Hi, Phil:
I would post this to the forum but as you can see there aren't many takers to my questions.......... ;0 shame on them! they just don't know what they are missing!!! ;0

I had a 'moment' last eve while praying Evening Prayer and the reading was from Rom 11 esp. verses 25-36. Was wondering if you could share your view on the meaning of the phrase: "until the full number of the Gentiles come in". [RSV].
This whole chaper 11 has been most humbling for me.......and so needed, I might add.

IF I understand this correctly [which is up for grabs], it seems to be saying that the Jews will come to realize and accept our Lord as Savior when all the number of Gentiles under God's view have come into salvation.

Am struggling to put this into my own words. Will be spending many days of reading, praying, and in confession as well..

A clue, for me, was found in Navarre Bible itself but also in Luke 21:24 Navarre commentary: "24 "The times of the Gentiles" means the period in which the Gentiles, who do not belong to the Jewish people, will become members of the new people of God, the Church, until the Jews themselves are converted at the end of the world (cf Rom 11: 11-32)

Now Navarre hedges a bit in its commentary on Rom 11: 25-32. It seems to agree with Luke 21:24 when it says: ' The conversion of the Jews is a secret--a mystery, the texts says [v 25] -- hidden in the future which will come about when the Incarnation of the Word achieves its ultimate purpose.....This conversion will follow that of the Gentiles...................suggests that the Jews will be converted at the end of time.

BUT it hedges by stating in the final paragraph of commentary on Rom 11:25-32:

'However, when the Church in its preaching touches on the main signs of the end of the world, it only refers to the proclamation of the Gospel throughout the world, to apostasy and to the Antichrist, but it has nothing to say about the conversion of the Jews.'

That does allude back to the mystery of it all, doesn't it? the reason this has pummeled me to my knees is MY EVIDENTLY INCORRECT idea that everyone must first accept Christ for any hope and that included EVERYONE.--even the Jews. .....yet this does not deny this but because of the special place of the Jewish people in Our Father's heart, it seems to say that they will all be converted at the end of time .........with the appearance of our Lord.

Yet in scripture it does state that they [the Jews] knew Him not.......what it boils down to is my seemingly childish view that unless the Jews accept Him as Messiah BEFORE His return, they are lost. This does not seem to be what Rom. 11 is saying nor Luke 21:24. They seem to say that the Jewish people will have a final opportunity to accept our Lord as their Savior right before His return in glory.

any ideas?

I have done some additional research but it is quite long. Will try to divide it into two posts.

I guess it is still my evangelical fundamentalism coming to the fore....but was taught that everyone MUST receive the Lord as Savior and when He returns they will be received unto Him. Guess it is hard to dilute the ole protestant view..if that is what it is.

OY!!!!!

anne