quote:

Originally posted by Katy:
[qb] [/qb]

Oops, sorry.

freddy, if you go to MIETEK WIRKUS website you will find his publications and links on bioenergy work which includes some things on bodywork. i will think of some more. i am so happy you are recieving some relief, prayers and peace,rebecca

Oh Freddy,

Listen to your body....It will not lie, nor make assumptions.

And when you next hit your old pain in your bodywork, I pray that your facilitator will be able to stay with you all the way until you find the resolution you need for wholeness.

love

Such caring, kind-hearted people on this thread.

Nice to see!

quote:

Originally posted by Freddy:
Dear Katy & Rebecca,

Thanks to God, I have less pain these last 2 days. I am able to stay with myself, lying down and relaxing, while breathing and saying my Jesus-word. ...

I feel the body therapy will do me good!

That�s excellent, Freddy!
Well-founded bodywork, combined with the prayer you�re describing, is a great way to get a "grip" on certain things that might otherwise seem ineffable -- so that you may enhance a process of deep change.

Later, you may also wish to consider Derek�s sincere suggestion.

Peace be with you!

-- HeartPrayer

Dear Katy;

Did you read http://www.wellsprings.com.sg/...o&products_id=13511?
What is your opinion?

Is there anyone else on this forum who can help me in finding good books on healing from a Christian perspective (or in relation to monistic views as in transpersonal therapies)?

Can anyone who has experience with body therapies, say something about it?

Thanks,
Fred

Hi Freddy,

In response to your question, Can anyone who has experience with body therapies, say something about it?

I have had a great deal of experience with body therapies, both receiving and giving. I for one, could talk my way out of a paper bag, and still never get to the original wounds of my self. These occurred when I had no language.

I had been going around in circles, symbolising, metaphorising (if such a word exists ) analysing spiritualising ( remember I have been a spiritual director for many years so know the avoidance patterns ) etc., in other words doing anything my brain suggested to avoid feeling my pain. And then kundalini opened me up, and I had no choice but to do body work.

For me, I think I am now one of the lucky ones. All I have to do is lie on a mattress on the floor in a darkened room with a compassionate enlightened witness, and slowly allow my body to express its pain, its fear, its need, its anger. Usually the best way for me to go is to notice any physical feelings and move into them, letting them grow, and then finally giving them a sound or word, which is congruent with how I feel emotionally, then I have permission to allow that sound to emerge and express, until it takes on a life of its own. This is sacred work, and very healing.

No need for words, insights come usually in the quiet time at the end of the session.

Breathwork also plays a part for some in helping them to release the trapped energy of repressed feelings. I dont necessarily mean holotropic breathwork, but simply focussed circular breathing, a

The most essential component of these sessions is to have a facilitator who doesnt have an agenda for you, and also you must feel entirely safe, otherwise your body wont go to its place of need.

I hope this is of some help Freddy.

Beanacht

Freddy,

I have "Hildegard of Bingen's Medicine", but not the other book at the site. Really she doesn't say much about body work per se, but advocates the use of herbs, diet, and gemstones among other natural remedies. She claims she received spiritual visions from God about the use of these and other truths about health, and wholeness. The revelations she received have been found to be in agreement with modern science, says Dr. Wighard Strehlow & Gottfried Hertzka, M.D.

It makes for interesting reading, in my opinion, but there really isn't any information on body work, except for massage type treatments. She also writes about iridology.

I have had different kinds of body work in the past, including massage, feldenkrais, cranial sacral, zero balancing,reflexology and "Transformation breathing". I would say breathing has helped me the most, and massage. I have also practiced yoga exercises most of my life which I find very helpful.

Are you familiar with the Alexander Technique? It is similiar to Feldenkrais. You might like that.

Then there are many different kinds of relaxation techniques, of course.


Katy

Freddy, Here is something else you might be interested in. One of the therapists at the holistic center where I go, studied it extensively and I got this link at their website:

http://www.psychosynthesis.org/index.htm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Freddy:

"At 11 years I seem to have been very nervous and restless. I had nervous tics in my face and was a stammerer. At that time I went to a boarding school, where I was confronted with 2 paedophile brothers ('of love'!)."

Hi Freddy:

You write beautifully and it seems that you have searched long & hard for some answers. What you
said here especially stood out for me. But before I comment could you tell me please if these
were adult paedophile's brother's from within the Church who confronted you? Or were these other children who were also at the boarding school?

Thanks
Ajoy

Dear Ajoy (JOY!),

These were indeed adult people, supervising the boarding school. I don't remember having been approached by one of them, but many children were.
Was it your experience too?

Greetings,
Fred

Hi Freddy,

As i mentioned in my email to you, ( I was too busy to write to you in detail, ) and I have now responded in full to your initial post around suffering, ( this is in word format ) but I have noticed that I am not getting any feedback from my posts here, so perhaps what I offer is not in sync with you, and perhaps might be triggering you. Thus I will not post my full response unless you would wish me to.

Perhaps what you receive from Katy et al, is what you need for now.

Beannacht

Hi Clare,

Thanks for your message. I hadn't seen it, until now. It is very important what you are saying. I said earlier I had made an appointment with: http://www.bodymindintegration.com/centrumEs.html
http://posturalintegration.info/DirkMarivoet.html
on Friday. D. Marivoet has a lot of experience in body therapies and is reknowned for it here in Belgium. But something terrible has happened. Last week, an ex-colleague-friend has committed suicide and I have to go to the funeral on Friday (tomorrow). Please pray for Frank and his family!
I recognize your practice, Clare! At morning, waking up, my pain is most intense and after work, coming home, I (the child in me) am rather lonely, melancholic, depressed, sad, isolated. Then I pray a while (the rosary or the Jesus prayer and I observe the pain objectively, lying down on my back. I say a word or expand my body through awareness/imagination. A Flemish carmelite monk from Sweden http://www.karmel.be/Webpages/...by/KL_Norraby_P1.htm wrote me a very good letter. He has written excellent books: http://www.bookfinder.com/author/wilfried-stinissen/ and http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF...d%20Stinissen&page=1 and http://www.amazon.ca/nuit-comm...lumine/dp/2847130462 He advices me to let go, let go, let go,i.o.w. the humble way of St. Th�r�se of Lisieux. Did you read her autobiography, 'Story of a soul'?

Clare, in July I am going on pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostella and in August to Medjugorje. Please pray for me!
In the meantime, the physical pain during the day is a little less intense, thanks to God.

Thanks again for the sincere care!

In Christ,
Fred

Someone wrote me:

I guess you found my email address at www.Christaquarian.net . You may find another website I designed, www.SpiritualCrisisNetwork.org.uk also useful to you at this time. Personally, I do not think God wants us to suffer - even though we can, like St John, Job et al, learn much from our dark nights; there is so much more to learn and enjoy when we are at home with ourselves. Paul Vitz gives a very one-sided, conservative approach to psychology, and as you mention, many Christians are quite comfortable with psychotherapy - many Christians are psychotherapists, of course.

I would encourage you to seek out a therapist locally whom you can relate with. In my humble opinion, again, while I can see you could talk psychological concepts for hours, maybe you need a less abstract/theoretical therapist? You mention body therapies. As I'm sure you are aware, many Christians are open to bodywork nowadays - even in local churches and surprisingly even also in charismatic/pentecostal circles.

From what you write, I would recommend something quite "grounded" and tactile, and not some of the more lofty practices such as the kundalini and chakra work you mention. Again speaking personally, I have found Japanese-style body massages very effective; but each of us needs to seek out what is available locally and suitable to our life histories.

Do let me know how you get on.

Yours in Christ,
Daren Kemp

Hello Freddy �

I just read your story and can so identify with the depth of the struggle�What Clare said about listening to your body and allowing the feeling(s) to go to it�s completion is the path that has so, so helped me in my 15+ years of healing. It was my most important form of prayer for years when I was doing the bulk of my healing/bodywork/ deep process work 5-10 years ago.

I have used PRI www.pastrealityintegration.com
on myself with Christ as my facilitator, many, many, times over the past 6+ years. While I definitely agree with the challenges with secular therapist like PRI ( Bosch has a few particularly ignorant pages and typical slams against Christianity in her book as does Alice Miller in one of her recent books) AND, imho this takes nothing away from the truth and effectiveness of the healing. As Aquinas said, �if it is true it is of God!�
Also as Thomas Keating says, God is the best therapist. I pray that you get out of your head and allow the incarnational body of Christ that you ARE to speak and process the pain. Insight and interpretation are of minimal help. You are safe and OK as an adult here now with the blessed Trinity flowing through you, in you, and desiring your complete healing!!

I have been healed completely from SSA (same sex attraction), depression, and crushing anxiety so intense I could barely eat for weeks. I work with people as a wellness coach and with their deep pain if they want to look that deep at the roots of their unhealthy behaviors. www.deepwellnessworks.com I will pray for you, and your friend and his family.

Peace, all good, and healing

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by Freddy:
[qb]
These were indeed adult people, supervising the boarding school. I don't remember having been approached by one of them, but many children were.
Was it your experience too?
[/qb]

Dear Fred:

As a child I experienced religious abuse but not of the nature you have mentioned. It was a
result of being raised in a Hell & Brimstone type church. Scared the living daylights out of
me. Left no place internal or external that was safe.

You wrote:

"I feel deprived from my deepest self and nature."

Fred, do you think that your relationship with G*d may have been violated & injured during
your stay at this boarding school? I ask this because when my internal life & relationship
with YHWH was corrupted it was difficult to go internal. How could I trust a god that I was
taught was vengeful & angry to strike me down dead and send me to hell. How was I going to
surrender to this kind of a god! Why would I even want to.

I don't remember when an internal longing began within me. A longing to know what Jesus
meant by Love one another as I have Loved you. What does it mean to love myself and
others unconditionally. I feel that this was YHWH reaching out to me that then opened
me to reaching back. My understanding & experience continues to deepen.

What way do you believe G*d is reaching out to you?

Ajoy

freddy, did you know that God is actually healing you at this very moment? why? because we have asked Him to, and more importantly because of His divine Mercy and Love. this is more REAL than your pain.i know that you are getting closer and closer to recieving a healing! prayers and Love in Christ, rebecca

freddy, please don't take offense, or think i am minimizing your pain. by more 'real', i mean in the spirit. often when a healing takes place it happens in our etheric body before it happens in our physical body. of course we may only 'feel' or sense it when it is happening in the etheric level, but will not get relief until it is made complete.

Thank you Alan, Ajoy, Rebecca and all the other good people over there...

Dear Alan, I understand you. This is the path I am going right now. Next Friday I have made an appointment with a good body therapist and after the funeral of my ex-colleague (who committed suicide) I spoke with someone (not accidentally) who has practiced Pesso and Postural Integration therapy for many years. One of her 'things' is also 'dancing' (5 rythms of Roth). I don't know enough of PRI, though the guy I spoke about is always willing to assist me...
Dear Ajoy, I had a prophecy years ago. Jesus said he would heal me and also that I never had turned my back on Him, notwithstanding everything. I have always been searching for God.
Dear Rebecca, thanks for the (as always) kind and encouraging words. Richard Rohr wrote me the same, namely that healing has begun, to him because of my openness and sincerity.
I had a wonderful week-end with the Laura (from the Greek 'lavra', which means a small alley linking the cells of the desert fathers), a small lay community around the Benedictine monk Beno�t Standaert:
http://monasticdialog.com/a.php?id=521, http://www.lannoo.com/content/...ode=11152&fondsid=13
It was so good, the warm exchanges and the fulness of what is offered: praying psalms, lectio divina, Jesus prayer, Eucharist, rituals...
Thanks to God!

PAX,
Fred

freddy, thanks so much for the update. i thank God and praise Him for the wisdom of His ways! i am so grateful that He is sending nurturing and teaching people to you! praise Him! ( remember, that was one of the first things we prayed for?!) i am so grateful that He has sent them to you at this time, as you grieve for your friend.i have had too many friends commit suicide, and it is such a difficult grieving process. my prayers are with you and your friends family.we praise Him and thank Him for this day! rebecca

Dear ones,

Is someone of you familiar with http://www.posturalintegration.info/?
How do these deep anthropological insights on the unity of the human person (body-mind-soul, body-soul-spirit...)relate to Christian anthropology?

Greetings,
Fred

Freddy,

How would it be for you, if these deep anthropological insights regarding postural integration don't relate in anyway to Christian anthropology? That they stand on their on, as a separate way of working with healing !

Could you accept that, and simply accept them as another modality?

Beannacht

freddy, yes i am familiar with similar methods and practices,close to what is described by Painter on the website you posted on P.I., and of course there are countless books written using similar techniques. some of the leaders in the field (i have read and attended conferences with) are,larry dossey(RECOVERING THE SOUL,and,HEALING BEYOND THE BODY;MEDICINE AND THE INFINITE REACH OF THE MIND)and caroline myss. i prefer LARRY DOSSEY.one of the first books i read( back in the 70's) was PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS,by maxwell maltz( he has since come out with many updates, the most rescent in 2004)it struck me that Painter said,"our respiration is the key to maintaining an easy balance between the charge and the discharge of our energy." this is confirmed of course by many sources both in eastern practices and in modern western practices. the energy /healing work study at the bethesda maryland hospital, with mietek wirkus( i wrote you about earlier)depends a great deal on breath work to balance the energy. it sounds like Painter is using ROLFING techniques with the breathwork. this work can be very useful, but to me, it does not trump the amazing results you can get from the simple jesus prayer. after all, all Truth comes from God and no matter what belief system you are involved in,( as long as it believes in THE ONE TRUE GOD)if we are humble and sincere(pure) of heart when we ask, we shall recieve.God reveals it in a way and time in which we are ready to recieve it. if that means that we need breathing and massage work, then so be it!the danger we have is fighting our egoism, and the belief that we can do it on our own. we should not underestimate the power of the jesus prayer.go where God leads you and do not be discouraged by lack of "results" you can be sure something is happening in the spirit and will soon reach our physical being.also do not have any fear at all when results begin to apear. just speak belief and thankfulness over your body.the fear we have (especially from not being nurtured as a child)is the most damaging to our healing. again, we can all stand in the gap for you and pray for your healing and i will continue to do that. i hope this was somewhat helpful. peace and prayers, rebecca p.s.if you would like me to write out my favorite prayers that i use with breathing, i would be happy to. i assume that you have your own.

Dear Rebecca,

Wonderful! I feel we are moving along the same line... I know some of the names you mention and I am certain about good and helpful things in all this. At the same time, I am a Christian and I believe that our deepest essence is hidden with Christ in God. There isn't any psychology or therapy that can address our deepest core. In this sense I don't know whether Paul Vitz in his 'Psychology as Religion' is as conservative and narrow-minded as some pretend he is! I spoke to Clare about the writings of Jean Lafrance, a real staretz and man of prayer: http://www.alibris.com/search/...hor/LaFrance,%20Jean. He writes very deep, real prayer can only come from the depth of our misery, a radical spirituality from below... and he speaks of the primal scream!
It is amazing, but yesterday I have practiced a lot the Jesus Prayer. I had a good sleep and less pain this morning. Thanks to all your prayers, healing is slowly advancing. Indeed all truth comes from God and He knows best our innermost secrets and pains. Therefore I love the Psalms!
By the way, how do you think about (without judging) people like Ken Wilber. I read a moving letter of him to Huston Smith, who seems to be old and sick: http://www.kenwilber.com/news/list/1 But what the half-naked woman is doing there...
Please send your prayers.
A good book on word prayers is:
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com...hors/frgroeschel.asp
Do you like Merton?
I have written a lot of texts before. One text is a sort of spiritual diary of my stay in a Cistercian abbey (Westmalle), but it's in Dutch. I am planning to write a book later on, when I get more balanced between head and heart!
Are you interested in religion and arts (music, poetry, plastic arts, film...)? Go to the thread on imagination...
What I also find most intruiging is the whole universe of symbolis, rituals, metaphors, ethymology...
A woman from the Netherlands, hetty Draaijer, disciple of Graf von Durckheim, once saw the entire acupuncture system before her inner eye, without 'knowing' anything about it.
I am a painter myself. Later I can send you some pics of my paintings, if you give me your e-mail address. If you want to, I send you a list of the most inspiring books I possess.

Warm regards in Christ,
Fred

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...780/christianministr ???

Fred