Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Christian Spirituality Issues Open, new heart, open, new mind (Ez.)?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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LOL! I hear what you are saying... I am not gifted intellectually like some of the posters around here and I get confused really easily when I try to keep up with them. Sometimes intellectual giftedness, when not working in coordination with the Holy Spirit, can crowd out the presence of our loving Savior, the Lord Jesus. It reminds me of a story told by Heidi Baker when she was ministering at Harvard a few years ago... had a student approach her saying he was having difficulty understanding Jesus, and she prayed for God to make his heart bigger than his head and he soon after had a powerful and authentic encounter with the presence of the living God! Peace and blessings, Caneman | ||||
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"...she prayed for God to make his heart bigger than his head and he soon after had a powerful and authentic encounter with the presence of the living God!" Caneman, that about says it all, huh! Thanks for your reply. Katy | ||||
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Phil, Thank you for coming in here. Your question is very to the point. I have gone a long way, you know! This is the main point: I don't want tu 'use' God (which is impossible) as a milk cow (Eckhart) and I agree with (because I experience it) negative theology/apophaticism/processes of dark nights/cloud of unknowing/kenosis... Therefore I spoke about de Caussade/de Liguori a.o. before on the 'uniformity to Divine Will' and the 'sacrament of the moment'. As Paul says: 'Say thanks for everything...!' The same with Carothers: http://www.alibris.com/search/...others,%20Merlin%20R. Some people say we cannot talk about providence anymore in this way, because of the contingency of life and this world and because of our own free will. It cannot be God's Will that we were wounded in our childhood,so how do we deal with this? Through praising, thanking, blessing or through some kind of therapy. It strikes me that Keating (notwithstanding your right remark about getting closer to God over against wishing to be delivered from suffering) is always speaking about the healing effects (!) of Centering Prayer. But, thinking about it, what do you exactly mean? To grow closer to God in prayer, surrender and acceptance of what is happening (de Caussade), while at the same time look for relief in again another therapy? Or 'simply' only the first thing? Or is getting closer to God not also healing? This morning the painful energies in my body (head, chest, throat) were very intense. Every day it is different. I was getting quite afraid of having done the reiki session on Monday. I think I better stop this stuff, though the practitioner seemed to me well grounded... Did you read what I was saying above about the energies of God? Christianity seems to be much broader than the Church in the West is making from it. I am getting more and more convinced that there is a lot of truth in New Age, Traditionalism, perennial philosophy, sophianism, gnosticism; Christian esotericism. Did you read Ficino, de Cusa, della Mirandola, Vico, R. Gu�non, F. Schuon,... see http://www.worldwisdom.com/pub...spx?Display=Authors? Reading about Orthodox Christianity (K. Ware, O. Cl�ment, V. Lossky), I became aware of a much deeper and in fact different Christianity. Here theology and mysticism are still one and they didn't loose the important sacralness of liturgy and life in general! Moreover there are certainly links between the core of the different religions. At the same time, with people like W. J�ger through his Zen training the essential point of the cross of Christ seems to be getting blurred. I have ordered 3 more books (to read later on!!!): Robin Amis 'A different Christianity', Richard Smoley 'Inner Christianity' and Ren� Gu�non 'Insights in Christian esotericism'. As I said I made a study before on 'inclusivism' and 'exclusivism' in the Bible and throughout the centuries. Now I am coming back to it. I don't have it digitally and in English, otherwise I would send it to you! Greetings, Fred | ||||
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Katy, You wrote me before that you have gone through a lot of body work? Do you feel any growth by this and what was it that reiki did to you? Thanks, Fred | ||||
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Phil, Are these folks after all confusing mysticism with gnosticism? Western Christian mysticism seems to be something quite different from gnosticism... Fred | ||||
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Freddy, interestingly, I had tightness and discomfort in my chest, and when she did the reiki I could feel the energy disperse.. the discomfort was gone; however I still get the tightness from time to time. She, the Reiki practitioner is also my massage therapist. My holistic Dr. "prescribed" massage for me many years ago, for fibromyalgia and anxiety. My Dr. and massage therapist and other bodywork therapists are all there at the holistic health center.. And yes, it helps. BTW, my massage therapist is very spiritual, and every year goes on a private retreat at the monastery in or near (?) Bardstown, Ky. I don't really know, though, and she has never said that she is "officially" a Christian. Katy | ||||
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Freddy, I'm hearing two lines of inquiry and search from you: one, to sort out the many questions you have about human nature, mysticism, gnosticism, etc., and the other to find relief from some of the painful struggles you've been having. I think these are separate but related issues -- i.e., I don't think intellectual clarity concerning anthropology or mysticism will necessarily bring relief from your suffering, and I don't think interventions that provide relief will answer your questions. On my own journey, I've found that there were times to read, and times not to. Clearly, one can try to do too much with the mind, and one can also neglect its development. How to know which/when? I suspect that, in your present situation, taking a break from reading would help to bring perspective. What's been relevant in your reading will remain, what's irrelevant will fade away. Nurturing your faith through simple contemplative practices like times for silence, prayer, walks, etc. could be helpful. This might even relieve some of the painful symptoms you describe to settle down a bit. We can over-stimulate the mind, and when we do, the emotions and the body often experience consequences. So why not set the books and reading aside for awhile, or else scale back? See what happens. Peace. Phil | ||||
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Thanks to Phil and Katy. Yes, Phil, I'll follow your advice and try to let go of my addiction to reading. I am still at home with my foot, having kine every 2 days. I am not very mobile yet, so I have plenty of time and sometimes feel very useless about this. But prayer is in itself probably the most non-utilitarian thing to do but at the same time the most deep practice in life... Katy, Phil a.o. like Clare and many other Christians are rather sceptical about practicing Reiki or working with energies as a Christian. I went to one session and have doubts about going back. I don't like those messages of ascended masters like St. Germain and sorts... Am I probably too critical? I guess Douglas Groothuis, the evangelical apologetist against cults and sects is maybe too critical? PAX, Fred | ||||
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Freddy, I really think that it depends on who is doing the reiki. I wouldn't want the energy of someone associated with ascended masters either. However I would have a session with a Catholic nun who practices reiki. Katy | ||||
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Dear Phil and Clare, Since yesterday and this morning it is so difficult to stay with the pain, to breathe well, to expand my body awareness, my thinking went here and there again. I was asking myself things about spiritual warfare and the power of proclamation and praise (Carothers) vs. the antirhettic 'method' of the desert fathers (Evagrius Ponticus). Sometimes I feel things changing in my mind (spirit) through praising God, reciting Psalm 23... Since Christ is the ultimate Healer, I wonder whether this is not of utmost importance. Someone like Watchman Nee ('The spiritual man') said remarkable, although sometimes hard things about all this. I talked with you Clare on the phone and I guess you will say that you tried all this, but still needed therapy. I'll call the Primal-therapist in Brussels. Now I am going to an Orthodox service here in Ostend. Greetings, Fred | ||||
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Ah, Merlin Carothers. I haven't heard that name since the 70's. I devoured Prison to Praise, when I first came up on it then, and it saved my life for a few years....It was like valium for my soul, but then I needed more, much more, so I went into the silence. I did spiritual cold turkey, and up came the pain in all its glory, but I knew I couldn't do it alone. Phil asked if you have a spiritual director? do you? I still have a spiritual director, as well as having had deep feeling psychotherapy. Both were necessary for me. Now no longer need spiritual valium, just multivitamin in the form of the Holy Spirit who comes disguised in the kindness and graciousness of a listening ear, a gentle holding, a reference of my pain, and an assurance that all will be well. Beannacht Clare Ps Katy, you mention John Martin Sahajanda. I know him well. Used to go to his retreats here in Ireland. He is a beautiful man, and I loved his first book also - Man is more than Religion. Thank you for reminding me of him. C | ||||
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The last post should read reverence of my pain, not reference. C | ||||
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Clare, that is very cool that you know JMS.  I also used to read the Merlin Carothers praise books.. they were very popular in the 70's, and my spiritual counselor at the time tried to drum it into my head to say "Thank you, Jesus", no matter what. Freddy you can't go wrong praising God! I don't know what Watchman Nee says about it, but I have read things also against the "praising God for everything" 'heresy'". I do believe we are to praise God IN everything. MHO. Katy | ||||
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Freddy, Here's something I read this morning and I thought of you. "If you are searching, You must not stop until you find. When you find, however, You will become troubled. Your confusion will gave way to wonder. In wonder you will reign over all things. Your sovereignty will be your rest." From the Gospel of Thomas Katy | ||||
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Hi Fred: Perhaps this may be another thing to consider. I learned this the hard way & i apologize if i am being too forward here. Continuous reading or going from one practice & healing modality to another can stir up the pot unnecessarily.In other words issues are brought to the surface prematurely. This can create enormous stress on the body & mind as the foundation has not been created to integrate what is surfacing. The difficulty with breathing,if doctors have not found a physical problem, can be shear terror of having more & more stuff being brought up prematurely. There is a flow to this process based on G*D's timing of when issues should be brought to the surface. A deepening in one's relationship with Jesus that is built. Personally i'd look into doing Lectio Divina outdoors, if possible. Regain that connection & balance with G*D & relationship with Jesus. Also i've found that diet is incredibly important. It is these nutrients that are feeding the mind & body. Ajoy
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Dear Clare, Thanks again for the talks by phone. On Wednesday I have an appointment with the Primal therapist in Brussels. It is the last therapy I try now. I stopped the reiki thing and felt after prayer that this is the right choice anyway! Pray for me Wednesday afternoon. Thanks to Katy and Ajoy. Good suggestions. Pray that I can get out of my isolation and know the path I have to go. I want to serve the Lord, but don't know how or where yet... Fred | ||||
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Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Christian Spirituality Issues Open, new heart, open, new mind (Ez.)?