I hear you, Stephen.

"Implicit faith," properly understood, here, refers to an un-named faith in Christ and response to the Spirit. This can indeed become confused and muddled by other influences, especially contrary religious beliefs. So it's not really about salvation through other religions so much as Christ and the Spirit working in and through (or around) other systems outside of Christianity (including other religions) to draw people of good-will to the Father. The "Word," in such cases, would be manifest in their life experience, and perhaps Christian-like teachings in other religions; the response would be to the authentic leadings of conscience, which is the "inner room" where we live before God. And the evidence of this we can expect to see (as noted above) is the sanctifying gifts of the Spirit and the fruits of the Spirit. We do, in fact, see this in people outside of Christianity; without a concept like implicit faith, I don't know how one could explain this.

Excerpt from the book: Shattered Lantern, by Ronald Rolheiser

Our faith must be born where it is abandoned by all tangible reality; it must be born of nothingness, it must taste this nothingness and be given it to taste in a way no philosophy of nihilism can imagine. Faith begins where atheism thinks it ends and it is born where it is abandoned by all tangible reality, including the thoughts of our intellects and the spontaneous feelings of our hearts.

Implicit faith, trust and love in and through God.

During meditation, prayers, contemplation and reflection last night I came to the realization that the intellectual mind and the desired super consciousness of many, is not the way to reach God, for me anyway.

Being centered in wisdom, with toatal dependence upon said wisdom from God, together with an overflowing love for Christ, my spirit allows me to express this love for myself and all of God's children.

I see the intellectual mind and consciousness like a circle rotating at all times, yet always returning to its beginning, with the same repeat over and over again. Look at the writings of new age authors, teachers, spiritual gurus, and today's learned scholars and philosophers who with their written and oral words are only repeating over and over again what has been said by all wise men of all religions and belief systems. Sorry to say, there is nothing new under the sun, only what has been known in the past brought into the present and forefront all over again with each new generation. Sorry, Ken Wilbur, even you are a repeat of consciousness from the past. So give me the simple man who hears God's words: you are all stupid and devoid of knowledge, none are good, not even a one.

A learned wise sage told me a couple of years ago that we have reached the peak of conscious evolution and are now in an era were many geniuses are on a downward spiral entering the phase of devolution in their pursuit of setting their throne above God's. We are gods in the making dependent upon God Our Maker, and for the time being have not reached the level of dethroning Our Creator God, who says: "I still sit on my throne".

Implicit faith in Christ is the only way for all of humanity. Our spirits must truly rely upon God for everything and know that in and through Christ we have our being, life here on earth, and our life to come.

I do much better flowing in love and depending upon God for everything and all. We all must be careful not to get involved too much in this mental intellectual sea, otherwise we become enmeshed in it's maze not finding our way out of it again. For me things must be child like, simple and putting my faith in Christ at all times.

So as we all present our eloquent posts, always bear in mind God's words: you are all stupid and devoid of knowledge. Your ways are not My ways, and your thoughts are not My thoughts.

What a great way to start a Sunday with Implicit Faith in Christ and dependence on God for all things. Praises to the Holy One who is worthy of our love, humbleness and devotion.

Freebird, after reading and enjoying your contributions during the past few weeks, I'm pretty sure that your faith in Christ is of the explicit kind (see how you speak so lovingly of Him again and again).

Re. intellectual discussions - - there are charisms of knowledge, wisdom and teaching that make such a little less effortful for some than others.

Phil thank you for your correction. My love for Christ and my faith is explicit.

I should have checked the meaning in my dictionary.

So give me the simple man who hears God's words: you are all stupid and devoid of knowledge, none are good, not even a one.

Oh, I totally agree with that. I consider intellectual activity (at least these days) as an exercise comparable to jogging. Nobody (sorry, joggers of the world) in their right mind would actually jog if they didn�t have to. If we were, via our normal daily activities, getting that kind of exercise we wouldn�t jog. But we are no longer cavemen or women hunting antelope on the open plains or gathering berries on the mountaintops. Many of us are desk jockeys and have therefore turned what was once a natural act (running) into a necessarily stilted and fabricated one. We jog (or bike, or hike, or mountain climb). And we make the most of it and indeed we can find pleasure in it. And these things are good. But the main end result of all that natural running or contrived jogging is changing or establishing how we feel, think and are, in our rest state. Physical activity brings us to a better sense of peace, energy, and state of mind.

But sometimes we jog too much and hurt our joints and knees. I�m constantly being told, or am telling myself, to stop thinking so much about Big stuff and to just be. The problem I run into is that I am thinking when I should be resting. It�s not that heavy intellectual thinking is bad. It�s that it has its place and that place is not every place. Our thinking can resemble, as you so aptly said, Freebird, �a circle rotating at all times, yet always returning to its beginning, with the same repeat over and over again.

I do much better flowing in love and depending upon God for everything and all. We all must be careful not to get involved too much in this mental intellectual sea, otherwise we become enmeshed in it's maze not finding our way out of it again. For me things must be child like, simple and putting my faith in Christ at all times.

I again agree. And the error I might make is to consider the intellectual flights of fancies to be THE place nearest to Being. It certainly can be a good place, but I think a more profitable attitude is to consider the place where we will inevitably spend (or perhaps should spend) most of our time: that child-like state of simple faith. Without being grounded in this then I think our intellectual activities serve to keep us apart from the world rather than opening it and pealing it like the layers of a vast onion. And it indeed takes some intellectual effort to do that.

According to Christian mystics the last stage they accomplish after many years purification is unification of soul with God. And it is common they speak about Christ and his mystical body. I wonder if there is any difference between integrating the mystical body of Christ and unification of soul with God?

Phil, regarding the issue of implicit faith I have one question. In another forum you refer a link where Karl Rahner is interviewed. Rahner says the following on Anonymious Christianity:

Anonymous Christianity means that a person lives in the grace of God and attains salvation outside of explicitly constituted Christianity� Let us say, a Buddhist monk� who, because he follows his conscience, attains salvation and lives in the grace of God; of him I must say that he is an anonymous Christian; if not, I would have to presuppose that there is a genuine path to salvation that really attains that goal, but that simply has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. But I cannot do that. And so, if I hold if everyone depends upon Jesus Christ for salvation, and if at the same time I hold that many live in the world who have not expressly recognized Jesus Christ, then there remains in my opinion nothing else but to take up this postulate of an anonymous Christianity.

Furthermore, he believes Holy Spirit works through other religions.

I wonder if Catholic Church has the same stand point on this issue?

Basically the same position, though not as explicitly stated. The Church does unequivocally affirm that salvation comes through Christ, and also that people from other religions can be saved through following the guidance of their conscience. I think somewhere earlier on this thread I posted references to Vatican II documents on this.

Edit: see this page, which, interestingly, also contrasts teachings from earlier periods which denied the possibility of salvation to non-Catholics. The nuance given to that now is that one must not deliberately refuse to be a Catholic if one knows the truth of the Church.

Thanks Phil!