Hello to all the wonderful folks at Shalom Place.


"You have heard Me tell you, 'I am going away and I am coming to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I" - John 14:28


Here is Paul's concept of God circa 55-65 AD --


"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

But not everyone knows this......" - 1 Cor. 8:6-7.

No trinity here.


"I and My Father are one" - John 10:30

wopik:

We've been round the mulberry bush with you on this topic before. If Phil wants to endure your beligerance, then I'll step aside; otherwise I'm going to delete this thread.


You can access a great deal of material on this topic on other thread(s) which you've already participated on in the past. Few agree with you on most things here at Shalom Place, and given your lack of substance in most posts, I won't tolerate your trollish evangelism.

quote:

Originally posted by wopik:
[qb]
No trinity here.
[/qb]

Hi wopik,

I have no interest in arguing this doctrinal issue. But I take it from past posts you are influenced my the Sevent Day Adventists. Here are my top eight interesting things to discuss with in connection with this religious movement:

-The story of figuring out how to cope with the (imho oh so predictable) �Great Disappointment� on October 22, 1844, the day William Miller thought Jesus was going to return.
-Hiram Edson�s vision � I visited the field where it took place.
-The biblical basis of vegetarianism
-The connection to Kellogg... Road to Wellville
-Refusal to do combatant military services� a point of contact with my Mennonite nonresistance tradition.
-The biblical basis for door-to-door evangelism, the main means whereby I have come into contact with the group� I welcomed the visitors back for many follow up sessions
-Odd disavowal of any connection with the Jehovah�s Witnesses with whom I have also enjoyed, repeated home visits
-The fluke of timing whereby members of the Bahai faith are saying William Miller�s prediction was right mostly

Your thoughts?

Ryan:

wopik has been trolling here at Shalom for about two years, if my dipensational thinking is correct. He apparently has nothing other in mind than trying to persuade the rest of us to his own narrow doctrinal views. I can't remember one post in which he actually held a conversation, or was open to actual dialogue in which reason was seriously employed.

So knock yourself out with him if you like, but this thread may be closed after I confer with Phil. Maybe you can open another one for the sake of attempting to communicate with aliens from another planet. Just don't let him land in your backyard; he might eat your children while quoting the Old Testament.

quote:

Originally posted by w.c.:
[qb] I can't remember one post in which he actually held a conversation [/qb]

WC:

I wasn't really expecting wopik to reply


Feel free to end close this thread.

wopik likes to quote Scripture to try to prove his points while ignoring the teachings of the very Church which wrote and authenticated the Scriptures and their meanings. His posts can be instructive in helping to illustrate how arbitrary and unfounded private interpretation of the Scriptures can be, but if you all find his contributions trollish and disruptive, let me know and I'll take care of it. (w.c., feel free, too, to close a thread if I'm not around and you see the need.)

Phil:

It's just that this subject has been taken up with wopik before. Why re-invent his sullen, attention-seeking little drama at the expense of others, since he won't listen to anybody but himself anyway? I guess I'd have less intolerance for it were it a "new" subject, but it's already been hashed over without results resembling real dialogue.

I see Wopik as a precious child who like all of us is looking for truth, like he does in his way. We must have tolerance, patience and extend a loving heart to him. I also feel that I can learn from Wopik, just as much as we all can with kindness reach him, maybe in just a very small way, but nevertheless, it is a start in accepting him as he is.

It can be frustrating to not be involved in a discussion with him, and by him just throwing out certain perceived truths. He may lack these communication skills to do so, but there is always a first time, and I encourage you Wopik to try and get involved in a discussion. You may even find some enjoyment in doing exactly that.

I, for one, will gladly give you this opportunity. Bless you Wopik.

Freebird, maybe you should read some of the previous exchanges with wopik. Click here for a few samples. I don't think you can read through some of those exchanges and still conclude that wopik is "looking for truth" and the problem is simply a matter of communication skills.

My problem as a mod/admin is that his posts don't really violate our User Agreement as have those of several others who've been banned lately. So, to be fair and accountable to this Agreement myself, I see no reason why wopik can't post, nor why he should not be ignored by those who don't wish to interact with him. Pointing to threads of similar topics he's introduced would be helpful, however; I can't see going over the same thing again and again.

Hi, Phil, Freebird, wc, Ryan ---


Thank you for keeping me on board.

The truth is all I'm looking for.

I think it has been buried under unverifiable traditions of men.

Kindly read my last post on "the burial of Jesus" for an example of this.

quote:

wopik likes to quote Scripture to try to prove his points while ignoring the teachings of the very Church which wrote and authenticated the Scriptures......

only if Church teachings differ from what Scriptures teach.

Another example, I don't feel it is necessary to keep Dec. 25, for the original Apostles who lived with Christ for three and one half years NEVER kept it their whole lives.


I don't see these same people ever keeping Sunday, either (see my last post in "burial of Jesus").


The Apostolic Church still kept "the holidays of the Bible" - which are all about Christ.

http://www.borntowin.net/aboutus.aspx - see confession of faith.

Thank you.

Dear Wopic,

I truly understand you and your great desire to know truths, and to share your findings with us. As I mentioned I do benefit from your revelations, pray about them and also do research on them.

Jesus: "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free". This message of Christ makes each and all of us responsible in the finding of truth within Scripture together with prayers and the spirit of discernment.

Thank you for sharing.

Wopik:

If you're seeking the truth, and you know that none of us share your doctrinal views, then why are you doing your seeking here at Shalom Place? And that is mostly a rhetorical question, since we know you are here to evangelize. So far, after two plus hard years of recruitment, you've got no takers. Why not move on to other pastures?

If what you value includes the actual contact with people on this forum, you'd probably have already by now, after two years, given some room not only for intellectual ambivalence, but asked one or more of us about our own lives. You've never done this, to my recollection.

That's really the point: all this carrying on about what you believe and your obstinance in needing us to agree with you. We don't, and for reasons that you'll probably not grasp given your own apparent values or way of seeing things. You have never once shown a willingness to question what you believe, and our lengthier posts in resposne to yours (nearly every time) have shown our willingness to take the issues seriously, to a point. But most of us are probably long past that point.

Again, this is no grounds for banning you from Shalom Place, but future regressions i.e, without any novel content, into topics already responded to by our forum members on threads past will probably get new threads deleted, by me.

Wopik,

The Gods got together and plotted how they might conceal the Truth from man. One suggested that they hide It on the top of the highest mountain. Another
recommended burying It at the bottom of the sea. It was finally decided that humans were ingenious at exploring the world outside themselves, and were bound to stumble across it sooner or later.

Eventually, it was decided to hide the Truth within the human heart, since it was the last place anyone would think to look.

caritas, mm <*))))><

Hi Wopik,

I have a busy day and a busy weekend but my mind keeps going back to thoughts of you. I don't have the time to gather all my thoughts and post them now but just wanted to connect with you again briefly.

As I've mentioned previously in another post, I was raised in the thought system you are describing. So knowing where you are coming from, I am amazed to see you here in this forum. Such a place would never have crossed my path and if it did, I would have dismissed it immediately. So I wonder what keeps you coming back? I don't know your motives (searching or to convert), but for some strange reason I feel happy to see you!

Since I grew up with the belief system you are coming from, I did not know what it was like to celebrate Christmas and other holidays and to feel the emptiness of keeping those days without the inner awareness of their deeper meaning. My husband did though. He came into the belief system of the Worldwide Church of God at about the age of 17. He was searching. He felt there must be more to life than what he had experienced up to that time....

Oh my!... time is closing in on me. I must run for now, but just wanted to connect briefly and say hi.

Blessings to You,
Tate

Thanks for that perspective, Tate. It would be encouraging to think wopik hangs around because he feels there's something more to the Christian faith experience than what he's currently allowing per his belief system.

Hi Wopik:

Each of our spiritual journies is unique. How did you come to believe as you do? And how is it that you came to find Shalom Place?

I kept the seventh day sabbath from my youth. And also what you call "the Holidays of the Bible". I feel as certain that I was lead away by God from those doctrinal beliefs as you probably do that you were lead to them. Life is interesting, huh?

Have you ever read any of Father Thomas Keating's books? "Mystery of Christ" is a good one that explains the deeper meaning to Christmas, Easter, etc. Mystery of Christ.

I too, as Ryan said, have no interest in arguing doctrinal issues. I just find it interesting that you found Shalom Place and keep coming back. I hope you will share more of your personal journey to Christ.

Respectfully,
Tate

what are your views of the Presbyterian denomination wanting to change the wording of the Trinity FROM "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" TO "Mother, Child and Womb" or "Rock, Redeemer, Friend."


Their other suggestions are:

- "Lover, Beloved, Love"

� "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"

� "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/r...-presbyterians_x.htm

Wopik:

Hello - since you did not address my post, I decided to go back and check out many of your previous posts as Phil suggested on this thread.

Disappointedly, I can see that to continue any dialogue might lead to beating my head against a brick wall. Since I'm no longer "into" self-abuse, I'll pass.

I do wish you the best on your journey though. You might want to reread mysticalmichael9's post above.

Eventually, it was decided to hide the Truth within the human heart, since it was the last place anyone would think to look.

w.c.:

Thanks for that perspective, Tate. It would be encouraging to think wopik hangs around because he feels there's something more to the Christian faith experience than what he's currently allowing per his belief system.

Thank you, w.c. Wopik's belief system brings up painful memories for me. Until recently, I have looked with disdain upon my past experiences within those doctrinal beliefs. God's Grace and Mercy is allowing compassion to enter my Heart and cover all the harm I caused myself and others while living in that depth of ignorance. I suppose my post was an attempt at expressing that compassion.

Blessings,
Tate

Tate:

It's always good to offer, and then I guess we just move on, trying to be decent, if firm, while not allowing ourselves to be exploited at the same time.


This topic is now closed, as wopik is showing only the behavior which won't be allowed to continue (as detailed a few posts back on this thread by myself to him).