Hello all - someone has been asking me my opinion on a couple questions and I thought I'd trial balloon my answers here - tell me what you think. I'm new to this group so I hope these comments are not too irrelevant to this group.

Q1: I'm having a difficult kundalini awakening - who can help?

I have a number of experiences of the kundalini awakened directly intervening in my energetic system to smooth or ease psychologically or physically disturbing kundalini experiences.

Some individuals have relayed to me that simply sitting in the presence of an individual with a balanced and mature awakening can smooth things out. Others have found relief with qi gong masters and other adepts of energetic practices.

Q2: Can't I get some relief from difficult kundalini symptoms from a psychologist, doctor, or therapist - or get some support and guidance from my own religious organization?

When kundalini awakens it begins to purify the individual of whatever blocks them from being fully liberated. These blocks, physical or psychological, certainly come within the realm of concerns of traditional psychology, medicine, or religion. However, because the manner of purification (e.g. tremors and movements or visions) is sufficiently outside the norm of traditional medicine, psychology, or traditional religions, even benevolent advice or direction may not feel to be of much benefit.

A few examples of my own may help. I once sought guidance about difficult kundalini experiences from an experienced Tibetan Lama. He replied: ``Were I to assemble all the Buddhas and bodhisattvas of the three times they could not offer you better advice than to practice bodhicitta (the aspiration to attain enlightenment for the sake of all living beings).''

Another time, during an intensive Zen Sesshin (retreat) I reported energetic difficulties to a Roshi who replied: ``don't focus on the movement of your own energy, focus on the energy of the universe.''

Retrospectively the given advice was impeccable but it still didn't help me because I simply didn't feel it met my experience. I would conclude that until a kundalini awakened individual comes to deeply and fully trust their own kundalini unfoldment, they would do best to seek the guidance of an individual that is considerably more mature in their kundalini awakening.

Hi Kurt. Welcome to the forum.

I would suggest you check out this thread to see if there's anything that might help.

There are several others on this forum which might be helpful as well, particulary the ones on kundalini and psychi attacks. Use the forum index to access.

So far, I haven't found any technique or practice that's totally guaranteed to balance or relieve kundalini symptoms. Some of the suggestions from the threads mentioned above can help, however.

I can relate to the example of receiving unhelpful advice from spiritual teachers. It's certainly worth trying what they suggest,, but in the end, following the lead of our own "Inner Guidance" works best. Of course, even that requires a certain amount of education and formation.

Keep us posted on how you're doing.

Phil

Kurt,

Thank you indeed for responding to my email and taking the time to make yourself available on this thread to answer questions on Kundalini.

Phil

I followed your advice and asked someone worthy of respect to comment on the discussion on Kundalini. Kurt has done much better than that. He has joined the discussion and set himself up to answer any question. I'm deeply touched and grateful. I'm sure that this discussion will now take on a greater depth. There is much Kurt can contribute. I wish all of you God Speed in working out a healing strategy!

Thank you, Priya, for being so proactive in attempting to raise your awareness of kundalini issues. I'm apologize for what you interpreted as a personal attack and need to defend yourself, but we've actually had a problem on this board earlier where someone was trying to "help" and the advice disintegrated in that participant not only needing to feel like our advice guru, but also leading to a horrible display of complete emotional instability. I felt that what I perceived as your resistence , or what you deem as your "blessed ignorance" to understand the limited role pscyhology plays in kundalini disruptions was coming close to the same kind of discussion with our former emotionally unstable participant.

Re the Christian/kundalini application, it really hardly exists and Phil, God less him, is really a leading "expert," as far as attempting to understand and meld the modalities of various spiritual paths and kundalini with a Christian perspective. I think that's why we're all appearing on this board, to share and receive as much insight as possible about integrating good stuff from other paths with our traditional Chrisitan practice and belief. While many Christian saints have certainly gone through the symptoms of both a kundalini rising and imbalances, clearly, they and other Christian theologians, through time, have never labelled their process, as such. And spiritual practioners, even in the Christian mystical tradition, haven't addressed a lot of the pranic energy issues, other than in recent times in traditional pyschological or psychiatric labels. And even the new age types, like Carolyn Myss and her popular book, what it's called, Spiritual Madness, or something, that has become a bible in some circles about the kinds of emotional/mental/phsyical processing that takes place with a true spiritual walk doesn't really address these issues in terms of kundalini. (Myss is a former Catholic, and in fact, really views Christianity from a negative standpoint to other paths, and supports more of a cosmic christ standpoint, which really works against a true view of Christ's supremacy through Christian practice)

Kurt, I found your insights both supportive and helpful, and have experienced the same bland, yet well intentioned advice from similar sages myself. A bit like telling someone who's hungry to visualize a picture of food, when all you want is a banana.

Phil, do you feel "mature" in your kundalini walk? I know I'm more at ease with it today than I was, and certainly have investigated a lot of roads for help and people along the way, but how one's mind/body/spirit responds to the energy is such a mystery that when some new symptom arises, I'm pretty much back in babysteps.

priya, in one of our early threads on this forum, we had a listing for "Post your links on kundalini resources," or something like that. Dig through this forum index and add whatever you've found lately, with whatever comments you'd like to share about each. The one you pointed us to reminds me of several others, but it's good to see the interest.

Linda asked: Phil, do you feel "mature" in your kundalini walk? I know I'm more at ease with it today than I was. . .

I can echo those sentiments, Linda. After 17 years, I've grown accustomed to most of the commotion, and have developed a sensitivity to where the boundaries are, beyond which some activity or another will bring troubles. Within those boundaries, life is generally very good. The recent addenda to the first chapter of my book, now online, describes the in some detail. All in all, I consider it a great blessing, for all the struggle it's also brought.

Linda, when I laughed at myself about my ignorance on kundalini issues before I looked up Internet websites, this is the sort of knowledge that I was referring to:

George Arundale ‘s (taken from his book 'Kundalini, an Occult Experience') (1878-1945, an English theosophist , president in the theosophical society 1934 after Annie Besant) determined point of view is that the wise let Kundalini be left in peace. He said,
"The path of occultism, it is said, is strewn with wrecks. I venture to think that the path of the arousing of Kundalini, even if only in the first stages, is strewn with even more wrecks."

C.G.Jung wrote in his book “Memoirs, Dreams, Reflections’, based on his own experiments:
"One often hears and reads about the dangers of Yoga, particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini Yoga. The deliberately induced psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These things really are dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically Western way. It is a meddling with Fate, which strikes at the very roots of human existence and can let loose a flood of sufferings of which no sane person ever dreamed. These sufferings correspond to the hellish torments of the ch�nyid state... "

Now, not only Kundalini yoga can trigger psychoses. There have proven to be risks also in other methods as TM and other forms of meditation, Rebirthing and other breathwork, Qi-gong, Reiki, healing, automatic writing, swing of a pendulum, channeling etc. All methods, that have the raising of consciousness as a purpose, or where one in some way lets go of control, have proven to have risks.
We shall not let go of our control! We shall be "masters in our own house"!
"It means a dissolution of the unity of the 'bardo-body', which is a kind of 'subtle' body, building up the visible envelope around the psychic I in the state after death. Psychologically, this mutilation corresponds to psychic dissolution. In its most pernicious form it is equal to schizophrenia (split personality). This the most usual of all mental illnesses consists mainly of a pronounced 'abaissement du niveau mental', which breaks down the normal control mechanisms forced upon us by our conscious thinking, and thereby giving the unconscious 'dominants' total freedom....It means that you sacrifice the stability of the I, and capitulates for the utmost incertitude in something that only can appear as a chaotic mess of fantasmagorias. "
My science was my means and my only possibility to free myself from this chaos. Otherwise the material would stick to me as burdocks and marsh plants... Sometimes the contents of the unconscious almost reduced me to loose my sense and reason."
The few eastern gurus, who themselves have managed, through different sorts of efforts and methods, experience a glimpse of higher spiritual worlds, KNOW that one has to pass the astral level, i.e. "the zone of the dead", on the way. If one then does not have competent guidance, there is a big risk that you get stuck there and attract "energies", from whom it can be very hard to free oneself. They can stick to our aura and the effect of that, every sensible person can figure out for herself. This is the reason why the eastern spiritual exercises have been a secret for thousands of years."

Kurt pointed out to me that I should have restricted myself to writing passive comments and avoided making an attempt to give advice and coach.

Well, all the same foolish as I was to give advice at the wrong time and to the wrong persons, it does not imply an emotional imbalance! All members trained in the helping professions have a streak of that kind of emotional instability you know.

priya and Linda, I've deleted your most recent heated exchange as it contributes nothing to the thread topic.

What I'd suggest is that you two simply avoid interacting on any of these forums for awhile. Let things cool off a bit and then see what might be possible, if anything.

priya, I think Kurt's advice to you was good. What I'd suggest to you and anyone else who doesn't have experience of this process is that when attempting to give feedback to others, to refer them to relevant passages by authors who know the experience or who have worked with it--kind of like some of the quotes you've shared above. That would probably work best.

Phil

Hello everybody!

Kurt, Phil,

It has been suggested that any method/spiritual practice that raises the level of consciousness/energy level, is like pouring gasoline into a fire if the person is Kundalini impaired. So to suggest meditation of any sort as solution to the problem may only serve to aggravate it. Your comment?

My comments/questions on the quotes from George Arundale and CG Jung:

a) They are both non-Christians, so Jesus Christ with His power over everything including all energies and evil spirits didn't figure in their equation. Your comment?

b)Jung worked on the 'Tibetan Book of the Dead', so his mention of 'Bardo' or spirits of the dead: Did he mention that in referrence to Kundalini or in connection with Tibetan spiritual practices?

c)Jung said that his science saved him. Can science save the Kundalini impaired?

d)Eastern religions have been demystified. Many Lamas, Gurus and Bhodhisattvas have gone west. Could Jung's comment be irrelevent for today's westerners?

Phil

Thank you for inviting me back. I have accepted your invitation by putting together my contribution to the discussion on Kundalini on a separate thread, to bring my thoughts together, as it is a non-Kundalini approach that I discussed. I hope you will let it remain for the sake of those who are unfamiliar about Kundalini like me. Thank you very much! I wish that your discussions will continue as before.

It has been suggested that any method/spiritual practice that raises the level of consciousness/energy level, is like pouring gasoline into a fire if the person is Kundalini impaired. So to suggest meditation of any sort as solution to the problem may only serve to aggravate it. Your comment?

Yes, sometimes when the energy is very active, it is best to cut back on meditation. At other times, meditation seems to help integrate the process. One usually has an intuition of some kind about this, and what works best.

c)Jung said that his science saved him. Can science save the Kundalini impaired?

It can help, at times, if science in the broadest sense as emperical knowledge and study is considered. I wish there were more hard-core studies on this topic, and what helped, etc. That would be great.

Otherwise, my sense is that a holistic spirituality is what helps the most, especially a reliance upon the guidance of the Holy Spirit as mediated by Jesus Christ. Obviously, you can see the relevance of this view to your questions about Jung, whose psychology I generally like.

Thanks for visiting, and let's hear more from you.

Phil

Thanks Phil for answering my questions. By saying:

'Yes, sometimes when the energy is very active, it is best to cut back on meditation. At other times, meditation seems to help integrate the process. One usually has an intuition of some kind about this, and what works best.'

are you suggesting that meditation in 'moderation' (in fact everything should be done in moderation I supppose to prevent any acute and intense rise of energy levels), let's say between 10 and 20 minutes twice a day, could well be tolerated even by those suffering from a Kundalini imbalance, except during periods of acute attacks, which one probably must endure like an epileptic fit?

As to science, hasn't it come a long way since CG Jung? Studies have shown that psychoanalysis is not the best method for everyone and in all cases and even among those fit for analysis, about 70% do not improve in spite of long drawn analysis. The scepticism about using the science of psychoanalyis as a general remedy, apart from its horrendous expense and the time involved of course, is that: a) Not everyone can be analysed as one requires an analytical mind to understand the concepts of analysis to participate and respond adequately. b)It is almost useless in an acute situation. c)One can spend the rest of one's life digging up stuff from the unconscious and never be finished with the all stuff and the endless possibility for interpreting them. d) Although gaining awareness and insights is a vital first step, it does not in iteself bring about great changes in a person's behaviour.

Drugs to handle brain chemistry,including those available in alternative medicine and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy going hand in hand with a change of life-style to promote holistic healing, with each person choosing primarily from what is easily available locally and appeals to him/her personally, be it in the physical, emotional, mental or spiritual area seems to be the best available 'science' today to bring about real healing, including positive changes in a person's behaviour. Do you agree?

For the good old prayer, which may be helpful during times when meditation is not possible (or even as preparation for meditation), I found this:

http://www.jesuit.ie/prayer

As preparation for meditation, this:

http://www.coutreach.org

When one is strongly rooted in Christianity to integrate other religions this:

http://www.bedegriffiths.com

What are your opinions about these websites?

I highly recommend these resources, which are made available by Jim and Tyra Arraj.

A Christian Philosophical Explanation of Kundalini Energy
East - West Contemplative Dialogue

I really appreciate everyone's contributions in this area of contemplative dialogue, which is still in its pioneering stages. Maybe the fact that this dialogue is really in its infancy (considering the overall time spans of the great traditions), together with other factors, helps to make the dialogue feel both intellectually challenging and emotionally risky (at least, that's how it feels to me). I thank everyone who continues to take such challenges and risks and for your perseverance in solidarity and compassion. I know this isn't easy (because I have seldom been as forthcoming as others on certain matters, preferring to contribute anonymously on some matters).

I have long appreciated these links:

http://www.jesuit.ie/prayer

http://www.coutreach.org

http://www.bedegriffiths.com

Jim Arraj has raised some very pertinent questions about Centering Prayer at The Christian Prayer and Contemplation Forum. Those particular issues, as well as his questions and comments re: kundalini are ripe for discussion in this forum (and he invites and solicits feedback there as well). I never cease to be amazed at how a Thomist philosophy or metaphysics can remain fecund for dialogue with modern physics or postmodern metaphysics (whose demise was announced prematurely?).

SJ Thaikattil referenced holistic healing and, without speaking to any specific context, I wholeheartedly agree that multidisciplinary and holistic approaches are warranted, in general. After all, there are distinct mechanisms, phenomena and epiphenomena, which are dealt with in spiritual direction vs psychological counseling/support groups, pharmacologic therapy, diet, sleep, exercise, etc as well as "spiritual emergencies" [which might require mentoring by what is still a relatively small network of enlightened professionals]. For some in grief, I have reminded them that direction and counseling and drug therapy and support groups and trauma counseling ALL may be needed for varying durations during the grieving process (because, sometimes , folks erroneously think that one of these healing therapies should be enough). By way of analogy, is this multifaceted approach what some of you think may be called for in "some" acute spiritual emergencies, those that might be disrupting a person's home, school and work life, social interactions and relationships? while others, of course, get along quite well, especially if they find the right mentors or support groups/forums/networks/literary resources?

Good discussion. I defer

Thanks again.
pax tibi,
jb

p.s. Anyone have a comment on this book: Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis (New Consciousness Reader)by Stanislav Grof (Editor), Christina Grof (Editor) or

The Fires of Desire: Erotic Energies and the Spiritual Quest by Halligan and Shea ?

Thanks JB for responding to my post. I'm glad you are already familiar with the websites I mentioned. (It was not until after I had posted the last one that I noticed that Phil was away on holidays.)

I recommended holistic healing as a vital first step to handling even spiritual emergencies only because I'm of the opinion that if the body-emotions-thought patterns-spiritual fundament has not been 'cleared' first, all higher spiritual insights tends to get distorted by those sick areas, like water running into a gutter. You are absolutely right, there needs to be specialised spiritual counselling, but I add: only after the basics have been taken care of. I'm not familiar with the various schools of specialised counselling available, except psychosynthesis by Assagioli. Maybe I should then modify my statement to: For such specialised counselling to be really effective, one needs to prepare the ground with holistic healing, to clean out and close the gutters so to speak. Cleaning out the gutters may seem like a horrible waste of time to those who are spiritually ambitious and demand instant mysticism. The glaring ingnorance that we are all prey to is the fact that we tend to forget that those who went in search of mystical union with God devoted their whole lives to it, cut themselves off from the distractions of the world and spent several years living an extremely ascetic lifestyle and waited patiently for God to manifest Himself. But we expect God to do our bidding instantly, we want Him to behave like our trained dog after a crash course on meditation and we want mystical union with God while living very much in the world and without giving up any of the sensual pleasures. But sometimes He does answer our prayers and comes instantly at our bidding, leaving us crushed and exposing everything ungodly in us.

Thank you for those website recommendations. Since I'm not familiar with any of them I can't make any further comments. Thanks once again for taking the time to answer my questions to Phil.

I wonder what Phil/you mean by holistic spirituality and if Jung's psychoanalysis may be the science suited to the Kundalini impaired since Jung deals with all sorts of stuff from the unconscious, so that the Kundalini impaired may safely give scientific names to the energies they encounter from the fourth dimension. Doesn't Paul refer to the evil aspect of that dimension as the principalities and powers, with the heirarchy of angels representing the good spirits?

So far I know personally of only three cases where the attempt to reach great mystical states went dreadfully wrong. They didn't call it Kundalini imbalance of course. One of them landed in psychiatry and went back to a normal life after treatment, no more meditation after that. The other one got drugs, gave up meditation for a long time while following holistic healing methods (she mentioned the book by Stanislav Grof to me although I didn't get around to reading it) and then took up meditation on a low key again. She had given up her grand spiritual ambitions. The third person, who had spent many years going to several Hindu ashrams before his breakdown, finally settled down in a Christian ashram, did not get any drugs at all but participated quietly in the ashram routine, including the twice daily meditation. There was one big difference however - he was not allowed to talk about spiritual matters to guests despite his great knowlege in Hindu philosophy because that was when his attacks would come on and he would lose all self control, getting verbally aggressive and losing his train of thought.