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I'm still reading Philip Yancey...almost finished with another of his books. Last night he posed a question that I've been pondering myself, but hadn't yet been able to put into words. Here is his question: "How do we recognize quality of any type--physical beauty, ingelligence, athletic ability--without devaluing those who lack such gifts." BOY...is that a QUESTION or WHAT?? He goes on to say: "Our world rewards the gifted at the expense of the less gifted." I guess our world likes to turn everything into a competition, labeling us all as winners and losers. It's so hard to change one's thinking about these things isn't it? Wouldn't it be wonderful if I really COULD appreciate people and their gifts without somehow feeling inadequate myself, and judging so many other people around me to be inadequate also?? Guess that's my prayer for today. Anne | ||
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re: "How do we recognize quality of any type--physical beauty, ingelligence, athletic ability--without devaluing those who lack such gifts." You know, Anne, sometimes it seems to me that every theological question is just another way of asking the one fundamental theological question: Why can't I be God? I'll pose another question: How do we recognize God's attributes without devaluing people? Maybe, in a sense, it's the same question posed above? Even the theodicy question of how can a good God allow evil and suffering touches upon that more fundamental question. There are a few courageous authors and speakers, such as Scott Peck, who opens his book with Life is difficult or Richard Rohr, who acknowledges This is an unjust world . I think it was in your recent thread on God's Will where we discussed how we remain immersed in mystery regarding God's inscrutable designs. This is not to say we don't transcend suffering or that we can't glean meaning from it. I think one of the real spiritual challenges on life's journey involves our getting to the point where we are okay with not being God (and, hopefully, allowing others the same luxury  ) . This is the same underlying dynamism that is involved in embracing mystery, tolerating paradox, recognizing God as the Unsolved Remainder (Rahner), finding wisdom in uncertainty (Watts), etc It also seems to me that if we don't meet this challenge we will remain scandalized by the Incarnation and we will refuse to see creation analogically, that is to say permeated by God's presence with the sacred everywhere, but will otherwise only see it, in relationship with God, dialectically, that is to say radically separated from God with the sacred located elsewhere, if it exists at all. Some people are more beautiful (in the common usage of this term). Some people are more intelligent. Some people are more athletic. And it is not fair. It is an unjust condition and we don't know why and it is a problem. But with eyes of faith all are an icon of Jesus. For those of faith, who believe we are fashioned in the image and likeness of God, who therefore radically and unconditionally nurture, sustain and affirm human dignity, another person is never devalued. There is then no need to elaborate some radically egalitarian, politically correct vocabulary to reinvest dignity in those who aren't similarly gifted or naturally endowed in one manner or another, for ALL have fallen short of the glory of God and ALL are destined for glory. If there is no afterlife, truly, some are far more pitiable than others. All are destined for a glory, the weight of which can not be measured in the same balance as weighs our sufferings. This has tremendous import for how we value one another, for, in addition to the fact that we have a common origin, we have a common destiny. No one says this better than C.S. Lewis, in his The Weight of Glory: I wonder how such a belief might inform one's meta-ethics and ethics. Another thread, maybe on euthanasia or disabilities (or differently abled-ness)? pax tibi, jb | ||||
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"How do we recognize quality of any type--physical beauty, ingelligence, athletic ability--without devaluing those who lack such gifts." BOY...is that a QUESTION or WHAT?? He goes on to say: "Our world rewards the gifted at the expense of the less gifted." Oh, Anne � great post! There�s enough material there to last weeks. My conservative fingers are tingling even now. Easy, Brad, easy. If our world didn�t reward the gifts we all have then what would we be left with? The old Soviet Union or any other communistic or heavily socialistic system are perfect examples of what happens when people are not allowed to flourish, when their individual talents are NOT appreciated and rewarded. The idea that �Our world rewards the gifted at the expense of the less gifted� is not, as a rule, true in a capitalistic market economy in the confines of a democracy. There is a saying that a rising tide lifts all ships, and if you just look around you in this great country of America almost anyone can see that this is true. I entered into existence and had all the food I needed, a fairly decent public education and, with some training and hard work, am able to provide myself with a decent enough living. Almost none of this is of my own doing. I stand on the shoulders of giants and these giants are those that have put in place a great system where individual achievements are nourished and the accumulative effect is great riches for everyone. Compare the lives of what we call the �average� poor in this country with the truly poor of other countries or the poor of yesteryear. It is not a total exaggeration to say that many of this country�s poor, with televisions and homes and good food to eat and a safe country in which to live, are better off than the Kings of the 13th century. They will likely live longer and have better health care available to them. As far as acknowledging those with gifts �without devaluing those who lack such gifts�, I�m afraid I smell just a little too much modern day �self esteem� gobbledy gook in this. The only obligation we have as a society is to guarantee equal opportunity, not equal outcome. Yes, we all have different talents. Some people�s talents are extremely marketable (in terms of money), others are not. But we all have talents of some kind. The notion that to point out the talents of people is to automatically hurt others with lesser talents is hog wash. The end result of this type of thinking is that no one should stand out from any other for fear of hurting someone�s feelings. That�s not what we want. That�s a recipe for sorrow, frustration and mediocrity. What we want to do is to celebrate other people�s talents, and in doing so to have them inspire US to fulfill whatever talents we have. At some point we all just have to recognize that we�re never going to play the piano in Carnegie Hall or be on the cover of Vogue, but we may well be able to do something else that no one else can do, no matter what it is or how humble it may be. | ||||
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In support of the gentleman from Washington State, I beg the court of opinion to accept into evidence Exhibit A, the testimony of Ron Rolheiser: Taking our Rightful Place with the Scheme of Things | ||||
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I suppose the trick to avoiding comparisons with others wherein we come out on the long or short end of the stick (neither of which is more beneficial in the spiritual life, btw) is to accept oneself just as one is, without judgment. We can do a lot to develop our attitude in this direction by paying attention to what beliefs we buy into, and which we reject, but the ultimate realization of this self-acceptance comes from contemplation spirituality. I've just never seen it work very well any other way, but then I haven't seen everything yet! What this means is literally losing oneself in God, the divine, etc., allowing the old self-concept and its identifications to die, and ultimately awakening to the realization that we are an abode in and through which the divine knows itself, and we the divine. Because this particular experience belongs to me and no one else, no one can take it away or have a "better" one that I do. It is the Gospel pearl of great price, the treasure hidden in the field, the reign of God realized in one's own being. Kind of hard to make a big deal out of good looks and wealth once this sort of thing begins to be tasted.  | ||||
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BTW, Anne. I think you've proven, if even just a little bit, some special qualities by even asking the questions that you've asked. I've got self esteem issues up the kazoo. The remarkable thing is that if we were to somehow magically know the minds and hearts of some of the people that we ourselves view as successful and talented we would, in many cases, be quite surprised at the misery hidden underneath. No, I'm not happy about this. Knowing this really doesn't do much to make me feel any better. In spite of feeling more than just a little jealous at times I wouldn't really wish anything but a happy life on other people. The thing is, we might actually be pretty damn normal and just not know it. Realizing this, if only superficially, it's a bit easier to stop comparing ourselves with others. Yeah, there are a lot of things I want that I don't have and some of them I know I will never get. Filling those empty spots is one of the most challenging things in life. Let me know when ANY of you find the secret to that. | ||||
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and ultimately awakening to the realization that we are an abode in and through which the divine knows itself, and we the divine. Because this particular experience belongs to me and no one else, no one can take it away or have a "better" one that I do Strange that you should say that, Phil, since I was recently just lying in bed on the way to the Land of Nod when I started thinking something tangentially similar (and then couldn't go to sleep for another 45 minutes, but that's another story). Setting aside theology for the moment, which is sort of inappropriate for this forum but I'm going to do it anyway, some old thoughts and ideas came flooding in. The thoughts were mainly about the idea that this ol' universe itself (almost as if it was a living enitity trying desperately to understand itself) was who I was at that very moment. I supposed that I was a bit of the universe's own consciousness that, because of customs and obligations and duties and the myriad of other things that keep us so absorbed in our lives and in our selves, suddenly remembered who it was. It's a strange feeling sometimes to have consciousness and yet not have any memory or feeling of a deeper connection to things that we obviously are so deeply connected to. In a way that then made my pair of eyes somehow more important, more special. As a bit of consciousness floating out there with really no way to know what came before or what might come next, you can get a slight sense of "mission," as if you were on an expedition to soak up what you could of the universe while you had the chance. No event is then too mundane. It's sort of like thinking that the universe went to a HELL of a lot of trouble to put me in the position of being conscious of, say, cleaning my toilet. But in some real way it did. I'd be glad to send you all video tapes of that event if your consciousness needs to explore some uncharted domains. | ||||
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As far as making comparisons, I've always said that the chief problem does not lie in how we see ourselves measuring up, one versus another, but rather in picking up the yardstick in the first place. Whether we feel inferior or superior in such a measuring/comparison process, the sin of pride is still involved. I say this because some seem to confuse humility with inferiority complexes (which are just another form of vanity or pride). Humility involves being close to humus, to earth, aware of our radical innate poverty and close to our glorious roots, Primal Ground! | ||||
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As far as making comparisons, I've always said that the chief problem does not lie in how we see ourselves measuring up, one versus another, but rather in picking up the yardstick in the first place. That's a great point. I'm going to lay down that yardstick faster than anyone ever has before. | ||||
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jb wrote: <<You know, Anne, sometimes it seems to me that every theological question is just another way of asking the one fundamental theological question: Why can't I be God?>> Wow,jb, that's a good one! We could call that one THE question of QUESTIONS! Next time somebody asks ME one of those *why?* questions, I'm gonna come back with that one. Whattaya think?? <<For those of faith, who believe we are fashioned in the image and likeness of God, who therefore radically and unconditionally nurture, sustain and affirm human dignity, another person is never devalued.>> Yes, that's how I see it. Thank you for saying it so well for me. BTW, I've read nearly all of Ron Rolheiser's stuff, and he has some wonderful things to say about this, doesn't he? Thanks for your sharing. More later. Anne | |||
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Brad wrote: <<At some point we all just have to recognize that we’re never going to play the piano in Carnegie Hall or be on the cover of Vogue, but we may well be able to do something else that no one else can do, no matter what it is or how humble it may be.>> Hi Brad, And it may be that somebody else CAN do what we do.....they just can't do it the WAY that we do it. Thanks for your sharings. You've given me much food for thought. I really wasn't so hung up on the "people getting their feelings hurt" business as much as the fact that our society is so darn fickle about WHAT it decides to reward. And if the way that society rewards talents is working so well, then why are there so many unhappy, restless people around? I think it's because we're given the message that we have to PROVE that we are special, and people spend way too much time and energy trying to prove that they are special. I'm sick of everybody needing so darned much attention!! After I read your first post, Brad, I thought, Wow, here's a really secure guy! You sure had me fooled! Here's somebody who can appreciate everybody else's talents and not be threatened by them. That's where I WANT to be!! I WANT to put away the measuring stick!! I KNOW I'm guilty of the sin of pride, as johnboy mentioned in his post. But WANTING to put away the measuring stick is so much easier than actually putting it away.  Phil wrote: <<What this means is literally losing oneself in God, the divine, etc., allowing the old self-concept and its identifications to die, and ultimately awakening to the realization that we are an abode in and through which the divine knows itself, and we the divine. Because this particular experience belongs to me and no one else, no one can take it away or have a "better" one that I do. It is the Gospel pearl of great price, the treasure hidden in the field, the reign of God realized in one's own being. Kind of hard to make a big deal out of good looks and wealth once this sort of thing begins to be tasted.>> WOW...that was SO beautifully said!! Thanks, Phil. I particulary like the idea that no one can have a better experience of "me" than ME!! Great way of putting it!! But, even if I *know* it in my head, it's obvious that I don't always *feel* it in my heart. Maybe I haven't reached that "tasting" point yet?? So much work to do.... NOW.....totally off topic, but wanted to tell you all that my 84-year-old mother had a car accident this afternoon and totaled the almost-new car that she and my 85-year-old dad had bought early this year. She made a left turn in front of an oncoming car on a two lane state highway. Seeing the car (at the wrecker's) gave me a rather sick feeling in my stomach. It's hard to believe that she came away without any broken bones--not even a scratch. Just shaken up and sore. BOY...those airbags really work!! Helps one to keep things in perspective, too. Anne | |||
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I really wasn't so hung up on the "people getting their feelings hurt" business as much as the fact that our society is so darn fickle about WHAT it decides to reward. You�ve run into one of my major pet peeves, Anne. I walked up to the park near my place a couple weeks ago and there happened to be a baseball game in progress. The kids on the two teams were 13 years old or so. It was some type of organized league game so there were all the usual accoutrements of a �real� baseball game; fancy uniforms, umpires, coaches, and even a crowd of spectators. Both teams played well and you could tell they put a lot of pride into not only playing well but comporting themselves like little professionals. I was standing on the first base side watching the game and talking to a friend I had run into whose son was on one of the teams. The cheering from this side of the diamond was pretty wholesome stuff; lots of cheers for good plays and �good tries� when outs were made. The other side of the diamond was a different story though. Remember, these kids aren�t playing for anything more than fun, pride and maybe a little bragging rights. Well, at one point in the game the other team had a big inning, and as each hit was collected and each runner scored there was such a noise that it made you wonder why you hadn�t noticed the flash of lightning. In unison the sideline fans stomped on the bleachers producing a war-like drum beat while yelling a bit too raucously to call it cheering. The effect was one of violence, not exuberance. I was actual embarrassed for these people and felt sympathy for the pitcher and the rest of his teammates who had to endure this taunt. It was really quite impressive that such young kids � on both teams - could play with such precision and poise. Yet I couldn�t help noticing that this fact was being lost on at least half of the people watching. And in this one instance was the subtle savagery that is at the root of so many of our problems. Yeah, they do keep score, so part of the point is winning and I have no problem with that. But there is very little appreciation in many people for anything other than winning. There is very little appreciation for the actual talents on display whether that team is �your� team or the opposing side. So yes, Anne, our society is a little out of whack when it comes to appreciating or rewarding certain values. Winning and achieving is good. But what happened to the days when there was respect given for just being in the game, win or lose? That�s what�s missing. They used to call it sportsmanship. That barely exists anymore � in any walk of life. | ||||
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Brad, having coached little league teams for several years when my son was younger, I very much relate to the story you've shared. The major problem was with the parents rather than the kids. It's a sad commentary on social values You ask: But what happened to the days when there was respect given for just being in the game, win or lose? That�s what�s missing. They used to call it sportsmanship. That barely exists anymore � in any walk of life. I do recall when I played baseball and basketball back in the 60's, that things weren't too different from what you've described. We ball players on both teams were really just trying to do our best, and were generally quite nervous about performing in front of all those people. There were the remarks we heard by "fans" that they'd bet a lot on us, and so we'd better do well, which didn't help. Then the booing when we'd mess up--all that from a small town in south Louisiana that was 99% Catholic. But man alive, people really took their small town sports teams seriously. Flashing back: 2,000 years ago, thousands of people in Roman coliseums . . . rooting for the lions! We can surely do better, but maybe what you observed isn't such a recent development. I don't know. What do others think? | ||||
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Hi all.... am popping in a bit late on this but wanted to add my two cents Anne: "How do we recognize quality of any type--physical beauty, ingelligence, athletic ability--without devaluing those who lack such gifts." Johnboy: "You know, Anne, sometimes it seems to me that every theological question is just another way of asking the one fundamental theological question: Why can't I be God?" I think the answer to that question lies in Johnboy's answer.... not so much the why can't I be God... but in the thinking we are God... we are the creators. I did a lot of thinking on this awhile back and this is what I came up with: Last night I was giving thanks and just thinking about all of the things I have been given. My whole life is gift and everything and everyone in it. I was responsible for none of it. I certainly was not responsible for my birth or the family I was born into. I was not responsible for my hair or my eyes or any of it. Neither were my parents. They did not direct a specific sperm to unite with a specific egg and they did not create either. It was a gift. I did not create my mind or my talents. I may have developed them but that too was made possible through gift. This computer, I type on was gift. I may have given money for it but I did not create it or create the technology that created it or create the minds that created the technology that created it. It is all gift. All of life; everything and every experience and every person that has touched my life is pure gift. How can we possibly take credit for any of it? If we think of the person as the creator rather than the "holder" of a specific gift, we then elevate them above ourselves. If instead, we look at the entire creation - everything as gift given not for the benefit of one or a few, but for the benefit and enjoyment of everyone - and recognize that each of us have been given gifts... things necessary for the benefit of the whole, then we can celebrate the gifts without elevating the person who "holds" them. Peace, Wanda | ||||
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Phil wrote: <<We can surely do better, but maybe what you observed isn't such a recent development. I don't know. What do others think?>> I don't think it's such a new development, but I think we see more of it simply because kids today get involved in sports activities at an earlier age, many sports which used to have their own "season" are now played year round (all the better to be better my dear), sports for girls have expanded,etc. There are just more opportunities for parents to get worked up!! Make sense? Now, what I want to know is...when parents do get hot under the collar at kids' sporting events, what's REALLY going on? What's the driving force behind it all? Is it just all about "ego?" Is it the sin of pride again?? Anne | |||
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Fair use be danged. This is from JB's link: "Why do we feel good when we succeed at anything? Is it because we are admired for it, our ego gets stroked, or because we enjoy the satisfaction of doing something well? Yes, for all of these reasons, though none is the deepest one. Ultimately, though we aren't generally aware of it, we feel good because, deep down, we have contributed our little piece to the big picture, filled in a piece of the jigsaw puzzle that only we can provide, been one necessary atom in the final establishment of things. That is why we feel good whenever we build something, help someone, give birth to something, help raise someone, teach something, complete something, nurse someone, perform a successful surgery, score a goal, clean a bathroom, cook a meal, do the dishes, or simply do anything properly. The satisfaction we feel at these times has a deep root. We have just filled in our little piece in the big picture, helped free up one fragment of being. Conversely, why do we feel badly whenever we fail at something, betray someone, or realize that we have wasted some of our potential? Is this simply a feeling of wounded pride, frustration, shame? Yes, all of these things, but, again, it is more. Ultimately we feel a certain intolerable futility because we have not taken our rightful place in the cosmos, not filled in our proper piece of the jigsaw puzzle. It can be helpful to recognize this more consciously, especially so as not to misread our own restlessness. Why do I say this? Because we are born so restless, so incurably driven by the sense that we are special and meant to achieve something of significance. Nobody wants to live and not leave some mark in the world. "Have child, plant a tree, write a book!" says a popular axiom. Translated that means: "Make sure you do something to guarantee, a little at least, your own immortality." We often lack the self-knowledge or honesty to admit this, but something inside us (the part that fuels our restlessness) understands exactly what that means. We want and need to leave a permanent mark somewhere. We are born for that reason. But generally we misread this restless and what it is asking of us. The logic runs this way: We know that we need to leave a permanent mark somewhere. But we think we can only do this by becoming famous in some way, a person known to the world, a household word, someone with his or her name in lights, on the cover of TIME magazine. That is why we are always trying to achieve something of significance, something that will stand out, something that will last. Most often though our lives do not seem to measure up. We feel ourselves small-town, ordinary, unimportant, and so our restlessness begins to eat us up. Our everyday satisfactions and disappointments though can teach us something. We need to listen closely to what makes us feel good or bad. Our lives can seem small, but we do not especially enlarge them through fame and recognition. You don't get immortality - nor restfulness - for being a superstar. You get these for filling in that little piece of the big picture, that one wee atom, that is uniquely yours." | ||||
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From the Ron Rolheiser quote that jb directed us to: <<Conversely, why do we feel badly whenever we fail at something, betray someone, or realize that we have wasted some of our potential? Is this simply a feeling of wounded pride, frustration, shame? Yes, all of these things, but, again, it is more. Ultimately we feel a certain intolerable futility because we have not taken our rightful place in the cosmos, not filled in our proper piece of the jigsaw puzzle.>> OK, I can buy into the above....but somehow when he talks about *failing* I doubt that he was thinking of failing as it relates your kid's sports team losing? And I don't think being witness to *your team's* winning a sporting event qualifies as "filling in our proper piece of the puzzle." There are different kinds of *failing.* And more often we are expecting too much of ourselves and beating ourselves up for being inadequate (wanting to be God again)...for having unrealistic expectations of ourselves, or for *failing* at something that REALLY isn't all that important (like a sports event). OK...listen to this. Last night my was my daughter's piano recital. I've been through enough of these things to know that plenty of mistakes are made, that kids don't have to play perfectly, even though everyone would like them to, that it's hard to do your best when your fingers are shaking, and ultimately, the whole thing is a learning experience, etc. Soo, enter my daughter, who is almost 16, and one of the older students. She walks onto the little stage, announces her song, turns around and sits down at the piano, and the back waistline of her slacks rides down and the audience can see about two inches of the top of her underwear!!  I never even flinched. If anyone else noticed, they didn't say anything about it. She played beautifully, got lots of nice comments from people afterwards, and I never mentioned a word to her about the underwear. My husband was sort of *relaxing* while she played (eyes closed) and he didn't notice either. I guess it's POSSIBLE that nobody noticed, although I can't imagine how they missed it. But I just went on...after all, it wasn't really such a big deal, was it? And there wasn't anything I could do about it, so I just moved on and enjoyed the rest of the evening. Of course, next year, I WILL have her sit at the piano at home before we leave and test out the slacks/shirt combo. Anne | |||
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re: OK, I can buy into the above....but somehow when he talks about *failing* I doubt that he was thinking of failing as it relates your kid's sports team losing? And I don't think being witness to *your team's* winning a sporting event qualifies as "filling in our proper piece of the puzzle." Must be one of those insidious vicarious dynamisms, which, of course, might require some type of vicarious atonement. pax tibi, jb who was half-serious, half-joking (or was I too obtuse and abstruse)  at-one-ment is another play on words that makes vicarious atonement, in a certain way of looking at it, redundant? , even with sports teams (I'll bet Phil is still a St. Louis Cardinal and thus has filled in one more small piece of the cosmic jigsaw)  | ||||
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jb wrote: (I'll bet Phil is still a St. Louis Cardinal and thus has filled in one more small piece of the cosmic jigsaw) OK jb, I have no idea what you were talking about in that last post, but it's OK. I enjoyed the last part. Phil is ABSOLUTELY filling in his one small piece of the cosmic jigsaw! Now, WHY would Phil be a Cardinals fan? He's from Louisiana and now he lives in Kansas....do people from KANSAS follow the Cardinals?? This is news to me!(I live 80 miles south of St. Louis.) Also...why are some of us labeled *junior* members and others *member* members? Does it have something to do with when we registered? I know it's irrelevant but I'm curious. Go Rams! (No Cardinal fans in this house). Anne | |||
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PS: jb....I've been trying out your bit about the the measuring stick on some of my friends who were stressing over issues with their kids...comparing their kids to other kids and to their siblings. I told them that it wasn't a good idea to even GET OUT the measuring stick. See how your wisdom can spread?? You may be helping people you don't even know. Anne | |||
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I think Phil discloses his Cardinal affinity on his personal webpage, along with his chagrin over almonds in chocolate. I would not otherwise make known through this medium any of his past foibles or idiosyncrasies (unless you have PayPal and want to negotiate). jb | ||||
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...or for *failing* at something that REALLY isn't all that important (like a sports event). Easier said than done - even if just a spectator. I remember back in '78 when the Seattle Supersonics went to the NBA finals for the first time. It was also the first time any modern-day pro team in our area had been to a championship. We hung on the outcome of every game. The whole state got wrapped up in it. When they eventually lost to the Washington Bullets in seven games everyone was devastated. Young and old, man or woman, hardcore sports fan or casual viewer, it was a hangover that lasted for days. The next year we made it to the championship series again and we won! We beat those same Washington Bullets who had beaten us the previous year. Anybody living through those two years remembers it with great fondness. There's a lot to be gained from competitions such as these, even if you lose - if (a big if) it's not taking too seriously. The most memorable year for sports fans in the northwest since then was the �95 Mariners who eventually lost to Cleveland in the ALCS (but we beat them Yankees in the ALDS! EDDD-GARRRR!!!). And I�m somewhat of a Cardinals baseball fan because of their manager, Tony LaRussa. Brains over brawn. J The point, the point, the point. Oh yeah. Never trust Andy Benes to get a late-season victory in order to avoid having a one-game playoff against the Angels in which Randy Johnson pitches brilliantly but unfortunately, due to this extra game screwing up the rotation, isn�t available to pitch twice against Cleveland. Or perhaps the point is that highs and lows in life are great as long as they come in somewhat equal quantities. Good enough? Actually I think if any of us look into the face of potential, and if we define failure as not having reached that potential (which is fair enough in some ways, I suppose), then we�re going to see an awful lot of failure. That does, of course, presuppose that we know what we are potential of. And when we look around at others and see their achievements, big and small, we sometimes can�t help but feel like failures. It�s a fine line, really. We can both gain inspiration and motivation from seeing the possibilities that others realize for themselves, and we can also feel inadequate by comparison. Putting down that measuring stick is all well and good, but each of us, deep inside, tends to know that there are passions and talents and abilities inside us that aren�t being expressed. It can weigh on a person. There�s no fooling the ego or the soul or wherever these feelings come from. And the answer to this is� The way to deal with this is� The heck if I know. | ||||
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Brad wrote: "Actually I think if any of us look into the face of potential, and if we define failure as not having reached that potential (which is fair enough in some ways, I suppose), then we’re going to see an awful lot of failure." Yeah...that part of Rolheiser's essay sort of bothered me, too...the idea of equating failure with *wasted potential.* "Putting down that measuring stick is all well and good, but each of us, deep inside, tends to know that there are passions and talents and abilities inside us that aren’t being expressed." I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't call it failure either, but rather making choices in life. Saying yes to one thing almost always means saying no to something else. And I also think that following a sports team can be great fun. After all, the Rams have been to the Super Bowl twice. But when they lose, I don't think I can justify my depressed state by saying: Oh gee, I feel so badly...I let the universe down because I wasn't able to take my rightful place in the cosmos. "And the answer to this is… The way to deal with this is… The heck if I know." Me neither. But, I think Phil would probably say, to "Do what you are doing," or "Be here now in love." Anne | |||
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Me neither. But, I think Phil would probably say, to "Do what you are doing," or "Be here now in love." Yes, and that would be good advice. But once in a while we just need to �Be Here Now in the World Series.� Sometimes we just need a little good luck to come out of left field. Sometimes we go into slumps and all the philosophy in the world (as distinguished from theology) won�t drive in those runs. Sometimes you just need to bloop a few singles into the outfield, whether your swing was a good one or not. It�s that ol� balance thing again. We certainly need to take charge and try and make things happen. We can�t be totally fatalistic. We certainly can�t just sit around and wait to be �saved� in the non-religious sense. But there are events in everyone�s life that seem to happen by pure chance, that seem to bring us to that open door that we�re told is there to balance the closed ones. Sometimes when the team is up against it and the breaks are beating the boys, we need a Gipper to go out there and win us just one. Faith, I suppose, it what sustains some between these times. Mixing sports metaphors, I guess, is what does it for me. | ||||
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WOW....what a topic to come back to!!! This has been a REALLY good read. I personally have a hard time with the world's idea of "success" and "failure" and you all have touched on most of the things that I think about in that respect. Ironically, you all got off on the topic of sports and since I've just spent a week at a National Softball Tournament, it really touched a chord with me. Our middle daughter who is 15 has played basketball and softball from the time she was in kindergarten....she LOVES sports. Our youngest did too, for a while, but couldn't take the "failure" aspect of it nearly so well, so she has moved on to piano lessons and art. All the things you all have talked about here, I've seen. I have a REAL problem with that whole "savage" type of cheering and all that you described, Brad...it's awful and it makes me nervous to tell you the truth..lol. I think that word "vicarious" that JB mentioned comes into play a LOT with sports. Many parents live vicariously through their children's accomplishments...or their home team's accomplishments...or even on a much bigger scale, or their state's accomplishments. And Anne, I so agree about the discomfort with failure being wasted potential...I can't buy that one at all. In these years of sports with our daughter, we've seen everything from genuine sportsmanship to downright violence...it amazes me. I will have to say, though, that in this National Tournament, I came away with a very good feeling. I'm just going to put a little of it here because in some ways it makes the heart feel good about the ability of folks to compete but still be appreciative of their opponents. A little background: Our little team is comprised of 2-15 year olds, 2-14 year olds, 2-13 year olds, and 5-12 year olds. We are a "school/town" team....summer league. We have simple $15 team shirts that we all buy and then buy shorts and socks to go with. Our competition here is other little school teams like ours. Just to get an idea of how little when I say little, our town has a population of around 800-900 people..lol..and the folks we play mostly come from towns that have 4,000-8,000 population...like I said...little towns. Here we go off to National Tournament at Santa Fe where we are in a group of 57 other softball teams. What we didn't know when we signed up for this was that out of those 57 teams, only about 5 or 6 were like us...little town teams. The rest of these teams???.....chartered buses, custom designed uniforms, girls either 14 or 15 years of age, hand picked players, players paying upwards of $4,000 to even BE on the team. WOW!!! We were sitting there thinking...WHAT are we doing here?!?!..lol. We played 4 games..and lost 4 games..one of which was by one run in extra innings....BUT...it wasn't a failure by any means. It was a success! Every coach of the teams we played made a special effort to come compliment our little girls on how tough they played...how much strategy they had, etc...they were just amazed at the ages of the girls and how well they played. In fact, the first team we played was from Mission Hills, CA...their coach came to our game yesterday to cheer our girls on because up to that point, our little ones were the only ones who'd managed to score against them and he wanted to make sure they knew they had played well no matter HOW they did in the tournament. We did run into a few nasty little comments from players and parents, but all in all, it was a very nice round of play. And I think it gave me a bit of positive reinforcment that for some folks, it's still about teamwork....sportsmanship...fun!! It seems to me that sometimes, and I'll use sports here, that sin of pride that was talked about goes nuts! It's as if the parents feel it is THEIR accomplishment if the child does well and the pride is in themselves almost..does that make sense? One of the most horrible things I've ever seen was an exchange between a mother and daughter at a game once. They were parked right beside us so we couldn't possibly miss the whole thing. The little girl was in tears because she hadn't played too well...the mother was literally bent down with her finger in that little girl's face shaking it at her and telling her that she'd better not ever see her play that badly again, that she had let the whole team down, that there was no excuse for her mistakes, that she was ashamed of her! All the while tears are just running down this little girls face...she might've been 12. I'm tellin ya...I came within an inch of decking that mother...and I'm non-violent to the extreme! My husband came around to my side of the car and opened the door for me...a not so subtle signal of "get in the car mother!!". I've wondered since then, how will that little girl come out? How will she face things in the future? And how will her mother's actions affect her? I guess in my mind there is this idea that maybe there is very very little that is actually failure. Perhaps "failing" at something is in the eye of the beholder after all...and maybe we should look for the "success" within the failure? I'm not sure, but many a life has been put to death, in a sense, because of the perception of failure. Well...I think I've written a book, but this is a wonderful topic! Thanks for the great read! | ||||
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