We've started one or two threads on the Shroud, but I can't locate them. So here's an update and a link that goes along with the new research attention.

The lab that tested the linen threads in 1988, and found the cloth dated to the Middle Ages, is considering how its exposure down the centuries could have lead to this dating. Various sources affecting the radio carbon dating process are being evaluated. So even if they confirm the original dating through these indirect means, the more essential problem remains unaddressed.

That primary issue is considered to be the threads themselves used in the dating process. What has been discovered over the past twenty years is that the samples tested came from an area of repair dating back to the Middle Ages. And so there is still much uncertainty to follow the current research regardless of the findings. Showing that the fabric was tainted in a such a way as to skew the dating isn't strong evidence the Shroud dates any earlier; however, it might lead the Vatican to allow another dating attempt, even though the trend seems to be to guard it as an icon and not expose it further.

The research which re-invigorated the scientific community was just this question of where the threads came from, being involved in the very areas of repair that wouldn't have been part of the original linen.

In 2002 the Vatican had the Shroud cleaned of oxidating agents which were darkening the area around the image; over time this might have weakened the visible quality of the image, some say. But this unannounced intervention has stirred strong responses from the original scientific team which wasn't consulted for their expertise on the project, or even notified it was happening. The primary criticism seems to be that all which was removed from the Shroud had an important historical/archaelogical context which is now lost and cannnot be studied.

The Discovery Channel aired coverage of this recent research attempt still going on, but nothing on that documentary is availabe on DVD yet.

But here is an interview with the fabric specialist hired by the Vatican when the Shroud was cleaned back in 2002. This scientist believes she has found rather strong evidence of the Shroud's first century dating.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXEE9OWXFZg

This message has been edited. Last edited by: w.c.,

Very interesting!

See https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...?r=59910385#59910385 for the previous thread. You can usually track them down using the Find tab at the top part of the page. I can merge the two, if you'd like.

What are your thoughts on the Shroud, w.c.? For myself, I'm inclined to believe it's the burial cloth of Christ. Just too many factors pointing in that direction.

Yeah, it doesn't look like the Maillard reaction explains the holographic-like quality or the seemless uniformity of the image. So it's not likely to be just another corpse with crucifixion as the cause of death. Artistic explanations are ruled out. Not sure the Vatican will allow enough close-up work to find a thread or two without evidence of contamination. In fact, there may be no material without this exposure. So as long as carbon dating is in question, or there's no other way to date it in the future with better technology, the Shroud will remain an icon with questions, which, for what its worth, is ok by me. It's interesting how the subject of Jesus can't be "put to rest" by the skeptics, in one form or another, isn't it? He draws attention of every kind, and always will.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: w.c.,

I posted this link on the original thread, and it still looks like a good one for those wanting an introduction on the various facets of the Shroud, and for updates on research:

www.shroudstory.com

Actually most reports suggest the Maillard reaction capable of mostly forming the image on the Shroud. I say "mostly" because there seems to be some lingering notion of more involved than this chemical reaction, especially what would account for the appearance of bones in the cloth's image. Here is a link to a study showing how nuclear radiation in a human body generates some of those characteristics which a Maillard reaction apparently cannnot:

www.shroud.com/pdfs/accett2.pdf

And here is a transcript from an interview where the theory of nuclear radiation is discussed:

www.shroud.com/n49part3.pdf

I remember when the Shroud was first found and discussions began. Something I always wondered about was the image of Jesus hair. I had been taught at my seminary that Jesus would not have had long hair and that the images of Jesus with long hair are a later artistic rendition of european creation. Jews at the time of Jesus cut their hair short - which is why Paul makes the statement that long hair is unnatural on a man. I've never researched this further. Does anybody know whether this is true and whether it has any significance on the hairstyle of the Shroud image.

Jacques, you can find a number of references on the net about hairstyles of Jewish men.
- e.g. http://www.spiritualabuse.org/hair/history.html
It seems there was a practice for long hair among the more "Orthodox" leaning. Consider Samson, for example, and the connection between long hair and strength. At any rate, the image on the Shroud doesn't have very long hair.

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w.c., those are interesting studies. The more we learn about it, the more interesting it seems to be.

I'm just struck by the preponderance of data that points to it being a 1st C. cloth with real human blood and an amazingly detailed image of a man who'd been severely beaten, crowned with thorns, then crucified. There's just too much forensic detail to corroborate all this.
- see http://www.historian.net/shroud.htm for example, especially the 14 points at the bottom of the page.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
It seems there was a practice for long hair among the more "Orthodox" leaning.

And of course some people speculate that Jesus may have taken some form of Nazirite vow, which required (among other things) not cutting the hair:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite

I earlier searched the forum to see if there had been discussion on the Shroud. I believe I spelled Turin wrong (as Turen) and did not then find any results. I did not expect to find the topic under Book and Movie reviews, as my curiosity has more to do with whether or not anyone sharing here (or elsewhere that any may be aware of) have ever reported any supernatural experiences in connection with the Shroud? Say, when reading of or contemplating the nature of it, relevant to Jesus/Christ???