Hi!
Thank you Phil for allowing me in, and thank you for putting your wonderful book out there for people in my shoes, it really is helpful.

I do not know if this is the correct forum to post my questions, but I saw 'Kundalini' and headed here. I am 42 yo, married, father of 2, Baptist since childhood. I'll start a few years back when I started awakening to involuntary strong vibrations. I was scared as can be, so I went searching. I found how those applied to Out of Body Experiences and they were not evil, so I let them happen and actually now look forward to them. About every two weeks I will have them, but only have an OBE once in a while. I want to make this point clear, I did nothing to induce these, I prayed my butt off for them to stop when they would happen.

So, I found valuable resources online in Yahoo Groups and read several books on the subject, and more. So now after having several OBE's I began to really wonder what everyone does at some point... "why are we here", "where are we going", "what exactly is our purpose", "what are we supposed to be doing", "am I doing the right things". And many other philosophical questions such as these. I was really, really questioning everything, it was consuming my every thought. Then on January 30 this year (my Grandmas birthday) I had a spinal sweep. I didn't know the term, nor it's implications or meanings until I searched and found a Kundalini message group. In a "dream" I had lightning bolts shooting throughout my body. Bright white electricity looking bolts shooting all throughout my entire body while it jerked uncontrollably, I could see through my skin and watch them zing back and forth, marvelling in their beauty. This was a most fantastic "dream" I will NEVER forget.

I found out this was a typical spinal sweep, a "welcome" into Kundalini, which terrified me yet again because I was a Christian, I don't want this! Anyway, the group I am in is very loving and very supportive and I owe all I know regarding Kundalini to them, I love them all. My only uneasiness over there is almost all of them have a Hindu slant to their responses and recommendations. Prayer to Shakti, prayer to Shiva, all of the 'snake' references, I can't help but cringe, Biblical verses pop into my head "Thou shalt not pray to any other gods, for I am a jealous God" and the references to Adam and Eve and the snake in the Garden and the tempting of the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge. I mean I am having HUGE trouble with all of these. It is being explained that the Kundalini IS the Holy Spirit, everything reconciles nicely, Shakti is the femanine aspect of God and that's it's ok.

Maybe this is all true, and maybe I'm overreacting, but I sure don't want to make a mistake in following the wrong path. I have received one shaktipat, voluntarily, and am about to receive another, it is not one-on-one, it is performed remotely and is only given in relation to the persons practice of the 'golden rules'. Which are all good, service to others, love, forgiveness, acceptance, surrender, humility...

I just got to the point that I cannot completely "surrender" and I know I must because resisting is futile and painful. I just don't want to surrender to the wrong thing.

-If I can get some validation that the Kundalini and Christianity are cohabitable then I will feel so much better.

-If I can get reconciliation that praying to Shakti is indeed praying to God, or the Feminine Aspect of God, or even the Holy Spirit, then I'm fine.

-If I can find support in that the concept of the Chakra system and the snake rising up through them is ok with Christ then I'm cool.

I hope this makes sense, I hope I have come to the right place, I hope I haven't screwed up my life too bad. I just know that these vibrational things happen, the OBE's happen, the kriyas happen (forgot to mention those), the spinal sweep happened. This is happening to me and it isn't going away. I unintentionally and completely severed a pretty bad drinking habit, overnight, gone, vanished, my urge disappeared. Sometimes I feel detatched, kind of zoning. I am beginning to appreciate ALL forms of life like never before. I used to laugh at 'tree-huggers' thinking "IT'S JUST A TREE YOU IDIOT!!!" but not anymore. I know God is all around us.

Thank you for listening,
Bill

Dear Bill,

Welcome to our discussion. It is nice to 'meet' you. Yes, I think you've come to the right place. I hope and pray that we can offer you some guidance, support, information, whatever you need.

There is much that I'd like to respond to in your post. Thank you for taking the time to share.

For starters, let me direct you to a response I just finished posting to Father Aidan's thread. It addresses your questions about praying to shaki/shiva, etc.

Gotta go for now.

peace to you and your family,
in Christ Jesus,

Shasha

I echo Shasha's gracious welcome, Bill. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. What you describe sounds like a spontaneous kundalini awakening.

I think there's much to learn from the Hindus about this process, but, as a Christian, I wouldn't go so far as to pray to Shiva or Shakti. In your case, this process has been awakened in the context of your everyday life as a practicing Christian, so why not continue to trust that the Lord knows what He's doing in blessing you in this manner? It seems you're looking really hard outside of yourself for guidance to do the right thing, and I can relate to that. I also know, however, that inner guidance is given by the Holy Spirit; just paying attention to the promptings of the process, and the consequences you experience will take you very far.

We've had a number of discussions on kundalini and the Holy Spirit, Christianity, etc. on this forum. Check the links on these topics and you'll find that most of us who post regularly here find that there's no inherent conflict between Christian faith and this process. There's a great deal of mystery concerning why some have this happen, but most people don't. Certainly, contemplative practices are often a factor, but it doesn't sound like that was the case with you.

Keep us posted on how things go, and, again, take a few minutes to read some of the discussions that have already gone on here. I think you'll find resonance with the issues and questions that concern you.

Peace. Phil

Hi Bill,

I know it must be difficult coming from a Baptist tradition into the weird n wonderful world of Kundalini and all. I've come from a similar place myself but find that I'm able to integrate the K and other psychic stuff with my Christianity without exploring Hinduism to any great degree. Learning about chakras and what not can certainly help you get your bearings through the experience, but Jesus is still Lord and to go through the journey with Him is liberating, exciting, stimulating, you name it. Certainly praying to any other deity or to the energy (shakti, which is a created energy, not the Uncreated Light of the Holy Spirit) is best avoided.

Have a look at this thread, where you'll find some of your concerns met in an ongoing exchange.
http://shalomplace.com/ubb/ult...;t=000319;p=1#000008

First, let me thank everyone who has replied. Thank you for the links I have read them and more. I feel comfortable integrating the kundalini with my path of Christianity, strange, but I am seeing evidence of it in the Bible.

So, we pray to Jesus and God, do we pray to the Holy Spirit? Isn't the Holy Spirit Shakti? I'm just confused on this part. It does make sense that the Holy Spirit is Shakti and that metaphorically Jesus is the son of God and Shakti, is that correct? I just came up with that right now, actually.

Ok, so what about Shaktipat. The group I'm with, what is received is governed by how much you are in practice of the golden rules, they call them something else but I don't want to repeat it, which are your basic good traits Jesus taught anyway, Love, Forgiveness, Service to others... So it isn't like a full blown forced guru awakening. It is limited by your practice. Is this kind of Shaktipat ok? I felt nothing on my first one, which is ok, but I am looking forward to the next one in about 2 weeks. Is this a harmful thing?

Yes, I know, the answers are inside, but I am having trouble finding them. I remain open, waiting, praying, meditating, not getting too obsessed, but still nothing. I honestly believe the group I am in is all good, to the highest degree possible. The guru is very humble and has never acted 'holier than thou' or anything. He always says I'm nothing special, I am just an ordinary person just like you, he is very helpful and I love him as I love everyone. My only issue is it's slanted toward Hinduism, but they say to follow your own path. They say things like "Say your prayer to Shakti, or Whoever you pray to"... But mostly it's Shakti this, Shakti that. I don't fully understand Who or What Shakti is.

At times I just feel like 'dumbing down' and going about my business without thinking about it, just letting whatever happen happen. But it mostly consumes me. And so far all I've accomplished is confusion. I am trying to lose the ego, be a better person, service to others, all of that makes me feel good. I just am confused about Shakti.

Thanks again, I know I can jump all over the place, but that's how my thoughts come in, lol. Is anyone else having the vibrations? The OBE's??? Does anyone else believe in reincarnation and kharma and soul evolution? Or is it a one-time shot like I've always believed?

I do know the Bible talks about kundalini, Paul comes to mind on the road where out of nowhere, BAM, instant change.

Any help appreciated, I love reading about this and I look for replies obsessively lol. I will be gone for the weekend beginning at noon today, so if I don't reply please don't think I've left, I really like it here and need a lot more opinions on all of this. I hope to come home to a lot of replies, I need other views.

Thanks again.
Bill

Please let me add, my sister is going through this process exactly as I am, she is a Baptist, married, mother of 3. She gets the vibes, had some horrible full body jerking kriyas for 3 weeks, but they have calmed down, she is uneasy about the Hindu slant, we are both looking out for each other through this ordeal. So, I don't know if that's important, but we started receiving these things about the same time, roughly 8 months ago.
Thanks,
Bill

Bill,

Shakti isn't the same as the Holy Spirit. Shasha'a post on Fr Aidan's thread is full of good advice as to who or what Shakti is. See also the thread on Kundalini and the Holy Spirit. Phil's summary on page 1 is excellent. And there's nothing metaphorical about Jesus being the Son of God.

I don't think it's necessary to form rigid opinions about reincarnation and things like that. Best bet is to be patient, open minded and continue praying to God (Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit), allowing that relationship to develop, so that anything else falls into the grace of that.

posted by astronutski:
[QB] cut...

"So, we pray to Jesus and God, do we pray to the Holy Spirit? Isn't the Holy Spirit Shakti? I'm just confused on this part. It does make sense that the Holy Spirit is Shakti and that metaphorically Jesus is the son of God and Shakti, is that correct? I just came up with that right now, actually.

Ok, so what about Shaktipat. "
+++++

Bill here is a discussion making distinctions between kundalini & The Holy Spirit.

http://shalomplace.com/ubb/ult...t_topic;f=4;t=000010

From what i'm hearing you say it sounds like the teacher who is giving you shaktipat,
is blending 2 different belief systems. Christianity & Hinduism.

I found this article very helpful in discussing the importance of not blending traditions
but keeping them separate.


http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/east-wes.htm

http://www.innerexplorations.com/catew/the.htm

part of the conversation with Wayne Teasdale and The Mystic Heart :

1.13.56. Jim. Would it be possible that Catholics or Christians who are not well-founded in their own traditions would practice Hinduism and end up at advaita, and not see that there are two experiences that ought to be brought together?

Wayne. I think that has happened many, many times. (gives examples) When you are deeply grounded in your tradition and you have some experience of the mystical life in your tradition, then you have a good foundation to go into another tradition, and when you go into the other tradition what inevitably happens is it takes you deeper into your own tradition. You discover Christ and the Trinity on a deeper level there.

1.15.55. Jim. Would it be fair to say that while these two mystical experiences are deeply interrelated, they are not identical?

Wayne. Yes, I think that is fair to say. As far as my own experience extends, that would be the direction I would go in. I could be wrong. Maybe they are identical. In mysticism we are all only novices. But I don�t think they are all equal.

Bill and Astronutski:

In order to reiterate some of what Phil and Stephen seem to be saying, I'll share what occured in my life:

There was certainly confusion about the relationship between kundalini and the Holy Spirit. The kundalini awoke very strongly in me about 15 years ago in response to a process of forgiveness re: my parents that began a few years prior. I think because this awakening of k was based upon a dilation of the heart, where my will was genuinely disposed, or grounded in the possibility of increased virtue, the process was fairly balanced, although it did wake up most everything else in my subconscious that needed integration into conscious self-awareness. Lots of fun there, boy!! I had to stop doing most of the Yoga I had been doing, or at least the Qigong, as k wasn't responding well to these.

At that time I was not active in the church, and because k was so powerful and alluring, I felt sure Christians were amiss in their understanding when they spoke of the Holy Spirit. During that time period I met a lovely Hindu teacher, received Shaktipat, but fortunately still had some earlier Christian formation and a good friend who was well along the Christian mystical path (before I knew Phil). I also had a spiritual director who was a Christian monk as all this k processing was going on. The Hindu teacher was, and is, a truly lovely person, but she's a creature just like I am. However much another person may engender k in us through their expanded consciousness, they aren't capable of transmitting the Holy Spirit, except indirectly through however loving/virtuous they are.

I should also mention there was a lot of psychotherapy prior to the k awakening, which helped the wounds get ripe enough so that I could transition from a cathartic emotional processing to an alchemical one (which is where emotional conflicts resolve internally-energetically without being limited to a particular historical narrative or external focus). This was all important to help me experience interiority as a natural landscape, and, of course, the k is the essence of this bodily intelligence.

It wasn't until I experienced Christ's presence some years later than I realized the huge difference between k and HS. Once this happened, there was simply no more confusion, although k is still at times alluring.

Metaphysically, it helps me to understand that k is a creature, whereas HS is the source of all creaturely functions, including k. One is created, the other beyond time and space yet present with us via the life of Christ. But the actual presence of the Holy Spirit makes that intellectual distinction not so important. And that may have much to do with how it all unfolded in my life. K was already intimately familiar, and once the anointing of the HS came, there was a clear distinction experientially.

But when I say "anointing," I don't mean slain in the spirit, which often occurs during large prayer gatherings where kundalini activity is heightened, and can can occlude the purity of the Holy Spirit as Peace (not to say HS isn't present in these gatherings, but that some folks may encounter the k effects first and end up with that confusion). Now, Shasha has much to say about these issues, which I may not be doing fairness to.

Kundalini certainly responds to the Holy Spirit, but in my experience (probably based upon the needs of my nervous system and psyche), k is usually softened and integrated and soothed in the presence of the HS, and then days later can become more like a wild horse needing bigger pasture.

So there are many different possible scenarios for each of us. Comparing can distort that integrity. My only real advice is to stay simple in your prayer life. Include/invite Jesus into everything, especially the passions that may emerge with k, and allow the uncreated to orchestrate the created. Remember, we have very little control over even the most humble bodily processes, let alone the power of k. And, we tend to exclude Christ from our human experiences that harbor shame, such as sexual desire, anger, etc. He's already present within those mind-states as the second person of the Trinity through whom all is created, and in the Father through whom all is upheld. But if we invite Him into those places he is free, by his Incarnation, to do what only He can do. It took me a long time to trust just how friendly He is with these areas of my life.

All the best to both of you. You've come to a good place for support.

Thank you W.C., thank you Stephen, thank you Ajoy, thank you Shasha and thank you Phil. I have read a lot here, but I am still very much confused. I was a day away from receiving a scatterfield and eventual shaktipat for my second time, but aborted it this morning because of my confusion. I thank you tremendously for the links, but they point to 14 pages of lengthy discussions using words that frankly go right over my head. This is not what I need.

I feel very far into a spiritual emergency and feel nobody is understanding my plight. I am desperately seeking guidance from some Christian who has gone through this ahead of me and need insight and guidance from them. So far all I have been receiving and understanding is in the other group full of loving people and who are quick with answers, although from a Hindu slant. That is my problem. I do not want to pray to shakti or shiva or worship a snake or surrender to shakti or a snake.

I need a connection between Kundalini and Christianity. I need a bunch of Christians who are knowledgable about kundalini to tell me it's ok to surrender to the snake or shakti or whatever and that I won't go to hell for doing so. I can't approach my preacher (I am Baptist) because I knwo he isn't familiar with this. You all are. I want so desperately to understand this, to be comfortable with this process and just to let go and have a flawless and painless awakening, but so far it is horrible. I am agonizing day and night about it, is it "of God", is it ok to surrender to shakti, is it ok to receive a shaktipat, is it ok to be following a guru who is not a Christian but does respect and believe the teachings of Christ but uses Hindu metaphors? I can't describe him in one sentence, let alone a paragraph. He is all love and the shaktipat is not forced, it is given in accordance to your love and service to others and forgiveness and inner joy and on and on... So you only receive that which you are "faithful" to the "golden rules". I am going berserk here trying to understand and make it all fit from theirs to ours.

Please help, please someone tell me that I won't go to hell by going through this kundalini awakening, that there are many paths to the Kingdom. I know that through Christ is the only way, but is it possible to follow the rising snake and chakra theories keeping Christ as the focal point, ie. not praying to shakti but to Christ. Will that "work"?

These are the main points I am struggling with. I need to have the Christian perspective of the kundalini rising and shakti connection explained, point blank, in words I can understand please.

Sorry for being so difficult and thick.
Respectfully,
Bill (astronutski)

Bill:"Please help, please someone tell me that I won't go to hell by going through this kundalini awakening."

You won't!


Bill:"Is it possible to follow the rising snake and chakra theories keeping Christ as the focal point, ie. not praying to shakti but to Christ. Will that "work"?"

Yes.

Kundalini is just energy, Bill. Created energy. Created by God, in man. When it rises it affects the nervous system. It's transformative. Shakti is a divine personification (deification?) of that energy. Different cultures deify different things, from the sun to their emperor, but that doesn't make them truly divine. So the energy itself is not divine. If you treat the energy as created and hand it to Christ who is Divine, He'll be present in that. He's lovely and He loves you. There's no need to make a new god for yourself, especially when that god is merely a representation of created energy, however powerful.

Please help, please someone tell me that I won't go to hell by going through this kundalini awakening, that there are many paths to the Kingdom. I know that through Christ is the only way, but is it possible to follow the rising snake and chakra theories keeping Christ as the focal point, ie. not praying to shakti but to Christ. Will that "work"?
+++++++++


I am so sorry to hear of what you are going through at present Bill.

A couple things to offer you from my perspective.

One thing that has helped me is this. Kundalini is a "natural part" of human
development. What Gopi Krishna called an evolutionary energy. It is something
that is common to all people's. To me, Kundalini & Enlightenment can be a beautiful part of the Traditional Christian experience. Phil, the owner of this list, has written a beautiful
book on his process.

Kundalini & Enlightenment is not the focus however of the Christian journey. Ones' relationship with Jesus is, " Not" Shiva & Shakti. So yes, i would pray to Jesus. Be assured Bill,
you aren't going to go to hell because you are experiencing Kundalini.

However this is still an issue where little is understood within Traditional Christianity. I made
the mistake of going to ministers & a priest. Not a good experience at a time i needed
to understand what was happening to me. So i would be cautious who i speak to about this.
This is still considered rather rare apparently, so not many may understand.


I know of the guru you are talking about Bill Yes, he does seem to be Enlightened. Loving,
compassionate, & great wisdom about Kundalini. As a traditional Christian however i would not receive any more shaktipat, nor pray to Shiva or Shakti.
Focus on Christian practices and give this Kundalini process over to the care of Jesus, The Beloved.

I think it's common to want to understand what we're going through. What's happening
within our bodies, are we on path or have we fallen from it. Perhaps as you start to feel
reconnect with YHWH & can trust what is occurring you may wish to look at what some
other people have written on the list. Others have shared your same concerns. I believe Phil has written some things about caring for
ourselves while going through Kundalini. Things like diet, adequate rest ect. will be very
important now.

Bill, have you seen this (below) from Phil's book on Kundalini? (I hope it's o.k. that I post this, Phil?) You can purchase the entire book..the E-Book, or the paperback.


"What Are Some Ways to Cope with and Integrate Awakened Kundalini Energies?

1. Don't panic! Fear only colors the energy darkly. There is nothing to fear if you cooperate with the process (or at least don't frustrate it too much).

2. Find someone to talk to about what is happening to you -preferably someone who knows about kundalini or spiritual growth.

3. Accept the process as a sign of growth. Be grateful for the growth that is taking place within, painful though it may be.

4. Do not work against the process. Pay attention to what hurts, and back off on activities that seem to frustrate the process (e.g., heavy reading, drinking alcohol, using drugs, smoking, immoderate sex, even too much meditation). Learn to "go with the flow."

5. Keep your intent of consciousness focused on BEING HERE NOW IN LOVE.

6. Let the various states of consciousness produced by kundalini come and go. Experience and explore them, but do not attach to them. The True Self is not to be found in any particular state of consciousness.

7. Surrender yourself into the care of Christ, Whose Spirit is capable of guiding your kundalini energies toward a wholesome integration. Trust that a Higher Guidance is at work in the process. Ask for this Guidance when confused; listen for the answers.

8. Accept the pains that come and willingly cooperate with asanas and compulsions to meditate. These all pass away in time.

9. Practice yogic asanas for at least fifteen minutes a day to help facilitate the movement of the energy. Also consider using Tai Chi, massage, and/or movement therapies, especially when the energy seems to be blocked.

10. Learn to breathe abdominally.

11. Practice the mahabandha lock under the supervision of an experienced guide. Tuck the chin into the chest, thawing the navel inward and upward during exhalation while gently contracting the anal sphincter and perineal muscles. Keeping the chin tucked in, relax the muscles during inhalation drawing the navel outward to pull the diaphragm downward. Gently repeat this pattern of contracting and relaxing muscles while exhaling and inhaling deeply, attaching a spiritually focused mantra (e.g., "Come, Lord") to the breathing pattern.

12. Eat a balanced and nutritious diet, avoiding red meat, eggs, spicy foods, alcohol, coffee, and empty calorie sweets. Eat more fruit, vegetables, brown rice, grains, nutritious pastries, cheese, milk, yogurt, tofu, and nuts. These healthy foods probably do play a vital role in producing maximum nutrition and minimum pollution to a body undergoing physiological changes.

13. During times of strong energy upheavals, keep food in the stomach. A small snack such as bread and butter every three hours will help to minimize burning sensations in the stomach.

14. Avoid all forms of willful, competitive activities that generate fear and anger, for these will contaminate the energy with painful emotions.

15. Learn to deal with feelings as they arise through proper communication skills.

16. Males should be especially careful about sexual expression. Although the research on kundalini and sexuality is only in its infancy, the experiences of many (the author included) point up a definite relationship between kundalini energy and sexual energy. Genital sexuality should not be divorced from love, or else one's spiritual energy and physiological responsiveness will be lowered.

17. Creative outlets of expression help to ground the energy. This was a turning point in Gopi Krishna's experience of kundalini, and many others have noted the same. Activities such as dance, song, art, poetry, sculpture, gardening, and even long, quiet walks are helpful.

18. When you don't know what to do to cooperate with the process, it is better to do less than too much. For example, it is better to cut back on meditation than to meditate too much. It is easier to awaken a sleeping serpent than to tame an angry one.

19. Above all, you should be careful about Egoic inflation, especially in the early stages. In certain states of consciousness, you may experience profound psychic gifts and feel like a great spiritual genius. You are still human, however. Even though it is not commonly observed, thousands of people throughout history have gone through this process. It's just a part of our human development -that's all!

20. Get a good night's sleep. If the ears hurt, sleep on your side with the ear hurting most (probably the right ear) downward.

21. If symptoms become too uncomfortably strong and painful, suspend meditation, eat more food, and get more exercise. Gradually resume meditation when uncomfortable symptoms have subsided. If this does not help, seek professional guidance."

You're getting some good feedback, astronutski.

Maybe this essay by Jim Arraj (now also in the 2nd edition of my book) can help to provide something of the perspective you're looking for?

Maybe, too, it's time to put the books aside, to re-focus your spiritual life in Christ, and listen intently within for guidance as to what would be helpful, and what not.

If you think a phone consultation would be helpful, drop me an email: phil@shalomplace.com There is a fee for this service, however, though most reasonable, I believe.
- see http://shalomplace.com/direction/consultations.html

Bill:

Perhaps speaking to Phil in person would be helpful - maybe even attending one of his workshops. He won't turn you into a Catholic, either! There's so much common ground between Christian denominations. I can somewhat imagine how alone you feel, especially if kundalini had arisen earlier in my Christian life. But even then I was under strong Catholic influences which accomodate a certain broad sense of human longing for God that might not take the form of Christianity. But nobody at that time understood k, or they weren't talking about it within Christian circles.

I'd go so far to say that you won't go to hell even for being open to a Hindu teacher if your heart leads you in that direction. My Hindu teacher of years past always encouraged me to focus on Christ during meditation, although for them it was a rather relative perspective on the Divine. But perhaps if you did spend some time around Phil and others in his circle, or a Christian like Phil, you'd feel less drawn to your Hindu teacher. This sounds like part of your dilemma, and was mine too, since there were no Christians around when k awakened to even consult, let alone develop a friendship with.

As others have said, k is the bodily energy responding to the HS. If you haven't already, invite Christ into these sensations. There can be shame and fear associated with this process, so let Him actually enter your discomforts and simply rest and trust. And you may find there's a part of you that resists the k, for various fears, and a part that is drawn strongly. Let Jesus be in/with those parts as well.

As for reading, perhaps make it more devotional. A few simple ones that help with surrender of will are:

"The Practice of the Presence of God"

and

"The Sacrament of the Present Moment."


I mention these because they help us receive Christ moment to moment in a very simple way so that our will can become more habituated to Him as attention is relocated from the mind's attempt to control and fix our problems.

The body wants to participate more fully in your faith experience as the temple of the HS, which is apparently a pretty deep faith or this wouldn't be happening.