same as St. Mary, and have 'communion' with my Jesus friends--all in the same weekend! Plus, I was once SURE I had lived previous life-times...so I can relate to some of what you're saying. Was I a Christian misfit? ABSOLUTELY. Did I mind being challenged for my all-inclusive, theology-mushing, my personal-revelations-are-the-last-word-on-who-God is- mentality? Yes, and I had a lot of growing up to do...and I still do! Thank you, Jesus, for your ever-loving patience with us. I'm not saying that you're at the same place that I was, but just to share that you are welcome by me to stay and dialogue because I can relate to some of your 'mixed' experiences. Are you open to learning from us? | ||||
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Oh, I see that I just cross-posted with Phil, saying some of the same things... | ||||
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I love you Phil or I would not be here. Pop-pop is a message board personality that is great for creating posting credits, I actually love him also .Pop-pop as a grandfathered in member sets an example for what newbes can do and say. Pop-pop is a narrow minded bigot, I love him for that , he is good for post credits if handled properly. Anyway I am not here to fight. My wife just told me that one of the Catholic Hispanics that she works with said that because she (this Hispanic lady) is on birth control that she can not take communion and that she (this Hispanic lady) has three children and at this point in time can not afford another child.I have spent my entire life exploring "Protest"ant churches and have always loved the Catholic Church (probably from the experience of a bunch of other life times) so I am happy Phil that you allow me to be here to explore Christianity from the Catholic view point. I have always wanted to be a Catholic, it is just that things did not work out that way. At the same time the Lord works in mysterious ways . Anyway guys I m not here to cause trouble. I love everybody here and if I come across somebody that I do not love I will PM Phil about it on the hot track . Ok?just love, tuck | ||||
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Tucker, check out Shasha's thoughtful sharing above when you have a chance. There's no posting credits or status on this board, and no grandfathering. And Pop is relatively new here as well -- not even a year, I believe. He only has 90 posts so far, and you already have 75, so you're gaining quickly.
The Catholic Church does sanction natural (i.e. biological) forms of birth control and most dioceses teach the several methods for this approach. No one is forcing this woman to have another child. Additionally, many of our moral theologians would argue that non-abortive forms of contraception (condom, diaphragm) could be acceptable for couples who cannot do the natural methods and cannot afford more children. Birth control is a complicated topic, but one that we could discuss on another thread if you or someone else is interested. | |||
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Tucker--- SP is not a popularity contest, and that's one of the things I appreciate about this forum. Phil did in fact confront Pop-pop before I said anything, and as I said at the time, that action of his moderated my veggie-pelting of Pop-pop. I was not intending to defend you, but instead my intention was confront the name-calling. There's way too much of that on almost every other forum and comment section on the web. Now look, you've acted more unambiguously in labelling Pop-pop than he ever did to you. What's up with that??? | ||||
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In regards to confronting Christians who are open to the idea of reincarnation--- I don't believe in reincarnation. I don't believe in astrology in any form. I don't believe Christians or Jews (for that matter) who have respect for the the words of the Old and New Testaments should be anything but extremely, extremely cautious in possibly giving these doctrines a foothold in their lives. That being said, I clearly remember some years back that W.C. said he was willing to start giving SP more of a fair listening partly because discussions on reincarnation were going on here. In reading old threads, I've noticed growth towards orthodoxy in other people here as well, who originally wandered in with "Christianity plus" beliefs and hung around because Phil and others didn't react with fear to their beliefs. Letting go of those other crutches and learning to lean solely on Jesus can be a long process that takes as long as it takes. | ||||
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Tuck-- Before I go to sleep, I want to clarify this: in saying "I did not intend to defend you, but my intention was to confront the name-calling" I mean that I didn't see myself on your side--against Pop-pop--and now that you've been rude to him in return, I've haven't switched sides with the thought that I now need to defend poor Pop-pop from big bad Tucker. It isn't a thing about taking sides, or switching sides, or valuing one or the other of you more here on this forum. I'm glad you're both here and I hope you can get to a place of real love for Pop-pop, and he for you, likewise. Now that would be worth a genuine smile. | ||||
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Anyone---As a last clarification, I was not calling Pop-pop self righteous a number of posts ago when I said something about how Jesus handled different people in very different ways, being sharp to the self righteous. If it seemed that way, I'm sorry...that thought (meaning Pop-pop as the self righteous) was so far from my mind that I didn't think to explain more what I had in my own mind. | ||||
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What is funny guys is that because of what happened here pop-pop and I will become friends. just love, tuck | ||||
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Shasha I am done talking about Hindu yogi stuff there in nothing Christian about it and I thank God every waking moment for Jesus our Lord and Savior.just love, tuck | ||||
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Tuck-- I think it's always good when we can use conflict--since conflict will occur--to become more real. How did the Skin Horse from The Velveteen Rabbit say it?--I know Phil quoted a passage from that book somewhere here. Pop-pop is actually worth getting to know better. Maybe you and he can talk over a few virtual IPA's. | ||||
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Shasha, I can learn from Phil because he is cool, I know him, and he has a lot of experience. I do not know you well enough Shasha to know what you are teaching, so I can not honestly answer your question. just love, tuck | ||||
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Ariel, you are loved! Sorry I put you on the spot sometimes balance needs to be created in a social endeavor. But at the same time, things are doable because of your presence and love for all of us. just love, tuck | ||||
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I'm not offering any particular "teaching" of my own. I asked, "Are you open to learning from US" as in the collective, all of us at Shalom Place. In terms of the Hindu stuff, I hear you saying you're not interested in discussing that further. I'm OK with that. But are you merely dropping it for now from this discussion (which is your right) or have you renounced and repented for your involvement with the occult (including shiva)? Obviously, your choice, your business. At the same time, out of concern for you, let me share this. I see that you have gained some level of proficiency in manipulating energy, that's for sure. Further, it seems this happened with lord shiva's help as your yoga teacher (he is allegedly the yoga master right? you called on him and he showed up to be your teacher). I see that it's very seductive to have this kind of power, isn't it? Hard to give up, but if you really want to follow Lord Jesus, you must renounce all connection with other gods. Christ's peace to you, John. Shasha | ||||
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Topic Closed Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Christian Morality and Theology Can Christians believe in reincarnation?