Yes, that's one of the issues with an old board, is that some topics just keep recycling through the years, as Derek noted. In addition to the books and threads already noted, anyone interested might try the following, which are not locked, but which should be read before adding something to them.

Ego and Self: https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...10625/m/10910695/p/1

The God Who Loves Egos: https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...625/m/4674084538/p/1

The God dimension of experience: https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...0625/m/877305644/p/1

Reflecting and non-reflecting consciousness: https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...72410135/m/241106781

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Basically, one of my "gripes" about how this topic is often treated is that the science of psychology is often ignored, with people throwing around terms like "Ego" using their own idiosyncratic definitions. Also, it's helpful to know more about the religious or metaphysical perspectives of the writers -- e.g., for monists, what lies behind the reflecting consciousness of the Ego seems "non-dual" or non-discriminating, foundational, always "there," and so must be a direct experience of the divine. What else could it be? There are alternative explanations, like the non-reflecting consciousness of the human spirit, which is spiritual but creaturely.

Etc. etc.

Daniel Helminiak's new book, Brain, Consciousness and God, is a landmark work on all this, and well worth the money for those who have the means and energy to slog through it.

I basically had a minor in psychology and have spent a lot of time studying it. And like you I have spent some time on this message board discussing "Ego" as acaveyogy. And as far as I am concerned there is no such thing as "ego" and that the whole concept takes one to places that are miss leading, non existent, and circular. To me it is all just biological computers that can join their Creator should they be inclined to go that way and everything is personality programming the foundation of which lies in our subconscious mind or the automated part of our mind that controls our autonomic nervous system. Because you can't go there without experiencing overwhelming fear, most folks can't go there and therefor know nothing about it. Even the experts, so most of their stuff is nothing but speculation.

"Patanjali" was an ancient Hindu writer who's first rule says, "Yoga ("union") starts with nirodha, which means "a quiet mind." And that was the basically the only thing that he said that I was impressed with . A quiet mind is absolutely necessary to achieve a solid union with anything including true contemplation. And, once you achieve a quiet mind you do not need to know any of this psychology stuff . You just shut it all off and go do other things.

"Kundalini Issues and spiritual Emergencies". This western writer that I read William Johnstone would have one of his characters say, "Now those are some $20 words." Which is another way of having the character say that they do not understand what those words mean. You take the word "Kundalini", it is another one of those "Ego" words. Even in India different masters consider it to mean different things. Actually the Kundalini is something that the ancients talk about that nobody in today's world really knows what it is. All they know is that you have not actually arrived if you have not raised it. It is like the Holy Spirit, people don't really know what It is either and different people say different things. So, what do we know?

Endorphins make you feel good, Kundalini issues and spiritual issues don't . And discussing the "Ego" gives everybody a headache.

So just off the top of your heads guys, what other topics are there on this message board that are "over" discussed? It sounds like this message board has minefields in it for the new and unaware.

Love, tuck

Well, thanks for setting us straight about all that, Tucker.

A few, brief responses:

* The Christian spiritual tradition does emphasize a quiet mind and provides extensive teaching about how to do so.

* Re. the Ego, you wrote: To me it is all just biological computers that can join their Creator should they be inclined to go that way and everything is personality programming the foundation of which lies in our subconscious mind or the automated part of our mind that controls our autonomic nervous system.
- That's all part of our human nature, no? And as you note, this can be in harmony with the Creator, and of course it can go off into the weeds.

* Re. the meaning of kundalini: I agree that there are a wide variety of experiences described under that designation. That's why my recent book on this topic attempts to provide an understanding that is faithful to the core experience of the Hindu tradition while accounting for it in a Christian context. Also, you yourself have contributed a lot to this discussion through the years.

* We do know quite a lot about the Holy Spirit, and of course there's great mystery there, too. I made a free coupon available to a recent video series I developed on the HS, so I hope you took advantage of that. Jesus gave us quite a bit of teaching on the Spirit and wants very much for us to live in the Spirit.

* "Ego" means lots of things to different people, but there is a consensus understanding in psychology, and spiritual writers need to consider this. Ultimately, there can be a healthy, authentic Ego that is the "agent" of our deeper spiritual self and of the Spirit as well. As the responsible center of the psyche and soul, the Ego develops our human potential. Don't go through life without one.

Just to add to what Phil says and to answer your other question, Tucker: The only other subject we’ve really over-discussed is the BR corpus. Discussed so often, in fact, that we no longer need to spell out what “BR” stands for.

I do not know where all of that came from in my last post Phil . I think that my blood sugar level was a little low .

The thing is Phil as a person who is attempting to bring people to God through Christianity you are stuck with having to deal with their "Ego". And you do a really good job as a wordsmith to do that and that is good. The world is a better place because you are in it. Christianity is a better religion because you are in it. But Phil I am a Christian mystic and a solitary Christian yogi and where I go you can not take your "Ego" with you . There is no place or fit for it. Your "Ego" is the programmed concept of "I am" with whatever programming that has been attached to it that identifies and defines you as an "I am".

All of that is ok for normal folks and for your gifts to normal folks. But if one wants to go where the masters and saints went then one has to give up all of that programming that defines who you are or your concept of self and what self is. When you sit quietly and listen to "God", self does not exist, only "God" exists. If you attempt to listen to "God" while maintaining any kind of a concept of self it is just a matter of time before you will begin to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are "God". "God" will define your "I am" as "God" and then become you. Without your "Ego" or "I am" you experience and learn from "God" without becoming "God" and getting sidetracked with something that is not real. It just feels very real.

Love, tucker

I've transferred the discussion of ego, self, and my book, God and I, to another thread (link below). Let's re-focus this one on the thread topic.

https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...3110765/m/3514053838

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
I do not know where all of that came from in my last post Phil . I think that my blood sugar level was a little low .

The thing is Phil as a person who is attempting to bring people to God through Christianity you are stuck with having to deal with their "Ego". And you do a really good job as a wordsmith to do that and that is good. The world is a better place because you are in it. Christianity is a better religion because you are in it. But Phil I am a Christian mystic and a solitary Christian yogi and where I go you can not take your "Ego" with you . There is no place or fit for it. Your "Ego" is the programmed concept of "I am" with whatever programming that has been attached to it that identifies and defines you as an "I am".

All of that is ok for normal folks and for your gifts to normal folks. But if one wants to go where the masters and saints went then one has to give up all of that programming that defines who you are or your concept of self and what self is. When you sit quietly and listen to "God", self does not exist, only "God" exists. If you attempt to listen to "God" while maintaining any kind of a concept of self it is just a matter of time before you will begin to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are "God". "God" will define your "I am" as "God" and then become you. Without your "Ego" or "I am" you experience and learn from "God" without becoming "God" and getting sidetracked with something that is not real. It just feels very real.

Love, tucker

Well Phil, I read your book and all you had to say was that what I was talking about is what you call "false self". Because all I have is a "false self" because of programming, which you also refer to as "programming". And I was unaware that "ego" as you define it did exist separate from programming. At the same time "ego" (as you define it) without any programming can not interact with the physical world. I said that one's "ego" (using your definition) exists because of programming. What I should have said was that a functional "Ego", one capable of interacting with the real world, needs to be properly programmed. Definition of terms. All you would have had to say was that what I was calling "Ego" you call "false self" because of an improperly programmed "ego" and from then on we would have been talking about the same thing and programming's effect on the functional and non functional "Ego".

And in your book relative to the mystic experience the "annihilation of ego" does take place or can take place, it is just that the ego being annihilated is not based on a "false self" because improper programming either didn't happen or was fixed. And as an experienced mystic I maintain that if you take an improperly programmed ego created "False self" into the union with God experience God will become you and you will see and feel yourself as God. If you don't then you are a quiet ego and a quiet self that is capable of experiencing the transforming union with God experience. Annihilation of "ego" can also mean that one has learned to quiet an improperly programmed "ego" and the "false self" that that "ego" has created so that one can enter into the quiet union with God experience. Which is what Bear was talking about which is what started our path into exploring terms and your definition of terms.

Love, tucker

Hi Tucker
A few other things that may help may be
forcing yourself to smile, words or song of gratitude,
praise, devotion.

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker

The question now becomes how can we help those that are having kundalini problems (I have been on Kundalini help message boards for years because I also had problems with uncontrolled kundalini stuff). And so far we can't help them with the question being why? Ergo, "Ways to consciously produce endorphins." We can't change their ego and we probably can't show them how to turn it off like Bear has figured out how to do. And Bear is also using fruit sugar/honey and pure chocolate to assist in the production of endorphins. Personally Bear I think that what you have discovered and are doing is awesome!

My kundalini has been awakened since two years .Before that I was suffered from many symptoms like pain in muscle ,teeth itching ,terrible sound,bowling stomatch problem,gastrics and so many others .i used to meditate Buddha Bipasyana dhyan , mantra dhyan ,osho activation meditation and raj yoga meditation but never tried to awakened kundalii awakening.But it happened spontaneously to me .in my experience kunadalini energy is horrible ,terrible and also so blissfull. but i am still sufferenh from many symptoms .As it is transition stage so I am suffering from many symptoms and one day it will overcome from all the suffers .Now a days, I am suffering from shivering form chest to upper head with cold wave since one month .It is not continuously happens but within a interval times .Likewise ,I am suffering from teeth itching and irritation since few year within a interval time .I went to more than 10 dentist specialist to check up my teeth and did also RCT and scaling but problem is still remaining , how can I control while I am shivering and how I can I get rid of from these problems Or any one has such experiences.

Welcome Surab. So sorry to hear of your painful experiences, which you seem to be attributing to kundalini awakening. I've not heard of the pattern of symptoms you describe, especially regarding teeth. There are nerves and energy nadis running all throughout the body, and they can all be affected in different ways, so everyone's symptoms are somewhat unique. From what you share, it's not clear what's kundalini or something else, as you were already experiencing symptoms before the awakening.

Are you still doing some kind of meditation or spiritual practice? And are you under the guidance of someone who could help you sort things out? Maybe an acupuncturist or naturpathic doctor would have an idea where to go.