Here are two links showing two very different attitudes to contemplation. The first a hardcore fundamentalist's view. You'll love this, w.c. Go get 'em, cowboy.

www.bereanpublishers.com/Deception_in_the_Church/contemplation_techniques_for_you.htm

The second an example of revived interest among evangelical charismatics in contemplation

www.themercysite.milestonenet.co.uk

The first is, well, pretty much fearful fear mongering, also filled with contradictions as regards Christians and demonic interference; the second fairly basic, but I've found an inability to distinguish between the Holy Spirit and created energies amongst evangelical charismatics.

I guess neither really appeal to me too much, though I lean heavily towards the latter.

"Lectio Divina (or "holy reading") is one of the basic exercises of these disciplines. A phrase or single word is chosen from the Bible. However, rather than aiding understanding through one's dwelling on its plain meaning, the word or words become mediumistic devices for hearing directly from God. The word or phrase is then "meditated upon" (meditatio) by being slowly repeated again and again in the fashion of a mantra (Jesus condemns as heathen "vain repetitions" in prayer [Mt 6:7]). It is then prayed (oratio) as an incantation, thereby allegedly healing painful thoughts or emotions. Finally, the repeated word is used to help clear one's thoughts (contemplatio), supposedly making one an open receptacle for personally hearing God's voice.

These biblical words are selected not for the purpose of attaining objective understanding -- the "contemplator" has almost no interest in the meaning, grammatical use or context of the verses, which simply become a mechanism to aid in listening for subjective communication from God. It should be obvious (especially for evangelicals!) that this is not how the Bible instructs us to learn or teach the basic doctrines of the Christian faith. Furthermore, classic contemplative concepts reject doctrine as a basis for knowing God and for receiving His salvation. Many of the movement's "spiritual masters" blame western rationalism (with its penchant for reason and emphasis upon words) for nearly destroying "our ability to intuitively experience our Creator."

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Basically a distorted summary of Lectio Divina, which has nothing to do with mantra, and does in fact include a focus on textual meaning to the extent it serves receptivity to Christ. There is no attempt, of course, to clear one's thoughts, as contemplation isn't an act of one's own, or a quietist state of mind. And it is just silly that he states Catholic contemplative writers reject doctrine as the basis for spiritual practice.

I wonder what his instruction would be if he were advising somebody in the basics of prayer?

There's a big influence in this country from Protestantism in Northern Ireland. I came across this too:

www.takeheed.net/news25.htm

These guys are extremely bigoted. They have a thing about words beginning with the letter 'c'. Anti-catholic, anti-charismatic, anti-contemplation. Anti-Christ?

From the link above:

quote:

During my time in Malta I read a book that I had been asked to review. It was called �A TIME OF DEPARTING� by Ray Yungen and it dealt with the subject of �CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER�. This is an expression that conjures up a picture of deep spirituality and an intimate walk with God � the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth. So-called �CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER� [defined as �Going beyond thought by use of repeated prayer words� on page 138] is nothing more than a resurgence of occultic techniques found in paganism and Roman Catholic mysticism only this time it is being promoted by authors who are perceived to be in the evangelical Christian �camp�. It certainly was an �eye-opener� and explained how heretical statements to the effect that �God is in all people� [from the definition of �Panentheism� on page 140] have been circulated by people like Tony Campolo who is closely associated with the Renovare movement founded by Richard Foster � author of �Celebration of Discipline� - a book, which in the light of what I read about it in Ray Yungen�s book, is clearly one to be avoided by God�s people.

Oh well, this guy doesn't seem to know very much about the topic. For one thing, that's not really a good definition of contemplative prayer -- resting in God would be more to the point.

What I wonder about is what Protestants who are given the grace of contemplation do when it comes? From spiritual direction, I know that some have been experiencing this for years, and enjoying it much. They tried talking about it with their minister and were cautioned about demonic influence and the like (when, in fact, we're never more safe from demons than when in contemplation). Others didn't know what to say.

Without some practical guidance, however, it would be easy to misconstrue the meaning of early stirrings, and to even refuse the graces being offered. Hence, the importance of good teaching on this topic -- which you won't find on the site above, as Stephen noted.

If we don't deal with our shadows, even befriend them as simply created energies of the subconscious, then it is far too easy to confuse them with evil. If the contents of the subconscious are stirred via K's response to the Holy Spirit, but are being censored by strong beliefs that such is evil, then it isn't contemplative prayer, per se, that is feared, but one's own deeper subjectivity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiden_Wilson_Tozer

http://w3.gorge.net/braveheart/newpage4.htm

If you have never read The Pursuit of God, you are a culturally deprived Christian, IMHO!

Thanks MM,

Might engage in Pursuit of Tozer after this.

Men Who Met God, The Root of the Righteous and
The Divine Conquest are also recommended. He is a little biased toward "Romanists" as he calls them,
but it's just a tad bit of rivalry and easy for me to overlook.

"A theologian is one who prays, one who prays is a theologian." -- Russian Orthodox proverb -mm

There just aren't many protestant contemplatives, which is why I am great-full for your fine companionship! Here are a few that stand out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Staples_Lewis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Underhill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Boehme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Hurnard

I don't know about Lewis as a contemplative, MM. The rest -- for sure!

I think the relatively large number of Catholic mystics/contemplatives is because of religious orders and their daily disciplines of prayer and silence. Anyone contemplative graces given would have a good chance of taking root and growing in such an environment. And many of the Catholic writers didn't really want to write about their experiences, but were ordered to do so by their superiors.

Huston Smith is an interesting case. After all this
he winds up back in the Methodist church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huston_Smith

The great-grandaddy of the Religious Right was a contemplative. His son Franky joining the Orthodox
is an interesting development.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Schaeffer

A theologian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tillich

Perhaps the greatest living protestant theologian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfhart_Pannenberg

A humanitarian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Schweitzer

A devotional writer: "The Christian's Secret of a Happy Life" is one of my personal favorites, and may have actually been the first mystical book I ever read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Whitall_Smith

Just to throw you a curve, I am currently reading nine of this man's works on the topic of prayer. He was a chaplain during what Phil and Johnboy sometimes refer to as The War of Northern Aggression. Mystic? Quite a guy, whatever he was, it seems.

http://www.historyaddict.com/cschaplain2.html

Some Evelyn Underhill resources:

http://www.mrrena.com/underhill.shtml

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These fellows seem to be causing concerns among evangelicals about New Age theological content:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brennan_Manning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Foster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Willard

I'm just noticing and not recommending them. It's good that people want to grow, but sometimes is can be a process of three steps forward and two steps back. Underhill had some occultists in her circles as well.

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

All good people, MM. Only I'm beginning to wonder if you're not really trying to recruit people away from Catholicism.

I meet alot of Catholics who read Evangelicals. Fortunately, Evangelicals are discovering the hidden
wealth of Saints and mystics.

When I was growing up, I had the feeling that that that nice Catholic family on my block were probably going to hell. I'm sure that they felt that our nice Lutheran family were the ones on our way to hell.

Now we are ecumenical, except for those nasty Muslims who are SURELY going straight to hell. LOL
Yesterday, the paper said that most Americans have
a favorable of Muslims in general as opposed to the way they felt in 2002-3. So I feel now that people are listening to spirit more than authority
figures.

Take what you need and leave the rest...


Here is a great preacher from the Golden Age:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Spurgeon

Spurgeon was a Calvinist, and I may be converting
away from some points of Calvinism, which is why,
to answer your question, brother Phil, I am not seeking to convert you. You are the only one I have met so far that scored 100% Catholic on the beliefnet quiz, and even with my Evangelical and Lutheran backround, I score 75-80%, yet we have no significant disagreements so far. Amazing!

Even Aquinas said late in life that all he had written was straw, I would say that all that any man of God can do is to point us toward the Light.
Every Christian institution is populated by imperfect humans, and because of that, are eternally flawed. Nevertheless, the institutions have their place and God is the main Author of their highest purposes, methinks.- caritas

Here is a major influence in my spiritual life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Chambers

I've already outlived Chambers. Wow, I'm getting old. My Utmost for His Highest is a daily devotional which I have attempted to understand for about 15 years now, but frequently become angry and frustrated because Chambers was so completely surrendered and I am not. The mystics might say that Chambers dwelt in Divine Union.
Remarkable man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1904-1905_Welsh_Revival

This phenomenon fascinates me. It's been 100 years and we may be due for another one.

A brief message from the Spurgeon General:

http://www.spurgeon.org/revival.htm

I'm reading some of Spurgeon's sermons and sermon notes from some dusty olde books lately...

These type of manifestations and movements are by no means confined to protestants, as several popes
have attested:

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/ans...rismatic_renewal.htm

And here is my all-time favorite devotional. It is deeply contemplative and mystical and balketh not at the topic of suffering and struggles:

http://www.backtothebible.org/...ons/classics/streams

I've been through it a half dozen times and been greatly blessed. Hope U like it 2! -caritas

For a couple of centuries, next to the bible, this was the most common work found on American bookshelves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pilgrim's_Progress

It's a beautiful allegory. I'm about halfway through
Hannah Hurnard's Hind's Feet in High Places and recieving much the same feeling. God bless

That's a healthy attitude, MM. I know where you're coming from too, except I AM out to convert all the Catholics .

Good to see Spurgeon's name mentioned - a stalwart of the circles I moved amongst as boy. Despite the Calvinist leanings, a mighty man of God who brought many people to Christ and was a bit of a celebrity in Victorian London. You may find a character called G.H. Lang interesting MM. Very evangelical but with ideas that flew in the face of most evangelicals then and now. His autobiography is quite interesting.

And, yeah, I've read The Pilgrims's Progress. It was actually on the syllabus when I was at university - (Elizabethan literature) - required reading, and is seen as a bit of a classic by some; a bit of a trophy to others. As you say, very beautiful, spawning many an imitation. I really liked it and have been thinking about giving "Hind's Feet . . ." a go as well.

Thanks!

The Anglican Mission in America is out to convert
Episcopalians. Seems like a good idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...n_Mission_in_America

http://www.christianitytoday.c...t/2001/126/34.0.html