Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Book and Movie Reviews The Shadow of the Dalai LamaGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| The Shadow of the Dalai Lama | Login/Join |
This book can be read in its entirety at http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Index.htm The book is quite an eye opener and expose on Eastern spiritual beliefs, addressing especially Tibetan Buddhism, and its leader the Dalai Lama. We know things are not as the appear, and this book presents truths that we all should know and be aware of. It appears that there is a very dark hidden side to many popular spiritual groups that have come into the forefront in this century and who are heavily recruiting all over the world. | |||
|
The book is quite an eye opener and expose on Eastern spiritual beliefs, addressing especially Tibetan Buddhism, and its leader the Dalai Lama. Imagine someone getting all his or her ideas about Christ from, say, having done no more than attend the services of the most un-thinking, hard-core, hard line fundamentalist Christian church. Now imagine that same person reading the Gospels one day for him or herself. That is, in my not so humble opinion, the state Buddhism is in today. I�ve read several very good books regarding Buddhism that have gotten down to the real core of that philosophy. (Buddhism has, inappropriately, been turned into a religion.) I feel that I was very fortunate to have been given a real glimpse into the heart and sole of Buddhism by some very wise and respectful adherents who also happened to be very good writers. But my Spider Senses are tingly regarding that article you linked to, Freebird. I smell a hatchet job. The very first section deals with "Buddhism and mysogny". The very first paragraph contains the word "deconstruction". There stands a very good chance that this is a leftist hatchet job, despite the fact that one doesn�t really need to exaggerate or make up a lot of stuff to present a good critique. And am I to trust people to be objective who wrote a book, Hitler, Buddha, Krashna: An unholy alliance from the Third Reich to the present day? More info: I�m not saying that some mistaken or just downright evil people haven�t misused Buddhism (Can�t the same be said for Christianity?), but if one studies the core message, you�ll find nothing in either to support Nazi fascism. There are legitimate critiques to make regarding Buddhism, and for Buddhism�s sake I would like to see more of them. But I question whether "The Shadow of the Dalai Lama" is one of them. Notable by its absence (at least from my quick scan) of the table of contents is any mention of one of the more egregious aspects of Buddhism and that is its almost whole-hearted embracing of leftist and even Communist ideology. This leads me to suspect that this is another typical postmodern, unfair, biased "deconstruction". The real give away is how it focuses right off on misogyny. That�s Cultural Marxism 101 where everything is reduced to how it contributes to sexism, racism and homophobia. | ||||
|
Brad, thank you for your opinion and view points on the book and the authors, Victor and Victoria Trimondi. You have presented a very positive side of what you belief is true Buddhism, and I respect that. Like all things in life we have light and darkness and each one of us must discern "what is truth". My research has shown that the Trimondis had a very close relationship with the Dalai Lama, as personal friends, until their decision to write their book. They truly felt a need to present to the public what they had uncovered in their extensive studies. I doubt that the book was written for retribution of any kind, nor for money itself. Like you said, Christianity has also skeletons from the past and present. Blessings | ||||
|
My research has shown that the Trimondis had a very close relationship with the Dalai Lama, as personal friends, until their decision to write their book. Ouch! You mean they used to be friends? I certainly have my differences of opinion with the Dalai Lama, but mostly philosophical and political. He seems a decent enough chap. I can�t imagine someone being his friend and then chopping him off at the knees like that. Some friend. You have presented a very positive side of what you belief is true Buddhism, and I respect that. We should probably distinguish between Buddhism the philosophy (which is how it started, and its true nature) and Buddhism the religion (which it eventually morphed into�one could say it was hijacked). My opinions regarding Buddhism the religion are essentially non-existent since I consider religious Buddhism as an oxymoron from the get-go, although I consider philosophical Buddhism to meld nicely with Christianity. In effect, one can practice a knowingly bogus form of Christianity because we have a pretty good idea what the very earliest practitioners had in mind. There is a standard. But there is virtually no such tie between religious Buddhism and its roots because the roots are not religious in nature. So, perhaps as you�d expect (and perhaps as, in fact, has happened in reality), religious Buddhism is free to be practiced pretty much willy-nilly as one would like depending on one�s mood, culture, time of day, whatever. Apparently it can even be adapted to Nazism. | ||||
|
| <Asher> |
Freebird, It sounds like you had some unfortunate experiences with Buddhism, or Andrew Cohen? If you would like maybe you can share these. Myself, I had unfortunate experiences with Hinduism. Last month, an ex disciple of this path was trying to convince me it was a cult. I found his allegations questionable, but did research on it. In the midst of the research I felt over whelming gratitude to this Guru, for it was through his guidance that much moved and I was changed for the better. After reading several allegations of the said Guru and being moved into a sense of gratitude, I sent this Master a poem detailing why I left him etc. If it was a cult I would not have gotten this response for the said Guru: My name is Sandesh, and I am from "X". One of the moderators gave me your e-mail address. I just showed both of your poems to Guru X and after he read them he asked me to send you this message: "For these beautiful and significant poems I am offering you my blessingful gratitude" After which I felt light and bliss. My problem was with my self, my own limitations. It was also with practices which proved to be wrong for my temperment. Before I left the said Guru, I wrote him an email telling him of how my progress had stopped and my mind was frequently "blank." I found the experience was a form of quietism and thought (after staying another year) that this was as far as I could go with that Guru because of my own resistance. Clearly, I needed other practices. So I moved on. I only have gratitude now for this man and I remain friends with many of his disciples. Yet, I continue to hold the Hindu path in high esteem (although I do not practice it.) In the end, it truly made me a better person and gave me many exalted experiences of Spirit. Just thought I'd share, Asher | ||
|
In spite of recent exposes: http://www.strippingthegurus.c...lechapters/dalai.asp http://www.strippingthegurus.c...chapters/trungpa.asp I remain very impressed with His Holiness and see him as one of the finest "Christians" in Asia.  I like these hatchet jobs, as it can really narrow a bewildering array of Eastern teachers into a small and select group of relative non-misfits.  Christianity has it's share of problems: http://www.strippingthegurus.c...mplechapters/rcc.asp | ||||
|
| <Asher> |
Everything should be questioned in our age, I agree: the cultic aspects of secularism, included. | ||
|
| <Asher> |
Was thinking about a Christian man who picked me up hitch hiking down in Colorado. He was on his way to a 3 year Buddhist retreat. I asked him why he had turned away from Christianity; had he read Fr. Keatings etc etc. He knew little about his own tradition and simply said "I want to dig with one shovel etc." Now that I think about my own experience." I think the tradition that one is brought up in should be explored completely before turing to something new. Which is why I'll eventually return to Islam and Sufism, strengthened by these other faiths which helped me along the way. I think that what we are taught as children all those formative memories of religion eventually come back: my mother whispering surahs in my ear before I fell asleep in Thunder Bay. It is virtually impossible to escape ones own tradition, ones own history. This has been my experience. Which is off topic, of course;-) | ||
|
The difference is that Christianity doesn't regard any human being besides Christ as a realized Master to whom we should look for guidance in living. That's why the unethical actions of leaders from traditions which do hold such views are scandalous. I perused the book Freedbird referred us to, but don't see anything scandalous about the Dalai Lama himself. Granted, I didn't read the whole book, so maybe I missed something. The authors don't like Buddhism, especially some of the tantric practices (which aren't exactly mainstream, btw). They find conflicts with Christian teaching. Etc. Am I missing something, here? | ||||
|
Jesus said: "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad" Mathew 12:30 You are either fighting for the Lord or fighting against Him. I love as my neighbors the Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, etc., but have the courage and conviction to take a stand and not be lukewarm, nor be wishy washy about presenting a book written by the Trimondis which has caused great controversy here on this forum. The authors were treated unfairly, and what was presented in their book mocked at. Phil could see beneath the veneer and I thank him. We all have a right to agree and/or disagree with what is presented, but be fair about it. Often people attack something that they really do not know anything about, which seems somewhat the case here. I have studied Tantra extensively and must state that the Trimondis book has merit. What is unknown to us we attack instead of keeping an open mind and heart. My apologies to the Trimondies. A quote by Frank Herbert: "The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand". To Asher, my relationship was with one of Andrew Cohen's students. To my knowledge I have never met the man, and I have unconditionally forgiven the student and Andrew's involvement as the teacher for said student. A reminder to anyone who has read my story. I was a guest attending a Buddhist lecture given by a Lama and invited by two of her students. She started the lecture by saying:"gods die, and we are greater than gods". This clearly stated their beliefs on Our Beloved God who reigns as THE ONE. I received little feedback on this experience, but how you all on this topic here defended the Dalai Lama instead. The God I love is a Living God, and I love you Lord. Blessings | ||||
|
I remain very impressed with His Holiness and see him as one of the finest "Christians" in Asia. Well, I'd certainly put the Dalai Lama down (or his ghost writers�one never knows) as one of the leading pacifist thinkers in the world. It's true that he is too na�ve, but his is an honest naivety, if you know what I mean. I don't think he harbors a secret and deep hatred for the west. Such attitudes often come from the so-called "pacifists" of this day and age and such attitudes are, of course, highly contradictory, hypocritical, and, most of all, not particularly peaceful. | ||||
|
Freebird said: I have studied Tantra extensively and must state that the Trimondis book has merit. What is unknown to us we attack instead of keeping an open mind and heart. My apologies to the Trimondies. This if from paragraph one of "Buddhism and Misogyny": A well-founded critique and � where planned � a deconstruction of the Western image of Buddhism currently establishing itself should concentrate entirely upon the particular school of Buddhism known as �Tantrism� (Tantrayana or Vajrayana) for two reasons. [1] The first is that the �tantric way� represents the most recent phase in the history of Buddhism and is with some justification viewed as the supreme and thus most comprehensive doctrine of the entire system. In a manner of speaking Tantrism has integrated all the foregoing Buddhist schools within itself, and further become a receptacle for Hindu, Iranian, Central Asian, and even Islamic cultural influences. Okay, so the authors have an axe to grind against aspects of tantric Buddhism. They might even have a case. But they appear to be overzealous and overreaching. They seem intent on tainting ALL of Buddhism because of some alleged abuses of one branch of it�which they claim represents all of Buddhism (or should). They even wrote a book tying Buddhism to Nazism. That seems a bit extreme to me. Sorry if I'm wrong about this, Freebird, but these authors don't seem too tame or credible to me. But I'm actually on your side. I think Buddhism has been corrupted and it ought to be cleaned up. I'll shut up now. | ||||
|
Jesus said: "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad" Mathew 12:30 Very good point, Freebird. The message of Jesus is very clear. No matter how holy it looks like on the outer if it is not Christ-centered, Jesus remind us by the above quote again and again. Moreover, following Christ and embodying his body has nothing to do with ones involevemnt in Christian religion. | ||||
|
In Luke 9: 50, Jesus also says, "anyone who is not against you is for you." Based on what I've come to know of the Dalai Lama largely through reading him and those who've been close to him, I don't sense that he is "against" Christ (see this link). Furthermore, as I noted above, I don't see anything in the book recommended that conclusively points to any kind of dark deeds perpetrated by the Dalai Lama. <Board Admin role> Just to clarify . . . any book or movie review (or, indeed, any thread, for that matter) is "fair game" for discussion. By opening a thread, I take it to mean that the one who does so is inviting discussion of the topic and is open to hearing a variety of viewpoints. So long as these are presented respectfully, it should be no problem. Let the exchanges and even disagreements take place, and may the best ideas rise to the top. One of the things I'm very attuned to as a college instructor on critical thinking courses is the role of logical fallacies in sabatoging discussions. A few have appeared on this thread. E.g., a false dilemma fallacy and appeals to authority and vast experience. What works much better is to state what one agrees and disagrees with and why. As you all know from other discussions, there are a wide range of viewpoints concerning issues like salvation and the merits of other religions held by good, holy, orthodox Christians. We need to remember and respect that. </Board Admin role> | ||||
|
Wow, Phil, whereever did you find that story? Also, I see that I can learn much about having these type of discussions. Sometimes I react without thinking and having all my multiple personalities flying in formation. This is very good timing for me, with several of Thurman's books and about ten of the Dalai Lama's in the TBR stack. I must move cautiously, yet optimistically. Sorry if I stepped on any toes, and I love you all! (ignoring my evil twin) At this point I would like to recommend a Buddhist nun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pema_Chodron and let His Holiness speak for himself, which he does quite eloquently, given English is a second language. (as for myself at times) http://www.motherjones.com/new...1997/11/thurman.html As an added treat for Brad, a picture of the interviewers daughter: (please remain calm, now) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uma_Thurman caritas, mm <*))))>< | ||||
|
My decision to leave Shalom Place for awhile is not sudden and has nothing to do with this thread. For several weeks now in prayer and meditation I have been guided to continue my narrow path with Christ. I have walked my solitary path with Christ for the last nine years and it is my greatest joy and blessing. He is my Life and Being and without Him I cannot do one thing on my own. I want to thank Phil, Grace and all the women on this forum who I love and hold close to my heart. I have learned much from you all. Thank you for having been part of my life. In Christ's love and light, Freebird Jesus Prayer for all Believers (John 17:20-26) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that the also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone , but for them also which shall believe on me through their word: That they all may be one; as thou, Father , art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me, I have given them: that they may be one, even as we are one. I in them, and thou in me that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me , and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given to me, be with me where I am ; and that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them. In Christ Jesus who is the answer to every prayer. | ||||
|
You're always welcome back, Freebird -- even later today, if you'd like. Re. your "narrow path," I hope you've picked up something here to deepen your faith and broaden your horizons. You have certainly enriched us all with your experience and wisdom. | ||||
|
LOL! That motherjones.com site has an ad with a paranoid message about the Patriot Act. Good interview, though; Americans (and even Christian Americans) are interested in Buddhism because addicted and addictive America needs to learn about moderation, detachment and awareness. That's all there in Christianity, but the Buddhists have developed these disciplines to a very high degree. As you all know from hundreds of exchanges on this, I don't think it's the same as the Christian spiritual journey, but it doesn't follow that it's bad. Au contraire . . . Pema_Chodron: very good writer on detachment and awareness. One of her books helped me get through a very tough time in 1999. I will always think fondly of her for that. | ||||
|
Freebird, I'm really glad you brought this up. I was just about to obtain another copy of Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, and now find some rather disturbing news: http://www.childoffortune.com/randy.sogyal.htm Thank you for the heads-up, and I'll be reconsidering the merits of some of these teachers. Here is a discussion at beliefnet which may be of interest: http://bible.beliefnet.com/boa...&discussionID=371150 Peace to you and, caritas, mm <*))))>< | ||||
|
Dearest Freebird, Thank you for sharing your love so openly. I have been encouraged by your faith and wisdom. I will miss you. In the Love of Our Beloved Christ, Tate | ||||
|
Phil, Reader's Digest is about as mainstream as it comes. He's not just Mother Jones anymore: http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/dalai.htm Pema has a wonderful sense of humour, and she is so very real when she speaks about getting all tangled up and messed up along the path. Humility can be so refreshing. I do hope to see more teachers like her. I know you like Ravi Zacharias. This imaginary conversation between Buddha, Jesus and a woman named Priya is very touching: http://www.christianbook.com/C...page=386406&event=PR In a paradoxical manner, Buddha leads me to a deeper understanding of Jesus. God moves in mysterious ways... One of our shalomplace favorites, (see bookstore) John Powell, S.J. : http://www.hopeway.org/lifehelps/unclove.asp A Jesuit with the same message as the Dalai Lama! (I hope it's not too late for me to learn this) happysabbathday.net | ||||
|
Freebird, I understand that you are in need of withdrawal. The body of our Lord Jesus Christ demands withdrawal inorder to integrate in our physical body. You have been the shining light of Christ in this board. In those short period you have been here we were delighted to see the wisdom and Love of Christ through you. Thank you very much. We are always one through Christ | ||||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Book and Movie Reviews The Shadow of the Dalai Lama | View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |