Hi all,

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Phil

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This is topic Kundalini and psychic attack in forum Kundalini Issues and Spiritual Emergencies at Shalom Place Discussion Board.

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Posted by Stephen (Member # 183) on 05-28-2002, 02:53 PM:

So glad to find Kundalini addressed from a Christian perspective.Perhaps my own story will raise a few issues for folks to ponder.I'll try to be brief.
Was brought up in Brethern churches.Devoted Christian until about the age of 18 when began to wander into drug culture(And here's something interesting - Kundalini and drug use). 7 years ago, aged 24, began experiencing these symptoms -
burning sensation at the base of my spine,
hearing my name called as I lay to sleep,
sensation of a bird flying around inside me,
energy rushes - sometimes blissful;othertimes anxious,
burning in my body, telepathic sensitivity, precognition.
Because I was unprepared and on drugs I had a weird mental breakdown.Every night, when I went to bed, conversations and scenarios filled my head. I thought I had tapped into some collective consciousness.

Eventually gave up drugs and things settled down.
My research into what had happened to me led me to a knowledge of Kundalini and Eastern mysticism - so I explored.

Got involed with new age groups, spiritual healers , practised yoga and all kinds of taoist exercises.

Then I began to suffer psychic attacks and for a while ,3 years ago went thro' a traumatic time. These attacks sprang from fool-hardy practise and association with "healers" and I found that I was living in a massive deja vu. Everything I had heard as voices while lying in bed at night during my mental breakdown was now being lived thro, 3 years on. I felt trapped, was completely taumatised.

I have recovered and given myself to Christ once again, although I still suffer attacks from dangerous individuals, not demons but occultists. Indeed just this month psychic channels have re-opened after contact with a Christian healer .I am very attracted by Charismatic worship and praise and go to a local Chrrismatic church but find that there is a confusion with the work of the Holy Spirit and Kundalini in what they do and that there is an ignorance of the relationship between Charismatic phenomena and Kundalini.

The Lord has certainly enriched my life recently and , despite continuing attack ,he is teaching me acceptance and hope and faith in His power.There are many overlapping phenomena in Kundalini awakening and the work of the Holy Spirit. The Lord is teaching me discernment. Praising Him, enjoying His creation is a continual delight .
Posted by Phil (Member # 1) on 05-28-2002, 07:22 PM:

Thanks for sharing of your story, Stephen. Sounds like you've been around the block with this struggle, but judging from your last two paragraphs, it's coming out in a very good place.

Ditto your observation of a connection between pentecostalism and kundalini phenomena, only you can have the latter without the former, which should tell us something. I find the pentecostal gifts--especially glossalalia--very stimulating of the energy, but in a way that orders and balances it in the process.

Keep us posted on how things go for you.

Phil
Posted by priya (Member # 121) on 05-29-2002, 12:03 AM:

Stephen

Now that you have found your way back to Christ, handling all those strange experiences should be easier because Jesus is the rock you can cling to. Spiritual experiences are not necessarily divine. Along the spiritual path, high emotional states are distractions at best. Once you stop desiring those emotional states and stop mistaking them for deeply spiritual experiences, you can learn to live through the storm, clinging to Jesus. My two cents worth : accept the experiences without resistance, but do not give them a value they do not possess. Slowly the intensity will decrease when you focus your attention on Jesus. Have you tried centering prayer? Phil can give you more help and guidance there. That should be the best solution to your problem.
Posted by Stephen (Member # 183) on 05-30-2002, 08:55 AM:

Thanks for your replies, guys.

Faith, hope and love are the keys, learning to be grounded and focused on the Rock. Any advice on centring prayer would be welcome,Phil. Good advice, priya ,on not giving too much value to the experience. Someone else told me that recently.
Posted by priya (Member # 121) on 06-01-2002, 05:37 AM:

Stephen

I'm sure Phil will get back to you with his guidance and help. In the meantime I thought I should let you know that there are several good books on the subject. Some of the really well known authors are:

Thomas Keating
Basil Pennington
John Main
William Johnston
Thomas Merton
Bede Griffiths (www.bedegriffiths.com):
Return to the Centre
Posted by priya (Member # 121) on 06-01-2002, 06:07 AM:

To continue:

Some of the advice given by Dom Bede Griffiths:

"Recollect yourself in the presence of God everyday, if possible morning and evening. This can change your whole life. You can begin by reading the Gospel - the Sermon on the Mount or St. John's Gospel 14-17 so as to establish a living relationship with Christ. Then I suggest using the Jesus prayer or some other 'mantra' to bring the mind to stillness. This is the major need, to control the mind and get it 'centred'. It takes time and energy but if you can once bring the mind under control, you can organise your whole life. But this means also that you have to surrender your life to God. "Cast all your care on Him for He has care for you". This is fundamental. If you can once make the act of surrender and renew it daily, you will find that God will take over. Another power comes into one's life and takes charge of it.

"Meditation is very important. You have to learn to go beyond your physical and psychological conflicts to the deep centre where you discover your true self and the healing power of God's love. Try to sit quietly every day and try to recollect yourself and let all the conflicts subside using the Jesus prayer or whatever appeals to you. The healing power is there deep within you, but it cannnot work unless the mind becomes calm.

"My advice always is to try to give time to meditation - to recollect oneself in the presence of God. If one can establish an inner peace and renew it every day for half an hour or so, one can get the strength to face all the problems as they arise, and to realise that God is present in one's life. All these trials and difficulties will pass with time but one's relation to Christ as the indwelling Spirit remains constant and will survive all the trials of life.

"In prayer one has to open the heart in love, beyond all the fears and frustrations of this present world. There is infinite love behind and beyond all this, if one can only break through to it. You should read St. John's Gospel, especially chapters 14 to 17. "If anyone loves me, my Father will love him and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him". It is spoken to you.

"In a crisis the supreme need is to find the deep self which is always in touch with God and gives one an inner security and peace. Of course it is not easy...Meditation, just attending to God alone can make all the difference.

"Surrender your life to God. Become totally detached from all things and persons and open yourself to the total love of God which is going to be given to you and is going to transform your life. There is no doubt and no fear if you trust yourself completely to that love.
Posted by linda (Member # 25) on 06-13-2002, 03:02 PM:

I haven't been visiting these boards as frequently as I was, but wanted to respond to Stephen in hopes that he's checking in now and then. I also experimented with the spiritualist types in my kundalini experience, and it led to dire psychic attacks,which years later, I still experience. I completely turned to Christ and all methods of spiritual protection (i.e. St. Michael), which has helped and really kept me sane through the worst of it. In my research on those topic and also after talking to many people, I think think the best recourse is to stay grounded, keep yourself around the best hearted people and most positive situations that you can, a positive physical environment, and take care of your health - i.e. keep your body, mind and spirit in as much balance as possible.

And beware of putting yourself even in very stron g Christian charismatic energy for too long of a time. The light also attracts the dark, and as much of a relief that a lengthy time in terrific energy can bring, the darker entities can also retaliate. In fact, it can be expected. I've discussed in particular with a well known Catholic charismatic nun, Mother Nadine Brown of Intercessors of the Lamb, who are considered experts in Christian spiritual warfare. Be assured Christ will protect you, but you are likely to be battling darker, denser spirits, particularly with an imbalanced kundalini situation. Mother Nadine doesn't speak about this in terms of kundalini, but as one of the most grounded and holy people I've ever encountered, she has talked about battling the dark forces. If she can feel and see it, and she's not dealing with imbalanced subtle energy bodies, then you'll understand why those of us whose energy is less centered due to exposure to occultic disorder are seeing and experiencing far more dire energy ont he lower astral planes.

Stephen, hang in there, and really study up on the Christian path of purificaiton. I hope the negative stuff abates for you.
Posted by priya (Member # 121) on 06-14-2002, 06:00 AM:

Linda,

At least 20 years ago I attended some Charismatic meetings. At a Charismatic retreat however I realised that the Charismatic prayer can throw some emotional aspects totally out of balance. There were lots of hysterics at the retreat and those of us who didn't get hysterical felt that we were somehow not really participating. I remember going around feeling that I was possessed because every single thing not in order seemed/implied to be due to possession by an evil spirit. I remember feeling sorry for everyone who wasn't in the Charismatic movement. I remember trying to concentrate on the flowery prayers I wanted to say before the 'audience', rather than focusing on Jesus. I remember that there was supposed to be a case of possession, that needed intense prayer. I remember dreading the prayer of a group member because when she started she would go on and on about some white clouds that I wanted to scream "For God's sake stop it and let the white clouds be"!

I'm glad that after that retreat I came to the conclusion that I needed something less emotional. There could well be a lot of hysterics and emotional display without any depth you know.

I believe each of us can find our way to God in different ways. You are right about remaining rooted and grounded in Christ being the most important aspect to focus on no matter what happens in the course of our spiritual journey.

What about sexual/kundalini energy that is released? There is only one simple rule to follow: Submit that energy to the power of love. Everyone may have as many sexual feelings as they like but if one makes a commitment to give physical expression to that energy only in the context of a loving relationship, then there is no dilemma. There is always a struggle involved in controlling the urge/impulse of course, but it gets easier to handle with time and practice once we know the reason for keeping it under control.

Saying the Jesus prayer is a great help there as in everything else.

Although some great Christian meditation teachers claim it really doesn't matter what 'mantra' we use in meditation, I do believe that the name 'Jesus' has a lot of power. When the disciples worked miracles they always said 'In the Name of Jesus be healed'. If that name did not have power, the disciples would not have found it necessary to use the Name of Jesus each time. Even in Hindu meditation, the mantra that is chosen is in most cases, the name of the favourite diety of the devotee. Calling out the name of their favourite deity is supposed to be important in meditation. It is not just a symbol to still the mind.
Posted by linda (Member # 25) on 06-14-2002, 11:54 AM:

Priya,

Several comments to your post. Re Chrisitan charimatic meetings, I've also had the same reaction you have, and after observing them over the years, I've come to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit works the way it needs to. For participants who have repressed emotional lives, they may be stimulated to become more expressive in joy or even negative emotions, such as acting out dramatically, or even more silly (I've watching amazed with the "holy laugther" phenemona when I've watched it sweep through a crowd.) I've learned to stay in a very objective somewhat detached stance in those settings and quietly drinking in any healing energy that I can. But since my subtle energy bodies, as a result of the kundalini awakening, are more sensitive, I do find the emotionalism somewhat difficult to manage energetically. ANd, as I noted in my last post, I've also seen and experienced demonic energies both during and after these kinds of sessions.

After some horrific psychic experiences in other paths, i.e. Eastern mystic, Buddhism, etc., I mistakenly thought that I would be completely safe in any Christian worship setting and what I wanted to point out to Stephen was that I didn't find that the case, and that was validated by people like Mother Nadine,w ho are certainly more advanced in their spiritual walk than me. I do indeed find praying to Jesus, simply through repeating his name, helpful. But you also have to remember that the mantras of the Eastern traditions are shaped to match the sound of the words themselves to certain chakras, energy phenomena as defined by some of the great mystical masters and may be helpful to other people. I have to say that I had incredibly unimpleasant aftereffects after using certain mantras that had been recommended to me - another reason I decided to follow CHristianity exclusively. But perhaps that's because I'm best wired for Christianity genetically, emotionally,etc. That's what I came in as, was baptised and raised, and though I veered from from the path, my return has been redemptive, and was certainly pushed forward by an umbalanced kundalini awakening that happened when I was exposed to the siddha energies of a Eastern mystic.
Posted by Stephen (Member # 183) on 06-15-2002, 10:08 AM:

Linda,

Many thanks! Your advise and experience are much valued.
I find that music acts as mantra or protection.During severe attacks( some recent) my mind automatiacally plays a tune . Top of my hit parade recently has been Bach's "Jesu, joy of man's desiring" and some modern choruses from the likes of Mission Praise. I believe that this music is acting as a kind of lock.The name of Jesus has been my lock during the most stormy moments.
The path of purification referred to (and this relates to priya's comments on sexuality within a loving relationship) is a long re-learning process, after years of Christian morality being eroded, and your comments on health and positivity are invaluable.
The Lord has blessed me with an optimism, despite the darkness.
Also, regards light attracting darkness and the Charismatic experience, you are really confirming things I am in the process of learning.
I would be interested in hearing more about/from Mother Nadine.

God bless.
Posted by linda (Member # 25) on 06-15-2002, 10:43 AM:

Stephen,

Glad to be of some help. Actually, a kundalini imbalance itself leds to a very personalized process of healing. What works for one person, specifically, may not work for you. Just depends on how you're wired and what the negative psychic influences have been. Here's some suggestions if you plan to follow the Christian path above all others: Eucharist as much as your path permits. It is truly, from my standpoint, the most important puritication ritual. And really all the classical spiritual disciplines - confession re going to the other psychic healers, repentence, coming humbly before Christ and asking his forgiveness. It is truly a personal relationship that you're forming. Healing prayer (short and too the point, unless your kundalini is really steadying out. I found the hands on stuff, and any emotionalism by a participant didn't help much at all. Christ doesn't need the dramatics) at least on a weekly basis, preferably after Eucharist, with a trusted prayer partner(s), reading the bible and writings by the Christian saints, etc. to cleanse your mind and center on the glory of God. It sounds as if you're automaticaly doing that with the Jesu song. Kundalini can lead to a form of clairaudience, as I assume you know, so some part of your consciousness may be already and automaticaly plugging into the celestial realms.

Re the heightened sexuality aspects an imbalanced kundalini can bring up, that can be a really rough period and I advise really keeping in mind only the most healthy aspects of what sex is about and practicing a great deal of self control in darker periods.

Intercessors of the Lamb has a website: www.bellwetheromaha.com and I advise two books by Mother Nadine: God's Armor and Interceding with Jesus. Her tape series on spiritual warfare is also invaluable.

I also went to several herbalists to help with my bio chemistry, which was severely out of whack at one point and I found regular medication that my MD prescribed (from tranquiliers to a light anti depressant) didn't help the weird movement of the pranic energy at all or the mind gamaes. It actually made me sick since my body has a hard time with any kind of medication, so herbs were easier and helped.

And I certainly heard all the regular advice re balancing the kundalini, from controlled breathing, yogic postures, mantras, and went to my share of energy healers, shamans, and psychic healers who claimed they could help or give additional insight. In my case it was a complete waste of money and a lot of the feedback I could have been pretty damaging without discernment ( I.e. past life explanations of why I'd had a kundalini awakening, and experiencing psychic attacks.) Yoga helps for keeping body/mind flexible, and to keep the energy running in a more balanced way, but if you're in a severe imbalance, any strenous physical activity can really do more harm that good. (I had to give up a jogging routine for nearly a year and still don't regularly follow one since my kudanlini awakening. It's the wrong exercise for my body now) Remember, balance is the key.

Remember our Christian God is a god of deep love and also of order. (look at the later chapters of Isaiah - sp? sorry!) and pray for the Holy Spirit to heal your body mind and spirit and bring you into the order that you were created for and the grace to be guided each step of the way.
Posted by linda (Member # 25) on 06-15-2002, 12:52 PM:

One last recommendation for Stephen or anyone else out there suffering from pranic energy chaos re kundalini, I did find a particular kundalini yoga helpful. Book: Eight Human Talents by Gurmuckh, a kundalini yoga instructor at The Golden Bridge in Los Angeles very good in recommending postures, breathing exercises, for each chakra. She's a kindly soul (though her classes are pretty difficult!) and book can be ordered via amazon.com or website www.goldenbridgeyoga.com. Also, her instructor/guru, Yogi Bhajan has published a paperback "Yoga for Health and Healing," and I found particular poses for certain distressing times really helpful. He recommends poses, breathing, for various physical and emotional imbalances, and I found certain poses helpful when pranic energy was burning through various organs - I just took his recommendations for say, stomach disorder, and practiced for that particular organ if the energy was a problem there. OF course, nothing too strenuous, but I generally found some relief. Also, Stephen, for demonic/astral distress, that's usually located around the third eye (sixth chakra) and I found that mental focussing exercises he recommended, such as fixing my concentration on the third eye point, and turning my eyes gently upward and inwards for small periods of time helped.

I had practiced yoga (though hardly as a devotee) prior to my kundalini imbalance and have gone to various instructors afterwards, but found Gurmuck and Yoga Bhajan the most knowledgeable. In fact, some of the poses recommended by other so-called experts actually were completely wrong, which is why I found no relief. The problem with this whole kundalini phenomena that so many people are experiencing symptoms and there are too many people in various walks - from yoga to naturalist healing and energy healers, spiritual instructors - claiming to have expertise, but they really don't. Most conventional spiritual teachers, such as the most well meaning priest, may have some great input on spiritual direction, but know nothing about the kundalini on a physical level and how devasting it can be. SO its trial and error for those of us struggling along in finding good advice.
Posted by Phil (Member # 1) on 06-15-2002, 02:08 PM:

Nice going, gang! This has turned into a very substantive discussion touching on a lot of issues that we've gone into on some of the other threads, but not in the same way. I haven't really much to add, except to say amen to much of what you've all noted. In all my dealings with people struggling with this energy process, one thing that's really stayed with me is how individualized the process is, and also how important it is to create a healthy, balanced "container" for it. But even do's and don'ts for that are not easy to numerate, except that practices like prayer, moral living, a balanced diet, moderate exercise, and Eucharist seem to be helpful to almost everyone. Beyond that, it's "catch as catch can" with the yogic practices.

I would like to put in a plug for glossalalia, though not in the context of highly-charged charismatic prayer meetings. I've found this form of prayer spontaneously suggesting itself for years and years, and believe it plays a part in both stimulating the energy process and in balancing it. Recall, as Linda noted, how sound has an effect on the energy. I believe the sounds uttered in glossalalia, even under the breath, stimulate the chakras, but under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and in just the right way to move the energy into conformity with the divine will.

I'm aware that those reading this thread who don't know much about kundalini, glossalalia and so forth must wonder what it's all about. But that's OK. I'm happy to sponsor this public discussion of this issue, as I, too, am aware of how difficult it is to find other Christians struggling with the process, not to mention good guidance on how to integrate it.
Posted by Stephen (Member # 183) on 06-16-2002, 11:32 AM:

Phil,

My own experience of glossalalia has been, in the main , edifying, but, right now, while parts of my consciousness just happen to be "occupied" or invaded by some form of nasty nastiness, practising tongues seems to provoke that nastiness .
Praying with any level of intensity provokes a similar response so I have to keep things short and cool - a bit like my posts at the moment!!

Stephen.
Posted by linda (Member # 25) on 06-16-2002, 02:56 PM:

Stephen,

Brief comment on your last post, generally, yours is a good plan. What you dub "nasties" actually take the form of energy loops in the auric field - a loop that gets aggrevated and sort of blows up more as more energy is fed into it. (Which is why a lot of trauma therapy, where people go screaming their heads off thinking they're offloading and will be healing usually just stirs things up more and shoots out their brain chemistry.) SO when you're working through a loop that has a verbal component, (you notice if you feed it, even by the most well meaning prayer, that the "nasties" take over), the best action is silence, practicing the fruit of self control) and concentrating on your heart and compassion, (i.e. holy music may be a great way to stimulate) for yourself and your memories. Like any loop, energy loops can be broken by making them brittle - i.e. feeding little energy into them and weakening them. Spend time praying for discernment about that the loop is about and ask for guidance about how to break it. It really is a form of binding, bondage, emotional, spiritual, subconscious, whatever. Ask Jesus to break you from that bondage and heal whatever factors led you there.

Hope you find helpful.
Posted by Phil (Member # 1) on 06-17-2002, 03:14 PM:

Linda, I just want to note that you've become quite adept at naming some of these issues and recommending helpful solutions. Maybe not many reading this know what you mean by "energy loops" or "making them brittle," but I surely do, and have suffered much from these, at times. Your counsel is very good.

It seems there is a blessing coming out of that struggle you've been through! [Wink]

Phil
Posted by willsteele (Member # 136) on 06-17-2002, 10:35 PM:

I wanted to focus on something you said, which, from my own, very similar experiences, has had a powerful effect in my life.
You wrote a few posts ago:
Although some great Christian meditation teachers claim it really doesn't matter what 'mantra' we use in meditation, I do believe that the name 'Jesus' has a lot of power. When the disciples worked miracles they always said 'In the Name of Jesus be healed'. If that name did not have power, the disciples would not have found it necessary to use the Name of Jesus each time.
In the time of the original church (i.e., group of believers) the name of Christ alone was enough to empower them to perform apostolic ministry (there is a specific description of an apostle as very "power" oriented Christian). Yet, we use the name Jesus, spelled and pronounced that way. I may be getting into semantics, but, from my own experience, the original Hebrew name of Jesus, Yahshua, I've found significantly different results from my prayer life.

Also, with regards to the area of kundalini and the holy spirit, the supernatural is a very clear, verbal line to draw the difference between the action of the Holy Spirit and the natural workings of the Kundalini energies. In practical, spiritual warfare, however, the lines are much harder to see.

Linda wrote later,

I have to say that I had incredibly unimpleasant aftereffects after using certain mantras that had been recommended to me - another reason I decided to follow CHristianity exclusively.

From a linguistic/theological point of view, every word does contain within a certain spiritual power. Christ was the logos, the word of God. To repeat various words, whatever they are, focuses one's mind on that immaterial concept or mental reality. I agree with Linda, especially when I consider that every Christian truth has a similar falsehood to parallel it. Besdies, the epistles are almost explicitly clear when it comes to the importance of staying within the faith Christ has established through his death and resurrection.

Another thought about balancing energies is to have people you trust and feel confident are balanced, undestanding Christians pray by laying of hands. In every instance where Jesus healed someone and prayed for them, he physically touched them. A big point to take note of when try to balance one's self out. Others can help tremendously.
Posted by linda (Member # 25) on 06-18-2002, 10:48 AM:

Phil, thanks for attempting to put a positive spin on what has been a hellish journey! It's been 8 years to the month since that ball of fire shot up from the base of my spin and completely put my life in turmoil. I still suffer daily physical discomfort, though certainly not some of the burning pain of the past, and occasional psychological and psychic discomfort and have had to completely change my life - both geographically and professionally. I found it impossible to continue living in New YOrk City, even after I became more balanced, for one thing. I crave quiet and nature, and can't be around any hustle-bustle for an extended period of time, or actually the darker energies bred of hatred and ambition in such a dense metropolitan area. (Not that there isn't plenty of love and positive energies, but I seem to still be too aware of the dark stuff.)

Will and others, in response to mantras versus Christian prayer. I combed the bible during a recent retreat at a convent, inadvertantly through the passages given to me from my spiritual director, looking for references to fire and the Holy Spirit, as a potential insight into kundalini and purification. My conclusion, in every passage, the fire never destroys or consumes, but purifies. I.e. the burning bush in Exodus, it was blazing, but wasn't consumed and certainly didn't consume Moses. (then again, I guess he had the "kundalini express" experience on that mountain.)But also say, in Acts, references in Isaiah, the holy spirit is a fire that doesn't destroy.

I realized my kundalini awakening, which had happened after I was exposed to the siddha energies of an Eastern mystic, was not of the Holy Spirit, because it was so destructive in nature. In fact, there's plenty of accounts in the professional Journal of Transformational Psychology of people who have received shaktiput and had kundalini awakenings that ended up in mental institutions for awhile. My awakening was so disruptive to my well being that I could have ended there as well if I hadn't had some wise counsel.

Consequently, the mantras and processes recommended in other traditions, I conclude, don't necessarily have any tie-in at all with the Holy Spirit. They are ways to manage denser, and can I be political incorrect and say, yes, perhaps demonic forces at play. Of course, I believe the Holy Spirit present in other paths, since there are many paths to God and other traditions may, as a Christian evangelist who has preached in many third world countries told me, "be of Jesus, but not know him." THat was his guidance in dealing, for example, with what he regarded as a holy Buddhist crowd he recently conducted a healing service for.

For those of you like Phil, I believe, who have had a kundalini experience and have only followed the Christian tradition, I have no understanding, since that wasn't how it happened to me. I can't say that I've met many charisamatics, despite even their ability to transmit lightening bolt type energy through their hands, who have had a real kundalini awakening, in the sense that they have pranic energy and awareness of anything beyond their 3-dimensional energy body. Certain eastern paths describe various levels of a kudanlini awakening. THe typical charismatic experience of feeling an electrical tingling through the body via the Holy Spirit is not a true kundalini awakening. In fact, its most likely a very balanced experience of the Holy SPirit gently moving through the physical and subtle energy bodies guarded by the seals over the chakras. Those seals have been proven in studies in energy management and are there to keep order in the mind/body/spirit system. Psychological, physcial and emotional problems and even genetics can damange those seals, which is why we've all witnessed the more negative aspects of the charmastic Christians - emotionalism, heightened sexuality, dominant personalities, etc. But this doens't mean they've had an actual kudanlini awakening. It depends on how far the energy has moved up their central channel and where it gets stuck. I would suggest that Benny Hinn, for example, has had a rising only as far to his third eye, at most. I watched him at one of his healing servcies more than once and there's so much psychic energy that runs through him and to the crowd. If if his crown chakra, or connection to God, were as open as he seems to want it to be, I don't think he would be able to physically handle the kind of electrical jolt true divine healing to such huge crowds would entail.

I talked about this with a priest who indeed has that kind of healing gift and only ministers one-on-one and to very small gatherings. His body shifts in reaction to the divine energy and he is truly healing people. But he also had a near death experience, which research has shown has a direct link to a kundalini awakening, and other energy experiences that suggest his body mind and spirit went through a complete transformation to carry God's holy energy. I
m not saying that the likes of a Benny Hinn isn't holy. He's just holy to a certain level and I don't think his healing charisma is linked to a full kundalini awakening.

Would love to hear any feedback on these thoughts.
Posted by Phil (Member # 1) on 06-19-2002, 10:18 AM:

Will and Linda, I have nothing but "Amens" to say in reply to your posts. Yes, the word is a powerful transmitter of energy, and a formative influence unto its integration. As you probably know, the Sanskrit language is a deliberate attempt to use sound to awaken and balance energy. One could probably do an interesting study to see how it and other languages have influenced psycho-spiritual development. The vowel-happy language of the Hawaiians in a case in point; I wonder how this affected their attitudes? Then there's the K-happy germanic languages. Etc.

Linda, once again you share a lot of wisdom concerning the relationship between the Holy Spirit, Kundalini, seals on chakras, and so forth. I do believe the Holy Spirit can vibrate the higher dimensions of our being without what we're calling a full-blown kundalini awakening taking place. Perhaps there are arousals, at times, like maybe in incidents of "slaying in the Spirit," but it seems that the lawfulness of being in most people experiencing this influences the energy to become dense again and the chakras be sealed.

Where I see a closer correspondence betweeh kundalini awakening and the Holy Spirit is in the contemplative traditions in Christianity. Without in any way discounting the influence of loving grace to draw one to rest, it's become my conviction that the deeper states of rest beyond words and images--the apophatic states, if you will--signal an opening of the third eye and even the crown. Awakening to the witness/true self/subject of attention happens for Christian contemplatives, but because we come to this place in the context of the formative influence of Christian faith, it is not a question of awakening to our divinity, but to a higher realm of the soul in its life in Christ. I could go on, but have already covered this to some extent in other threads.

Suffice it to say that most Christian charismatics, while certainly being open to the Spirit and manifesting an abundance of spiritual gifts and fruits, do not manifest many of the fruits of contemplative spirituality. I don't know Benny Hinn, but from what I've seen of him on T.V., I would say that applies to him as well as the EWTN gang and other high profile Catholic teachers on the life in the Spirit. This is not a deficiency on their part, of course, until they start throwing stones at Christian contemplatives who have another kind of witness and ministry in the Church.
Posted by Stephen (Member # 183) on 06-19-2002, 12:54 PM:

The recent psychic disturbances in my life developed, as I said earlier, after a laying on of hands/slain in the Spirit type thing. The charismatic healer claimed to be using the energy of the Holy Spirit. As I said, this experience re-opened the channels to a non-Christian spiritual healer whose energies have become a satanic force in my life. On occasion, during or after an attack from the latter , the energy from the former had manifested itself in defence. I felt a bit like the ravaged turf of some 18th century battlefield(or, for that matter Soldierfield after a visit from the Redskins or whatever.)

The point is , the energy from the Christian healer is no longer manifesting itself, leaving me alone with old satanic britches and Jesus himself. This all leaves me thinking that the Charismatic energy is pranic and that these blokes like Benny Hinn are deluding themselves - thinking they are working with the Holy Spirit. Indeed one manifestation of this energy in my life recently brought a clairaudient hearing of a mass, intense glossalalia session into my consciousness. If this was the Holy Spirit, surely I would have been delivered. But still - old Satanic britches, me and Jesus. The Holy Spirit is more subtle than the subtlest subtle energy, less of a showman.

So in accordance with priya and Linda's advice, I have taken a more quiet, meditative approach. I surround my aura with Christ , I focus on Him in my heart and 3rd eye , I put on the armour of God etc. Old sat. brits. is still there but he is a bit quieter. He makes me feel more wobbly than worn out.

But then, suddenly - the return of old SB. And this, my friends, is how it happened ...

I was surrounding my aura with Christ when I stumbled upon the Auric loop being used to get me, get me , get me(imitation of the auric loop there).
I felt another personality getting upset as I focused on the loop but, instead of passing it by and asking Christ to bind it, I tried filling it with Christ's love. Silly!! Crash, bang,pow . I took a bit of a pounding that night(actually it was last night). So, we shall see what we shall see.

I apologise for my post being a bit of an autobiographical narrative instead of the metaphysical discussion you guys are engaging in. Perhaps I'll be able to join in once things simmer down a tad. Keep at it . By the way Linda, its my anniversary aswell soon - 7 years since the rocket was launched.

Go with Gad, y'all.
Posted by linda (Member # 25) on 06-19-2002, 02:38 PM:

Stephen,

Feel for you re your experience last night I assume you long ago took the first steps after your kundalini went off years ago - i.e. medical diagnosis to make sure what you're dealing with is spiritual, indeed, and not a form of psychosis or physical that could be treated via traditional medication.) If so, then you're really surfing the lower astral planes in your subtle energy bodies and during those kinds of disturbances, all you can do is detach as much as possible, and pray for protection and guidance about letting go, letting God, and hoping that you'll get some insight into what will make it dissipate. The bad news is it could take years more. At the one and only Kundalini Research Network conference I ever attended (and met Phil, by the way, my first year into my own kundalini nightmare) I remember sitting in a small group discussion, about 30 people, talking about symptoms, episodes like the one you described, etc, and heard from people who had been experiencing some of these things off and on, and even steadily for over ten years. And there didn't seem to be more information around to help - I, for one, didn't find the particular experts that the KRN offered up at that time of much value and several, were in fact, pretty damaging in their advice.

I think displacement is probably the best way to go when you're dealing with such times - i.e. put on the holy music and meditate to shift your consciousness or go out and do something grounding (I think chopping down a tree at some of those points for me would have been the best recourse, if I'd been around the woods.) At times, I'd take mud baths, no kidding, to lower my energy or going swimming if an indoor pool wsa open since I was in the city. (Go and try to find a bottle mud in a NYC drugstore and see how much you have to pay. (Sedona mud cost as much as the imported stuff, I found). Anyway, hang in there.

Phil adn Stephen, re the slain in the spirit phenomena. That actually happened to me about two years ago - when to see Father D'Orio, a famous Catholic healing priest in Sturbridge, Mass. who conducts a healing mass that takes more than 5 hours. He's amazing, and hundreds turn up monthly. Anyway, I wanted to be in that healing energy and he also blesses and annoints individually after the service (we're talking hours here given the number of people). There's realy no time to talk to him, though some people whisper in his ear, but I stood there, saying nothing, just bent my head as he prayed over me, annointed me, and I turned to walk away and suddenly my knees gave out.

I don't remember feeling any kind of stirring at all in my body or higher chakras, as I might have expected, via the kundalini and didn't even feel like the kind of lightening bolt type energy I've experienced through some other Christian charismatics. It was a higher frequency than anything I'd experienced before and brought me into complete peace, at least for awhile, after about an hour of driving back into NYC, but certainly didn't result in a cure-all for my kundalini problems. Wish it had.

Also, I appreciate your insight re contemplative spirituality versus the more dramatic emotionalism of the charimatics I've observed.
Posted by priya (Member # 121) on 06-19-2002, 05:32 PM:

My post no. 40 on 14/6 at 6AM:

WillSteele: Your reply on 17/6,10.35PM:

'I may be getting into semantics, but from my own experience, the original Hebrew name of Jesus, Jahshua, I've found significantly different results from my prayer life.'

What I was referring to, WillSteele, was the idea put forth by several Christian meditation teachers that it really doesn't matter whether one uses the word Love, God, Peace etc. as mantra in meditation. John Main recommends the mantra 'Maranatha'. My point was that when we use the Name of Jesus as our mantra, it is not just a word to still the mind, it is a Person we are then referring to, the Person who claimed that all power in Heaven and on Earth has been given to Him by God.

I personally feel it doesn't matter whether we say the name of Jesus in English, Hebrew or Aramaic (the language Jesus actually spoke), as long as we MEAN the same Person, that is Jesus. However in meditation it helps to use the form that ends with a vowel rather than a consonant as it is then easier to coordinate the mantra with the breathing, that's all. For example one can even choose from Yeshu/Jesu too. Surrender to Jesus and send out darts of longing love to the person of Jesus/Yeshu/Jesu/Yahshua, that is the main thing. The pronunciation of the Name is a non-essential as God and Jesus know exactly WHO we mean.
Posted by priya (Member # 121) on 06-19-2002, 06:57 PM:

Linda, Stephen,

In my post on 14/6 at 6 AM, I wrote: Everyone may have as many sexual feelings as they like...'

Linda referred to 'heightened sexuality' in her post on 15/6, 10.40AM.

I want to make sure that I did not convey the impression that sexual obsession at a mental level was alright as long as one didn't give physical expression to it.

I have sometimes wondered why in the short TEN COMMANDMENTS (Exodus 20: 1-17), which summed up all the moral teaching, Commandment VII says 'Do not commit adultery' and Commandment X gives a variation on the same theme: 'Do not COVET your neighbour's wife'. To me Commandment VII refers to the action and Commandment X refers to the lustful thought that precedes the act of adultery. After all, the sin of adultery first begins as a thought. Jesus refers to it in the Sermon on the Mount (Mathew 5:27-30): 'But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart....'

What I was specifically referring to in that context was sexual thoughts coming up during meditation. It is only when we shut out the distractions of the outside world, seeking God in stillnes and silence, that we even become aware of the rich world of distractions that we have in our own minds. Sometimes we are exposed to horror movies on the screen of our minds, sometimes the mind chooses hard-core porno to keep us entertained. Sometimes the movie is on lofty themes or UFOs or celestial beings. The point to remember here however is that they are ALL just movies that serve only as distractions.

So when an adulterous/soft or hard-core porno/edifying love themes are being played out, remember to pull out the plug of the mental movie screen by ignoring it and returning to the mantra - calling out the Name of Jesus faithfully, lovingly with longing. Pray specifically for help if the going gets real tough.

I repeat, in dealing with lustful thoughts that surface against our will : Don't try to fight them because then one gets caught up in the struggle and all attention gets focussed on the struggle. The only way is to ignore them and keep on saying the mantra, calling out the Name of Jesus, faithfully, with love and longing, praying specifically for help if need be. Let the birds of lust fly over your head but don't let them build nests in your hair. Let them pass by your door, but don't go out and engage them in treacherous dialogue or invite them in to tea. Let them pass like clouds, be the mountain (never mind if the mountain gives the impression of shaking and trembling under the impact of the clouds).

Two great Christian meditation masters had this to say about INDULGING in sexual fantasies during meditation/prayer:

Don't waste your precious time during meditation/prayer entertaining yourself with a porno movie.

Don't make 'Scheisse' on your seat during the sacred time of meditation/prayer because that is what sexual fantasies/ sexual release outside a loving committed relationship is all about. When one lives out sexuality as a kind of release, then one is simply using another human being as a toilet.

Now a slight variation on the same topic:

There is another thing that I have been wondering about. The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount refers specifically to the sin of adultery. There is also the instance of the woman caught in adultery and sentenced to death by stoning. So there is no doubt to me that the sin of adultery is considered very serious. But how come other sexual sins have not been specifically mentioned by Jesus or did He sum it all up by saying that an inappropriate thought was as serious as the inappropriate act itself? In the parable about the Samaritan woman by the well, who was living in an out of wed-lock situation with a man, I'm not clear about how exactly Jesus interpreted it. He did not say as He did to the adulterous woman 'Go and sin no more'. He simply made an observation that she was living with a man who was not her husband.

I'd like to emphasise that both Jesus and Paul lived in a time when on the one hand the cultural and social norms did not allow free social mixing among males and females but on the other, both sexes, especially the females were given in marriage as soon as she reached puberty. But in this age we are faced with a situation where on the one hand there is free mixing of the members of either sex and on the other hand the gap between attaining puberty and marriage has increased. One must keep that giant difference in mind while telling youngsters to remain chaste and pure into their thirties when the majority are actually ready for marriage.

With pedophilia, sexual addiction, homosexuality etc. being variations on the theme of 'heightened sexuality', a more detailed discussion on healthy sexuality would be appropriate. I'll leave it to others to initiate that discussion.
Posted by priya (Member # 121) on 06-19-2002, 07:06 PM:

Something has gone wrong about the post number and date I quoted in my above replies. When I looked them up before writing my replies, it said post 40, and the date was June 14. Now it is showing something else! Please note: I'm referring to comments I wrote on this