Here's an interesting article posted on Katy's web site.

. . . energy vampires exude negative energy that drains. Vampires range from the intentionally malicious ones to those who are oblivious to their effect. Some are overbearing and obnoxious; others are friendly and charming. For example, you're at a party talking to a perfectly nice person, but suddenly you're nauseous or weak. Or how about the co-worker who drones on about how she broke up with her boyfriend for the tenth time? Eventually, she feels better, but you're spent. The bottom line is that on a subtle energy level these people suck you dry.

I've had this happen before and have had to learn how to set boundaries about this kind of problem. It's an ongoing problem for counselors; even if you keep your boundaries straight, you can get pretty polluted. The web page cited above has some good suggestions on how to deal with this.

-------

What I'd like to describe now is a kind of "subspecies" of energy vampires that I've run across through the years.

On two occasions, I have gotten mixed up with people that I'm convinced were using the Internet to "feed." In both cases, the dynamics go as follows:
1. Establish dialogue concerning a topic you're both passionate about.

2. At some point, take one or two of your points, misrepresent them, and ridicule you for it, attributing unflattering motives to your (misrepresented) points.
- remember, this is done in a public forum.

3. You try to clarify what you think is a "misunderstanding," thus establishing a deeper energetic connection with this person via thought.

4. Your clarification is misrepresented again, more unflattering motives are attributed. Sometimes other vampires appear, harping on the situation, eager for a feed.

5. Feeling royally incensed, you lay into them, which delights them even more. A deeper energetic bond is established. You find you can't stop thinking about the situation even if you try. Various aches and pains develop in your body. Your awareness becomes polluted by an ongoing inner dialogue with the vampire. This dialogue, btw, signals ongoing energy transfer via thought. You are literally being "fed" upon and thought is the "feeding tube".

6. You walk away from the situation, stop posting and reading, and the feeding subsides. If you return to the forum, you notice the vampire has picked other subjects and is leading them to the place of bonding, then discounting, then feeding. Some of these vampires are superb artists at this. Some also seem to have a retinue of followers who participate in feedings as well, although on more subtle levels.

I've had some of this go on via email exchanges--in some cases with individuals who still try for a feeding years after they've been dismissed. There is always a play to the victim's more civilized side--forgiveness, compassion, sympathy for the victim you've created (i.e., the energy-starved vampire). If you respond and attempt civilized discourse, it might go well for awhile, then the usual dynamics of discounting and invalidation set it, opening up the feeding tube again.

Maybe some of you identify with this stuff. It's not exactly co-dependency, but the recovery guidelines for codependency work fairly well in dealing with it. The best recourse when you find this happening with someone more than once is to just walk away from the situation/relationship if you can. That's not always easy, because your ordinary processes for judging and discerning get get pretty messed up when you're in the middle of it. Vampires that feed on anger, in particular, can keep your judgment clouded. Bring your attention to the present moment, do what you're doing, and ask the Spirit to heal you.

For those struggling with kundalini issues, be especially careful. Energy vampires seem to zero in on us as especially delightful feasts. The degree of disturbance they can create is also heightened. I don't think it's quite the same as the kinds of psychic disturbances that other forum members have described, but there's an invasion of space that is most definitely unpleasant and disruptive.

OK, how's that for an opening post?

Questions, comments welcomed

Belated Halloween topic? I know I am an HSP from the Elaine Aaron's book. I saw a new one which deals with HSPs in relationships.
Emotional Vampires: dealing with people who drain you dry by Albert J Bernstein Ph.D. is an interesting read. You have five basic types;
The Antisocial Types
Histrionic Types
Narcissistic Types
Obsessive Compulsive Types
Paranoid Types

He shows how to deal with each in turn. Avoidance is best, but what if you can't get away?
Another good book is I Hate You, Don't Leave Me : Understanding the Borderline Personality by Jerold L Kreisman MD and Hal Straus. If you have one of these in your life, as I do, I feel your pain.
The world is changing and perhaps more HSPs will be able to find each other for mutual support.
Thanks for the topic and the link

michael <*))))><

Michael, yes, I've suffered much from a borderline with narcissistic tendencies for years. It's just impossible to communicate with such a person. During the past year, a distance has been attained, primarily because I haven't replied to the relentless barrage of whiney emails and letters. The emails have slowed to a trickle.

Well, you are in good company Saint Anthony and Buddha had to battle some demons.
There is a physical effect on the body from such an encounter. I am recovering from an attack yesterday.
I had to get up in someone's face. I haven't hit anyone in 25 years, but the way I looked at this guy last night, he knew what would happen if he made the first move.
I responded to a verbal attack. Perhaps this was unskillful, but bullies sometimes understand only their own language. Jesus told some disciples to take a sword if they needed one.
Good luck with your energy sucker, freind.
michael <*))))><

Although I haven't split hairs as far as you have yet I definitely find there are all sorts of variations on that theme. In Barbara Brennan's book, Hands of Light, she explores several unhealthy types of interactions that occur between people. She classified a few specific ones and, even though she never used the term "energy vampire", you can pretty easily see that type of interaction/personality crop up in a few of her examples. At any rate, the ways in which these vampires manipulate and abuse the situation can vary largely (imho) on what their personal issues are. Perhaps that's a deeper issue than the fact that they suck energy (meaning the energy sucking is only a means to an end) or it might be a shallower issue (meaning the energy sucking is really the deeper issue and the personality problem is only a surface issue).

Hi Will. Good to see you visiting here again. I hope all is going well with you.

At any rate, the ways in which these vampires manipulate and abuse the situation can vary largely (imho) on what their personal issues are. Perhaps that's a deeper issue than the fact that they suck energy (meaning the energy sucking is only a means to an end) or it might be a shallower issue (meaning the energy sucking is really the deeper issue and the personality problem is only a surface issue).

Right. I'm sure much of this is pretty unconscious to the "vampire." My main concern, here, is identifying the problem so that anyone who might have one of these in their lives can name the phenomenon and take steps to protect themselves.

Hi Phil. It's nice to be back.

As to the ways to deal with it...I haven't developed a ton of personal wisdom but one thing I did find interesting about the Brennan book was that she identified a few different personality types and then went on the list how each of those types uses various ways to steal, keep or hold out energy. There are all sorts of variations, but, she does list the type of activity you are talking about. The book is at home and I will have to condense a lot of info though it seems pretty good.

Besides, I am interested to see what others think of her suggestions. Not only does she say, "Do x, y and x" to deal with these people, but, she offers explainations as to why certain personality types have developed and fundamental ways to help these people without getting trapped in their dramas.

As a Christian I worry about reading new age books at times, but, I believe that all truth is God's truth and I pray that and deceptions would be revealed right away. I have hesitated to use some of her suggestions for dealing with these various issues, but, would like other's input on how well they think these ods might work.

Will, I haven't read the book, but I can certainly go along with this statement by you: As a Christian I worry about reading new age books at times, but, I believe that all truth is God's truth and I pray that and deceptions would be revealed right away.

Do you have experience with these vampire types? I wonder how common the experience really is?

Although I am a little bit of a strange bird myself, I do find that my "willing ear" tends to attract this personality quirk fairly regularly. My own personality has a few characteristics that set me up: sensitive, eager to please, intelligent, analytical, generally unaffected by emotion and reserved by nature. It has been my experience that these people tend to "need" the dynamics of feedback; in other words, they require some obvious cues that you are really "giving" them what they want.

I guess another way to think about it is a clear sign that they have latched on to your energy. I usually enjoy a good debate so I get sucked into it fairly quickly, but, I try to stay out of it. Seeing as I have an overly active mind (the invisible and unspoken mental link that keeps on working even when the person is not in sight) it's also easy for me to confuse meditation and reflection on an issue with internalized debates and arguments.

As soon as I start seeing specific people or talking to specific people in my mind I generally have learned to realize that I am talking to them whether they are there or not. Having never deeply studied transpersonal psychology I don't have observable evidence to refer to, but, I do know that the dynamics of relationships where I have had these drawn out debates or conversations are different in spite of the fact that nothing has actually been verbalized in person. If nothing else, I have altered my own attitudes (for better or worse) as a result of the "conversation" we have had.

Now, my intuition suggests that it is really a spiritual struggle going on that our minds pick up on. Since I'm a very imaginative and visual person, my mind tries to process these internal conflicts with images and voices of the people themselves. At the same time I am really struggling with my own response to issues. So, whether the issue is 1) another person literally taking my energy or 2) me dissipating my own energy over my vivified andimagined interpretation of what I think another person would say if we were actually having a conversation about the issue between us....(that was long-winded)....the energy and the attitudes do actually change. That's the most important thing: regardless of whether the other party is present or not, relationships change when we engage in challenging our own parts in those relationships.

I know off the top of my head, there are specific issue that I haven't internalized yet from the Brennan book about how to deal with particular personality types. For example, she outlines in one of the books that a person with an oral (although not necessarily in the strict psychotherapeutic sense of the word) personality that their relationship evokes a mothering tendency whereas a schizoid personality evokes intellectualization. Whereas the oral person communications in questions, the schizoid communicates in absolutes....the language of the oral person is indirect while the schizoid uses depersonalized language.

These are just a few examples of what she is talking about. I have not honed my skills enough to listen to a conversation and observe a conversation to be aware of these sorts of subtleties all the time, but, when I do find myself being alert and particularly awake I find myself using certain ways of communication that line up here.

Applying this to the vampire issue, I don't have the skill sharpened enough at the moment to write out exactly my interpretation of the interactional process is (and how to deal with these types) but what you've written is right on. I do know that, as much as I to completely withdraw from a relationship, at times, people like this force us to do so in order to maintain our own health...breaking free of the parasite.

Even in that little bit though I see a possibility. By "forcing" us into a position where we have to completely remove ourselves from the lives of these people there is an underlying dilemma of abandonment. Perhaps people who have this personality issue have a fundamental issue with attachment; in their lives they have learned that people will always leave. If that is a fundamental believe they may develop a self-fulfilling tendency to have all their relationships end up either in emotional abuse (those who let them suck their lives away) or in those who break away (abandonment realized and false belief reaffirmed). If that's the case, then the constant fear of being left or the guilt of unconscious emotional abuse is a great motivator for lots of the behavior going on.

A proper response might be to reassure them of their own sufficiency and to try and help them develop their own strenght using positive language. That gets into the area I'm not real saavy on. I really need to read that book tonight.

Interesting thread. The dysfunctional interpersonal dynamics you've all described likely are clearly overdetermined, which is to say that they are very complex and due to manifold psychological factors. Let me offer another, albeit oversimplified, dynamism that I became familiar with in the business world. I sense it may have been at play in the situation Phil described.

There is a dynamism that can occur in any situation where there is a great assymetry in power, in status, in celebrity, in wealth or what have you. The dynamism is further agrravated when this assymetry also involves a gender difference.

While there can be no doubt that persons with power, wealth, status or celebrity often exploit people in their orbit, I can assure you that very often these people are besieged by --- well, let's call it what it is --- seductresses. Let me call this the Lilith Effect. Such lilithesque groupies are engaged in nothing but a transparent attempt to access power, wealth, status or celebrity by taking a shortcut through someone else's life. They can be known, not only from their overt sexual advances but also from their more subtle sexual innuendos and, whether overtly sexual or not, can be further known from their attempts to establish an inappropriate level of familiarity with the object of their Lilithputian aims. They attempt this by trying to bypass the formal and/or professional aspects of a relationship in order to achieve a more informal and intimate relationship, which is then marked by their attempts to parade this faux-friendship in front of other people, as if to assure themselves and others that they indeed are in their object's inner circle, emotionally or otherwise. This can be done in any number of ways: sometimes insulting or deriding the celebrity-object without reprisal in front of others, sometimes tossing out any possible tidbit of personal info about the celebrity-object, sometimes acting more intimate in conversational tone or substance with the celebrity-object, etc and all in an explicit (though maybe even unconscious) attempt to demonstrate to oneself and others that the Lilith-wannabe truly belongs in the celeb-object's inner circle with all of the access to the wealth, power, status or celebrity that is lacking in the Lilith-wannabe's own life. S/he may attempt to gain access through their object's family or friends.

Thus some underlings attempt to seduce their bosses or to establish friendly, informal relations over against formal, professional relations. Thus some groupies attach themselves to rock stars, etc This short-cut to establish parity where none truly exists, to eliminate the assymetry, can take the form of derisive insults with plaintive claims that "you are no better than me," which, however true that may indeed be, doesn't really need to be said, does it?, except that the sad plight of the seductress is to attempt to upsize him/herself by downsizing another rather than becoming someone in their own right in the sight of themselves, others and God.

Cutting straight through any pyschoanlytical-babble, what Phil described sounds like a groupie in the most pejorative sense. It is a sad dynamic that plays out in Hollywood and on Wall Street and in every hill, valley and plain in between. It is why professional distance is so very important.

pax,
jb

Thus some underlings attempt to seduce their bosses or to establish friendly, informal relations over against formal, professional relations. Thus some groupies attach themselves to rock stars, etc This short-cut to establish parity where none truly exists, to eliminate the assymetry, can take the form of derisive insults with plaintive claims that "you are no better than me," which, however true that may indeed be, doesn't really need to be said, does it?, except that the sad plight of the seductress is to attempt to upsize him/herself by downsizing another rather than becoming someone in their own right in the sight of themselves, others and God.

That�s an excellent description of groupies � rock star groupies or otherwise, JB. I wonder if people such as Elvis faced more hardship than we realize.

As for energy vampires in general, I can be a bit like that. We�re always looking for confirmation of our selves through others. That�s normal I suppose. When does it become abnormal? I�m not sure. But there�s another side to this coin. While we might describe the people who contribute to our emotional stress as vampires, we might also refer to ourselves as bleeders.

We are social creatures. That is for sure. That means that we react, consciously or otherwise, to the world around us. But how do we frame this question overall? Is it the other people sucking energy (causing stress), or is it we, because of our own vulnerabilities, who are truly at fault? In certain ways the so-called energy vampires can do us a favor if we are willing to face up to our weaknesses and insecurities. They needn�t teach us to be callous or rude, but they can, as Phil has said, teach us how to create proper boundaries. And I think, more importantly, they can teach us not to so willingly allow our energy to be leached. Unless others hold some sort of magical power over us, it is still ultimately up to us how we�re going to react to people. When someone holds power over you (such as a boss), it can become a bit more complicated but I still think it is in our power to change the way we react to others.

Great points, Brad. There are issues of codependency and enabling that can emerge, too, eh? My modus operandus when in business was to be firm, fair and friendly and, if necessary fire 'em, and, under no circumstances, flirt/fornicate! I called it the 5 F's of CEOship.

pax,
jb