quote:

Originally posted by Shasha:

That all sounds very insightful and wise to me, Paul. About the last sentence in believing ourselves to be the source of our specialness. We are neither the source of our ordinary creaturely uniqueness nor the source of our specialness as the New Creations underway through Christ. Having supernatural experiences and / or mystical graces places even greater demands for our gratitude and right understanding of God's role in our transformation.

Having supernatural/mystical experiences does make us statistically more 'special' as in unusual, relative to most of the world. The more unusual your experiences, the more rare and 'special' you will be, as a matter of fact. So we do have to cope with being different and have to contend with how to deal with that and relate to others in honest ways concerning our 'specialness' without losing sight of God's action. Sometimes one is so afraid of being the target of envy that they go out of their way to conceal, distort, or deny their experiences, which is a different kind of neurotic problem. Maybe that's called 'false humility' in fact. And often, I've seen myself go through this, swing between the two poles of claiming specialness (pride) and denying it (false humility). Ha ha! Glad to see that dying down in my old age. Anyway, that's a total sidebar discussion, but I want to say that I appreciate your sharing Paul!

Unusual, I think, might be more accurate, though I think it's important to remember that it's not necessarily in a good way. I've had and still have weird, sometimes mystical experiences that have, over time, proven to lead me toward virtue and relationship with God. When I take a step back and look at it objectively, though, I have to admit that without these experiences, I doubt that I would have much interest in spirituality at all. The reason I say this isn't a good thing is that I know there are people out there who develop faith and virtue without having to be impressed by mystical experiences, and I've never been one of them.

If I'm completely honest with myself, I know that over the course of my life, it's taken nothing less than the direct and obvious intervention by the Almighty Creator of the Universe to get me to not be a completely useless pile of crap. Truly blessed are those who believe without seeing. So no, I don't really consider myself special; at least not in moments of clarity.

quote:

Originally posted by aviela:
It seems like our unconscious has the power to create and manifest and exteriorize what then appear to us as spirits, ghosts, entities, etc.

From all that I have been reading here & elsewhere and through my own experiences where I am being made aware of my own imbalances, etc.
I tend to believe that Kundalini can manifest itself and exteriorize itself so that it may at times appear as a hallucination, but may in fact simply be a part of one's psyche...like the figures in dreams....some are positive and some are manifestations of imbalance and so are "negative".
But at the same time there actually may be spirits that are outside entities... they maybe genuine and trustworthy, or they may be playing around...how could one know for sure??

One thing I've noticed over the last year is that kundalini seems to remove some of the barrier that keeps us from experiencing the spiritual world via our nervous system. Our imagination functions as a sensory organ, and so if someone isn't already grounded in reality (a job and family helps) I can see how it could be confusing.

Aviela,

You are right, I think. It is hard to tell whether one is projecting one's unconscious impulses/images or if something is external. A real ghost, demon? or one's unconscious persecutor?

In general, I'd say one major criteria I use is to consider the broader context of somebody's life and personality. If one is rather emotionally immature, lacking much insight into their inner world, they are more likely to project. Are they in fairly good contact with reality in general? And if they have a history of distorted perceptions and inability to take responsibility for their problems, they're more likely to project.

Another consideration: if you are actively calling on demons/ghosts, etc, through some occult activity, they will come.

quote:

Originally posted by Shasha:
Aviela,

You are right, I think. It is hard to tell whether one is projecting one's unconscious impulses/images or if something is external. A real ghost, demon? or one's unconscious persecutor?

In general, I'd say one major criteria I use is to consider the broader context of somebody's life and personality. If one is rather emotionally immature, lacking much insight into their inner world, they are more likely to project. Are they in fairly good contact with reality in general? And if they have a history of distorted perceptions and inability to take responsibility for their problems, they're more likely to project.

Another consideration: if you are actively calling on demons/ghosts, etc, through some occult activity, they will come.

hmmmm....yes, one must take into account the maturity of a person, etc... but I don't think that one can equate spiritual/emotional openness with emotional immaturity....
sometimes it happens to those that are most aware of their inner life and they are easily shaken by things...and it sometimes seems that some of the least emotionally mature and aware do not experience these types of things....
But yes, as you said it's all something that can be taken into account.
as myfutureself posted "kundalini seems to remove some of the barrier that keeps us from experiencing the spiritual world via our nervous system. Our imagination functions as a sensory organ".
lots of things to consider )

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

quote:

What is funny is that Shiva and I are very close good friends and he is not actually a god. He is a very advanced yogi that has been around for several thousand or more years and still lives on this planet in physical form.

Tucker . . . c'mon, man!

Sorry Phil.

quote:

What is funny is that Shiva and I are very close good friends and he is not actually a god. He is a very advanced yogi that has been around for several thousand or more years and still lives on this planet in physical form.

Tucker, if you are serious your comment makes you seem a little loopy . If you're not then you may confuse people...like me

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jacques,

quote:

Originally posted by Jacques:

quote:

What is funny is that Shiva and I are very close good friends and he is not actually a god. He is a very advanced yogi that has been around for several thousand or more years and still lives on this planet in physical form.

Tucker, if you are serious your comment makes you seem a little loopy . If you're not then you may confuse people...like me

Sometimes fact is stranger than fiction. And let those who understand understand and let those who do not understand not understand.

Tuck, let's talk about this. Are you saying that Shiva manifests in a form people can see at times, or that he's an actual human being with a body who's been around thousands of years? If the latter, then how could you be sure that was, in fact, the case? I'm not doubting that you've met such a person who told you that, and that he's your friend.

So far as we've been able to document, people don't live to be much over 120 years old, and very, very few, at that.
- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people

Your friend would break those records many times over, if his claims could be documented. I'm guessing that's just not possible in his case, however.

Another possible way to understand this is that this yogi had deeply embodied the "spirit" of Hinduism's Shiva, and was in a lineage of others who'd done so as well. People speaking out of such lineages tend, at times, to present themselves at being in a continuum with those who came before -- as though it were all just one life that had been manifesting. Hopefully, we're doing something like that even in Christianity ("the life I live is not my own, it is Christ living in me" -- Gal. 2:20). Could that be what's going on, here?

quote:

Originally posted by aviela:
... but I don't think that one can equate spiritual/emotional openness with emotional immaturity....

To clarify, I'm saying emotional immaturity more generally predicts a *confusion* about one's perceptions, not how open you are to spiritual experiences. See what I mean? In other words, if you don't understand your own inner world very well, it will be harder to discern wheather something is real/ external or is being projected from your unconscious. This includes your strong wishes and longings, fears, terrors, etc. Sorry for the confusion.

Maybe you want to say more about your particular concerns about yourself in this regard?

I know I went through a lot of confusion about what was real during a kundalini upheaval in my life. For me, it was largely attributed to contact with folks who were into the occult (called God), and I got sucked in due to not knowing how to set boundaries, which was my immaturity.

All this points to a need for wise spiritual direction.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Tuck, let's talk about this. Are you saying that Shiva manifests in a form people can see at times, or that he's an actual human being with a body who's been around thousands of years? If the latter, then how could you be sure that was, in fact, the case? I'm not doubting that you've met such a person who told you that, and that he's your friend.

So far as we've been able to document, people don't live to be much over 120 years old, and very, very few, at that.
- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people

Your friend would break those records many times over, if his claims could be documented. I'm guessing that's just not possible in his case, however.

Another possible way to understand this is that this yogi had deeply embodied the "spirit" of Hinduism's Shiva, and was in a lineage of others who'd done so as well. People speaking out of such lineages tend, at times, to present themselves at being in a continuum with those who came before -- as though it were all just one life that had been manifesting. Hopefully, we're doing something like that even in Christianity ("the life I live is not my own, it is Christ living in me" -- Gal. 2:20). Could that be what's going on, here?

First let me say this, Phil I admire what you are doing and have done for the Catholic Church and what the Catholic Church has done for humankind in spite of the fact that there has always been folks in the middle of the Catholic Church's gift that are trying to mess things up.

Now with that said, whenever anyone is trying to do good for humankind there is always folks in the middle of it trying to mess things up. The yoga aspect of Hinduism is no different than anything else that is attempting to help humankind. Because of these people, Shiva stepping forward and proving himself as a physical fact would only create chaos in today's world. Shiva stepping forward as a Christian would also only create chaos in today's world. Jesus our Lord and Savior once said, "I did not come to bring peace." And His presence for a bit of time on this planet created a conflict that is still going strong two thousand years later. Shiva couldn't straighten out that conflict even if he wanted to and he wouldn't even if he could, because Jesus is Master and the master always knows what he is doing. So at this point in time, Shiva stepping forward would be non productive and only mess with what the Master is doing. You do not live as long has he has and mess with what the beloved Master is doing. One just sits quietly until they are called to participate.

So now the question Phil is, "Why did I post what I posted on this message board knowing full well that it was not going to be understood or accepted by most people in today's world? And knowing full well that if it was accepted, would create overwhelming conflict in today's world?" Phil, I guess that I am "loopy", surely we can agree on that ?

quote:

To clarify, I'm saying emotional immaturity more generally predicts a *confusion* about one's perceptions, not how open you are to spiritual experiences. See what I mean? In other words, if you don't understand your own inner world very well, it will be harder to discern wheather something is real/ external or is being projected from your unconscious. This includes your strong wishes and longings, fears, terrors, etc. Sorry for the confusion.

Maybe you want to say more about your particular concerns about yourself in this regard?

I know I went through a lot of confusion about what was real during a kundalini upheaval in my life. For me, it was largely attributed to contact with folks who were into the occult (called God), and I got sucked in due to not knowing how to set boundaries, which was my immaturity.
All this points to a need for wise spiritual direction.

Hi Sasha,
I understand what you are saying...about emotional maturity and I think that you may also include "being grounded" in that....
No I'm not into the occult...though I have at
times prayed for God, an angel, or something to give me guidance and I did have a few experiences that for the most part I believed to have manifested from my own unconscious...
I also think that my K experience began as a preparation and a way of dealing with something that had been a very, very emotional experience and that was about to reappear in my life.
My first explanation was that it was my unconscious that was doing it...because it was a hard situation and I believe my psyche was trying to help me also via dreams.....but then there were some things that had me worried...
If you click on my name you can read my other posts...I believe I posted the event in 1 of the other discussions in the last few months.
Since then, I simply feel the "usual sensations" and don't have any hallucinations or anything....
thanks for your replies and concerns Sasha

quote:

Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:
Something different now.

The title of this threat is "Kundalini Symptoms & Experiences". One symptom, or better said: byproduct is:

CRAMPS

I was reading this several times, that cramps are symptoms of k. And noticed then a connection of some cramps, that i have sometimes, and my Kundalini. Sometimes i have cramps early in the morning in my left lower leg, during the process of awakening. Or they work as a kind of "alarm call-service",when i sleep too long. Now a little further investigation showed me that i usually get these cramps in periods when i am not so much aspiring (less meditations and prayers as usual).
Seems that the transformation process especially of the nervous system urges the brain to increasingly demand for k, prayer and meditation. If not, it sends some signals to produce cramps (in my case in the lower legs).
And i noticed too that, in a period when i have cramps, they disappear immediately if i start then to pray and meditate more, longer and more intense.


So in summary:

If your k is awakend, and you have cramps, simply pray and meditate more to get rid of them.

(in my case it helps, and i hope this hint can be a benefit for others too. Just try! )

I don't get cramps, but other "symptoms" definitely get more intense if I don't pray on schedule. The energy seems to be much more intense - if I miss my morning prayer, then by the evening, if I begin to relax, I feel like I'm vibrating. I'm also much less tolerant of background noise, television, lots of people talking, etc. It can get to be very uncomfortable if I don't have a period of silence every day.


Paul

Paul, I sure can relate to a hypersensitivity to noise & verbal chaos!
That's a huge problem for me, and it's a miserable thing for my children. I've never noticed that it varies with prayer/ quiet time. Maybe I have missed this connection?
I've learned to cope by using earplugs, which have kept me sane-ish. :-)

Hi!

It is an old saying but still very relevant. "Higher levels greater devils" But in Christ we can overcome all things.
Margaret Smith

At the beginning of the post, I wrote something about myself and important things. If you can't read all, skip the first part untill: "NEW YEAR- AWAKENING"
I'm 20 years old. Am perky, charismatic and different. I spent childhood with my mother and 7 years older sister. My parents are divorced, and I didn't develop a relationship with my father. I've always been perky, wild soul, and loved to goofy around, but closed. Intelligent, in first school and highschool I didn't work a lot, didn't have the grades I could and was perky a lot. When I was 18 I enrolled an university of entrepeneurship. I watched Mooji. On spring, i fell in love in a girl a lot but we didn't end up together. Here and there I smoked weed. On summer 2013 (the next) I was lonely and without any friends. At the end of the summer I worked a lot. I smoked weed occassionaly. Than, in October I ended work and continued with my University. Since here I started to totally close in myself. I was moving in a place of an acquintance from university. He was smoking weed every day and dealed. My life, back then, looked like this: I'd go to the university, I had no friends- didn't try to find any new, on the beginning I smoked weed occassionaly, was in a company where it looked like this: smoking weed, then looking at the mobile/watching a movie and going to sleep, and I ate junk food. Soon I started smoking weed every day. I felt really lonely and depressesd. I wrote down in diary that everything is going to be ok when I smoke a joint.
NEW YEAR- AWAKENING (END OF THE SUFFERINGS)
I was really tense. I waited to smoke some. That made me relaxed. The second one didn't. And something wasn't right. In the bar my friends were drinking and I couldn't get drunk. There were ternse thoughts in my head and it seemed impossible to get away from them. I went back to my appartment. I couldn't live like that anymore.
-I believe that already here is the beginning of my awakening because something inside of me felt discomfort and yearned for things to be changed.
-I stopped smoking weed.
When I got out on the street, and heard all the noise (cars, traffic lights) I was confused and thought I'd go crazy. Then I bursted (or begined to burst), told it all to my sister, cried on the phone. It was really hard for me. Then I spent a weekend with my sister.
When I came back I called a friend (ex best friend) and visited her. I came to her every day and opened myself to her more and more.
-Intuition (inner voice) was more and more „unstuck“, and „started to open to the surface“. I couldn't sleep. I had big amounts of energy in my body, feeling tense and anxious, which I felt in my upper back. After that I used to have panic attacks when I had to call someone, and also I went to my friend who helped me fall asleep in her hug.
I had a feeling- like a deep knowing that my life is going in a totally opposite way.
Then, I can't think of exactly when, I felt a release. My thoughts were becoming weaker, and were overpowered by my inner voice, whom I couldn't fight, no matter how much I wanted to. It leaded me. Leaded me through the path of my heart. It showed what my heart wants, and automatically, the worries that my ego is worried about became totally unimportant. Unimportant compared to the heart, with whom I didn't control- it took me its way and showed me what's really important. Everything I did was spontaneous. I experienced it as a miracle. I can't describe it with words. It prooved me that I don't want that university, and all materialistic became less important, I realized that my life is a lie. It prooved me that I love to cook, act, imitate, to run in nature, humor and open people.
Onwards, I spent my days running, passionately cooking, and driving my car (which is a form of meditation). I'd sit in my car without true knowing about where I'm going to. Or I thought (planned) to go somewhere, but intuition would point me elsewhere so I'd listen to it. Intuiton or „that something“ took me to my father with whom I didn't speak for 3 years. I also used to drive myself around the city intuitively and that way was spontaneously steping out of my comfort zone even though I was afraid.
Once I went running, intuition indicated me to take the towel, even though I didn't know why because I never take it....and after the running I'd plant my bare feet in the beach (which I never did before), dry my legs with a towel- and than realised why I took it.
I'd go to the grocery store, without knowing how much money I have, intuitively shopping and at the cashier, opened my wallet- there was 140 in it, and the bill was 140 too. I was also buying things I usely don't buy, and after 2 days I'd put them in a dinner- which I was making on the most passionate and best way ever.
Also, intuition attracted me into a real estate agency. I found a place, and real estate agent and owner of the new place were good souls.
It got me to the amateur theatre (the warmest place, people and atmosphere).
I knew I had to follow my heart and intuition but didn't know how, and how to let go what I needed to let go and which paths to take.
I decided to go back to university and go back to „normal life“.
In the beginning it was hard to get used to the nonspontaneus living once again.
After that, I force nothing. When it happens that I feel lost or with low self-esteem, I'd go drive my car and my intuition shows me the way, and that it's always here.
I don't like to explore it a lot and to be „with my head“ in it. I found out it is called a Kundalini awakening or a Spontaneous spiritual awakening and that it happens to rare people.
Since then, it's impossible to live the opposite from my heart.
My life, or better said, me- am changed forever, I realised with a 100 % knowing that the universe takes care for me and that I don't control over my life. I wouldn't be so sure in it if I didn't find out through my experience. And it was only a beginning of my awakening process.
I'm extremely grateful on that -the worst experience in my life untill now.
I didn't tell a lot of people about this, but I realised that I'd go through the awakening easily if I share it with others- maybe somebody has a similar experience and advice to share with me so that I don't feel alone.
I didn't let go of the University because one Yoga teacher told me I need to have an „anchor“ in life. Currently I act in a theatre, do stand-up comedy, and am finding out more about awakening and nuisances, and am trying to connect with people who are waking up and- find out who I am.